A controversial card, at least during Zendikar. What do you guys think about Sorin in the modern Commander metagame?
The main source of grief is his second ability, setting a player to 10 life.
That is a pretty big life swing in Commander, especially if you target players who are sitting pretty at 40. Sorin is less abusable than his friend Magister Sphinx, but is he something you play?
Is he bad? 6 CMC and BBB is a pretty rough cost for a walker like him.
His ultimate is also Mindslaver, another controversial card in some circles. Does that push him over the edge into feel bad territory?
I have avoided playing him for a few years. He always struck me as "unfun", like Sundering Titan or Obliterate. I'm interested in revisiting him though.
Pretty tame in Multipayer. It's a blow out sometimes, but nothing I've ever been too worried about.
Life gain used to be absent from EDH except really casual slop games, but now I think most people build a little bit in there just to bolster their fetch lands, "pay life" effects, and the aggro half of midrange opponents. So, getting set to 10 sucks (about as much as anything that beats me), but it's not the end of the world or the game most of the time. And, if it is.... you got hit with a BBB3 Sorcery that didn't even finish the job, so you're fine.
I use him in Maga, Traitor to Mortals for his second ability. I don't think I've ever used his ultimate. Its certainly a strong card, but it costs 6 mana and still requires some sort of finisher to take someone out of the game. I can see the argument some people might make against using him but I don't think any any more unfair or unfun than running combo pieces.
In my experience, you can set a player's life to 10 and then maybe he'll lose, but then the other players take you out for playing Sorin Markov. He doesn't really do anything proactive for you except just flipping the bird to the deck you like the least at the table. He really is a 3BBB sorcery like Gals said as his +2 is really underwhelming and unless you've got some serious protection going on the table won't let you -3 twice.
Magister Sphinx is leagues better for being on a body and having 5 power to help finish off the player whose life you set.
The effect isn't good enough to offset the attention you'll get from the other players. It's intimidating enough that their reaction will be "This guy has to lose before he can do that again," but making a single player almost lose isn't enough to dig you out of that hole.
I have won plenty of games off him and have managed to not close out several after getting someone down to 10. This guys used to be thought of as a overpowered boogeyman in our group, but now that we have mostly powered up and blightsteel and combos are a regular occurrence, this guy is a lot less badass. I still love having him as an in a mono black deck. Sorin Markov into Gray Merchant of Asphodel is pretty sweet if you have any other sort of board presence going on.
I always thought that Sorin Markov and Magister sphinx were a bit boring. Yeah, it's good, but not good enough that i'd want to waste a deck space on. I've never really been killed by them, but they're more annoying than anything else. I tend to play decks that drop my life total fairly quick anyway.
I've always seen edh as a way to play all the cool cards that really don't get enough play in other formats cause they're "slow", "bad", or "strictly worse" than other cards. I enjoy playing cards like Darksteel Reactor, Food Chain, etc. I'd rather not play cards that try to shorten the game or lock a person out. I generally avoid cards like Sorin, Magister, Iona, etc that just try to knock out a player.
Kinda wished they used their more current template for these kind of abilities - same as with Serra Ascendant, for example. If he had said "Target player's life became half of their starting life", sure. It just feels a bit mean now.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Its a really lame move that does not necessarily kill someone. I dont see the point in griefing someone without killing them. Its really the sort of card you use if you don't feel you can win games as it can be aimed at the person who is winning but I don't see any reason to run these effects if you actually plan to win games because its the loser's vengeance sort of an effect. It doesn't win you games it just pisses people off and if you are in the lead its not really very good anyways.
Personally, I don't think its worth running. It doesn't win you the game and its about the same level of grief as Armageddon but it only hits one player. The effect also really irritates me because there is about a 90% probability that I am the target at any given table I am in regardless of the current board state just given who I am.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
While I find it to be a mean ability, it is a necessity. Sorin Markov, and by extension, Magister Sphinx, are counters to massive life gain decks. Need to shut down Felidar Sovereign? Marky's got you. Is that weird guy playing Trostani, Selesnya's Voice getting unkillable? Do a total life reset. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic just reached quad-digits? Tone him down a notch.
I dislike the card, but I see a strong use for it as a silver bullet against lifegain. A necessary evil, if you will. Because gearing up your commander for a voltron swing isn't always a good option.
Sorin sets one guy to 10 and then generally sits there doing nothing much until he gets zapped. At least Magister Sphinx can swing for 5 with evasion after setting someone to 10.
While I find it to be a mean ability, it is a necessity. Sorin Markov, and by extension, Magister Sphinx, are counters to massive life gain decks. Need to shut down Felidar Sovereign? Marky's got you. Is that weird guy playing Trostani, Selesnya's Voice getting unkillable? Do a total life reset. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic just reached quad-digits? Tone him down a notch.
I dislike the card, but I see a strong use for it as a silver bullet against lifegain. A necessary evil, if you will. Because gearing up your commander for a voltron swing isn't always a good option.
If someone in your area is making Felidar Soverign a legitimate win condition, or actually gaining unbeatable amounts of life with Trostani... congratulate them. They're doing something really special. Don't ruin that beauty with a mediocre sucker punch like Sorin.
In a format where infinite lifegain, mass land destruction, consistent turn 3 wins and combo reigns supreme, there is nothing wrong with sorin. I'd posit that sorin is not good enough to run (magister sphinx being an exception because of entomb + reanimate shenanigans) as by turn 6 against any top tier deck you have already lost. I advise not to feel bad for playing him, but to feel bad for players who haven't already ended/controlled the game (or made good decks) and allowed you to cast him.
As for just "kitchen table" games where people are running vanilla generals and such where people want each edh game to over 90 minutes, yes, he is a silver bullet that people hate. Probably would play something more subtle. Theres nothing wrong with playing spelljack or commandeer and abusing someone else's sorin in a kitchen table game. Heck, I'd shake that guy's hand.
While I find it to be a mean ability, it is a necessity. Sorin Markov, and by extension, Magister Sphinx, are counters to massive life gain decks. Need to shut down Felidar Sovereign? Marky's got you. Is that weird guy playing Trostani, Selesnya's Voice getting unkillable? Do a total life reset. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic just reached quad-digits? Tone him down a notch.
I dislike the card, but I see a strong use for it as a silver bullet against lifegain. A necessary evil, if you will. Because gearing up your commander for a voltron swing isn't always a good option.
If someone in your area is making Felidar Soverign a legitimate win condition, or actually gaining unbeatable amounts of life with Trostani... congratulate them. They're doing something really special. Don't ruin that beauty with a mediocre sucker punch like Sorin.
Don't try to win the game. Ok. Understood.
Sorin is fine, as is anything else, if your playgroup can handle it. If your playgroup doesn't like these kinds of effects or if you don't like them, discuss it with them.
[EDH] It's built to be a casual format and to a specific vision, and if you don't like the vision, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to change to accommodate everyone. Big tent is not a goal.
Win with an actual win condition, don't just say "**** you" to the player using lifegain as a win condition, of all things. Saying Sorin is a counter to lifegain decks is... like clubbing a baby seal. Just don't do it.
Seriously, this card just isn't good. It's not a game winner, it's a cheap "haha" at target player. It's neither fun nor good.
One day I was hit twice by Sorin in different games....and I still won both of them. That pretty much tells you what I think of the card.
To be fair, one deck was a control build that apparently hadn't found its finisher yet, so I don't know why it would do this (definitely a missplay on their part) and in the other game I saw myself in danger so I formed a lock where opponents would never be able to attack again the turn afterwards.
Over all, if you're playing competitively this card is absolutely terrible. For casual games, meh?
Win with an actual win condition, don't just say "**** you" to the player using lifegain as a win condition, of all things. Saying Sorin is a counter to lifegain decks is... like clubbing a baby seal. Just don't do it.
Seriously, this card just isn't good. It's not a game winner, it's a cheap "haha" at target player. It's neither fun nor good.
I'm interested in how that is...
Maybe using Sorin on a lifegain player is like clubbing a baby gremlin seal that's just gone for its first swim.
Compared to Kaalia dropping a turn 3 kill with Master of Cruelties,, Sorin is pretty tame. He is a 6 mana sorcery speed, hurt but not kill card. Well within the power of most EDH metas.
While I find it to be a mean ability, it is a necessity. Sorin Markov, and by extension, Magister Sphinx, are counters to massive life gain decks. Need to shut down Felidar Sovereign? Marky's got you. Is that weird guy playing Trostani, Selesnya's Voice getting unkillable? Do a total life reset. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic just reached quad-digits? Tone him down a notch.
I dislike the card, but I see a strong use for it as a silver bullet against lifegain. A necessary evil, if you will. Because gearing up your commander for a voltron swing isn't always a good option.
There are many, many easier ways to shut down Felidar without a 6cmc sorcery speed card that doesn't actually deal with Felidar. Odds are, If Trostani's life total is enough to worry about, then the creatures they used to get that high are a much bigger concern and neither Sorin or Magister deals with that. Oloro getting into quad-digit life totals? How? are people just leaving him there to do as he pleases? There is no reason, ever, that people should get into quad-digit life totals without an infinite combo. Lifegain itself doesn't win games.
Win with an actual win condition, don't just say "**** you" to the player using lifegain as a win condition, of all things. Saying Sorin is a counter to lifegain decks is... like clubbing a baby seal. Just don't do it.
Seriously, this card just isn't good. It's not a game winner, it's a cheap "haha" at target player. It's neither fun nor good.
Sorin falls into that odd place where often the kind of playgroups where his power level fits are not the kind of playgroups that like this kind of effect.
And yeah, it's amazing how many people don't read Rain of Gore....
While I find it to be a mean ability, it is a necessity. Sorin Markov, and by extension, Magister Sphinx, are counters to massive life gain decks. Need to shut down Felidar Sovereign? Marky's got you. Is that weird guy playing Trostani, Selesnya's Voice getting unkillable? Do a total life reset. Oloro, Ageless Ascetic just reached quad-digits? Tone him down a notch.
I dislike the card, but I see a strong use for it as a silver bullet against lifegain. A necessary evil, if you will. Because gearing up your commander for a voltron swing isn't always a good option.
If someone in your area is making Felidar Soverign a legitimate win condition, or actually gaining unbeatable amounts of life with Trostani... congratulate them. They're doing something really special. Don't ruin that beauty with a mediocre sucker punch like Sorin.
There is so much wrong with this logic I can't even begin to explain why....
Mark here is an interesting card, though if you are playing him as a -3 engine, you're doing it wrong. Mark is more to be used to snipe utility creatures while netting you some extra life than just set someone to "Low, but not dead".
I have used his -3 to give an opponent life, so there's that, but that's one time in two years of playing EDH....
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Yep, sorry wrong card. Haven't played in a while, so the names of a lot of things still escape me. False cure is a thing, but i remember there being an enchantment that did something very similar that worked with the beacon. I'm off to search the gatherer for like an hour to figure out what card it was.
EDIT: Ok, not quite an hour. the card I was thinking of was Tainted Remedy.
Yep, sorry wrong card. Haven't played in a while, so the names of a lot of things still escape me. False cure is a thing, but i remember there being an enchantment that did something very similar that worked with the beacon. I'm off to search the gatherer for like an hour to figure out what card it was.
EDIT: Ok, not quite an hour. the card I was thinking of was Tainted Remedy.
A controversial card, at least during Zendikar. What do you guys think about Sorin in the modern Commander metagame?
The main source of grief is his second ability, setting a player to 10 life.
That is a pretty big life swing in Commander, especially if you target players who are sitting pretty at 40. Sorin is less abusable than his friend Magister Sphinx, but is he something you play?
Is he bad? 6 CMC and BBB is a pretty rough cost for a walker like him.
His ultimate is also Mindslaver, another controversial card in some circles. Does that push him over the edge into feel bad territory?
I have avoided playing him for a few years. He always struck me as "unfun", like Sundering Titan or Obliterate. I'm interested in revisiting him though.
What do you guys think of Sorin Markov?
The + is fair and so is the Ultimate (it is an Ultimate after all), but the - is just mean and pretty easily repeatable.
MuzzioU XenagosGR NahiriW GitrogGB MarathGRW MarchesaUBR JenaraGUW KarlovBW TazriWUBRG
Retired: RakdosBR
Life gain used to be absent from EDH except really casual slop games, but now I think most people build a little bit in there just to bolster their fetch lands, "pay life" effects, and the aggro half of midrange opponents. So, getting set to 10 sucks (about as much as anything that beats me), but it's not the end of the world or the game most of the time. And, if it is.... you got hit with a BBB3 Sorcery that didn't even finish the job, so you're fine.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Magister Sphinx is leagues better for being on a body and having 5 power to help finish off the player whose life you set.
The effect isn't good enough to offset the attention you'll get from the other players. It's intimidating enough that their reaction will be "This guy has to lose before he can do that again," but making a single player almost lose isn't enough to dig you out of that hole.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
UGUPrime Speaker Seamonster RampUGU
WUGDerevi Does NothingWUG
RRRFeldon's Lovely LadiesRRR
I've always seen edh as a way to play all the cool cards that really don't get enough play in other formats cause they're "slow", "bad", or "strictly worse" than other cards. I enjoy playing cards like Darksteel Reactor, Food Chain, etc. I'd rather not play cards that try to shorten the game or lock a person out. I generally avoid cards like Sorin, Magister, Iona, etc that just try to knock out a player.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Personally, I don't think its worth running. It doesn't win you the game and its about the same level of grief as Armageddon but it only hits one player. The effect also really irritates me because there is about a 90% probability that I am the target at any given table I am in regardless of the current board state just given who I am.
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[Modern] Allies
I dislike the card, but I see a strong use for it as a silver bullet against lifegain. A necessary evil, if you will. Because gearing up your commander for a voltron swing isn't always a good option.
-Commander-
UBGMill, Sidisi, and Other ShenanigansGBU
WUBRGShingeki no TazriGRBUW
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
If someone in your area is making Felidar Soverign a legitimate win condition, or actually gaining unbeatable amounts of life with Trostani... congratulate them. They're doing something really special. Don't ruin that beauty with a mediocre sucker punch like Sorin.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
As for just "kitchen table" games where people are running vanilla generals and such where people want each edh game to over 90 minutes, yes, he is a silver bullet that people hate. Probably would play something more subtle. Theres nothing wrong with playing spelljack or commandeer and abusing someone else's sorin in a kitchen table game. Heck, I'd shake that guy's hand.
Don't try to win the game. Ok. Understood.
Sorin is fine, as is anything else, if your playgroup can handle it. If your playgroup doesn't like these kinds of effects or if you don't like them, discuss it with them.
Seriously, this card just isn't good. It's not a game winner, it's a cheap "haha" at target player. It's neither fun nor good.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
To be fair, one deck was a control build that apparently hadn't found its finisher yet, so I don't know why it would do this (definitely a missplay on their part) and in the other game I saw myself in danger so I formed a lock where opponents would never be able to attack again the turn afterwards.
Over all, if you're playing competitively this card is absolutely terrible. For casual games, meh?
Seriph0 on cockatrice
EDH Decks
WBGKaradorWBG
I'm interested in how that is...
Maybe using Sorin on a lifegain player is like clubbing a baby gremlin seal that's just gone for its first swim.
MuzzioU XenagosGR NahiriW GitrogGB MarathGRW MarchesaUBR JenaraGUW KarlovBW TazriWUBRG
Retired: RakdosBR
There are many, many easier ways to shut down Felidar without a 6cmc sorcery speed card that doesn't actually deal with Felidar. Odds are, If Trostani's life total is enough to worry about, then the creatures they used to get that high are a much bigger concern and neither Sorin or Magister deals with that. Oloro getting into quad-digit life totals? How? are people just leaving him there to do as he pleases? There is no reason, ever, that people should get into quad-digit life totals without an infinite combo. Lifegain itself doesn't win games.
Yeah, I'd much rather play Rain of Gore... or Tainted Remedy and start shooting people with Beacon of Immortality. Lifegain is fun.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
And yeah, it's amazing how many people don't read Rain of Gore....
There is so much wrong with this logic I can't even begin to explain why....
Mark here is an interesting card, though if you are playing him as a -3 engine, you're doing it wrong. Mark is more to be used to snipe utility creatures while netting you some extra life than just set someone to "Low, but not dead".
I have used his -3 to give an opponent life, so there's that, but that's one time in two years of playing EDH....
Yep, sorry wrong card. Haven't played in a while, so the names of a lot of things still escape me. False cure is a thing, but i remember there being an enchantment that did something very similar that worked with the beacon. I'm off to search the gatherer for like an hour to figure out what card it was.
EDIT: Ok, not quite an hour. the card I was thinking of was Tainted Remedy.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
That card is just a few weeks old.
MuzzioU XenagosGR NahiriW GitrogGB MarathGRW MarchesaUBR JenaraGUW KarlovBW TazriWUBRG
Retired: RakdosBR