Infect is not a strong strategy in EDH, despite what some who wants poison to be set at 15 or even 20 would have you believe. Other player's damage doesn't help your cause and there aren't many quality creatures that have it. This is a prime example of the last bit.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
You missed Blightsteel Colossus, which sees tons of play. Also, Corrupted Conscience is a pet card of mine in decks with no other infect going on. People will often happily build a creature big enough to one shot themselves after you steal it.
But Priests of Norn seems like it would go into a more dedicated infect list, or a dedicated equipment list. Good with Vulshok Gauntlets, eh?
(Tainted Strike seems really bad to me, maybe I'm crazy but it only works if you have (or an opponent has) a rediculously huge creature already?)
Tainted Strike + Soul's Fire with Lord of Tresserhorn is the only instakill Commander I can think of that has 10 base power. Tainted Strike kills out of nowhere, it's great.
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"People are the worst. The worst thing about music is that people play it." - Mike Patton
Poison is only good for tricks. It's already bad enough as a creature to begin with, but now you're politically shooting yourself in the foot by just standing there with a creature that has the word "infect" in its rules text. Now nobody likes you and they're also laughing at you for having this in your deck. For shame...
White is a pretty terrible colour to be playing in infect decks. I've got two decks that have infect creatures in them. Ezuri, Claw of Progress has a lone Blighted Agent that occasionally closes out games. The Mimeoplasm is a deck that does run a dedicated infect strategy, but the creatures are mostly just there to end up in the graveyard to feed the ooze.
Tainted Strike is a fun trick, but not exactly good. Some decks do attack with 9 power-plus creatures with some regularity and, in them, instant speed +1/+0 infect on an unblocked creature is of course a game ender. The most fun use for it though is to cast Tainted Strike on an opponent's creature, turning their unblocked attack on another opponent into a killing blow.
One other thing to remember about infect is the -1/-1 counters part. Wither on a big-butt blocker is very strong, and that increases the value on cards like Priests of Norn even if you're never planning to win via poison. Unfortunately, a dedicated blocker needs to be very strong to make the cut in EDH, and this still falls far short of the mark.
Infect is not a strong strategy in EDH, despite what some who wants poison to be set at 15 or even 20 would have you believe. Other player's damage doesn't help your cause and there aren't many quality creatures that have it. This is a prime example of the last bit.
For 3 mana you should at least get 6 stat points. Norn only gives you 5.
Vigilance is a decent ability but 4 toughness isn't going to block very well. I could see this potentially in Doran as a 4/4 vigilance infect creature but Priest competes with Doran in the same cmc slot and the only reason why you would need infect is if Doran is facing a lot of lifegain decks and Doran already solves this with commander damage. Priest kills people in 3 hits so it's not all bad.
I actually think this is an ok card. It doesn't seem like it at first, but even just using this on the block means people have to ask themselves how they feel about their attacker taking -1/1
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Decks:
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
Infect is not a strong strategy in EDH, despite what some who wants poison to be set at 15 or even 20 would have you believe. Other player's damage doesn't help your cause and there aren't many quality creatures that have it. This is a prime example of the last bit.
One other thing to remember about infect is the -1/-1 counters part.
This is the main reason I run Grafted Exoskeleton in my Zurgo Helmsmasher deck. The deck is built around fight, and especially the pseudo-fight ability found on cards like Tahngarth, Talruum Hero.
Tahngarth deals his damage first, which normally doesn't matter because SBAs aren't checked until after the fight is over. But if Tahngarth has wither or infect, he shrinks the opposing creature before getting hit back, meaning he can take on creatures far beyond his weight class. It's great.
Also, 'yknow, slapping Exoskeleton on Zurgo means he only needs +1/+0 more to be a one-shot kill.
These gorgon siblings have a very powerful suite of abilities, but it comes at a massive cost. 8 mana for a 7/5, and then a further 6 in order to 'steal' a creature. While the abilities are fairly priced, it's initial mana cost holds it back, as is the case for multiple legends from original Ravnica. That said, these are still in the strongest ramp colours so it's not impossible to recast them. Just don't expect a Stone Death deck to ever truly be competitive.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Man, I missed Priests of Norn and how no one figured out its flavor at first, thinking it just convinced opponents' creatures not to fight.
Many cards from Scars of Mirrodin are double references, first as a "corrupted" version of a classic Magic card (and in the case of creatures, the classic version sucked because early creatures are generally unplayable), secondly with the flavor of a particular infectious disease. Priests of Norn, besides being a "corrupted" Yotian Soldier, is smallpox. (Kinda apropos for the next block that we cover this today.) I've actually used it (and other infect big-butts) in Doran to good effect, and I used it in the subsequent Standard (with Spirit Mantle and, because I'm perverse like that, Honor of the Pure).
Sisters of Stone Death is kind of interesting, probably better as one of the 99, just because you can mill/discard and reanimate them then. It still costs 2BBGG over two turns (BGG one turn, 2B either that turn or the next) to steal something. It might just be easier to use them to exile things.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I have a soft spot for the Ravnican Guild Leaders, and an extra soft spot for the Sisters of Stone Death, I've always wanted to build a deck with these girls at the helm, but as said, the rent is too damn high. 8 mana on the first cast, 3 to exile a creature and then another 3 if you want to steal it. The seven power almost makes me want to run a voltron build, but I'm not sure how well black and green could support such a strategy.
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EDH Pantheon UBRG Yidris, Eye of the Storm WBR Kaalia, Herald of Apocalypse UBG Damia, Sage of Nightmare WBG Karador, the Bridge Between WU Grand Warden Augustin IV RG Omnath, Locus of Awakening BG Nath Addict UR Niv Mizzet, Brain Aflame B Kokusho, the Mourning Star U Memnarch is All
Infect is not a strong strategy in EDH, despite what some who wants poison to be set at 15 or even 20 would have you believe. Other player's damage doesn't help your cause and there aren't many quality creatures that have it. This is a prime example of the last bit.
Have people ever played a Saskia infect deck? Poison suddenly become a universal count down.
As for Sisters, I presume if we manage to exile creatures with them ASIDE FROM HER OWN ABILITY, we can still play those exiled creatures. The question is, how?
As for Sisters, I presume if we manage to exile creatures with them ASIDE FROM HER OWN ABILITY, we can still play those exiled creatures. The question is, how?
Well, A Necrotic Ooze with both Scavenging Ooze and the Sisters in the grave could be funny, assuming the rules actually work that way.
As for Sisters, I presume if we manage to exile creatures with them ASIDE FROM HER OWN ABILITY, we can still play those exiled creatures. The question is, how?
You cannot. The Sisters have what is called a "linked ability", which means the third ability can only bring back creatures specifically exiled by the second ability.
As for Sisters, I presume if we manage to exile creatures with them ASIDE FROM HER OWN ABILITY, we can still play those exiled creatures. The question is, how?
You cannot. The Sisters have what is called a "linked ability", which means the third ability can only bring back creatures specifically exiled by the second ability.
Correct:
Quote from The Rules »
607.5. If an object acquires a pair of linked abilities as part of the same effect, the abilities will be similarly linked to one another on that object even though they weren’t printed on that object. They can’t be linked to any other ability, regardless of what other abilities the object may currently have or may have had in the past.
Example: Arc-Slogger has the ability “{R}, Exile the top ten cards of your library: Arc-Slogger deals 2 damage to target creature or player.” Sisters of Stone Death has the ability “{B}{G}: Exile target creature blocking or blocked by Sisters of Stone Death” and the ability “{2}{B}: Put a creature card exiled with Sisters of Stone Death onto the battlefield under your control.” Quicksilver Elemental has the ability “{U}: Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn.” If a player has Quicksilver Elemental gain Arc-Slogger’s ability, activates it, then has Quicksilver Elemental gain Sisters of Stone Death’s abilities, activates the exile ability, and then activates the return-to-the-battlefield ability, only the creature card Quicksilver Elemental exiled with Sisters of Stone Death’s ability can be returned to the battlefield. Creature cards Quicksilver Elemental exiled with Arc-Slogger’s ability can’t be returned.
I ran a decent BG elves list headed by Sisters for a long time - probably decent more for the elves than the general - and they're still one of my favorite creatures. I love having them on the board but hate the cost to get them there. Elves worked well because they're obviously good for mana production and have a strong suite of creature untappers, which is a ton of fun when you're forcing blocks with Sisters. Any source of trample with open mana makes them a borderline unblockable three turn clock and you can pull off some really fun tricks flashing in creatures with the third ability. My personal favorite was countering something with a Draining Whelk, because people tend to not look at the BG player's open mana when it comes to stack interactions (even with a counterspell sitting face up on the table).
Not very competitive, lots of fun.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
As for Sisters, I presume if we manage to exile creatures with them ASIDE FROM HER OWN ABILITY, we can still play those exiled creatures. The question is, how?
You cannot. The Sisters have what is called a "linked ability", which means the third ability can only bring back creatures specifically exiled by the second ability.
Correct:
Quote from The Rules »
607.5. If an object acquires a pair of linked abilities as part of the same effect, the abilities will be similarly linked to one another on that object even though they weren’t printed on that object. They can’t be linked to any other ability, regardless of what other abilities the object may currently have or may have had in the past.
Example: Arc-Slogger has the ability “{R}, Exile the top ten cards of your library: Arc-Slogger deals 2 damage to target creature or player.” Sisters of Stone Death has the ability “{B}{G}: Exile target creature blocking or blocked by Sisters of Stone Death” and the ability “{2}{B}: Put a creature card exiled with Sisters of Stone Death onto the battlefield under your control.” Quicksilver Elemental has the ability “{U}: Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn.” If a player has Quicksilver Elemental gain Arc-Slogger’s ability, activates it, then has Quicksilver Elemental gain Sisters of Stone Death’s abilities, activates the exile ability, and then activates the return-to-the-battlefield ability, only the creature card Quicksilver Elemental exiled with Sisters of Stone Death’s ability can be returned to the battlefield. Creature cards Quicksilver Elemental exiled with Arc-Slogger’s ability can’t be returned.
Thanks for the ruling. How do we know if abilities are linked? Just by appearing on the same card? If Mairsil, the Pretender somehow acquired the abilities of both Arc-Slogger and Sisters, he could however bring those creatures back even if he did so via Arc-Slogger's ability?
As for Sisters, I presume if we manage to exile creatures with them ASIDE FROM HER OWN ABILITY, we can still play those exiled creatures. The question is, how?
You cannot. The Sisters have what is called a "linked ability", which means the third ability can only bring back creatures specifically exiled by the second ability.
Correct:
Quote from The Rules »
607.5. If an object acquires a pair of linked abilities as part of the same effect, the abilities will be similarly linked to one another on that object even though they weren’t printed on that object. They can’t be linked to any other ability, regardless of what other abilities the object may currently have or may have had in the past.
Example: Arc-Slogger has the ability “{R}, Exile the top ten cards of your library: Arc-Slogger deals 2 damage to target creature or player.” Sisters of Stone Death has the ability “{B}{G}: Exile target creature blocking or blocked by Sisters of Stone Death” and the ability “{2}{B}: Put a creature card exiled with Sisters of Stone Death onto the battlefield under your control.” Quicksilver Elemental has the ability “{U}: Quicksilver Elemental gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn.” If a player has Quicksilver Elemental gain Arc-Slogger’s ability, activates it, then has Quicksilver Elemental gain Sisters of Stone Death’s abilities, activates the exile ability, and then activates the return-to-the-battlefield ability, only the creature card Quicksilver Elemental exiled with Sisters of Stone Death’s ability can be returned to the battlefield. Creature cards Quicksilver Elemental exiled with Arc-Slogger’s ability can’t be returned.
Thanks for the ruling. How do we know if abilities are linked? Just by appearing on the same card? If Mairsil, the Pretender somehow acquired the abilities of both Arc-Slogger and Sisters, he could however bring those creatures back even if he did so via Arc-Slogger's ability?
No. The ability to copy linked abilities can't link them to new abilities. They way you figure it out is to basically assume every reference from one ability to another is linked, and there's a wall seperating everything else.
For you programmers out there: Think of it as multiple inheritance. You can do any method (ability) you inherited from class Arc Slogger, and everything from class Sisters of Stone Death, but they can't see each other. The internal methods might even call eachother, this would be linked.
Generally speaking, in the decks that want this effect cards like Firebrand Archer and Guttersnipe are better due to not needing to tap, making them better emergency blockers and not needing to wait a turn to work their magic. If you want even more of these effects though, this is a fair choice, and if you have untap synergies it gets better.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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Infect is not a strong strategy in EDH, despite what some who wants poison to be set at 15 or even 20 would have you believe. Other player's damage doesn't help your cause and there aren't many quality creatures that have it. This is a prime example of the last bit.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Specialty cards:
Blighted Agent (in green-blue Ezuri only)
Inkmoth Nexus (in several decks)
Phyrexian Hydra/Putrefax/Phyrexian Juggernaut (in infect Xenagos)
The common infect cards (in order of how good I think they are)
Triumph of the Hordes - By far the best one imo
Tainted Strike
Grafted Exoskeleton
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Yeah, this is not one of them. Infect in white is not where you want to be.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon is a nice card for many lists, from Scion of the Ur-Dragon to Mairsil, the Pretender
But Priests of Norn seems like it would go into a more dedicated infect list, or a dedicated equipment list. Good with Vulshok Gauntlets, eh?
(Tainted Strike seems really bad to me, maybe I'm crazy but it only works if you have (or an opponent has) a rediculously huge creature already?)
Tainted Strike + Soul's Fire with Lord of Tresserhorn is the only instakill Commander I can think of that has 10 base power. Tainted Strike kills out of nowhere, it's great.
One other thing to remember about infect is the -1/-1 counters part. Wither on a big-butt blocker is very strong, and that increases the value on cards like Priests of Norn even if you're never planning to win via poison. Unfortunately, a dedicated blocker needs to be very strong to make the cut in EDH, and this still falls far short of the mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAqIKpbHXrQ
For 3 mana you should at least get 6 stat points. Norn only gives you 5.
Vigilance is a decent ability but 4 toughness isn't going to block very well. I could see this potentially in Doran as a 4/4 vigilance infect creature but Priest competes with Doran in the same cmc slot and the only reason why you would need infect is if Doran is facing a lot of lifegain decks and Doran already solves this with commander damage. Priest kills people in 3 hits so it's not all bad.
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
This artwork is insane though..
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Tahngarth deals his damage first, which normally doesn't matter because SBAs aren't checked until after the fight is over. But if Tahngarth has wither or infect, he shrinks the opposing creature before getting hit back, meaning he can take on creatures far beyond his weight class. It's great.
Also, 'yknow, slapping Exoskeleton on Zurgo means he only needs +1/+0 more to be a one-shot kill.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
These gorgon siblings have a very powerful suite of abilities, but it comes at a massive cost. 8 mana for a 7/5, and then a further 6 in order to 'steal' a creature. While the abilities are fairly priced, it's initial mana cost holds it back, as is the case for multiple legends from original Ravnica. That said, these are still in the strongest ramp colours so it's not impossible to recast them. Just don't expect a Stone Death deck to ever truly be competitive.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Many cards from Scars of Mirrodin are double references, first as a "corrupted" version of a classic Magic card (and in the case of creatures, the classic version sucked because early creatures are generally unplayable), secondly with the flavor of a particular infectious disease. Priests of Norn, besides being a "corrupted" Yotian Soldier, is smallpox. (Kinda apropos for the next block that we cover this today.) I've actually used it (and other infect big-butts) in Doran to good effect, and I used it in the subsequent Standard (with Spirit Mantle and, because I'm perverse like that, Honor of the Pure).
Sisters of Stone Death is kind of interesting, probably better as one of the 99, just because you can mill/discard and reanimate them then. It still costs 2BBGG over two turns (BGG one turn, 2B either that turn or the next) to steal something. It might just be easier to use them to exile things.
On phasing:
UBRG Yidris, Eye of the Storm
WBR Kaalia, Herald of Apocalypse
UBG Damia, Sage of Nightmare
WBG Karador, the Bridge Between
WU Grand Warden Augustin IV
RG Omnath, Locus of Awakening
BG Nath Addict
UR Niv Mizzet, Brain Aflame
B Kokusho, the Mourning Star
U Memnarch is All
Have people ever played a Saskia infect deck? Poison suddenly become a universal count down.
As for Sisters, I presume if we manage to exile creatures with them ASIDE FROM HER OWN ABILITY, we can still play those exiled creatures. The question is, how?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Well, A Necrotic Ooze with both Scavenging Ooze and the Sisters in the grave could be funny, assuming the rules actually work that way.
Correct:
Not very competitive, lots of fun.
Thanks for the ruling. How do we know if abilities are linked? Just by appearing on the same card? If Mairsil, the Pretender somehow acquired the abilities of both Arc-Slogger and Sisters, he could however bring those creatures back even if he did so via Arc-Slogger's ability?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
No. The ability to copy linked abilities can't link them to new abilities. They way you figure it out is to basically assume every reference from one ability to another is linked, and there's a wall seperating everything else.
For you programmers out there: Think of it as multiple inheritance. You can do any method (ability) you inherited from class Arc Slogger, and everything from class Sisters of Stone Death, but they can't see each other. The internal methods might even call eachother, this would be linked.
Generally speaking, in the decks that want this effect cards like Firebrand Archer and Guttersnipe are better due to not needing to tap, making them better emergency blockers and not needing to wait a turn to work their magic. If you want even more of these effects though, this is a fair choice, and if you have untap synergies it gets better.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.