This unsummon effect is cheap enough and has enough of a cantrip (ie; has a cantrip) to be playable. Probably needs specific builds to work. Aforementioned Melek is amazing.
I think that often getting a 2/2 body into play is going to be better than a cantrip, especially since there are powerful ways to reuse a creature body, so Man-O'-war is the one for me
I know what you meant but would you really play a repulse that gives a 2/2 token creature instead of a card?
If it was an instant that left a 2/2 token I wouldn't play it. (but that would be a broken as hell limited card.)
I still prefer they print really strong stuff to really bad stuff no one wants to play with
Yeah, I mean, I guess I feel the same way, but I wish tehy would put that power on cards that aren't legendary creatures. Like, I feel like their line of reasoning is "The format is about legendary creatures; let's print really powerful legendary creatures to make them happy." When, in reality, the format is predicated on their being a pretty flat power curve among legendary creatures, allowing a large disparity of deckbuilding without wandering too far from the optimum.
I mean I agree to that I think they already do a decent job with printing precons that are playable and not intro pack nonsense even if there's always a couple cards I think are awful
About Repulse I'm gonna pass on 3 mana bounce that's creature only even if it cantrips, if it said permanent or was 2 mana it'd be fine but 3 mana is too much for this, it's a decent filler card though especially since it cantrips
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UG Arixmethes Combo UGR Wanderer UGB Tasigur Control URB Jeleva Storm RW Gisela Control
The creature only limitation is what stops it being a good EDH card for me. There's just too many big threats around that it misses for me to run even with the cantrip. (I'm not against running creature only single target removal by any means, but I want it to be a bit more permanent than just bouncing, e.g. Reality Shift). Into the Roil is a much better option than Repulse if you want bounce that can cantrip.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
And most of those are just for the ETB trigger, usually with a synergy with Sun Titan or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or whatever, so I'm going to sac them anyway. I guess there's Keldon Vandals in Kresh? But "in Kresh" just means I'm going to sac it anyway.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
And most of those are just for the ETB trigger, usually with a synergy with Sun Titan or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or whatever, so I'm going to sac them anyway. I guess there's Keldon Vandals in Kresh? But "in Kresh" just means I'm going to sac it anyway.
AFAIK, Shah's ability should actually trigger regardless of what kind of echo cost it pays, so it's a nonbo there...
EDIT: Or is it just a cost replacement of sorts, it's no longer an echo cost?
And most of those are just for the ETB trigger, usually with a synergy with Sun Titan or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or whatever, so I'm going to sac them anyway. I guess there's Keldon Vandals in Kresh? But "in Kresh" just means I'm going to sac it anyway.
That first part is incorrect, the last ability still triggers because you still paid the echo cost.
And most of those are just for the ETB trigger, usually with a synergy with Sun Titan or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or whatever, so I'm going to sac them anyway. I guess there's Keldon Vandals in Kresh? But "in Kresh" just means I'm going to sac it anyway.
That first part is incorrect, the last ability still triggers because you still paid the echo cost.
Nope. "You may pay 0 Rather Than pay the echo cost..." It functions as a replacement effect, not as a reduced echo cost. Just as if you pay 1 life and exile a blue card to cast FoW, you didn't pay its mana cost, if you pay 0 to thick skinned's replacement effect, you didn't pay the echo cost, and Shah doesn't trigger.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Noteworthy that he survives through Crater Hellion's rage and also keeps you from paying echo. Protection from Red might be the strongest color protection there is; this guy could be noteworthy in any sort of red matchup, with how many red cards happen to have 2 toughness. Thick-Skinned Goblin is probably better than most echo cards, however, because the best echo cards don't really care to pay echo anyway.
And most of those are just for the ETB trigger, usually with a synergy with Sun Titan or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or whatever, so I'm going to sac them anyway. I guess there's Keldon Vandals in Kresh? But "in Kresh" just means I'm going to sac it anyway.
That first part is incorrect, the last ability still triggers because you still paid the echo cost.
Nope. "You may pay 0 Rather Than pay the echo cost..." It functions as a replacement effect, not as a reduced echo cost. Just as if you pay 1 life and exile a blue card to cast FoW, you didn't pay its mana cost, if you pay 0 to thick skinned's replacement effect, you didn't pay the echo cost, and Shah doesn't trigger.
"5/1/2007 If you use Thick-Skinned Goblin's ability to pay {0} instead of Shah of Naar Isle's echo cost, the Shah's last ability will trigger." It still happens because it replaces the cost of whatever echo normally is.
Noteworthy that he survives through Crater Hellion's rage and also keeps you from paying echo. Protection from Red might be the strongest color protection there is; this guy could be noteworthy in any sort of red matchup, with how many red cards happen to have 2 toughness. Thick-Skinned Goblin is probably better than most echo cards, however, because the best echo cards don't really care to pay echo anyway.
Actually the most important function of Protection from Red on Red creatures is that they usually survive your own board wipes (well, those that rely on damage, at least). I was actively looking for means to keep my creatures alive (and preferably not roast myself via Repercussion while at it) in my Ryusei deck and while this survives, surviving on its own as a 2/1 wasn't quite enough to make the cut (I remembered vividly wishing that ability said "target creature" instead). Turns out nobody grants it so I had to fall back on the 2 Swords with Red in them and things that grant flying.
And most of those are just for the ETB trigger, usually with a synergy with Sun Titan or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or whatever, so I'm going to sac them anyway. I guess there's Keldon Vandals in Kresh? But "in Kresh" just means I'm going to sac it anyway.
That first part is incorrect, the last ability still triggers because you still paid the echo cost.
Nope. "You may pay 0 Rather Than pay the echo cost..." It functions as a replacement effect, not as a reduced echo cost. Just as if you pay 1 life and exile a blue card to cast FoW, you didn't pay its mana cost, if you pay 0 to thick skinned's replacement effect, you didn't pay the echo cost, and Shah doesn't trigger.
As already stated, this is incorrect. You are still paying an echo cost, which is why Shah does trigger.
One of those odd cards that isn't all that bad. It's a repeatable sac outlet and until quite recently I saw Miren, the Moaning Well get plenty of play. This doesn't require you to dedicate a land drop to it, can save your stuff from exile/theft pretty nicely and shore up your life total. Of course it is still 3 mana each time you want to use it, but as far as repeatable sac outlets go, you could do worse.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Weird color pie. Today, this card would be black or green.
5/10 It's a sac outlet for creatures in a color that doesn't often get those.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I guess it's useful due to being a rare effect in white.
EDIT: Thinking about it, casting this in response to a removal spell would be awesome, but... Yea dunno. I guess it becomes an alright safety valve later in the game. I just have issues seeing how it helps you win (or not lose) compared to other cards.
I like the effect though and thinking about it might just play it anyways.
I use it to go infinite with Myr Turbine and Paradox Engine(with mana rocks, obviously). Its a very niche card, but it can be really powerful and swingy in certain builds.
Now, today's card has many applications, but there are usually better cards for most of them. It can potentially go infinite with the right support, but the biggest thing is that it is a mono white source of repeatable creature sacrifice, and the life gain can be pretty significant. Interestingly enough, it pairs rather well with Seance.
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
If it was an instant that left a 2/2 token I wouldn't play it. (but that would be a broken as hell limited card.)
I mean I agree to that I think they already do a decent job with printing precons that are playable and not intro pack nonsense even if there's always a couple cards I think are awful
About Repulse I'm gonna pass on 3 mana bounce that's creature only even if it cantrips, if it said permanent or was 2 mana it'd be fine but 3 mana is too much for this, it's a decent filler card though especially since it cantrips
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
A staple in Echo.dec, I guess?
May be interesting for pauper commander however (where your commander is an uncommon).
... Oh right, red color identity.
Man I dunno.
Fetchable with Imperial Recruiter?
EDIT: Def hidden gem for ordinary casual though.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
And the ironic part is that you usually never want to pay the echo cost anyways, as it's a free way to get it in the GY.
Echo permanents I might consider playing...
Avalanche Riders
Bone Shredder
Deranged Hermit
Extruder
Goblin Marshal
Karmic Guide
Mogg War Marshal
Ring of Gix
Timbermare
Volcano Hellion
And most of those are just for the ETB trigger, usually with a synergy with Sun Titan or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or whatever, so I'm going to sac them anyway. I guess there's Keldon Vandals in Kresh? But "in Kresh" just means I'm going to sac it anyway.
On phasing:
AFAIK, Shah's ability should actually trigger regardless of what kind of echo cost it pays, so it's a nonbo there...
EDIT: Or is it just a cost replacement of sorts, it's no longer an echo cost?
I love that this card references Keeper of Kookus on different levels.
That first part is incorrect, the last ability still triggers because you still paid the echo cost.
Nope. "You may pay 0 Rather Than pay the echo cost..." It functions as a replacement effect, not as a reduced echo cost. Just as if you pay 1 life and exile a blue card to cast FoW, you didn't pay its mana cost, if you pay 0 to thick skinned's replacement effect, you didn't pay the echo cost, and Shah doesn't trigger.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Actually the most important function of Protection from Red on Red creatures is that they usually survive your own board wipes (well, those that rely on damage, at least). I was actively looking for means to keep my creatures alive (and preferably not roast myself via Repercussion while at it) in my Ryusei deck and while this survives, surviving on its own as a 2/1 wasn't quite enough to make the cut (I remembered vividly wishing that ability said "target creature" instead). Turns out nobody grants it so I had to fall back on the 2 Swords with Red in them and things that grant flying.
I doubt I'd ever actually use it in a deck, as its potential uses seem pretty darn limited, but I still appreciate knowing it exists.
As already stated, this is incorrect. You are still paying an echo cost, which is why Shah does trigger.
One of those odd cards that isn't all that bad. It's a repeatable sac outlet and until quite recently I saw Miren, the Moaning Well get plenty of play. This doesn't require you to dedicate a land drop to it, can save your stuff from exile/theft pretty nicely and shore up your life total. Of course it is still 3 mana each time you want to use it, but as far as repeatable sac outlets go, you could do worse.
5/10 It's a sac outlet for creatures in a color that doesn't often get those.
On phasing:
I guess it's useful due to being a rare effect in white.
EDIT: Thinking about it, casting this in response to a removal spell would be awesome, but... Yea dunno. I guess it becomes an alright safety valve later in the game. I just have issues seeing how it helps you win (or not lose) compared to other cards.
I like the effect though and thinking about it might just play it anyways.
Now, today's card has many applications, but there are usually better cards for most of them. It can potentially go infinite with the right support, but the biggest thing is that it is a mono white source of repeatable creature sacrifice, and the life gain can be pretty significant. Interestingly enough, it pairs rather well with Seance.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!