Since those decks have access to white, you have two stellar options for single target removal instead...that exile at a cheaper cost and instant speed.
Repercussion shenanigans? It’s not a good card.
This kind of thought is what Stifles creativity and makes Commander stagnant. By your logic here, why play anything else other than Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares? Let's make every deck exactly the same. When I see a card like this, I see a lot of potential other than a card like Swords to Plowshares that plays the game for you. Pay one white to exile, real challenging. Takes alot of deck design and decision making out of the game and makes your personal touches on your deck blandy bland bland. I feel like alot of people are missing the point of Commander when they look at everything in the strictly better sense. If everyone did strictly better, every deck would be exactly the same. No thanks.
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"People are the worst. The worst thing about music is that people play it." - Mike Patton
Since those decks have access to white, you have two stellar options for single target removal instead...that exile at a cheaper cost and instant speed.
Repercussion shenanigans? It’s not a good card.
This kind of thought is what Stifles creativity and makes Commander stagnant. By your logic here, why play anything else other than Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares? Let's make every deck exactly the same. When I see a card like this, I see a lot of potential other than a card like Swords to Plowshares that plays the game for you. Pay one white to exile, real challenging. Takes alot of deck design and decision making out of the game and makes your personal touches on your deck blandy bland bland. I feel like alot of people are missing the point of Commander when they look at everything in the strictly better sense. If everyone did strictly better, every deck would be exactly the same. No thanks.
Ha! Actually, I run neither card in any deck. I’d prefer more popular cards like them are banned, so people have to find other options. Everything in those top 50 lists? Ban ‘em!
Question for you in particular: Someone puts a gun to your head and makes you choose between this and plummet for your deck. Which do you choose?
Probably this. At least it scales.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Myriad is an ability I wish they did more with. 5 creatures + 1 artifact = Not enough to do much. As far as the Banshee goes, I have actually quite often been considering it. I don't like single-target hate in this format (Exceptance made for spot removal or counterspells) and the Banshee provides a specter-for-everyone. I have, however, never actually kept it in a deck.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Myriad is an ability I wish they did more with. 5 creatures + 1 artifact = Not enough to do much.
Agreed. Especially with the creatures being as uninspiring as they are.
Banshee of the Dread Choir & Broodbirth Viper don't come with evasion. Since the Banshee is a tad bigger, i'd pick that over the Viper. Of the evasion ones i'd say Herald of the Host is better than Caller of the Pack as it comes down earlier, has two types of evasion and still comes with a decent body. Warchief Giant is just a hasty red beater. Nothing special in my book.
Myriad is an ability I wish they did more with. 5 creatures + 1 artifact = Not enough to do much. As far as the Banshee goes, I have actually quite often been considering it. I don't like single-target hate in this format (Exceptance made for spot removal or counterspells) and the Banshee provides a specter-for-everyone. I have, however, never actually kept it in a deck.
I'd actually rate the banshee behind only the angel, as both are in colors that can make use of all the tokens they produce, so you get value from them even if they don't connect. The angel with Cathars Crusade is pretty good, and being able to sacrifice any surviving banshee tokens to black myriad (hurr) sac for value effects is also nice, as is grave pact.
None of them are particularly outstanding, but they can be fun.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I love myriad, but they really made the most vanilla creatures. Never seen any of them get played outside of a precon.
Yeah, I really think they could have made the creatures a lot cooler. I think the Banshee specifically should have said something like "When Banshee of the Dread Choir enters the battlefield, each player loses 2 life" instead of the spectre effect to both demonstrate the potential of 'myriad' (i.e. amplifying 'each player' effects) and to help emphasize the 'Choir' theme since the more there are, the more awful it would be for everyone.
As-is we got a flying vigilance, a haste, and a trample with only the blue and black cards being even remotely interesting.
I hope they re-visit this mechanic.
Strictly better Serra Angel is fine, I wouldn't call it uninspiring. It's the only one I ever run into, and the only one I actually have in a deck (angel tribal, but still). Being the only actually evasive creature of the bunch means that you can almost certainly find someone open every turn, and you can abuse the tokens easily in white, especially now with annointed procession, which means that every attack essentially leaves you with a bunch of extra Serra Angels that stick around (I think only the ones out into play attacking get exiled by myriad, while the ones created by doubling aren't attacking and aren't effected by the exile). Even without support, throwing Serra Angels at everyone isn't bad, not good enough to be competitive but a perfectly acceptable worst case scenario if you don't happen to have a way to abuse the tokens available and pretty solid in lower powered metas.
Otherwise, yeah, green and red are boring, blue isn't strong enough, and the banshee is interesting but weak without being in a deck that's built to support it, and its face value without support isn't good enough to serve as a backup plan if you don't have a way to generate value from the token creation.
The giant is pretty good with warstorm surge though, but you don't have enough other support for that in red, so you'll usually need to go white and either green or black to get more value out of the tokens. Mardu tokens for value? Surge and pandemonium, as well as procession, would give you a reason to run fatter tokens rather than relying on 1/1s as fodder. Not sure such a deck would be deep enough to be viable, maybe really casual.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Yes. If you put Blade of Selves on a creature with Myriad and attacked, you'd get two tokens attacking each opponent other than the one you attack with the actual creature.
If the Banshee was a 1/1 flyer for 3 mana, it would be amazing. Or Intimidate. Or Deathtouch.
I love myriad, but they really made the most vanilla creatures. Never seen any of them get played outside of a precon.
Well, by definition they aren't vanilla. But I think they intended to make you work for it with Blade of Selves, which of course is in the weakest deck. Partially because RW is weak, partially because Kalemne plays as "big Boros and Voltron", which is all kinds of antagonistic. But at least if you missed Gisela or Coldsteel Heart, you got those with the deck too. And two titans.
Beyond that, you're using it with ETB triggers. (Though of course, a creature equipped with Blade of Selves brings its own ETB trigger.)
This one I could see in maybe Nath or some sort of deck that takes advantage of everyone's graveyard. And it is cute to use her with Grave Pact and friends. She and the Broodbirth Viper at least have more than just keywords.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I know the people in this thread love taking obscure old crappy cards and find a use for them so...Impress me.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Firebreathing and Shade-pump just hasn't been impressive for many years unless its on already aggressive bodies. Eel is fair for the dark but also required Volcanic Island to really work back then. Most similar one-drop or two-drop creatures with efficient firebreathing have some devastating drawback, like being unable to block or costing 2 and being a 1/1.
Donate it, then slide it across the table to your opponent, thus doing the electric slide. GG.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
No combo ideas from me, but I love multi-color identity cards like these. The Yasova khans cycle and the mythic rares from that set (like Shaman of the Great Hunt) are just neat cards in my mind.
You really can eliminate the damage aspect by just giving it lifelink. So, I'm thinking we use Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis as a commander so we can use Darien, King of Kjeldor and Cryptolith Rite (which should be a must-have in just about any 4+ color deck featuring green, TBH) plus something to double the tokens.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Jokes aside, this card needs something that makes use of its drawback, but its a fairly expense source of self damage so it also needs something to make use of its firebreathing ability. It is U/R, so at least it has a large number of ways to become unblockable, though many are not very good. One of my first decks was a U/R deck focused on giving small dudes unblockable and then pumping them, but it wasn't very strong. If you are already going the self harm route, AND you can easily grant creatures evasion, then you can actually get a lot of work out of this guy, assuming you have enough red mana. As mentioned before, Darien in a Jeskai deck is nice, but with the RR activation cost its probably better to stick to U/R or only have the third color be a splash made by dual lands.
In silver bordered, combos with Half kitten.
Dissipation Field returns it to your hand after it ETBs because it damages you. This can net you X ETB/LTB triggers, where X is the amount of U and life you are willing to pay. Needs an outlet though. Oh yea, Purphoros, Surge, and a bunch of other relevant red cards.
Now I should go add this to the "combos the table can't be mad at" thread.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Actually quite nice since you can tutor it up with your other Rebels.
Does anyone think that WotC is way too careful with the Rebel/Mercenary creature type and new sets? I wouldn't mind seeing the odd playable addition to an old and now underpowered mechanic.
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This kind of thought is what Stifles creativity and makes Commander stagnant. By your logic here, why play anything else other than Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares? Let's make every deck exactly the same. When I see a card like this, I see a lot of potential other than a card like Swords to Plowshares that plays the game for you. Pay one white to exile, real challenging. Takes alot of deck design and decision making out of the game and makes your personal touches on your deck blandy bland bland. I feel like alot of people are missing the point of Commander when they look at everything in the strictly better sense. If everyone did strictly better, every deck would be exactly the same. No thanks.
I reply with Rush lyrics and probably die for the sake of the joke.
Ha! Actually, I run neither card in any deck. I’d prefer more popular cards like them are banned, so people have to find other options. Everything in those top 50 lists? Ban ‘em!
I use Dispatch in artifact builds.
But this card is trash.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Probably this. At least it scales.
On phasing:
Banshee of the Dread Choir
Myriad is an ability I wish they did more with. 5 creatures + 1 artifact = Not enough to do much. As far as the Banshee goes, I have actually quite often been considering it. I don't like single-target hate in this format (Exceptance made for spot removal or counterspells) and the Banshee provides a specter-for-everyone. I have, however, never actually kept it in a deck.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Banshee of the Dread Choir & Broodbirth Viper don't come with evasion. Since the Banshee is a tad bigger, i'd pick that over the Viper. Of the evasion ones i'd say Herald of the Host is better than Caller of the Pack as it comes down earlier, has two types of evasion and still comes with a decent body. Warchief Giant is just a hasty red beater. Nothing special in my book.
Bottomline: Herald of the Host > Caller of the Pack > Banshee of the Dread Choir > Broodbirth Viper > Warchief Giant
None of them come anywhere close to what shenanigans Blade of Selves can create.
Does myriad creature stack with Blade of Selves?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I never built those decks.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
None of them are particularly outstanding, but they can be fun.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I love myriad, but they really made the most vanilla creatures. Never seen any of them get played outside of a precon.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Yeah, I really think they could have made the creatures a lot cooler. I think the Banshee specifically should have said something like "When Banshee of the Dread Choir enters the battlefield, each player loses 2 life" instead of the spectre effect to both demonstrate the potential of 'myriad' (i.e. amplifying 'each player' effects) and to help emphasize the 'Choir' theme since the more there are, the more awful it would be for everyone.
As-is we got a flying vigilance, a haste, and a trample with only the blue and black cards being even remotely interesting.
I hope they re-visit this mechanic.
- Rabid Wombat
She is my favorite target to resolve on turn 3 via Sol ring as the tempo advantage she provides does so much work for my late game.
Otherwise, yeah, green and red are boring, blue isn't strong enough, and the banshee is interesting but weak without being in a deck that's built to support it, and its face value without support isn't good enough to serve as a backup plan if you don't have a way to generate value from the token creation.
The giant is pretty good with warstorm surge though, but you don't have enough other support for that in red, so you'll usually need to go white and either green or black to get more value out of the tokens. Mardu tokens for value? Surge and pandemonium, as well as procession, would give you a reason to run fatter tokens rather than relying on 1/1s as fodder. Not sure such a deck would be deep enough to be viable, maybe really casual.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Now add Masterwork of Ingenuity, Phyrexian Metamorph, Clever Impersonator, Copy Artifact, Copy Enchantment (since the Copy Artifact copy is an Artifact Enchantment), Sculpting Steel, Mizzium Transreliquat, Mirage Mirror, Saheeli Rai, Saheeli's Artistry, and Stolen Identity. Maybe a Cogwork Assembler or Mirrorworks if you've got enough mana, and Mechanized Production if you've got some turns to kill. Myriad x12 or more.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Well, by definition they aren't vanilla. But I think they intended to make you work for it with Blade of Selves, which of course is in the weakest deck. Partially because RW is weak, partially because Kalemne plays as "big Boros and Voltron", which is all kinds of antagonistic. But at least if you missed Gisela or Coldsteel Heart, you got those with the deck too. And two titans.
Beyond that, you're using it with ETB triggers. (Though of course, a creature equipped with Blade of Selves brings its own ETB trigger.)
This one I could see in maybe Nath or some sort of deck that takes advantage of everyone's graveyard. And it is cute to use her with Grave Pact and friends. She and the Broodbirth Viper at least have more than just keywords.
On phasing:
I know the people in this thread love taking obscure old crappy cards and find a use for them so...Impress me.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
How can you not play this in your Jeskai self-harm deck? Perfect deck for Swans of Bryn Argoll+Niv-Mizzet, the firemind combo.
You can just fill your deck with weird combos that don't win on the spot. It's perfect!
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
We've done it boys. We've solved Magic.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
You really can eliminate the damage aspect by just giving it lifelink. So, I'm thinking we use Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis as a commander so we can use Darien, King of Kjeldor and Cryptolith Rite (which should be a must-have in just about any 4+ color deck featuring green, TBH) plus something to double the tokens.
On phasing:
In silver bordered, combos with Half kitten.
Dissipation Field returns it to your hand after it ETBs because it damages you. This can net you X ETB/LTB triggers, where X is the amount of U and life you are willing to pay. Needs an outlet though. Oh yea, Purphoros, Surge, and a bunch of other relevant red cards.
Now I should go add this to the "combos the table can't be mad at" thread.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Lawbringer
For when you really hate Red.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Does anyone think that WotC is way too careful with the Rebel/Mercenary creature type and new sets? I wouldn't mind seeing the odd playable addition to an old and now underpowered mechanic.