Just moved to a new town, and went to play last night at my new shop, and it was a sea of t1 decks. Lots of ug and ugx, every deck had some sort of combo to go infinite. I pretty much tonned down all my decks to not be oppressive and allow more interactions, which to me is the point of edh.
To each there own and all, I just don't want to dump 500$+ to be competitive, but it is the only store I can play at within my area, so I kind of want to make it work.
My question to you all would be, what commander/deck/playstyle can compete with people with thousands of dollars worth of collection.
I'm thinking at least red should be involved for a nonbasic land hate package, maybe even green (I have a surrak good stuff deck I could modify)
I'd just rather not build another mono red deck right now (I have 2 atm)
Purphoros, God of the Forge presents ETB the Gathering. Bit unfortunate as you say that's a no-go, but he's easily the best bang for your buck if balls to the wall is what you need.
Mono colored is definitely the way to go to keep the budget down. Mono Blue is probably the most competitive with something like Arcum Dagsson, followed by Mono Green Omnath, Locus of Mana.
Good luck, I know it can be a bummer joining a new meta.
Actually one of the red decks I mentioned was a krenko list that was born from the ashes of a purph deck. I just feel like he won't be fast enough to compete with tuned combo lists, but I might have to dust him off again
How fast of a combo clock are we talking about? Purph's main advantage is how fantastically non-interactive he is and how redundant you can make the list, with a T5-6 table kill being quite reasonable. If you need faster, you could go for an Arcum, I'm not sure how expensive that would be though. If you want faster than that still, go for Sidisi ANT, which will reliably goldfish T2-3 table gibs.
Mizzix can be super effective without dumping a lot of money into her. She also has the added benefit of being near t1 as you upgrade her with money cards over time.
Could also go Grixis Stax (Style points with Lord of Tresserhorn, or plain old better points with Mishra, Artificier Prodigy), as a quick and cheap way of being competitive that can be improved once you have more cash.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I piloted a deck like this using Rayne, Academy Chancellor for a long time and it could even beat tuned Duel Commander decks 1v1 about a third of the time. Just counter their combo pieces, counter their commanders, shut down their mana, and draw til you win.
Second Edric, Spymaster of Trest. Best part about building the T1 Edric deck, the core of the deck is a bargain.
Mormir Vig, Simic Visionary may still be T1 (The core of Animar was built on the same cards of Mormir. The combos are identical in function), but the cards in it are not deck exclusive like most of T1 Edric decks. It is something to keep in mind while building/purchasing as a budget builder.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I'm going to be giving edric a go,I might also throw together purphoros again. I'll let you know how things go this weekend
Second Edric, Spymaster of Trest. Best part about building the T1 Edric deck, the core of the deck is a bargain.
i third that. considering most your beaters are gonna be things like flying men et al, your draw package allows you to fuel multiple forbid buybacks per round the table with ease. ive even seen one version that has a couple of infect guys and some proliferate effects. didnt work so well, but all he had to do was spread the poison counters, and then proliferate-kill when he has the space.
and speaking of poison, you MIGHT wanna look at skittles. throw in a hatred for good times! other forms of mono-black control can be a good way to go, though you're probably better off if you have a cabal coffers, vesuva, urborg, tomb of yawgmoth et al.
Check out the Pauper Child of Alara thread in the Variants subforum. It is a really strong option versus competitive decks made up of all commons with suggestions for upgrading cards as well.
My shop and situation are exactly the same as yours. When the going gets sharky, I pack Sydri, Galvanic Genius and it's all 2-card infinite combos, tutors, and mana rocks. Mana rocks mean you can skimp on the land (and Sydri can get a double-use out of them), tutors can be skimped by running some of the cheaper ones, and most every 2-card artifact combo in Esper colors is like $2 each. Wins turn six if I really pack it in, "friendly" version has a few board wipes and control factors to hold the ground a few turns longer. Alternately you can run Sharuum the Hegemon as the canonical Esper combo, but that's a bit pricier because she isn't dropping before turn six. She'll also draw fire immediately.
If you're looking to go cheaper, Arcum Dagsson or Muzzio, Visionary Architect with the same policy, just in mono-blue, and probably have to include some aggro muscle to hold the board in case the combos don't come out fast enough.
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I have a major pet peeve with people saying they are trying not to be "oppressive" and "allow more interactions" by not using combos.
Most metas go like this: one guy builds a fast, glass cannon combo deck. Another person thinks "oh *****! I need to go faster now!" and builds their own glass cannon. Etc etc. This makes people think "man, I can't interact anymore! The meta is too fast!"
They ignore the fact that instant speed control elements stop so many combos. A lot of players new to the format think they should only use wipes for efficiency, but they ignore that they are usually sorcery speed.
Deadeye/Palinchron? A one cmc piece of removal ends it mid combo. Worldgorger combo? Removal. And that's just two examples, not even including counters. If you keep someone from winning the game... That piece of targeted removal isn't inefficient. Especially if it's a low cmc.
A lot of people get a bad taste in their mouths towards counters thanks to THAT guy. Everyone knows him. He runs 40 counters and no wincons, and he loves to make sure no one plays anything.
Counters are fine and not "oppressive" when used correctly. Save them to counter game winning plays like tooth and nail or others, not the one piece of ramp or a Ponder.
To sum it up, run more instant speed answers and maybe even some counters. If you play them right, you won't become THAT guy, and you'll win against glass cannon decks to boot.
Something I'm noticing is that people are suggesting commanders. While of course that *should* be important, right off the bat it simply isn't. Build a deck that can A) Win, B) Keep the other guys from winning, and C) be cheap.
As long as you aren't planning on playing a Commander that isn't essential to the deck (Like say Derevei or Azusa), you'll be fine picking someone for the colors and working from there; If you're trying to build a deck that works to bring people down to your level, Surrak Dragonclaw is just as good as Animar, Soul of Elements(Arguably better, as you can give your Kiki's and Conscripts Uncounterability).
It's not until you start trying to play the high tier combo/control decks that you even need to worry about what the commander says; Back to Basics does the same thing with Animar as it does with Surrak Heck, you could even buy Animar (or Maelstrom Wanderer), completely ignore them in the CZ, and just build up to them as you go.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Im not going to recommend a commander but rather reoccmend a color or two.
Red:
Im recommending red for its ability to disrupt people extremely effectively while doing this cheaply price wise.
1.Ruination, Shivian Harvest, Dwarven Miner ect all hose expensive mana bases which many decks that are more cutthroat tend to play. Viscous Shadows is another card those hoses many death based combos which should help you play more effectively.
Green:
Has some very good disruption such as: Krosan Grip, Acidic Slime, Reclamation Sage ect. Many combos involve enchantments and artifacts and green hoses these better than most colors. Further it offers spot removal for everything but creatures on a stick. Scavenging ooze, Spike Weaver, ect
If I was to recommned a commander Im going to go along the route of Slarg as recommned a RUG commander such as Yasova Dragonclaw whioch can maximize on opponents using more fine tuned mana based with Shivan Harvest as you can steal their creatures and wipe out their lands. This allows you blue if you want but more focuses on the R/G aspects of the commander. You can play cards like City of Shadows, Shivan Harvest[/c], Back to basics, evolutionary leap and Birthing Pod to turn their creatures into advantage while just keeping your mana open for interaction with the opponents.
TL:DR - Interacting with your opponents cards is the best way to mess with combos
I started off with a $200 derevi deck vs $2k+ decks and began taking tournament wins...so it is doable, but mostly because of the variety of redundant options of different pricing in GU. Simic colors are one of the strongest colors combos in the format and has many cheap staples (Prophet of Kruphix and Deadeye Navigator!). You can build a very dangerous deck with no card over $10 and easily upgrade in the future (Fauna Shaman turns into Survival of the Fittest, Counterspell becomes Mana Drain!), a luxury not often available in other colors or combinations; black for example, has usually barely/un-playable poor man's version in competitive (Diabolic Tutor is waaaay too slow in comp EDH...you need Vampiric Tutor/Demonic Tutor). GU-included commanders that are strong in comp:
Budget will base around the type of build you go for. I would suggest avoiding glass canon combo as they're only competitive fully optimized and even then, I find glass canon combo/lock decks to lose to proper control suites in the hands of good players. I would push for mid-range control-combo deck that have a mix of cheap 1-3cc instant answers and snowbally value effects at higher cc. Don't focus on a gimic too hard (if you run a token commander...dont just flood the deck with token synergy), 1/3rd of your deck should be dedicated to stopping opponents. Cheap Artifact/enchant hate should be a heavy focus, as many comp decks abuse these and require cheap answers. Cards like Acidic Slime are often too slow...but Reclamation Sage isn't and you'll realize the "land" option is not worth the extra cc. Part of your answers need to go beyond cheap 1 for 1's, either by mass removing, repeating effects, or hating. If you can run devastating hate effects that don't harm you, run them. Cards like Torpor Orb, Gaddock Teeg, Llawan, Cephalid Empress, and Rule of Law can destroy many comp decks that over commit on a theme. I highly suggest amassing a "meta board" and swap those card out when you see your meta shift. A comp Narset/Ad Nauseum/Hermit Druid/etc... can be completely shut out with a single 2-3cc hate card. Also they can give you political sway! A Spike Weaver can force a commander damage deck like Uril to attack others for you...or it can make it so you can help others for your own needs.
You'll need a few combo/lock kills, but you're budget so your speed will be bit slower than optimal decks, and that means you need to anticipate higher chances of opponent answers. I suggest aiming for ones where you aren't using cards that are only good if they meet the other half a combo when possible (EX:Pili-Pala and Grand Architect are typically bad alone. Glen Elendra Archmage + a creature that gives +1/+1 on entering can be more diverse in other uses.) I chose to use white's sac loops as one of my combos (Karmic Guide/Sun Titan/Saffi Eriksdotter/Reveillark/etc... + sac outlet) because all the cards are strong in many scenarios, self repair themselves, and can be comboed in several different combinations of each other. So build a deck that can survive if opponents answer you. Too many decks have poor ways to turn a match around if they get stopped because they waste time and turns tutoring and telegraphing into the big win with no back up. Try to have a deck that average turn 5-7 wins in solo test plays, not 2-5...but has answers specifically to stop those 2-5 types.
Just remember, for every broke, expensive combo...there's a $1-5 answer you can run. This is how I got ahead when I started. Analyze the decks you lose to and try to find common themes you can make adjustments for. I dominated a good 2 months when i slammed in 2cc anti-artifact hate cards and Llawan, realizing artifacts and blue creature dependent decks had gotten too strong, and I continued adjusting when they were forced to diversify.
A final note: Comp Commander is more than just broken decks, it easily is one of the highest levels of skilled play because of the sheer amount of play paths and how deep into Magic's higher layers of rules go. You cannot play it like Legacy for 4 players. Most players, even ones with comp decks, don't adjust to that fact. I would take time learning intricacies of rules that are often short cutted or irrelevant in 1v1 formats. Simply knowing something like how priority works can lead you to be a political master, where as most players will leap at an opportunity to counterspell or rely on improper play to cast it when no one pitches in...but priority is actually lost and no longer available to them. Comp EDH teaches you magic at a much higher level than 1v1 will. Learn to use that knowledge. Skill holds more influence in EDH than people make it out to be.
My thought as well. I lean slightly more towards Azami as the mana base is cheaper. Azami can be built 99% budget (Mind Over Matter is really the only "money" card: the rest is just draw, counters, tutors, and wizard filler ).
The Red 2014 commander deck is actually pretty legit and gets bonkers with minimal investment. Simply grab good stuff artifacts and go to town on people.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
To each there own and all, I just don't want to dump 500$+ to be competitive, but it is the only store I can play at within my area, so I kind of want to make it work.
My question to you all would be, what commander/deck/playstyle can compete with people with thousands of dollars worth of collection.
I'm thinking at least red should be involved for a nonbasic land hate package, maybe even green (I have a surrak good stuff deck I could modify)
I'd just rather not build another mono red deck right now (I have 2 atm)
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Good luck, I know it can be a bummer joining a new meta.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Although it will cost more you can also do very will on a budget with Gaddock Teeg hatebears.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Could also go Grixis Stax (Style points with Lord of Tresserhorn, or plain old better points with Mishra, Artificier Prodigy), as a quick and cheap way of being competitive that can be improved once you have more cash.
Pick a commander you like and cram in nothing but islands, cheap draw spells, manabase hosers like Back to Basics and Quicksilver Fountain, every counterspell you can find (12-15 easily), some mana rocks, a Strata Scythe and some cheap value blue creatures like Stormtide Leviathan and Phyrexian Ingester. The easiest wincon is Lab Maniac and something to exile your deck like Thought Lash or Leveler.
I piloted a deck like this using Rayne, Academy Chancellor for a long time and it could even beat tuned Duel Commander decks 1v1 about a third of the time. Just counter their combo pieces, counter their commanders, shut down their mana, and draw til you win.
Nicol Bolas Dragon Dick
Hanna, Ship's Navigator Heart-attack Stax
Oona, Queen of the Fae Fairy Dance
Vhati Il-Dal Tree of Woe
Scion of the Ur-Dragon Durgensturm
Jolrael, Empress of Beasts Jamuraa's Army
Liliana, Heretical Healer Rise from your Graves and Proliferate
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Angelic Judgment [
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Mormir Vig, Simic Visionary may still be T1 (The core of Animar was built on the same cards of Mormir. The combos are identical in function), but the cards in it are not deck exclusive like most of T1 Edric decks. It is something to keep in mind while building/purchasing as a budget builder.
Keep brewing.
i third that. considering most your beaters are gonna be things like flying men et al, your draw package allows you to fuel multiple forbid buybacks per round the table with ease. ive even seen one version that has a couple of infect guys and some proliferate effects. didnt work so well, but all he had to do was spread the poison counters, and then proliferate-kill when he has the space.
and speaking of poison, you MIGHT wanna look at skittles. throw in a hatred for good times! other forms of mono-black control can be a good way to go, though you're probably better off if you have a cabal coffers, vesuva, urborg, tomb of yawgmoth et al.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
If you're looking to go cheaper, Arcum Dagsson or Muzzio, Visionary Architect with the same policy, just in mono-blue, and probably have to include some aggro muscle to hold the board in case the combos don't come out fast enough.
Most metas go like this: one guy builds a fast, glass cannon combo deck. Another person thinks "oh *****! I need to go faster now!" and builds their own glass cannon. Etc etc. This makes people think "man, I can't interact anymore! The meta is too fast!"
They ignore the fact that instant speed control elements stop so many combos. A lot of players new to the format think they should only use wipes for efficiency, but they ignore that they are usually sorcery speed.
Deadeye/Palinchron? A one cmc piece of removal ends it mid combo. Worldgorger combo? Removal. And that's just two examples, not even including counters. If you keep someone from winning the game... That piece of targeted removal isn't inefficient. Especially if it's a low cmc.
A lot of people get a bad taste in their mouths towards counters thanks to THAT guy. Everyone knows him. He runs 40 counters and no wincons, and he loves to make sure no one plays anything.
Counters are fine and not "oppressive" when used correctly. Save them to counter game winning plays like tooth and nail or others, not the one piece of ramp or a Ponder.
To sum it up, run more instant speed answers and maybe even some counters. If you play them right, you won't become THAT guy, and you'll win against glass cannon decks to boot.
As long as you aren't planning on playing a Commander that isn't essential to the deck (Like say Derevei or Azusa), you'll be fine picking someone for the colors and working from there; If you're trying to build a deck that works to bring people down to your level, Surrak Dragonclaw is just as good as Animar, Soul of Elements(Arguably better, as you can give your Kiki's and Conscripts Uncounterability).
It's not until you start trying to play the high tier combo/control decks that you even need to worry about what the commander says; Back to Basics does the same thing with Animar as it does with Surrak Heck, you could even buy Animar (or Maelstrom Wanderer), completely ignore them in the CZ, and just build up to them as you go.
Red:
Im recommending red for its ability to disrupt people extremely effectively while doing this cheaply price wise.
1.Ruination, Shivian Harvest, Dwarven Miner ect all hose expensive mana bases which many decks that are more cutthroat tend to play.
Viscous Shadows is another card those hoses many death based combos which should help you play more effectively.
Green:
Has some very good disruption such as: Krosan Grip, Acidic Slime, Reclamation Sage ect. Many combos involve enchantments and artifacts and green hoses these better than most colors. Further it offers spot removal for everything but creatures on a stick. Scavenging ooze, Spike Weaver, ect
If I was to recommned a commander Im going to go along the route of Slarg as recommned a RUG commander such as Yasova Dragonclaw whioch can maximize on opponents using more fine tuned mana based with Shivan Harvest as you can steal their creatures and wipe out their lands. This allows you blue if you want but more focuses on the R/G aspects of the commander. You can play cards like City of Shadows, Shivan Harvest[/c], Back to basics, evolutionary leap and Birthing Pod to turn their creatures into advantage while just keeping your mana open for interaction with the opponents.
TL:DR - Interacting with your opponents cards is the best way to mess with combos
Budget will base around the type of build you go for. I would suggest avoiding glass canon combo as they're only competitive fully optimized and even then, I find glass canon combo/lock decks to lose to proper control suites in the hands of good players. I would push for mid-range control-combo deck that have a mix of cheap 1-3cc instant answers and snowbally value effects at higher cc. Don't focus on a gimic too hard (if you run a token commander...dont just flood the deck with token synergy), 1/3rd of your deck should be dedicated to stopping opponents. Cheap Artifact/enchant hate should be a heavy focus, as many comp decks abuse these and require cheap answers. Cards like Acidic Slime are often too slow...but Reclamation Sage isn't and you'll realize the "land" option is not worth the extra cc. Part of your answers need to go beyond cheap 1 for 1's, either by mass removing, repeating effects, or hating. If you can run devastating hate effects that don't harm you, run them. Cards like Torpor Orb, Gaddock Teeg, Llawan, Cephalid Empress, and Rule of Law can destroy many comp decks that over commit on a theme. I highly suggest amassing a "meta board" and swap those card out when you see your meta shift. A comp Narset/Ad Nauseum/Hermit Druid/etc... can be completely shut out with a single 2-3cc hate card. Also they can give you political sway! A Spike Weaver can force a commander damage deck like Uril to attack others for you...or it can make it so you can help others for your own needs.
You'll need a few combo/lock kills, but you're budget so your speed will be bit slower than optimal decks, and that means you need to anticipate higher chances of opponent answers. I suggest aiming for ones where you aren't using cards that are only good if they meet the other half a combo when possible (EX:Pili-Pala and Grand Architect are typically bad alone. Glen Elendra Archmage + a creature that gives +1/+1 on entering can be more diverse in other uses.) I chose to use white's sac loops as one of my combos (Karmic Guide/Sun Titan/Saffi Eriksdotter/Reveillark/etc... + sac outlet) because all the cards are strong in many scenarios, self repair themselves, and can be comboed in several different combinations of each other. So build a deck that can survive if opponents answer you. Too many decks have poor ways to turn a match around if they get stopped because they waste time and turns tutoring and telegraphing into the big win with no back up. Try to have a deck that average turn 5-7 wins in solo test plays, not 2-5...but has answers specifically to stop those 2-5 types.
Just remember, for every broke, expensive combo...there's a $1-5 answer you can run. This is how I got ahead when I started. Analyze the decks you lose to and try to find common themes you can make adjustments for. I dominated a good 2 months when i slammed in 2cc anti-artifact hate cards and Llawan, realizing artifacts and blue creature dependent decks had gotten too strong, and I continued adjusting when they were forced to diversify.
A final note: Comp Commander is more than just broken decks, it easily is one of the highest levels of skilled play because of the sheer amount of play paths and how deep into Magic's higher layers of rules go. You cannot play it like Legacy for 4 players. Most players, even ones with comp decks, don't adjust to that fact. I would take time learning intricacies of rules that are often short cutted or irrelevant in 1v1 formats. Simply knowing something like how priority works can lead you to be a political master, where as most players will leap at an opportunity to counterspell or rely on improper play to cast it when no one pitches in...but priority is actually lost and no longer available to them. Comp EDH teaches you magic at a much higher level than 1v1 will. Learn to use that knowledge. Skill holds more influence in EDH than people make it out to be.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
My thought as well. I lean slightly more towards Azami as the mana base is cheaper. Azami can be built 99% budget (Mind Over Matter is really the only "money" card: the rest is just draw, counters, tutors, and wizard filler ).
UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU's prison: blue is the new orange is the new black.
Mizzix Of The Izmagnus : wheels on fire... rolling down the road...
BSidisi, Undead VizierB: Bis zum Erbrechen
GTitiania, Protector Of ArgothG: Protecting Argoth, by blowing it up!
GYisan, The Wanderer BardG: Gradus Ad Elfball.
Duel EDH: Yisan & Titania.
In Progress: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV duel; Grenzo, Dungeon Warden Doomsday.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.