Vexing Shusher frequently makes my red or green lists. I'm using to playing "bait spells" to draw out counterspells, so the shusher is just insane to me.
If Rule 4 was revoked, I wonder if hybrid existing as R&D intended is in the wings.
I'm going to guess not.
Allowing hybrid mana requires adding additional rules in the Colour Identity rules and understanding why the rule exists requires understanding some fairly arcane design intentions. Adding new rules is harder to justify than taking away existing rules especially when from a mechanical point of view, people that want hybrid cards allowed more freely have no leg to stand one. A card like Waves of Aggression is always a red and white spell in every zone and even on the stack, just like a gold card. From another point of view, the fact that you could cast Waves of Aggression with only red mana is about as relevant as trying to cast a white creature with a red activated ability that you claim you don't want to use.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
That said, if we include Phyrexian mana, I can think of a few decks that could use Dismember or (more for deck-thinning than anything) Gitaxian Probe. Beyond that, I'm thinking mostly hate cards like Dovescape in Animar and suddenly having access to Dryad Militant and Vexing Shusher is nice.
Private Mod Note
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I have never seen anything to suggest that. I don't think it would be an official format and wouldn't have a WotC employee on the RC if that were remotely true. He dislikes the way they define Color Identity, but that's a healthy difference of opinion due to MaRo's love of hybrid as 'OR'.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
we've been allowing off-colour hybrids for ages actually, and it works with our playgroup. but thats the thing; it works with the playgroup here. we decided that thematically, since hybrids are thematically casted as a 'or' colour-wise, there should be no reason why a general who is one of the colours can't cast it.
we know that mechanically, the spell has both colours, like gold cards, but we at least like the idea of differentiating different kinds of cards. anyways, it works in our meta.
in response to the original question though, kulrath knight in any deck that can support it. i think the only copy i have is in my skeleton ship build.
Extort and seem to have been designed just to troll Commander players. In fact, I'm pretty sure he outright said extort was to troll the RC once.
@schweinefett: Why didn't I think of Kulrath Knight in Ghave and Marath too?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Expressing an opinion is not being passive-aggressive. In addition, Extort can be used in mono-color unless the rules have changed since the last time this was discussed.
We should also refrain from putting words in MaRo's mouth without a proper citing.
That's hardly a troll. He didn't even template it. Also, you might want to cite one where he doesn't get the rule wrong. (The fact he gets it wrong might also be a hint about how much time he actually spends thinking about this.)
Ironically, if that was his master plan, it backfired rather badly, since the only possibility we've discussed is tweaking the rules so that Extort can only appear in B/W decks.
Ironically, if that was his master plan, it backfired rather badly, since the only possibility we've discussed is tweaking the rules so that Extort can only appear in B/W decks.
Please don't take Crypt Ghast away from us. It's a black card that just happens to have half a W in its reminder text. Extort is fine as a black mechanic. It only feels off flavor without black.
Ironically, if that was his master plan, it backfired rather badly, since the only possibility we've discussed is tweaking the rules so that Extort can only appear in B/W decks.
Please don't take Crypt Ghast away from us. It's a black card that just happens to have half a W in its reminder text. Extort is fine as a black mechanic. It only feels off flavor without black.
Agreed, also because Blind Obedience is amazing in anything white.
Spitting Image - In Nissa and probably Blue Braids.
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
Azusa, Lost but Seeking loves Spitting Image, Biomantic Mastery, and the occasional Overbeing of Myth if I'm running all my Multani, Maro-Sorceror variants.
Feldon of the Third Path plays Pit Fight
Jalira, Master Polymorphist and a few other mono blue generals appreciate the addition of Murkfiend Liege
Debtor's Knell can go in white/x decks like my reanimator Selvala, Explorer Returned build
Vexing Shusher frequently makes my red or green lists. I'm using to playing "bait spells" to draw out counterspells, so the shusher is just insane to me.
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
If Rule 4 was revoked, I wonder if hybrid existing as R&D intended is in the wings.
I'm going to guess not.
Allowing hybrid mana requires adding additional rules in the Colour Identity rules and understanding why the rule exists requires understanding some fairly arcane design intentions. Adding new rules is harder to justify than taking away existing rules especially when from a mechanical point of view, people that want hybrid cards allowed more freely have no leg to stand one. A card like Waves of Aggression is always a red and white spell in every zone and even on the stack, just like a gold card. From another point of view, the fact that you could cast Waves of Aggression with only red mana is about as relevant as trying to cast a white creature with a red activated ability that you claim you don't want to use.
Norin the Wary (Gaka build) wants Vexing Shusher, like, REALLY BAD.
They would prefer you didnt play off color fetchs (as would I), but they have not come up with a clean rule to do so.
Don't hold your breath on hybrid.
Does it matter that Maro hates the RC?
Anyway, I actually agree. Changing the rules for hybrid would make for messier rules with Oona, Queen of the Fae, Wort, the Raidmother, Rhys the Redeemed, Reaper King, Sapling of Colfenor, Rosheen Meanderer, Sygg, River Cutthroat, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Yasova Dragonclaw, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and (more for completionism than any actual experience with anyone using him) Daghatar the Adamant.
That said, if we include Phyrexian mana, I can think of a few decks that could use Dismember or (more for deck-thinning than anything) Gitaxian Probe. Beyond that, I'm thinking mostly hate cards like Dovescape in Animar and suddenly having access to Dryad Militant and Vexing Shusher is nice.
On phasing:
we know that mechanically, the spell has both colours, like gold cards, but we at least like the idea of differentiating different kinds of cards. anyways, it works in our meta.
in response to the original question though, kulrath knight in any deck that can support it. i think the only copy i have is in my skeleton ship build.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Extort and seem to have been designed just to troll Commander players. In fact, I'm pretty sure he outright said extort was to troll the RC once.
@schweinefett: Why didn't I think of Kulrath Knight in Ghave and Marath too?
On phasing:
He does? Huh, he does a really good job of hiding it whenever we see each other.
Must be tough having to hate everyone who has a mild difference of opinion on something.
Seriously? Where do people get this stuff?
On phasing:
Expressing an opinion is not being passive-aggressive. In addition, Extort can be used in mono-color unless the rules have changed since the last time this was discussed.
We should also refrain from putting words in MaRo's mouth without a proper citing.
That's hardly a troll. He didn't even template it. Also, you might want to cite one where he doesn't get the rule wrong. (The fact he gets it wrong might also be a hint about how much time he actually spends thinking about this.)
Ironically, if that was his master plan, it backfired rather badly, since the only possibility we've discussed is tweaking the rules so that Extort can only appear in B/W decks.
Please don't take Crypt Ghast away from us. It's a black card that just happens to have half a W in its reminder text. Extort is fine as a black mechanic. It only feels off flavor without black.
Agreed, also because Blind Obedience is amazing in anything white.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade