I am wanting to build a group hug deck with Braids, Conjurer Adept at the helm and I just had a few questions for you guys.
My current list of the deck is based around group card drawing and Leviathians as the go to fatties.
1. What cards work well for mono blue group hug?
2. What could be some of my wincons?
3. What makes a good group deck? (ex. not so chaotic its obnoxious but still provides a fun experience for the table.)
Thanks in advance for your help guys.
(Also note I play on a budget so when making card suggestions just keep that in mind.)
Group hug is one of those creations that takes existing engines and makes them go three times fast. Basically, REALLY not my style.
Against good decks, considering the amount of space you end up using on these effects, even if you spread things evenly, I can't imagine you ever being able to get rid of the last opponent if you are the only other player left.
1. Do not kingmake
2. Do not expect people to take it easy on you just because you're "hug," many people hate this archetype.
3. Play plenty of clone effects, they'll abuse Braids, so you should abuse their abuse.
4. Have outs, Cyclonic Rift + Windfall comes to mind (ah the memories...)
5. Be willing to abandon Mono Blue, this is not the best at Hug, it can't capitalize like others and does not have the best outs. That said, I love Braids and enjoyed building her.
6. Have fun. Seriously. Show people how much fun you're having, politics are your best friend here and visibly enjoying others having fun can be very helpful.
While I am a big fan of Braids I can't say I've ever considered using her with more "hug" effects. I also don't know if she can work on a budget since I also use her with Eldrazi titans and some other pricy cards to generate advantage off her ability.
As others have said, mono-U is not the best at group hug, but it can definitely be done if that's what you're looking for. Most of your effects in U will be draw like Kami of the Crescent Moon or Dictate of Kruphix. Obviously you can also play Howling Mine type artifacts also.
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EDH playing competitive Magic cast away
Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
I love how stax, combo, goodstuff, etc is considered fair, but group hug is for evil people
The key difference is that stax, combo, goodstuff, etc. actually try to win the game themselves, unlike group hug which more often than not turns into "well I can't win, but I'll give my best friend all the resources he needs so he'll always win and then I'll come in 2nd," aka kingmaking. And when that happens it sort of defeats the entire point of sitting down to play.
I can confirm this. Played in a group of 5 people with Azami. Now, my version is built to be more political in nature, but Braids grouphug made me draw Mind Over Matter and I comboed out and won like turn four. My deck wasn't designed to be that fast, but all of the free stuff she was giving me allowed it to go FTL.
The right way to play group hug is to try to win. As long as you're still doing that, you're doing it right.
A good group hug is the equal and opposite strategy of stax. Stax says "well, we're all sacrificing a permanent every turn, but I'm the only one with Bitterblossom in play, so everyone else hurts more." Group hug done right says "well, we're all drawing 5 cards a turn, but I'm the only one with the right deck to use all of those cards at once, so I benefit most." Giving people things isn't the worst strategy when done correctly. It's all about disrupting the flow of resources in such a way as to make your deck optimal and everyone else's suboptimal. The deck running all 7 drops can't do much with 3 extra cards a turn. The deck with all 1 drops and equipment can't use quadruple mana effectively. The goal is to build the deck that can get the full benefit of the global effects.
If you wanted to make something like Rosheen Meanderer / Mana Flare / x spells, that'd be pretty cool. If you're making Braids and letting people put things down for free, your free things ought to be better than your opponents. That's the most important thing. If you play group hug, give people free stuff, and then can't keep up because of your own cards, you've done it wrong. If you give people a pile of resources and then the person to your left wins every time, you may as well build a counterspell deck, pick one player to lose, and say "hey, at least I had an impact."
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
A little more about how I came about wanting to make this deck. I recently built a mono black erebos "group hate" deck based drain life spells so I wanted a deck that does the opposite. I have checked with my LGS crew and they are all for having a hug deck to play against. I am against kingmaking it drives me insane when ppl do that!
(sorry for not autocarding on wife's phone so it would take forever,)
The base card ideas for the deck:
Draw effects: Kami of the Cresent moon, well of ideas, and dictate of kruphix.
clone/theft: clone, rite of Replication, gather specimens,mind control, volition reins.
fatties:
pathrazer of ulumog, artisan of kozileck,inkwell Leviathian, stormtide Leviathian.
A little more about how I came about wanting to make this deck. I recently built a mono black erebos "group hate" deck based drain life spells so I wanted a deck that does the opposite. I have checked with my LGS crew and they are all for having a hug deck to play against. I am against kingmaking it drives me insane when ppl do that!
(sorry for not autocarding on wife's phone so it would take forever,)
The base card ideas for the deck:
Draw effects: Kami of the Cresent moon, well of ideas, and dictate of kruphix.
clone/theft: clone, rite of Replication, gather specimens,mind control, volition reins.
fatties:
pathrazer of ulumog, artisan of kozileck,inkwell Leviathian, stormtide Leviathian.
Reins of power, Rite of Replication, Clone Legion, and Blatant thieviery are good haymakers that can win you games. Gather Specimens has it's place (especially against token builds). Theft/Clone cards will probably be your win con unless you throw in a bunch of Eldrazi. Repeatable theft is great, and gets even better if you can get rid of their stuff. Vedalken Shackles is great in mono blue. Less used options include Callous Oppressor, who makes for some interesting politics, and Dominating Licid. Mimic Vat and Clones are great when you have tons of powerful things coming and going. Helm of Awakening generally makes people like you more. Just beware the dreaded Future Sight + Sensei's Divining Top combo it creates
For defense, you could always work with Illusionist's Gambit, Domineering Will. MindSlaver is a little more than crazy when you're giving people insane board presence, just try and resist the urge to lock someone out with it if you have Academy Ruins on line. This will print a target on your head, but if you're playing with people who hate group hug, your deck will already have done that before you play your first card. Cyclonic Rift needs no introduction, but both Ætherspouts and Polymorphist's Jest can hit people hard when they swing at you. Your whole goal is to try and make yourself less appealing to attack than your opponents. Curse of The Swine can be used to good effect when you have plenty of targets on board.
I'd avoid most Planewalkers as they usually point a target on your head- the exception being Jace Beleren. Group draw effects are great if used well. If you're getting your opponents to draw tons of cards, things like Consecrated sphinx might elicit groans, but Psychic Possession is usually overlooked and can be abused with cards like Temple Bell, Windfall and Time Spiral. Dakra Mystic is pretty cool as it lets everyone see what they're drawing or milling. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is another option.
If you don't want to go too counterspell heavy, you could always run things like Twincast, Redirect, Misdirection, etc. to either divert spells aimed at you, or copy that lethal Exsanguinate. If you plan on running any infinite mana shenanigans, you could always run some targeted X draw effects like Blue Sun's Zenith or Stroke of Genius to mill out an opponent in one go. Spelltwine can be a house depending on the spells that were played. Perplexing Chimera is pretty goofy, but can do some interesting things.
If you run a Trinket Mage package, it should include a Pithing Needle just in case your opponents wise up and start running things like Homeward Path. When you're stealing people's things, they're going to upset, so be sure to play with your words as much as your cards. If you're going to give people an advantage, just try and have a way to abuse that advantage, and don't get too salty if someone you just helped kills you- you're not immune to being attacked/killed because you're drawing people cards and letting them play crazy things.
Grouphug is bad and you should feel bad. Seriously, for most of us, you're right after the Hermit Druid guy. If he didn't win potentially on turn 3, we'd hit you first, just because grouphug players...don't seem to get the concept of competition.
Now, this doesn't mean you can't do things like Donate things that hurt their controller to us, just...don't try to avoid the fact that we are your opponents, and that, perforce, means we will attack you (and you will attack us) at some point in the game.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
My current list of the deck is based around group card drawing and Leviathians as the go to fatties.
1. What cards work well for mono blue group hug?
2. What could be some of my wincons?
3. What makes a good group deck? (ex. not so chaotic its obnoxious but still provides a fun experience for the table.)
Thanks in advance for your help guys.
(Also note I play on a budget so when making card suggestions just keep that in mind.)
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
If you must, monoblue isn't the best color for it.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Against good decks, considering the amount of space you end up using on these effects, even if you spread things evenly, I can't imagine you ever being able to get rid of the last opponent if you are the only other player left.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
lock enemy creatures ,clone yours ,clone their
play mana rocks, not creatures with her , sometimes its not worth to cast her, but people keep hands with her in mind.
have fun!
dont kingmake, win ~
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
2. Do not expect people to take it easy on you just because you're "hug," many people hate this archetype.
3. Play plenty of clone effects, they'll abuse Braids, so you should abuse their abuse.
4. Have outs, Cyclonic Rift + Windfall comes to mind (ah the memories...)
5. Be willing to abandon Mono Blue, this is not the best at Hug, it can't capitalize like others and does not have the best outs. That said, I love Braids and enjoyed building her.
6. Have fun. Seriously. Show people how much fun you're having, politics are your best friend here and visibly enjoying others having fun can be very helpful.
Good luck! : smileup:
Consider a large number of clones and theft effects to take advantage of greedy plays. Blatant Thievery, Sower of Temptation, and even good old Control Magic can work here. Be sure to play some bounce and artifacts to ramp. Finally, a couple locks or endgame setups like Archetype of Imagination + Stormtide Leviathan will be needed.
As others have said, mono-U is not the best at group hug, but it can definitely be done if that's what you're looking for. Most of your effects in U will be draw like Kami of the Crescent Moon or Dictate of Kruphix. Obviously you can also play Howling Mine type artifacts also.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Legacy: GWR Enchantress <--That's my banner! (lol tinypic removed it)
Casual: WB [[Primer]]Clerics Tribal; BU Affinity
EDH: ...U [[Primer]]Arcum Dagsson; BG Legal Stax; B Illegal Stax
Proxy: .WX TriniStax
Other stuff: [[Official]]Shuffling, Truth + Maths
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
I can confirm this. Played in a group of 5 people with Azami. Now, my version is built to be more political in nature, but Braids grouphug made me draw Mind Over Matter and I comboed out and won like turn four. My deck wasn't designed to be that fast, but all of the free stuff she was giving me allowed it to go FTL.
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
A good group hug is the equal and opposite strategy of stax. Stax says "well, we're all sacrificing a permanent every turn, but I'm the only one with Bitterblossom in play, so everyone else hurts more." Group hug done right says "well, we're all drawing 5 cards a turn, but I'm the only one with the right deck to use all of those cards at once, so I benefit most." Giving people things isn't the worst strategy when done correctly. It's all about disrupting the flow of resources in such a way as to make your deck optimal and everyone else's suboptimal. The deck running all 7 drops can't do much with 3 extra cards a turn. The deck with all 1 drops and equipment can't use quadruple mana effectively. The goal is to build the deck that can get the full benefit of the global effects.
If you wanted to make something like Rosheen Meanderer / Mana Flare / x spells, that'd be pretty cool. If you're making Braids and letting people put things down for free, your free things ought to be better than your opponents. That's the most important thing. If you play group hug, give people free stuff, and then can't keep up because of your own cards, you've done it wrong. If you give people a pile of resources and then the person to your left wins every time, you may as well build a counterspell deck, pick one player to lose, and say "hey, at least I had an impact."
(sorry for not autocarding on wife's phone so it would take forever,)
The base card ideas for the deck:
Draw effects: Kami of the Cresent moon, well of ideas, and dictate of kruphix.
clone/theft: clone, rite of Replication, gather specimens,mind control, volition reins.
fatties:
pathrazer of ulumog, artisan of kozileck,inkwell Leviathian, stormtide Leviathian.
Those are the main focuses of the deck.
(sorry for not autocarding on wife's phone so it would take forever,)
The base card ideas for the deck:
Draw effects: Kami of the Cresent moon, well of ideas, and dictate of kruphix.
clone/theft: clone, rite of Replication, gather specimens,mind control, volition reins.
fatties:
pathrazer of ulumog, artisan of kozileck,inkwell Leviathian, stormtide Leviathian.
Those are the main focuses of the deck.
For defense, you could always work with Illusionist's Gambit, Domineering Will. MindSlaver is a little more than crazy when you're giving people insane board presence, just try and resist the urge to lock someone out with it if you have Academy Ruins on line. This will print a target on your head, but if you're playing with people who hate group hug, your deck will already have done that before you play your first card. Cyclonic Rift needs no introduction, but both Ætherspouts and Polymorphist's Jest can hit people hard when they swing at you. Your whole goal is to try and make yourself less appealing to attack than your opponents. Curse of The Swine can be used to good effect when you have plenty of targets on board.
I'd avoid most Planewalkers as they usually point a target on your head- the exception being Jace Beleren. Group draw effects are great if used well. If you're getting your opponents to draw tons of cards, things like Consecrated sphinx might elicit groans, but Psychic Possession is usually overlooked and can be abused with cards like Temple Bell, Windfall and Time Spiral. Dakra Mystic is pretty cool as it lets everyone see what they're drawing or milling. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is another option.
If you don't want to go too counterspell heavy, you could always run things like Twincast, Redirect, Misdirection, etc. to either divert spells aimed at you, or copy that lethal Exsanguinate. If you plan on running any infinite mana shenanigans, you could always run some targeted X draw effects like Blue Sun's Zenith or Stroke of Genius to mill out an opponent in one go. Spelltwine can be a house depending on the spells that were played. Perplexing Chimera is pretty goofy, but can do some interesting things.
If you run a Trinket Mage package, it should include a Pithing Needle just in case your opponents wise up and start running things like Homeward Path. When you're stealing people's things, they're going to upset, so be sure to play with your words as much as your cards. If you're going to give people an advantage, just try and have a way to abuse that advantage, and don't get too salty if someone you just helped kills you- you're not immune to being attacked/killed because you're drawing people cards and letting them play crazy things.
Now, this doesn't mean you can't do things like Donate things that hurt their controller to us, just...don't try to avoid the fact that we are your opponents, and that, perforce, means we will attack you (and you will attack us) at some point in the game.
On phasing: