Those are what I'd start 98% of decks with, and of course there are plenty of other awesome near-auto-includes to flesh any mono black deck out, including these:
I understand using duress to protect a combo win or similar targeting whoever is most likely to counter spell your victory or the like. They are effeminately not for every deck in multiplayer but they have their uses and are very good at what they do. Which is part of what confuses me about this thread. There are dozens of top tier mono black cards but they can't all just be jammed into a random deck. Are we coming up with a top 50 good stuff list or are we trying to find the top 5-10 cards that should at least be highly considered for all mono black? Outside of that top 10 or so I think you can debate almost any cards inclusion in a deck if we are trying to build for a specific archetype.
I personally disagree with most staples, and often you can use something more useful to your deck theme in it's place. That being said, there are still a few cards that even I can't pass up.
of your list, I would definitely use Demonic Tutor, Yawgmoth's Will, Damnation, Cabal Coffers, Strip Mine, Bojuka Bog, Sol Ring
However, I'd also consider Shizo, Death's Storehouse: Comes in untapped and works with any commander. Mortuary Mire I am a big fan of. Crypt of Agadeem assuming you have a decent number of creatures. Animate Dead is probably the best CMC-for-effect reanimate, having next to no downside. Beacon of Unrest an excellent card all around.
I have edited the OP. Take a look. I hope that clears some confusion. I separated the decks into 3 lists, Commander 2 Player, Commander Multiplayer, and Duel Commander, so hopefully that aids discussions.
I added Hero's Downfall to all lists. Thoughts? For the multiplayer lists I added Perilous Vault and Nevinyrral's disk. Thoughts? I added Karn Liberated. He's expensive, but can target exile troublesome permanents. Thoughts?
Darkness is an interesting card. Would you use that card instead of Forcefield? Thoughts? Is it powerful enough to be called a staple?
I see some cards being suggested some more, I'll address those.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx : Dependent on Black Creatures and/or Enchantments being in play. Would not be auto-include in Black Storm Decks. Gray Merchant of Asphodel : Dependent on Black Creature and/or Enchantment Cards being in play. Would not be auto-include in Black Storm Decks. Kokusho, the Evening Star : Dependent on Creature Sac Outlet and probably recursion source. Not auto-include for all Black Decks. Fleshbag Marauder : Creature decks would probably want this but not all Black Decks. Chainer's Edict is cheaper and has flashback Merciless Executioner : Creature decks would probably want this but not all Black Decks. Chainer's Edict is cheaper and has flashback Volrath's Stronghold : Good card, but only in creature dependent decks, not every mono-black deck.
I did check the Duel Commander banlist, but missed Ancient Tomb. Thanks.
Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond are nice cards but also require card sacrifice which is not always desireable.
Ichor Wellspring requires a sac outlet to get the second card and the sac outlet is likely not immediate. Night's Whisper is immediately 2 cards. I consider that superior.
These cards are intended to serve as a base for deck creation. One should really think hard before trading them for something else.
1. I'm not interested in attacking the Commander ruleset. Leave that discussion elsewhere
2. Duel Commander decklists are a good indicator but by any means definitive on what should or should not be played
3. I never said nor implied that 2 cards in hand is always better than 1 card in hand. It simply nearly always is. I would say that even for a Stax deck where we like having more cards to tap for Tanglewire or sacrifice for Smokestack, that that Night's Whisper is still better than Ichor Wellspring. We need to have the Stax cards to begin with, and Night's Whisper is better at getting cards. I would advocate having both in a Stax deck personally.
4. I'll modify the word competitive. It seems to get people hung up. It does not mean that you have to build decks based on the current meta and build only Sidisi, Undead Vizier decks. It means that after choosing a mono-black General, you should use these cards as the starting base and should strongly think before replacing them with something else.
5. I found the Distress card. 1 more mana than Thoughtsieze and Duress but any nonland without loss of life. Thoughts?
I only removed Duress and Thoughtseize from the Multiplayer List, they remain on the other ones. I still think that they help maintain combos and get rid of pesky cards. Counterspells don't stop getting run in multiplayer games, so I don't see why these cards should be entirely eliminated either personally. If I get more support from more people, then I'll put them back into the multiplayer list.
I see Mind Twist in the multiplayer list. While undoubtedly a potent card, doesn't Myojin of Night's Reach serve the same purpose, only better, at the same (or even less) cmc as a hand-killing Mind Twist?
Plus, it plays nice with black's reanimation (to hand variants, not into play) and big mana strategies, while feeding devotion and providing a juicy target for Disciple of Bolas (another staple, given that I always see it when I play EDH?).
Cheers!
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I see Mind Twist in the multiplayer list. While undoubtedly a potent card, doesn't Myojin of Night's Reach serve the same purpose, only better, at the same (or even less) cmc as a hand-killing Mind Twist?
Plus, it plays nice with black's reanimation (to hand variants, not into play) and big mana strategies, while feeding devotion and providing a juicy target for Disciple of Bolas (another staple, given that I always see it when I play EDH?).
Cheers!
Myojin of Night's Reach is very expensive. I have trouble saying that every deck should have it. Disciple of Bolas is nice, but probably wouldn't be in a storm deck.
The cards in the lists need to be ones that you would want in any kind of competitive mono-black EDH Deck.
I've been playing EDH for quite a while, am I missing something? I keep hearing about Mono Black Storm in this thread...but I've never even heard of such a deck.
I guess a lot of these cards should not be considered because they also don't fit into rat tribal featuring 35+ Relentless Rats and Thrumming Stone. Anyway, point is, there are corner case outliers that you cannot reasonably consider. My guess is that corner cases like rat.deck and mono black storm aren't the competitive type you asked about in your OP.
I agree that the topic is about competitive decks and not corner cases. Not every possible mono-black deck type is competitively viable at this point in time.
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-Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
-Cabal Coffers
-Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
-Bojuka Bog
-Mana Crypt
-Sol Ring
-Vampiric Tutor
-Imperial Seal
-Demonic Tutor
-Night's Whisper
-Sign in Blood
-Toxic Deluge
-Fleshbag Marauder
-Merciless Executioner
-Phyrexian Arena
-Read the Bones
-Necropotence
-Syphon Mind
-Damnation
-Exsanguinate
Those are what I'd start 98% of decks with, and of course there are plenty of other awesome near-auto-includes to flesh any mono black deck out, including these:
-Dark Ritual
-Innocent Blood
-Dark Confidant
-Worn Powerstone
-Basalt Monolith
-Grim Haruspex
-Thran Dynamo
-Crypt Ghast
-Dictate of Erebos
-Gray Merchant of Asphodel
-Necrologia
-Black Market
-Living Death
-Wurmcoil Engine
-Kokusho, the Evening Star
-Grave Titan
-Massacre Wurm
-Sepulchral Primordial
-Sheoldred, Whispering One
-Myojin of Night's Reach
-Army of the Damned
-Rise of the Dark Realms
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
Card Draw Package
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necropotence
1 Syphon Mind
1 Nights Whisper
1 Read the Bones
1 Damnation
1 Toxic Deluge
Finisher Package
1 Exsanguinate
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
of your list, I would definitely use
Demonic Tutor, Yawgmoth's Will, Damnation, Cabal Coffers, Strip Mine, Bojuka Bog, Sol Ring
However, I'd also consider
Shizo, Death's Storehouse: Comes in untapped and works with any commander.
Mortuary Mire I am a big fan of.
Crypt of Agadeem assuming you have a decent number of creatures.
Animate Dead is probably the best CMC-for-effect reanimate, having next to no downside.
Beacon of Unrest an excellent card all around.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I added Hero's Downfall to all lists. Thoughts? For the multiplayer lists I added Perilous Vault and Nevinyrral's disk. Thoughts? I added Karn Liberated. He's expensive, but can target exile troublesome permanents. Thoughts?
Darkness is an interesting card. Would you use that card instead of Forcefield? Thoughts? Is it powerful enough to be called a staple?
I see some cards being suggested some more, I'll address those.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx : Dependent on Black Creatures and/or Enchantments being in play. Would not be auto-include in Black Storm Decks.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel : Dependent on Black Creature and/or Enchantment Cards being in play. Would not be auto-include in Black Storm Decks.
Kokusho, the Evening Star : Dependent on Creature Sac Outlet and probably recursion source. Not auto-include for all Black Decks.
Fleshbag Marauder : Creature decks would probably want this but not all Black Decks. Chainer's Edict is cheaper and has flashback
Merciless Executioner : Creature decks would probably want this but not all Black Decks. Chainer's Edict is cheaper and has flashback
Volrath's Stronghold : Good card, but only in creature dependent decks, not every mono-black deck.
Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond are nice cards but also require card sacrifice which is not always desireable.
Ichor Wellspring requires a sac outlet to get the second card and the sac outlet is likely not immediate. Night's Whisper is immediately 2 cards. I consider that superior.
These cards are intended to serve as a base for deck creation. One should really think hard before trading them for something else.
1. I'm not interested in attacking the Commander ruleset. Leave that discussion elsewhere
2. Duel Commander decklists are a good indicator but by any means definitive on what should or should not be played
3. I never said nor implied that 2 cards in hand is always better than 1 card in hand. It simply nearly always is. I would say that even for a Stax deck where we like having more cards to tap for Tanglewire or sacrifice for Smokestack, that that Night's Whisper is still better than Ichor Wellspring. We need to have the Stax cards to begin with, and Night's Whisper is better at getting cards. I would advocate having both in a Stax deck personally.
4. I'll modify the word competitive. It seems to get people hung up. It does not mean that you have to build decks based on the current meta and build only Sidisi, Undead Vizier decks. It means that after choosing a mono-black General, you should use these cards as the starting base and should strongly think before replacing them with something else.
5. I found the Distress card. 1 more mana than Thoughtsieze and Duress but any nonland without loss of life. Thoughts?
Additionally, I run the fetches because of their interaction with Rings Of Brighthearth.
I forgot about Hymn to Tourarch. That is a decent card.
Should Distress and/or Hymn to Tourach be added to these lists?
Plus, it plays nice with black's reanimation (to hand variants, not into play) and big mana strategies, while feeding devotion and providing a juicy target for Disciple of Bolas (another staple, given that I always see it when I play EDH?).
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Myojin of Night's Reach is very expensive. I have trouble saying that every deck should have it. Disciple of Bolas is nice, but probably wouldn't be in a storm deck.
The cards in the lists need to be ones that you would want in any kind of competitive mono-black EDH Deck.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearshttp://www.starcitygames.com/magic/commander/23076_Dear_Azami_The_Worst_Thing_You_Can_Still_Do_To_People.html
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-portal-storm/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tendrils-03-11-13-1/
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears