The benefit of having mana dorks in your deck is much lighter in multiplayer formats, you open yourself up to having nothing on board and nothing in hand so early in the game. So I wouldn't be reaching too far into the pool of mana dorks just to have them for a colorless deck. But sure, if you're playing infect it gets enough value for consideration. A good comparison for that reason is Millikin. It might make it into your deck if you have need to fill the graveyard in a weird color. You really need to get double duty out of them.
There are a few decks that do things with creatures with Defender and as far as those go, this one's relatively effective and helps you set up, so for those decks, it's not a poor choice. The plethora of 1-mana-manadorks ensures that in most decks this sees no play, though.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Doran Lord of the Walls likes it. They should print a legendary wall so we can have a wall commander, GWx, maybe with red for all the defender matters cards.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Strictly worse than Overgrown Battlement outside of a corner case interaction with Avenger of Zendikar, which is only worth mentioning because of Avenger's popularity in the format. I played this a lot when Masques was new but I probably haven't sleeved it up since. Largely outclassed by the aforementioned Battlement and Sylvan Caryatid (despite the loss of a point of toughness), all of which are worse than most 1 CMC dorks.
It's not a bad card but there are definitely better options.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
You gotta love the dirt-caked dryad back there smirking at ya. Wall of Roots is an amazing card that can pump out mana quickly and Vine Trellis does a poor imitation.
Doran Lord of the Walls likes it. They should print a legendary wall so we can have a wall commander, GWx, maybe with red for all the defender matters cards.
There aren't a lot of places for this wall, but I particularly like it for Yeva, Nature's Herald because it can stay untapped to protect you, then EoT tap for mana, and will do so better than fragile mana dorks.
Agreed, this is no Sylvan Caryatid. Back then, there was an effort to get cheap mana dorks out of Magic, similar to the post-Abzan crackdown on mana accel in general, except I'm really not sure what prompted this. (No, seriously, I'm not. Mana dorks had been kinda OP during Ice Age because Winter Orb and stompy, but I don't remember any mana dork that really said "broken" in Mirage, Tempest, or Urza block. The closest I can think of is Earthcraft, an enchantment that turned everything into a Ley Druid for basics only. Actually, in Tempest/Urza, blue was the color of choice for everything mana accel because of things like Mind Over Matter, Tolarian Academy, and all the free spells.) The next block would give us Utopia Tree and, likely the most expensive mana accel in the game, Lotus Guardian.
3/10 If you really love mana dorks, or you're doing some sort of deck with a lot of Pestilence-type effects, go ahead, but any mana dork aficionado can think of three that cost less, can attack or be sac'd to Skullclamp, and have better tribal synergy. I would love to see it back in Standard, but that's about it.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
You gotta love the dirt-caked dryad back there smirking at ya.
Vine Trellis is interesting to me in that I remember Tony DiTerlizzi doing a contest waaaaaay back in 97/98 to win a chance to be on a Magic card. I think you had to write a poem or a short story or something. The details have been lost in the ever-shifting sands of the internet, but the Dryad in the illustration is the winner of that contest.
Being a punisher card sucks, but both modes of this card are reasonably strong especially since you get a cantrip off of it. Can really mess up GY based decks if you aim it at something vital to them.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Being a punisher card sucks, but both modes of this card are reasonably strong especially since you get a cantrip off of it. Can really mess up GY based decks if you aim it at something vital to them.
I remember this card fondly, as both modes are fine and still attached to a two mana cantrip. Most notable, as you already implied, I've case this on many a Living Death and friends to great effect.
You can exile a graveyard and draw a card with Relic of Progenitus, but the real value of this card is to counter a spell and draw a card for two mana. This card gets weaker in multiples, so it is perfectly fine for EDH play.
Grip is a fun card. While you will always get the worst of the options,it always draws a card. I wouldn't play it in my most competitive decks but I have played it in several decks that were designed to be more laid back.
Grip of Amnesia seems like a very narrow card, best used against dedicated graveyard centric decks. Otherwise won't have much impact. Being a cheap cantrip is nice, though.
Agreed, this is no Sylvan Caryatid. Back then, there was an effort to get cheap mana dorks out of Magic, similar to the post-Abzan crackdown on mana accel in general, except I'm really not sure what prompted this.
If I remember correctly, WotC was tired of trying to design green around the expectation of having 3 usable mana on turn 2 all the time. Which is why we're seeing more T2 mana, and less dorks in general. Fast mana is strong, and they're tired of designing around it.
Well, it did make sense in context. This was Odyssey block, and the graveyard was a big deal, even for UR.
Here, I could see it being useful as a cheap cantrip counter against both the obligatory recursion spells all Commander decks use and graveyard strategies.
5/10 It's a cantrip, so I can't complain too much.
@JohnnyDegenerate: Yeah, something like that. One of the big problems with green has always been how to balance the fact that you'll have more mana with "Why should I have more mana?" (The other problem in the early days was that, quite frankly, early creatures sucked. And early fatties sucked harder.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The cantrip has always made me very unsure of this card. I like all of the things it does individually. I've never been able to make up my mind about how I feel about it as a pseudo-punisher card. I also don't own a copy and tend to forget about it when placing orders, so I can't even try it out.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Hmm. Grip of Amnesia is one of those marginal cards that's very, very good against some decks. Most Commander decks do run some kind of recursion, but I think I'd still pass on this, since it is only one spell among many in your deck. I feel like most players would rather have Arcane Denial. Though, I could see a Talrand, Sky Summoner or other spell-centric deck use this to surprise someone.
I used to run this card a lot. This was also when I ran all sorts of milldecks. I cat tell you how many times a deck was crippled via a spell triggering Memory Erosin putting a E. Titan or a Collossus into the yard and countering the spell with the shuffle trigger on the stack. Well, maybe not that many times, a few, but it was also a great counter when dropping Living Death and the like. And don't sleep on the cantrip! Something I can say that does happen often is players don't realize the value they are exiling from their 'yard. I used to have an Azusa player that was the bane of my EDH being. All these flashy creatures, degenerate combos, LD. It was the worst. Had one game where he cast Cultivate, I cast GoA, it was early but he had a Strip Mine and Crop Rotation, a green fetch too, in the 'yard. He took the exile, then drew into Crucible of Worlds. Was able to recover well enough to get Oona out a few turns later as he struggled hitting drops, I just swarmed him for lethal. He could have easily locked out the game, but GoA saved the day. I believe the card I drew was a Sol Ring. I also lost that game, overall. Austere Command Artifacts/4+ creatures after we(I) eliminated Azusa. I was still pretty happy.
I don't like it. You're always going to get the worst of the two. There are many better options.
Even worse, you can't force it into the counterspell mode (via Rest in Peace, etc.), because the card permits exiling 0 cards from an empty graveyard to prevent the counter.
I don't like it. You're always going to get the worst of the two. There are many better options.
Even worse, you can't force it into the counterspell mode (via Rest in Peace, etc.), because the card permits exiling 0 cards from an empty graveyard to prevent the counter.
That name should've been on something a bit more epic.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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Vine Trellis
There are a few decks that do things with creatures with Defender and as far as those go, this one's relatively effective and helps you set up, so for those decks, it's not a poor choice. The plethora of 1-mana-manadorks ensures that in most decks this sees no play, though.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
It's not a bad card but there are definitely better options.
Would make pillowfort.dec happier lol
It's no Sylvan Caryatid, though.
everythingmana accel because of things like Mind Over Matter, Tolarian Academy, and all the free spells.) The next block would give us Utopia Tree and, likely the most expensive mana accel in the game, Lotus Guardian.3/10 If you really love mana dorks, or you're doing some sort of deck with a lot of Pestilence-type effects, go ahead, but any mana dork aficionado can think of three that cost less, can attack or be sac'd to Skullclamp, and have better tribal synergy. I would love to see it back in Standard, but that's about it.
On phasing:
Vine Trellis is interesting to me in that I remember Tony DiTerlizzi doing a contest waaaaaay back in 97/98 to win a chance to be on a Magic card. I think you had to write a poem or a short story or something. The details have been lost in the ever-shifting sands of the internet, but the Dryad in the illustration is the winner of that contest.
Being a punisher card sucks, but both modes of this card are reasonably strong especially since you get a cantrip off of it. Can really mess up GY based decks if you aim it at something vital to them.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I remember this card fondly, as both modes are fine and still attached to a two mana cantrip. Most notable, as you already implied, I've case this on many a Living Death and friends to great effect.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
If I remember correctly, WotC was tired of trying to design green around the expectation of having 3 usable mana on turn 2 all the time. Which is why we're seeing more T2 mana, and less dorks in general. Fast mana is strong, and they're tired of designing around it.
Here, I could see it being useful as a cheap cantrip counter against both the obligatory recursion spells all Commander decks use and graveyard strategies.
5/10 It's a cantrip, so I can't complain too much.
@JohnnyDegenerate: Yeah, something like that. One of the big problems with green has always been how to balance the fact that you'll have more mana with "Why should I have more mana?" (The other problem in the early days was that, quite frankly, early creatures sucked. And early fatties sucked harder.)
On phasing:
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
"Countering" a Lord of Extinction, Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, or even well timed Life from the Loam totally makes up for it. It's far from "bad card is bad", as it hoses a ton of strategies that are rampant in EDH.
That name should've been on something a bit more epic.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.