IDK what you guys are talking about. Legendary rule on scion if he is another creature? Scion is not sakashima the impostor.
Scion's activated ability is a continuous effect that lasts until end of turn. Clone on a scion that has activated his ability to become some other dragon only sees what the scion currently is - the clone sees the other dragon.
611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period.
611.2. A continuous effect may be generated by the resolution of a spell or ability.
611.2a A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability lasts as long as stated by the spell or ability creating it (such as “until end of turn”). If no duration is stated, it lasts until the end of the game.
...
611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won’t change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability that doesn’t modify the characteristics or change the controller of any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren’t affected when that continuous effect began.
Even if scion did act like Sakashima, then the rite-kicked combo still works due to last-known effects.
704.5k If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.”
Note that in order for the Legendary state-based action to be triggered, the Legendary permanents are both already on the battlefield and therefore any triggered enters the battlefield abilities (ETB) are also triggered. As the Legend rule is a state-based action, the choice of which Legendary permanent will be kept will be made before the ETB triggered abilities are put on the stack and resolve.
So if scourge of valkas was legendary, then ETB triggers still happen, and use last-known-effects, and you have to sacrifice the 5 tokens. A scion-valkas that is targeted with a kicked rite of replication will see 5x scion-valkas enter the battlefield, and the 5x that enter will also trigger themselves, seeing a grand total of 6x dragons in play.
30 individual triggers of 6 damage, 180 damage total spread to legal targets. dragon tempest is a nice addition here if you can't reliably get the scourge.
So, I looked deeper into this: The correct answer is yes and no!
Now if Scourge of Valkas was legendary, e.g. via Leyline of Singularity, we would still have 30 triggers on the stack. However, the number of dragons would be checked upon resolution of the triggers and at this point we should have only 1 dragon remaining, thanks to the state-based action (if I understand this correctly), so: #dragons * #triggers = 1 * (6 * 5) = 30 damage.
[quote from="A.D.D Hahaha »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/638260-competitive-edh-tribes?comment=6"]
Dragons
There are a few dragons that works but in terms of feeling like a tribal deck Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund wins.
I need to disagree. Best dragon tribal general is Atarka, world render. Without questions, she is the strongest.
Sedris, the Traitor King is an underrated utilitarian zombie general. I built the deck to be a more casual build, but it wound up being decently competitive. I run a Nekusar wheels subtheme because filling my yard synergizes with everything else in the deck and I can do it while drawing less hate than if Nekusar is my general, and I wound up with a chunky midrange build that almost feels like a goodstuff deck despite being completely tribal.
No one chose Allies? I've been running Reaper King Allies before BFZ was spoiled and the deck is now pretty viable. One game I kicked Rite of Replication on Zada, getting 5 copies of every creature I own. I won the same turn.
The deck's fun, runs some Changelings for Reaper King and it turns Clones and one-off copy effects like Twinflame into Vindicates if you need them.
I've also been running a 5-color Walls list and its been... fun. The deck actually becomes pretty viable. Cards like Ensnaring Bridge + Doran effectively make you the only person who can deal damage at the table, and it includes other wincons like Door to Nothingness, Progenitus (the Commander), or Phenax.
So not including Elves, Slivers, Beasts or Goblins, I would look hard at the following:
Azami, Lady of Scrolls Wizards: This is a very powerful deck; so much so that I would make sure that your playgroup is sufficiently powered to handle it before putting it together. It is surprisingly cheap to put together too if you are willing to forgo some blue staples like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Cryptic Command, and Snapcaster Mage.
Seton, Krosan Protector Druids: I mention this because there is a lot of overlap with Elves so you may already have a lot of the cards, but a well-put-together Druids list can be very explosive and a lot of fun to play.
Reaper King "Scarecrows": I think someone else mentioned this one earlier, but running Changelings as Vindicate on-demand is rather nice. Throw in a few of the other best tribal cards like Sea Gate Loremaster, Scourge of Valkas, and Horde of Notions and you have a sort-of "tribal all-stars" list, which is something that might appeal to your tribal sensibilities.
Riku of Two Reflections Elementals: A lot of people automatically want to gravitate to playing Horde of Notions as the commander of an Elemental tribal deck, but I think Riku is the best option. All the best Elementals are in URG in my opinion, so you don't lose a lot by dropping the black or white (Reveillark and Mirror Entity being notable exceptions). Plus, the Riku copy ability plays really well with Evoke and the ETB abilities of Elementals in general.
Olivia Voldaren Vampires: I think she's the best combination of good vampire ability plus access to both red and black.
Lovisa Coldeyes Barbarians/Warriors/Berserkers: Definitely one of the more off-the-wall suggestions, you can have a lot of fun just looking at all the various options.
Rosheen Meanderer Hydras: There are enough X-spell Hydras to make this a thing now, not to mention that there are just plenty of good X-spells out there in general.
Doran, the Siege Tower Treefolk: Can be really interesting in making some otherwise unplayable cards really good.
Kaalia of the Vast Angels/Demons/Dragons: All very good tribes and Kaalia is a known powerhouse.
So not including Elves, Slivers, Beasts or Goblins, I would look hard at the following:
Azami, Lady of Scrolls Wizards: This is a very powerful deck; so much so that I would make sure that your playgroup is sufficiently powered to handle it before putting it together. It is surprisingly cheap to put together too if you are willing to forgo some blue staples like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Cryptic Command, and Snapcaster Mage.
Seton, Krosan Protector Druids: I mention this because there is a lot of overlap with Elves so you may already have a lot of the cards, but a well-put-together Druids list can be very explosive and a lot of fun to play.
Reaper King "Scarecrows": I think someone else mentioned this one earlier, but running Changelings as Vindicate on-demand is rather nice. Throw in a few of the other best tribal cards like Sea Gate Loremaster, Scourge of Valkas, and Horde of Notions and you have a sort-of "tribal all-stars" list, which is something that might appeal to your tribal sensibilities.
Riku of Two Reflections Elementals: A lot of people automatically want to gravitate to playing Horde of Notions as the commander of an Elemental tribal deck, but I think Riku is the best option. All the best Elementals are in URG in my opinion, so you don't lose a lot by dropping the black or white (Reveillark and Mirror Entity being notable exceptions). Plus, the Riku copy ability plays really well with Evoke and the ETB abilities of Elementals in general.
Olivia Voldaren Vampires: I think she's the best combination of good vampire ability plus access to both red and black.
Lovisa Coldeyes Barbarians/Warriors/Berserkers: Definitely one of the more off-the-wall suggestions, you can have a lot of fun just looking at all the various options.
Rosheen Meanderer Hydras: There are enough X-spell Hydras to make this a thing now, not to mention that there are just plenty of good X-spells out there in general.
Doran, the Siege Tower Treefolk: Can be really interesting in making some otherwise unplayable cards really good.
Kaalia of the Vast Angels/Demons/Dragons: All very good tribes and Kaalia is a known powerhouse.
I think the major part of Azami that is a big turn off is that it is just so powerful... I don't think my playgroup would be able to handle the monster. I do like the Reaper King idea though!
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Unfortunately the best bird commander is banned in 1v1 (Deveri) so you'll have to go with the inferior Kangee, aerie keeper or pick a Bant general at random (Probably Jenara, Asura of War)
I'll second Anowon, the Ruin Sage. I can appreciate your desire to include red for the Innistrad vampires, but mono black gives you the benefit of mana doublers, and a Stax effect in the command zone is very powerful.
So not including Elves, Slivers, Beasts or Goblins, I would look hard at the following:
Azami, Lady of Scrolls Wizards: This is a very powerful deck; so much so that I would make sure that your playgroup is sufficiently powered to handle it before putting it together. It is surprisingly cheap to put together too if you are willing to forgo some blue staples like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Cryptic Command, and Snapcaster Mage.
Seton, Krosan Protector Druids: I mention this because there is a lot of overlap with Elves so you may already have a lot of the cards, but a well-put-together Druids list can be very explosive and a lot of fun to play.
Reaper King "Scarecrows": I think someone else mentioned this one earlier, but running Changelings as Vindicate on-demand is rather nice. Throw in a few of the other best tribal cards like Sea Gate Loremaster, Scourge of Valkas, and Horde of Notions and you have a sort-of "tribal all-stars" list, which is something that might appeal to your tribal sensibilities.
Riku of Two Reflections Elementals: A lot of people automatically want to gravitate to playing Horde of Notions as the commander of an Elemental tribal deck, but I think Riku is the best option. All the best Elementals are in URG in my opinion, so you don't lose a lot by dropping the black or white (Reveillark and Mirror Entity being notable exceptions). Plus, the Riku copy ability plays really well with Evoke and the ETB abilities of Elementals in general.
Olivia Voldaren Vampires: I think she's the best combination of good vampire ability plus access to both red and black.
Lovisa Coldeyes Barbarians/Warriors/Berserkers: Definitely one of the more off-the-wall suggestions, you can have a lot of fun just looking at all the various options.
Rosheen Meanderer Hydras: There are enough X-spell Hydras to make this a thing now, not to mention that there are just plenty of good X-spells out there in general.
Doran, the Siege Tower Treefolk: Can be really interesting in making some otherwise unplayable cards really good.
Kaalia of the Vast Angels/Demons/Dragons: All very good tribes and Kaalia is a known powerhouse.
I think the major part of Azami that is a big turn off is that it is just so powerful... I don't think my playgroup would be able to handle the monster. I do like the Reaper King idea though!
i think azami is a tiny bit overblown in terms of power level. i dont really know why, but everyone seems to be under the impression that shes nearly indestructible or something. its just that most decks arent built to deal with how azami decks generally work so they FEEL unstoppable. but that being said, if you dont feel your group is ready for it, its a good judgement call to just avoid it.
kaalia of the vast is also brilliant as the head of cleric tribal seeing as she is a cleric herself. also, it puts your opponents on tilt if they dont see dragons, demons and angels going their way.
Lovisa Coldeyes Barbarians/Warriors/Berserkers: Definitely one of the more off-the-wall suggestions, you can have a lot of fun just looking at all the various options.
Who needs one tribe when you can have three?
She's a fun general, and she terms top be sorely underestimated. Her tribes have also gotten some good creatures laltely, like Flamerush Rider and Archetype of Aggression.
Lovisa Coldeyes Barbarians/Warriors/Berserkers: Definitely one of the more off-the-wall suggestions, you can have a lot of fun just looking at all the various options.
Who needs one tribe when you can have three?
She's a fun general, and she terms top be sorely underestimated. Her tribes have also gotten some good creatures laltely, like Flamerush Rider and Archetype of Aggression.
Lovisa Coldeyes Barbarians/Warriors/Berserkers: Definitely one of the more off-the-wall suggestions, you can have a lot of fun just looking at all the various options.
Who needs one tribe when you can have three?
She's a fun general, and she terms top be sorely underestimated. Her tribes have also gotten some good creatures laltely, like Flamerush Rider and Archetype of Aggression.
I can second That She is a fantastic commander. I also play the deck and its a ton of fun to play. It is the closest I've seen a deck get to red deck wins while still playing like a fun tribal deck.
Otherwise I play several Tribal decks that I love:
He Who Hungers: Monoblack control with Spirits Tribal theme! Gotta love a classic deck style with stuff like Bloodghast, Nether traitor to Thoughtseize peoples hands away. I honestly love this deck a lot and find it is a lot of fun to pilot.
Sek'kuar, Deathkeeper: Jund Shamans! I fricking love this deck. It snowballs soo hard that it is unreal. Do you want 60+ mana on turn 4 without being infinite? Sek'kuar is your man.
Elementals is probably my second choice for competitive tribe besides the obvious Wizards and Elves. You can probably salvage a semi-competitive Horde of Notions elementals deck. Zombies and "competitive" I'm not sure belong in the same sentence but you could try. Same with Dragons. I don't think any of these other tribes are options except I guess Goblins, maybe.
Also, worthy of note... Spirit tribal with Iname, Death Aspect is a competitive 1v1 deck. Very
Any love for Fungus tribal? Thelon of Havenwood is best, if not the only option. Just like Weebos mentioned earlier, I built the deck as a joke, but it ended up being quite good.
OP, I have a quite competitive zombie deck with Lord of Tresserhorn at the helm, primer link in my signature.
It's pretty competitive so it's not entirely on-theme, but with some changes I'd imagine you could make it more purely zombie tribal and still keep a lot of the power.
So, I looked deeper into this: The correct answer is yes and no!
Yes, the Rite of Replication will see a Scion of the Ur-Dragon, which holds a shield with Scourge of Valkas up. It puts therefore 5 Scourge of Valkas into play for a total of: #dragons * #triggers = 6 * (6 * 5) = 180 damage.
Now if Scourge of Valkas was legendary, e.g. via Leyline of Singularity, we would still have 30 triggers on the stack. However, the number of dragons would be checked upon resolution of the triggers and at this point we should have only 1 dragon remaining, thanks to the state-based action (if I understand this correctly), so: #dragons * #triggers = 1 * (6 * 5) = 30 damage.
Still something wrong?
Yes. Once all other players are landless or subdued, the deck doesn't look so funny anymore...
I need to disagree. Best dragon tribal general is Atarka, world render. Without questions, she is the strongest.
Scion of the Ur-Dragon > all other dragons. Just sayin'.
Sedris, the Traitor King is an underrated utilitarian zombie general. I built the deck to be a more casual build, but it wound up being decently competitive. I run a Nekusar wheels subtheme because filling my yard synergizes with everything else in the deck and I can do it while drawing less hate than if Nekusar is my general, and I wound up with a chunky midrange build that almost feels like a goodstuff deck despite being completely tribal.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
The deck's fun, runs some Changelings for Reaper King and it turns Clones and one-off copy effects like Twinflame into Vindicates if you need them.
I've also been running a 5-color Walls list and its been... fun. The deck actually becomes pretty viable. Cards like Ensnaring Bridge + Doran effectively make you the only person who can deal damage at the table, and it includes other wincons like Door to Nothingness, Progenitus (the Commander), or Phenax.
EDH
Works in Progress:
WUControlling the ElementsUW C Perfect Insanity C B Anowon, the Ruin Sage B BLiliana, Heretical HealerB
Pauper EDH:
WTallowispW Voltron
Retired:
RDaretti, Scrap SavantR
Azami, Lady of Scrolls Wizards: This is a very powerful deck; so much so that I would make sure that your playgroup is sufficiently powered to handle it before putting it together. It is surprisingly cheap to put together too if you are willing to forgo some blue staples like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Cryptic Command, and Snapcaster Mage.
Seton, Krosan Protector Druids: I mention this because there is a lot of overlap with Elves so you may already have a lot of the cards, but a well-put-together Druids list can be very explosive and a lot of fun to play.
Reaper King "Scarecrows": I think someone else mentioned this one earlier, but running Changelings as Vindicate on-demand is rather nice. Throw in a few of the other best tribal cards like Sea Gate Loremaster, Scourge of Valkas, and Horde of Notions and you have a sort-of "tribal all-stars" list, which is something that might appeal to your tribal sensibilities.
Riku of Two Reflections Elementals: A lot of people automatically want to gravitate to playing Horde of Notions as the commander of an Elemental tribal deck, but I think Riku is the best option. All the best Elementals are in URG in my opinion, so you don't lose a lot by dropping the black or white (Reveillark and Mirror Entity being notable exceptions). Plus, the Riku copy ability plays really well with Evoke and the ETB abilities of Elementals in general.
Olivia Voldaren Vampires: I think she's the best combination of good vampire ability plus access to both red and black.
Lovisa Coldeyes Barbarians/Warriors/Berserkers: Definitely one of the more off-the-wall suggestions, you can have a lot of fun just looking at all the various options.
Rosheen Meanderer Hydras: There are enough X-spell Hydras to make this a thing now, not to mention that there are just plenty of good X-spells out there in general.
Doran, the Siege Tower Treefolk: Can be really interesting in making some otherwise unplayable cards really good.
Kaalia of the Vast Angels/Demons/Dragons: All very good tribes and Kaalia is a known powerhouse.
There are some other ones that aren't necessarily powerful, but can be interesting to build; Seshiro the Anointed Snakes, Nemata, Grove guardian Saprolings, Balthor the Defiled Minions, Chainer, Dementia Master Nightmares, Marrow-Gnawer Rats, etc.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Some great suggestions and thoughts, thanks! (:
I think the major part of Azami that is a big turn off is that it is just so powerful... I don't think my playgroup would be able to handle the monster. I do like the Reaper King idea though!
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Unfortunately the best bird commander is banned in 1v1 (Deveri) so you'll have to go with the inferior Kangee, aerie keeper or pick a Bant general at random (Probably Jenara, Asura of War)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/511391-derevi-empyrial-tactician-you-cannot-fight-the
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I'll second Anowon, the Ruin Sage. I can appreciate your desire to include red for the Innistrad vampires, but mono black gives you the benefit of mana doublers, and a Stax effect in the command zone is very powerful.
i think azami is a tiny bit overblown in terms of power level. i dont really know why, but everyone seems to be under the impression that shes nearly indestructible or something. its just that most decks arent built to deal with how azami decks generally work so they FEEL unstoppable. but that being said, if you dont feel your group is ready for it, its a good judgement call to just avoid it.
kaalia of the vast is also brilliant as the head of cleric tribal seeing as she is a cleric herself. also, it puts your opponents on tilt if they dont see dragons, demons and angels going their way.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
She's a fun general, and she terms top be sorely underestimated. Her tribes have also gotten some good creatures laltely, like Flamerush Rider and Archetype of Aggression.
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I can second That She is a fantastic commander. I also play the deck and its a ton of fun to play. It is the closest I've seen a deck get to red deck wins while still playing like a fun tribal deck.
Otherwise I play several Tribal decks that I love:
He Who Hungers: Monoblack control with Spirits Tribal theme! Gotta love a classic deck style with stuff like Bloodghast, Nether traitor to Thoughtseize peoples hands away. I honestly love this deck a lot and find it is a lot of fun to pilot.
Sek'kuar, Deathkeeper: Jund Shamans! I fricking love this deck. It snowballs soo hard that it is unreal. Do you want 60+ mana on turn 4 without being infinite? Sek'kuar is your man.
Haakon, Stromgald Scourge: Esper Knights tribal! oh wait my commander is actually Ertai, the Corrupted but Haakon functions as the commander
Also, worthy of note... Spirit tribal with Iname, Death Aspect is a competitive 1v1 deck. Very
Oh god... That looks like so much fun!
Another vote for Gisa in zombie tribal too!
WUBRG Sliver Queen 5 Color Super Friend Tokens GRBUW
RRR Zada, Hedron GrinderJohnny RedRRR
But there's no flavor!
Flavor is far more important than power.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
It's pretty competitive so it's not entirely on-theme, but with some changes I'd imagine you could make it more purely zombie tribal and still keep a lot of the power.
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Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
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Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears