Hi guys, I read the primers and watched a few videos on the Sliver Overlord. What led me to play sliver is because I have a TON of slivers at my disposal (I used to have 5 different constructed sliver decks), and I would like to revisit my favourite creatures in this completely unfamiliar format. This will be my first commander deck!
Then I looked at the mana base and nearly fainted. Dual lands!? Gaea's Cradle? Just one of those cards exceeds my entire deck budget. I was wondering whether you guys could help me come up with a stable manabase to use for my Sliver deck. Here are the "decent" lands I already have
I am willing to drop a bit of money to fix this, but I'm not looking to spend more than $30 per card and no more than $200 in total for this deck. I'm open to suggestions, thanks!
Sell your horizon canopy and get 4-6 shocklands for the money, I'd say. Well, preferrably get all the shocks, but you get my point.
The shocks are so versitile and strong but relatively cheap compared to the ABUR duals. They also give you great flexibility in combination with cards such as Skyshroud Claim.
I have a budget Sliver Hivelord deck, and I use no shocks or original dual lands for the mana base.
In the deck I have a set of the 10 pain lands, a set of the 10 guild gates (plus a maze's end), a set of the 10 tri-colored tap lands, and 10 any color lands like Mana Confluence (they were all ones that cost under $5 each). Around half of the lands come into play tapped, but it works fine in a mildly casual environment. If I have at least one that doesn't come into play tapped in my opening hand and I use it to cast a mana rock on turn 3, it helps a lot also. I guess it depends on how cut throat your group is. But your mana does not have to cost hundreds of dollars to function.
As you can tell this is WAY more than you need as your mana base should be 35-40 (depending on mana rocks) lands in 5 color.
You can also use Basics in extreme cases as you access to land searching in 5 color.
The problem with running all of several cycles is that decks are rarely equally divided between colors. Build your deck first and figure out the ratios of the different colors. Focus on getting nonbasics that tap for at least one of your main colors. tappedout is great for figuring out how well your mana source line up with the color requirements of your deck. You don't need duals and shocks and fetches. I'd argue a few basics are important as well, as you can run cards like Cultivate to ramp and ensure you hit your colors, although those are obviously better in green-heavy decks.
Shocks are the bes bang for your buck in terms of duals. They can come in untapped if you need them to and have the basic land types. You can fetch them with stuff like Krosan Verge, Farseek, and Skyshroud Claim. You can also find them with fetches or the slower mirage fetches.
There are several cheap cycles of nonbasics that could work well for you:
Pain lands (Llanowar Wastes): $1-$2 each I think, come in untapped, and get 2 colors. There are both enemy and allied lands.
BFZ tango lands (Cinder Glade): cheaper than shocks but less likely to enter untapped in 5 color. The basic types are great for the same reasons as the shocks. If you don't get shocks it might be worth running the forest and plains tango lands just for Krosan Verge as you can get 4 colors off that 1 land. Unfortunately there are only allied colors.
Vivid lands (Vivid Grove): come in tapped but get mana of any color twice which is usually enough to get you going.
Check lands (Rootbound Crag): can come in untapped if you have a basic type land. Really strong if you can consistently get them in untapped. Allied colors are cheap, enemy colors are less cheap. If you're heavier in certain colors and have enough of that basic type, it might be worth picking up a few in the colors you think you can reliably have untapped.
3 color tapped lands from alara and khans: cheap for most of them and get you 3 colors, but always come in tapped.
Tainted lands (Tainted Isle): are cheap and great if you're heavy in black and can reliably turn them on. Most sliver decks aren't deep into black though.
Too many lands coming in tapped puts you behind everyone else by a turn basically. Too many complete cycles weakens the deck by unbalancing your manabase although it feel nice and neat when looking at a decklist.
Cabal Coffers is a massive no no. It takes four swamps to profit off of its activation. Since you're five colors, you'll likely not have many swamps. That would lead you to rely on Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to profit. Urborg is fine because it fixes black for you, but unless you plan to run a ton of non-basic land search, leave the Coffers out.
You can run straight basics weighted towards green and heavy ramp, too. The pricey manabases are more consistent when it comes to hitting your colors, but they're not essential.
I would skip shocks unless you also have fetches. The upside to them is that they come in untapped more reliably than some other duals and power up a few ramp spells. The downside is that they eat a lot of your budget. You can make something consistent for a lot cheaper.
The new BFZ duals can fill a similar role, but play much more nicely with basics.
I would probably run something like 40 lands including 20 basics, with 10 of those being forests. Add in some number of painlands, BFZ duals, and five color lands like Command Tower, Mana Confluence, and City of Brass. Run a bunch of ramp spells, like Rampant Growth and friends. Add a few of the more flexible mana rocks, like Commander's Sphere, Darksteel Ingot, and Coldsteel Heart. Add some more color specific mana rocks in the colors you want most, probably green for ramp and a couple of the other colors that you're heavy on. Add a couple of creature tutors like Green Sun's Zenith and Chord of Calling so you can find Gemhide Sliver or Manaweft Sliver. You want your ramp to produce whatever colors you want at the time, and you still want to avoid having too many cipt lands (I would try and keep it under 10-12 to start, then add in other duals if you're still having trouble hitting your colors). Most EDH decks want to ramp anyways, so you might as well take advantage of it while you fix your colors. You'll have some games where you end up color screwed, but it will probably work more often than not.
Last note, don't feel like you have to have everything from a particular cycle. The signets are excellent mana rocks, but you can run just the ones that have more relevant colors for your deck to save space. Same for dual lands. Look at the costs and colors you actually need to hit, and build your manabase around that.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I'd recommend playing a 2 or 3 color deck. I know you have your heart on slivers, but I've seen more than one new person to EDH decide 5 color, have a bad time playing it, and then go on to think EDH isn't fun. The more colors in a deck, the more staples you should probably run, meaning less fun unique cards. The other problem is if you don't invest heavily on your mana base you'll end up always playing a turn behind.
The point of EDH is to have fun and play exciting decks. I'd just like to recommend you save a 5c deck for your 3rd 4th or even 5th deck you decide to try.
I'd recommend playing a 2 or 3 color deck. I know you have your heart on slivers, but I've seen more than one new person to EDH decide 5 color, have a bad time playing it, and then go on to think EDH isn't fun. The more colors in a deck, the more staples you should probably run, meaning less fun unique cards. The other problem is if you don't invest heavily on your mana base you'll end up always playing a turn behind.
The point of EDH is to have fun and play exciting decks. I'd just like to recommend you save a 5c deck for your 3rd 4th or even 5th deck you decide to try.
Depends n what you consider exciting, my first ever EDH deck was Slivers. I won a lot with it too and this was before i had a sol ring. I did have 6 of teh duel which i bought off my friend (He was selling 2000 cards for 200 bucks. I managed to get the 6 most expensive duels form that set. That alone was more than what i spent on it and there were a bunch more good rare cards in there) so yea i had some nice lands but even without those i was doing well in terms of mana.
5-color, while tough to enjoy can still be very enjoyable. Just expect other player to hate your for paying slivers. The auto-pilot deck will be Auto-target.
For a first ever EDH/Commander deck I would stay away from 5 Color, the mana base can be frustrating even when you spend a fair amount.
Additionally I would stay away from Slivers, because people will tend to overeact to Slivers, because they have so much combo potential - basically you either end up with very little board position or you win by comboing out. Assuming your an average player, playing at 4 player tables giving you a win percentage of 25% of the time, then your going to be staring down rather useless boards 75% of the time.l
My first suggestion to anyone building Slivers in EDH is that they should try to focus on 3 colors and treat the other 2 colors as a splash. Making one of those 3 main colors Green can also go a long way toward simplifying the mana. By just doing those 2 things, you can save 100s on your mana, and you can take your time improving your mana options.
The other piece of advice I give is that people should think about whether they want to go the with the aggro plan, the combo plan, or the control plan. This will affect which slivers make sense and therefore what colors to focus on.
They're not the best, but they're even cheaper than painlands, and there's no tempo loss.
Five-color decks can be expensive. Just make sure to include something so you don't die to Blood Moon.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Wow, I did NOT expect to get so many helpful replies. This is amazing, thanks!
gethinsite: Just checked out manabase crater. Amazing stuff, thanks!
Daban: great idea, though finding a buyer is tough around here =/
Underhill83: Took a look at the sliver queen deck. I will take lots of ideas from that mana base
jarrusatula: Thanks! Never heard of that card before
Rzepkanut: Thanks, my meta isn't too bad. All casual players (with one guy printing crazy proxies)
Gashnaw: Thanks for the list! And 6 dual lands plus 2000 other cards for $200!? That is like winning the jackpot!
Hakim: Yes, perfect idea. I am going to come up with a decklist today, minus the lands, and then see where to go from there! Thanks for the land suggestions as well.
CrazedMogwai: Ah yes, I have gotten too used to cabal coffers in my mono B deck I forgot it sucks elsewhere. I will certainly run Gemhide sliver and Manaweft Sliver
Weebo: Yea, I am leaning towards green-heavy mana ramp as you suggested
Naethyn: Thanks! I will test using MTG Forge to see how it runs and how I enjoy it before buying the cards.
Incanur: Great list, wrote them down, thanks!
Beralt: I don't actually play 4 player very often. A lot of time it is 1v1 or free for all with 3 players. I'll keep the overlord as my general, but I may focus more heavily on 3 colors. Thanks!
Forgotten One: Tempted to "forget" to reply to you just for laughs. That is my plan! I will likely do white, red, green as focus, and splash blue with a tiny bit of black.
hyalapterouslemur: ~$50, now we're talking! Thanks for checking the prices on all of those!
Gashnaw: Thanks for the list! And 6 dual lands plus 2000 other cards for $200!? That is like winning the jackpot!
Yea, i even asked if he wanted those cards back giv how much they were worth, he said no. to him they were cardboard, to me they were good cards.
The rest of the cards As i said had some value, but there were also a bunch of commons uncommons an 10 cent rares.
If you had 5 sliver decks then you probably have all the cards you need minus the lands. If you are looking to spend no more than $200 for this deck then maybe you should consider trying to get the shocklands. There are 10 of them and if you go to certain auction sites you can usually get good deals on multiples of them. I recently got 3 Breeding Pool for $20. Now I know that collecting all 10 can mean that you spend that $200 instantly but not quite. I could take the 2 extra Breeding Pool and trade them for 2 other painlands, then BAM! you have 3 different painlands for $20 and you are 1/3 of the way there. So feasibly you could get a single set of painlands for $100 and less if you go this route. It will just take time. BTW they are the best, easiest, and cheapest dual land
If you are tempted to play black in the sliver deck there are the tainted lands like tainted peak. They are very cheap and easy to find.
Then I looked at the mana base and nearly fainted. Dual lands!? Gaea's Cradle? Just one of those cards exceeds my entire deck budget. I was wondering whether you guys could help me come up with a stable manabase to use for my Sliver deck. Here are the "decent" lands I already have
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Sliver Hive
1 Rupture Spire
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
Green White
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Brushland
1 Canopy Vista
Blue Black
1 Polluted Delta
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Prairie Stream
Black Red
1 Smoldering Marsh
Black Green
1 Llanowar Wastes
I am willing to drop a bit of money to fix this, but I'm not looking to spend more than $30 per card and no more than $200 in total for this deck. I'm open to suggestions, thanks!
Bang for buck though, I'd start there.
Have you seen Manabase Crafter?
Its a site that can help you with your commander manabases.
Overall my advice is try four as much stuff as possible that enters the battlefield untapped, if possible.
The shocks are so versitile and strong but relatively cheap compared to the ABUR duals. They also give you great flexibility in combination with cards such as Skyshroud Claim.
In the deck I have a set of the 10 pain lands, a set of the 10 guild gates (plus a maze's end), a set of the 10 tri-colored tap lands, and 10 any color lands like Mana Confluence (they were all ones that cost under $5 each). Around half of the lands come into play tapped, but it works fine in a mildly casual environment. If I have at least one that doesn't come into play tapped in my opening hand and I use it to cast a mana rock on turn 3, it helps a lot also. I guess it depends on how cut throat your group is. But your mana does not have to cost hundreds of dollars to function.
-Shock lands (like Steam vents)
-Filter lands (Like Cascade Bluffs)
-Fetch lands (Like Scalding Tarn)
-Check Lands (Like Sulfur Falls)
-Command Tower
-Reflecting pool
-Exotic Orchard
-Gemstone Mine
-The Vivids (Like Vivid Marsh)
As you can tell this is WAY more than you need as your mana base should be 35-40 (depending on mana rocks) lands in 5 color.
You can also use Basics in extreme cases as you access to land searching in 5 color.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Lands you should probably run:
Shocks are the bes bang for your buck in terms of duals. They can come in untapped if you need them to and have the basic land types. You can fetch them with stuff like Krosan Verge, Farseek, and Skyshroud Claim. You can also find them with fetches or the slower mirage fetches.
There are several cheap cycles of nonbasics that could work well for you:
Pain lands (Llanowar Wastes): $1-$2 each I think, come in untapped, and get 2 colors. There are both enemy and allied lands.
BFZ tango lands (Cinder Glade): cheaper than shocks but less likely to enter untapped in 5 color. The basic types are great for the same reasons as the shocks. If you don't get shocks it might be worth running the forest and plains tango lands just for Krosan Verge as you can get 4 colors off that 1 land. Unfortunately there are only allied colors.
Vivid lands (Vivid Grove): come in tapped but get mana of any color twice which is usually enough to get you going.
Check lands (Rootbound Crag): can come in untapped if you have a basic type land. Really strong if you can consistently get them in untapped. Allied colors are cheap, enemy colors are less cheap. If you're heavier in certain colors and have enough of that basic type, it might be worth picking up a few in the colors you think you can reliably have untapped.
3 color tapped lands from alara and khans: cheap for most of them and get you 3 colors, but always come in tapped.
Tainted lands (Tainted Isle): are cheap and great if you're heavy in black and can reliably turn them on. Most sliver decks aren't deep into black though.
Too many lands coming in tapped puts you behind everyone else by a turn basically. Too many complete cycles weakens the deck by unbalancing your manabase although it feel nice and neat when looking at a decklist.
Also Gemhide Sliver.
GMasumaro, First to KillG
......meow
I would skip shocks unless you also have fetches. The upside to them is that they come in untapped more reliably than some other duals and power up a few ramp spells. The downside is that they eat a lot of your budget. You can make something consistent for a lot cheaper.
The new BFZ duals can fill a similar role, but play much more nicely with basics.
I would probably run something like 40 lands including 20 basics, with 10 of those being forests. Add in some number of painlands, BFZ duals, and five color lands like Command Tower, Mana Confluence, and City of Brass. Run a bunch of ramp spells, like Rampant Growth and friends. Add a few of the more flexible mana rocks, like Commander's Sphere, Darksteel Ingot, and Coldsteel Heart. Add some more color specific mana rocks in the colors you want most, probably green for ramp and a couple of the other colors that you're heavy on. Add a couple of creature tutors like Green Sun's Zenith and Chord of Calling so you can find Gemhide Sliver or Manaweft Sliver. You want your ramp to produce whatever colors you want at the time, and you still want to avoid having too many cipt lands (I would try and keep it under 10-12 to start, then add in other duals if you're still having trouble hitting your colors). Most EDH decks want to ramp anyways, so you might as well take advantage of it while you fix your colors. You'll have some games where you end up color screwed, but it will probably work more often than not.
Last note, don't feel like you have to have everything from a particular cycle. The signets are excellent mana rocks, but you can run just the ones that have more relevant colors for your deck to save space. Same for dual lands. Look at the costs and colors you actually need to hit, and build your manabase around that.
The point of EDH is to have fun and play exciting decks. I'd just like to recommend you save a 5c deck for your 3rd 4th or even 5th deck you decide to try.
Depends n what you consider exciting, my first ever EDH deck was Slivers. I won a lot with it too and this was before i had a sol ring. I did have 6 of teh duel which i bought off my friend (He was selling 2000 cards for 200 bucks. I managed to get the 6 most expensive duels form that set. That alone was more than what i spent on it and there were a bunch more good rare cards in there) so yea i had some nice lands but even without those i was doing well in terms of mana.
5-color, while tough to enjoy can still be very enjoyable. Just expect other player to hate your for paying slivers. The auto-pilot deck will be Auto-target.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Additionally I would stay away from Slivers, because people will tend to overeact to Slivers, because they have so much combo potential - basically you either end up with very little board position or you win by comboing out. Assuming your an average player, playing at 4 player tables giving you a win percentage of 25% of the time, then your going to be staring down rather useless boards 75% of the time.l
The other piece of advice I give is that people should think about whether they want to go the with the aggro plan, the combo plan, or the control plan. This will affect which slivers make sense and therefore what colors to focus on.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
By median price, Tenth Edition...
Adarkar Wastes $5.84
Underground River $4.16
Sulfurous Springs $2.95
Karplusan Forest $9.99
Brushland $3.48
Caves of Koilos $2.40
Shivan Reef $3.84
Llanowar Wastes $3.33
Battlefield Forge $3.20
Yavimaya Coast $3.42
=$42.61 altogether!
They're not the best, but they're even cheaper than painlands, and there's no tempo loss.
Five-color decks can be expensive. Just make sure to include something so you don't die to Blood Moon.
On phasing:
gethinsite: Just checked out manabase crater. Amazing stuff, thanks!
Daban: great idea, though finding a buyer is tough around here =/
Underhill83: Took a look at the sliver queen deck. I will take lots of ideas from that mana base
jarrusatula: Thanks! Never heard of that card before
Rzepkanut: Thanks, my meta isn't too bad. All casual players (with one guy printing crazy proxies)
Gashnaw: Thanks for the list! And 6 dual lands plus 2000 other cards for $200!? That is like winning the jackpot!
Hakim: Yes, perfect idea. I am going to come up with a decklist today, minus the lands, and then see where to go from there! Thanks for the land suggestions as well.
CrazedMogwai: Ah yes, I have gotten too used to cabal coffers in my mono B deck I forgot it sucks elsewhere. I will certainly run Gemhide sliver and Manaweft Sliver
Weebo: Yea, I am leaning towards green-heavy mana ramp as you suggested
Naethyn: Thanks! I will test using MTG Forge to see how it runs and how I enjoy it before buying the cards.
Incanur: Great list, wrote them down, thanks!
Beralt: I don't actually play 4 player very often. A lot of time it is 1v1 or free for all with 3 players. I'll keep the overlord as my general, but I may focus more heavily on 3 colors. Thanks!
Forgotten One: Tempted to "forget" to reply to you just for laughs. That is my plan! I will likely do white, red, green as focus, and splash blue with a tiny bit of black.
hyalapterouslemur: ~$50, now we're talking! Thanks for checking the prices on all of those!
Yea, i even asked if he wanted those cards back giv how much they were worth, he said no. to him they were cardboard, to me they were good cards.
The rest of the cards As i said had some value, but there were also a bunch of commons uncommons an 10 cent rares.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
If you are tempted to play black in the sliver deck there are the tainted lands like tainted peak. They are very cheap and easy to find.
BURWGSliver Hivelord's alt wincon deck at Maze's EndBURWG
GWBSidar Kondo and Ikra Shidiq likes big butts
RUMizzix of the Izmagnus Super ThiefRU
BURWGGeneral Tazri, The Megazord AllyBURWG
BURJeleva Mill and Kill BUR
BRGrenzo's get out from under that deck!BR
WUG Roon's Enchanted Evening (enchantment deck) WUG
BUG The Undersea World of Tasigur CousteauBUG
BWGAnafenza, Counter QueenBWG