There are a handful of people talking about Seize the Day being the absolute nuts with this guy if you can give him Vigilance (Batterskull, perhaps?) - Sure, I'll have an extra combat step for every creature I control. (Two, if you flash it back).
Ah, nice! I didn't think about taking advantage of splice onto arcane. That makes things much more interesting, and potentially viable as a combo.
Well, kind of.
First, there are no good splice cards other than the ones I mentioned (I don't see Glacial Ray or Strange Inversion working out, though Through the Breach post-cantrip might bear some fruit)
Second, there's no Reiterate shenanigans, because you're not 'casting' more spells at Zada, so you can't go infinite with Desperate Ritual in any way. It's a closed system, even if Overblaze can give it an incredible top end.
I think the good part about splice is that even if you can't splice all three together (from mana constraints, maybe?), you could splice Into the Fray onto Desperate Ritual, and then with the spare mana, Overblaze onto Into the Fray.
In any case, I think copying Zada's trigger with Strionic Resonator could push the top end of things also.
Edit: Firecat Blitz could make tokens, esp. with the flashback payment leaving a lot of mana open for shenanigans. Ib Halfheart also has the mountains to tokens trading feature.
Sphinx-Bone Wand seems like awesome addition as does Mirari, copy the spell that targeted Zada, and target him again. Also Fling is great counter play to wiping the board.
Edit: Fling won't work it doesn't target. Is there any thing similar to it that does?
Sphinx-Bone Wand seems like awesome addition as does Mirari, copy the spell that targeted Zada, and target him again. Also Fling is great counter play to wiping the board.
Edit: Fling won't work it doesn't target. Is there any thing similar to it that does?
Bone Wand and Mirari don't do anything with Zada.
No, to my knowledge the only cards even close to fling that target have two targets, so Zada won't copy them.
Darn, Chandra's ignition isn't as good as I thought. I'll take it off the synergy list. Fiery Gambit! Wow, I thought people were just suggesting it because it was a pet card or something, but wow did I miss the interesting synergy this card has! Zada makes this card a literal gambit, how interesting! The ways to use this card all of the sudden become much more complex. Are you going to go for 2 successful flips for each creature to try and finish off your opponent's life totals? Or are you going to get greedy for the draw nine effect? It's also some consolation when you lose to know that it won't be dealing 3 damage to your creature. Maybe you want to go for 3 flips with the higher value creatures, and 2 flips with the token fodder? This is all of the sudden a much more interesting card in a Zada commander deck. Definitely going on the list!
Lightning Storm Again, another incredible complex card within this deck! Maybe all the mega cantrips have left you with a hand full of lands? Go for the final blow at an opponent! Political too, maybe you're just a little but short on damage to kill an opponent, other players might help you out if the biggest threat on the table's life is on the line. Or maybe someone will just steal it to knock a big creature off the board, which most likely won't be us! Play it when someone is about to combo off, even if you don't have enough lands in hand to redirect all them, if it's a win or lose situation, I'm sure your opponent's will discard all their lands to prevent someone from winning with that resolving Goblin cannon. Definitely going on the list. This is starting to look more like a chaos build XD.
To be honest after going over this thread so far, there isn't really any strong synergy between what Zada is offering and what he is capable of providing as a commander.
I see the potential to draw lots of cards with the cantrip spells, but you are now mixing token creation or mass creatures with cantrip spells. What is the end-game goal for all of this?
I think it would be a nice inclusion in the 99 of another deck that deploys combat trick spells. As a commander he seems to only represent any sort of impact by making seize the day/fatal frenzy/rush of blood and other combat boosting spells useful for an entire army. This seems to be possible around turn--4 to turn-6(ish) for any meaningful offense to take place.
Since he is coming out at 4cmc he is too slow for most aggressive strategies. An average Krenko design would be able to consistently create a more meaningful board presence with little build-around-me cards filling out the deck. So that makes Zada as a commander what, mid-range agro with combat tricks? This is where I would prefer to see Urabrask as a commander.
Too underwhelming. Not worth the effort to brew, unless there is some unrealized combo potential that is reliable for mono-red that I'm missing.
None of those cards work with Zada, to a good extent. Soulblast doesn't work as it makes you sacrifice Zada and all of your creatures as an additional cost, meaning that zada isn't around to target anymore. Fling and Goblin Grenade work similarly, but you'd have to sacrifice a different creature in order to target Zada, which in turn shoots all of your creatures for damage. You can't shoot your board of creatures at someone with any of these cards. Soul's Fire can't be copied by Zada because it has more than one target.
To be honest after going over this thread so far, there isn't really any strong synergy between what Zada is offering and what he is capable of providing as a commander.
I see the potential to draw lots of cards with the cantrip spells, but you are now mixing token creation or mass creatures with cantrip spells. What is the end-game goal for all of this?
I think it would be a nice inclusion in the 99 of another deck that deploys combat trick spells. As a commander he seems to only represent any sort of impact by making seize the day/fatal frenzy/rush of blood and other combat boosting spells useful for an entire army. This seems to be possible around turn--4 to turn-6(ish) for any meaningful offense to take place.
Since he is coming out at 4cmc he is too slow for most aggressive strategies. An average Krenko design would be able to consistently create a more meaningful board presence with little build-around-me cards filling out the deck. So that makes Zada as a commander what, mid-range agro with combat tricks? This is where I would prefer to see Urabrask as a commander.
Too underwhelming. Not worth the effort to brew, unless there is some unrealized combo potential that is reliable for mono-red that I'm missing.
I don't know if I can agree with this. While Zada isn't cutthroat by any means, being able to instantly double your forces can easily lead to alpha strike scenarios, as can suddenly doubling everyone's power.
Janky, but Arcbond, Blasphemous Act, and Zada pretty much draws the game if you all have about the same amount of life.
I do agree with the sentiment that he would be better in someone else. I tried a Radha, Heir to Keld deck that tried to take advantage of her ability to use the mana she generated to get "free" pumps, so I might have to try it again with Zada.
Those spells won't work; Soul's Fire targets two things (The creature you want to hit someone with and whomever your hitting), and in order for Goblin Grenade/Fling to work you would have to TARGET Zada, meaning your board would be wiped, not the enemy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I know Soulblast wouldn't work specifically in this deck, but I'm pretty sure the other cards I mentioned would work. The idea would be to blow up all of my own guys to deal damage to players, essentially turning a whole board of goblin tokens into goblin grenades. Yes, the first spell would have to target Zada, and for grenade and fling I'd have to sac him, but I believe his ability would still go off. Do I have the sequencing wrong?
If I ever get around to building that Anax and Cymedespellslinging heroes deck Zada would slot right in. Speaking of which, red's heroic cards aren't directly a combo with Zada but you should be able to trigger them a lot in a Zada deck.
I know Soulblast wouldn't work specifically in this deck, but I'm pretty sure the other cards I mentioned would work. The idea would be to blow up all of my own guys to deal damage to players, essentially turning a whole board of goblin tokens into goblin grenades. Yes, the first spell would have to target Zada, and for grenade and fling I'd have to sac him, but I believe his ability would still go off. Do I have the sequencing wrong?
You have the sequencing wrong. Neither Goblin Grenade nor Fling target Zada if you want to sacrifice her to them. What you can do is sacrifice another goblin, hit Zada with Goblin Grenade and deal 5 damage to each creature you control (remember, Zada only shares spells amongst your creatures). You'd need some more set-up cards to make that useful, but it's at least a legal line of play.
It is indeed disappointing that Zada isn't a complete functional reprint of Ink-Treader Nephilim - even if it were monoR. It would've been ridiculously broken to just spam Act of Treason effects, lol.
I think that Zada can simply lend itself as an alpha strike commander. Though it takes too long to set up for a monoR deck that wants to specialize in combat antics, I feel that Zada can be much more useful as a lieutenant to Krenko, Mob Boss. That can totally be nuts.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Also, if you wanna get rid of all of your opponent's creatures, cast Twist Allegiance before you cast Zada. Then burn Zada, lol. Another cool thing with Twist Allegiance is to cast Stun beforehand. You draw a ton of cards, steal all of an opponent's creatures, leaving him/her with a bunch of creatures that can't block. Then, even if the player dies afterwards, you get all of your creatures back. Twist Allegiance is such a monumental, out-of-the-box wincon with Zada!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
How does the ability interact with Grip of Chaos?
Edit
I think it works. Copies of spells are spells, and put on the stack.
So with Grip of chaos out, I think you can turn any spell that targets a token into a spell that might target a player. Even better if you can eliminate token targets before the Grip trigger resolved.
There are a handful of people talking about Seize the Day being the absolute nuts with this guy if you can give him Vigilance (Batterskull, perhaps?) - Sure, I'll have an extra combat step for every creature I control. (Two, if you flash it back).
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I think Zada could be ok as a general, but I think it would play more of a combo type deck similar to a lot of blue decks. Basically just load the deck with Cantrips and cards like Titan's Strength that have scry for draw and topdeck fixing with a bunch of token making cards and draw most of the deck. I really can't see this played any other way with just mono-Red. Things like Heat Shimmer are really good for Zada, but most of those are already really good in mono-red anyway.
Into the Fray with Desperate Ritual spliced on for 3n mana.
Into the Fray with Overblaze to do modify damage by n^2.
... where n is the number of creatures you have.
Splice them all together for a sick Comet Storm, also.
Edit: If we weren't in monored, I'm fairly sure this would take no effort to break at all.
Edit2: Comet Storm does not work with Overblaze. Maybe tokens with Reckless Charge is something that would work.
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
Seriph0 on cockatrice
EDH Decks
WBGKaradorWBG
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
First, there are no good splice cards other than the ones I mentioned (I don't see Glacial Ray or Strange Inversion working out, though Through the Breach post-cantrip might bear some fruit)
Second, there's no Reiterate shenanigans, because you're not 'casting' more spells at Zada, so you can't go infinite with Desperate Ritual in any way. It's a closed system, even if Overblaze can give it an incredible top end.
I think the good part about splice is that even if you can't splice all three together (from mana constraints, maybe?), you could splice Into the Fray onto Desperate Ritual, and then with the spare mana, Overblaze onto Into the Fray.
In any case, I think copying Zada's trigger with Strionic Resonator could push the top end of things also.
Edit: Firecat Blitz could make tokens, esp. with the flashback payment leaving a lot of mana open for shenanigans. Ib Halfheart also has the mountains to tokens trading feature.
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
Zada can't copy this as zada isn't the only target of that spell.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Edit: Fling won't work it doesn't target. Is there any thing similar to it that does?
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer - Group Hug
Aurelia, the Warleader - Multi-Attack step aggro
Karona, False God - Your spells are my spells
Glissa, the Traitor - Artifact Toolbox
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/630958-zada-storming-horde
Bone Wand and Mirari don't do anything with Zada.
No, to my knowledge the only cards even close to fling that target have two targets, so Zada won't copy them.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Mirari doesn't but Sphinx Bone Wand is more of a bonus card because of all the instants and sorceries you're casting.
Fiery Gambit! Wow, I thought people were just suggesting it because it was a pet card or something, but wow did I miss the interesting synergy this card has! Zada makes this card a literal gambit, how interesting! The ways to use this card all of the sudden become much more complex. Are you going to go for 2 successful flips for each creature to try and finish off your opponent's life totals? Or are you going to get greedy for the draw nine effect? It's also some consolation when you lose to know that it won't be dealing 3 damage to your creature. Maybe you want to go for 3 flips with the higher value creatures, and 2 flips with the token fodder? This is all of the sudden a much more interesting card in a Zada commander deck. Definitely going on the list!
Lightning Storm Again, another incredible complex card within this deck! Maybe all the mega cantrips have left you with a hand full of lands? Go for the final blow at an opponent! Political too, maybe you're just a little but short on damage to kill an opponent, other players might help you out if the biggest threat on the table's life is on the line. Or maybe someone will just steal it to knock a big creature off the board, which most likely won't be us! Play it when someone is about to combo off, even if you don't have enough lands in hand to redirect all them, if it's a win or lose situation, I'm sure your opponent's will discard all their lands to prevent someone from winning with that resolving Goblin cannon. Definitely going on the list. This is starting to look more like a chaos build XD.
strionic resonatorThis sounds like madness.
I see the potential to draw lots of cards with the cantrip spells, but you are now mixing token creation or mass creatures with cantrip spells. What is the end-game goal for all of this?
I think it would be a nice inclusion in the 99 of another deck that deploys combat trick spells. As a commander he seems to only represent any sort of impact by making seize the day/fatal frenzy/rush of blood and other combat boosting spells useful for an entire army. This seems to be possible around turn--4 to turn-6(ish) for any meaningful offense to take place.
Since he is coming out at 4cmc he is too slow for most aggressive strategies. An average Krenko design would be able to consistently create a more meaningful board presence with little build-around-me cards filling out the deck. So that makes Zada as a commander what, mid-range agro with combat tricks? This is where I would prefer to see Urabrask as a commander.
Too underwhelming. Not worth the effort to brew, unless there is some unrealized combo potential that is reliable for mono-red that I'm missing.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
I'm glad this thread exists. When I saw Zada, I immediately thought of Soulblast, so I'm thinking of building on that theme with cards like:
Goblin Grenade
Fling
Soul's Fire
Are there any others that I am missing?
None of those cards work with Zada, to a good extent. Soulblast doesn't work as it makes you sacrifice Zada and all of your creatures as an additional cost, meaning that zada isn't around to target anymore. Fling and Goblin Grenade work similarly, but you'd have to sacrifice a different creature in order to target Zada, which in turn shoots all of your creatures for damage. You can't shoot your board of creatures at someone with any of these cards. Soul's Fire can't be copied by Zada because it has more than one target.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
I don't know if I can agree with this. While Zada isn't cutthroat by any means, being able to instantly double your forces can easily lead to alpha strike scenarios, as can suddenly doubling everyone's power.
Janky, but Arcbond, Blasphemous Act, and Zada pretty much draws the game if you all have about the same amount of life.
I do agree with the sentiment that he would be better in someone else. I tried a Radha, Heir to Keld deck that tried to take advantage of her ability to use the mana she generated to get "free" pumps, so I might have to try it again with Zada.
Hehe, Zada and Radha.
Those spells won't work; Soul's Fire targets two things (The creature you want to hit someone with and whomever your hitting), and in order for Goblin Grenade/Fling to work you would have to TARGET Zada, meaning your board would be wiped, not the enemy.
You have the sequencing wrong. Neither Goblin Grenade nor Fling target Zada if you want to sacrifice her to them. What you can do is sacrifice another goblin, hit Zada with Goblin Grenade and deal 5 damage to each creature you control (remember, Zada only shares spells amongst your creatures). You'd need some more set-up cards to make that useful, but it's at least a legal line of play.
I think that Zada can simply lend itself as an alpha strike commander. Though it takes too long to set up for a monoR deck that wants to specialize in combat antics, I feel that Zada can be much more useful as a lieutenant to Krenko, Mob Boss. That can totally be nuts.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Akki_Akki found some cards that be awesome for Zada.
Also, if you wanna get rid of all of your opponent's creatures, cast Twist Allegiance before you cast Zada. Then burn Zada, lol. Another cool thing with Twist Allegiance is to cast Stun beforehand. You draw a ton of cards, steal all of an opponent's creatures, leaving him/her with a bunch of creatures that can't block. Then, even if the player dies afterwards, you get all of your creatures back. Twist Allegiance is such a monumental, out-of-the-box wincon with Zada!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Edit
I think it works. Copies of spells are spells, and put on the stack.
So with Grip of chaos out, I think you can turn any spell that targets a token into a spell that might target a player. Even better if you can eliminate token targets before the Grip trigger resolved.
Akroma's Memorial? Cast memorial after you casted and flashedback a Seize the Day.
As for Grip of Chaos that can become utterly broken with cards like Act of Treason and the like. Stealing creatures at random is pretty awesome, lol.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Psychotic Fury doesn't do anything for Zada without something to give all of your creatures a second color.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade