A discussion in the Modern forums about how Rest in Peace is (according to some) super OP because it does to the graveyard in one card and for two mana what Shatterstorm and Stony Silence do to an artifact deck for two cards and six mana. That made me want to play Rest in Peace all the more in EDH ... along with all the other cards that brutally hose particular archetypes.
So... there's Rest in Peace for graveyard decks. Humility for creature decks. Stony Silence for artifact decks. Blood Moon and Back to Basics for greedy manabase decks. What other cards just completely and utterly shut down archetypes that rely heavily on one card type, particularly if they don't pack versatile removal? I'm thinking this might all end up fitting together in a Jeskai or Esper enchantment-heavy deck, but I'm open to suggestions.
A discussion in the Modern forums about how Rest in Peace is (according to some) super OP because it does to the graveyard in one card and for two mana what Shatterstorm and Stony Silence do to an artifact deck for two cards and six mana. That made me want to play Rest in Peace all the more in EDH ... along with all the other cards that brutally hose particular archetypes.
So... there's Rest in Peace for graveyard decks. Humility for creature decks. Stony Silence for artifact decks. Blood Moon and Back to Basics for greedy manabase decks. What other cards just completely and utterly shut down archetypes that rely heavily on one card type, particularly if they don't pack versatile removal? I'm thinking this might all end up fitting together in a Jeskai or Esper enchantment-heavy deck, but I'm open to suggestions.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I'd actually argue that bojuka bog is more of a problem to graveyard-based decks than rest in peace. While Rest is much worse of an effect, Bog is nearly guaranteed to be in any deck that can run it, it's tutorable by a card that nearly every deck plays, and once it's in play other players can utilize it even if they don't have it in their deck/already used theirs.
Rest on the other hand is a spell that a player has to consciously include in their deck for the express purpose of hosing graveyard strategies (and is symmetrical so they might not even run it if they rely on their graveyard enough).
To put it another way, if I'm sitting down with one or more other black players, it's a forgone conclusion that at some point in the game a Bojuka Bog will ruin someone's graveyard. It's not all that uncommon to see two or three bogs triggers in one game, consistently. If I were to ever focus on the graveyard, it'd never go all-in because getting it exiled is almost guaranteed.
Rest in Peace is a trump card answer to graveyard. Bojuka Bog makes graveyard-dependent strategies a nonstarter.
I'd actually argue that bojuka bog is more of a problem to graveyard-based decks than rest in peace. While Rest is much worse of an effect, Bog is nearly guaranteed to be in any deck that can run it, it's tutorable by a card that nearly every deck plays, and once it's in play other players can utilize it even if they don't have it in their deck/already used theirs.
Rest on the other hand is a spell that a player has to consciously include in their deck for the express purpose of hosing graveyard strategies (and is symmetrical so they might not even run it if they rely on their graveyard enough).
To put it another way, if I'm sitting down with one or more other black players, it's a forgone conclusion that at some point in the game a Bojuka Bog will ruin someone's graveyard. It's not all that uncommon to see two or three bogs triggers in one game, consistently. If I were to ever focus on the graveyard, it'd never go all-in because getting it exiled is almost guaranteed.
Rest in Peace is a trump card answer to graveyard. Bojuka Bog makes graveyard-dependent strategies a nonstarter.
I actually disagree. RIP is a monster to play around because it nukes yards and also keeps it empty, forcing one to remove it before being permitted to use graveyards again. Bog has timing restrictions that certain decks can play around (only on main phases during your turn) as well as being a one-shot. However, if you're packing Knight of the Reliquary or Crop Rotation, then it becomes a much more attractive answer as you can slap down an uncounterable answer at instant speed.
However, I will say that it gets better the later the game gets, as graveyards are going to get bigger during that time. Really though, bog is just nice because the opportunity cost of running it is low.
My point is, Bog is so impactful because the opportunity cost is so low. There will be multiple bogs per game, often more than there are black players due to copy and bounce shenanigans. RiP isn't played as often and therefore you run into it less often.
RiP is good, I'm not debating that. But Bog is more worry some for a graveyard deck.
My point is, Bog is so impactful because the opportunity cost is so low. There will be multiple bogs per game, often more than there are black players due to copy and bounce shenanigans. RiP isn't played as often and therefore you run into it less often.
RiP is good, I'm not debating that. But Bog is more worry some for a graveyard deck.
It's an interesting debate, for sure. My problem with Bojuka Bog is that you could nuke the GY player with it during your turn, then he could EoT Entomb, untag, and Reanimate an Iona, Shield of Emeria, Sire of Insanity, or whatever else in your face. He couldn't do that without dealing with Rest in Peace first, in contrast.
The problem is, I really want to play a deck centered around Humility, which in turn renders all hatebears useless. I'm also not sure what color combo is best for abusing Humility. White is a given, for the card itself and all of white's other awesome control enchantments. There's several appealing bi-color and tri-color combinations.
Cards like Gloom hoze all white decks.
The card that is pacifism for all black creatures and Karma hozes all black decks.
The white enchantments that give protection from black or red to all creatures pretty much hoze those colors.
Carpet of Flowers hoses any deck with blue in it.
Honestly color hosers in the olden days were brutal.
Cards like Gloom hoze all white decks.
The card that is pacifism for all black creatures and Karma hozes all black decks.
The white enchantments that give protection from black or red to all creatures pretty much hoze those colors.
Carpet of Flowers hoses any deck with blue in it.
Honestly color hosers in the olden days were brutal.
Indeed, I played for a stretch in the late 90s, and I really miss the days where Sinkhole was considered printable Now they won't even print Stone Rain
Anywho, color hosers can be good... unless you sit down at a table that's not heavy on any particular one of those colors. I think I like Ruination effects for lands the best, as you're guaranteed to hurt multi-colored decks, and even get value off mono-colored decks important utility lands.
A discussion in the Modern forums about how Rest in Peace is (according to some) super OP because it does to the graveyard in one card and for two mana what Shatterstorm and Stony Silence do to an artifact deck for two cards and six mana. That made me want to play Rest in Peace all the more in EDH
So... there's Rest in Peace for graveyard decks. Humility for creature decks. Stony Silence for artifact decks. Blood Moon and Back to Basics for greedy manabase decks. What other cards just completely and utterly shut down archetypes that rely heavily on one card type, particularly if they don't pack versatile removal? I'm thinking this might all end up fitting together in a Jeskai or Esper enchantment-heavy deck, but I'm open to suggestions.
Thanks!
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Cursed Totem/Damping Matrix/Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Angel of Jubilation
Gaddock Teeg
Titania's Song/Energy Flux/Kataki, War's Wage
Aura of Silence/Presence of the Master
Hall of Gemstone for multicolour decks, especially ones that fold if they can't get thier multicolour commander down.
Possibility Storm for combo decks
By extension Aura Flux against enchantment heavy decks.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Short of Humility, Torpor Orb is probably the most powerful hoser vs the way that most people play the format.
Grip Of Chaos brutally hoses efficient, interactive decks.
Possibility Storm hoses countermagic and most decks that rely on "having the right card."
A fast Iona, Shield of Emeria hoses monocolor like none other.
Stranglehold is a pretty impressive card vs shenanigans and has never been one I have been disappointed to see on my side of the board.
Effective GY hosers are a dime a dozen. Engineered Explosives and Leyline of Singularity are pretty effective vs tokens.
Portcullis, Illness in the Ranks, Virulent Plague shut down token decks.
Grafdigger's Cage and Leyline of the Void help stop graveyard shenanigans.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Arcane Laboratory, Rule of Law, Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amethyst, Trinisphere, Lodestone Golem stop or slow down spell-based combo.
I heard Null Rod is pretty good against artifact decks.
So many awesome hate cards like Mindlock Orb have been printed over the years it's overwhelming. I'm sure others will have lots more suggestions.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
Moon and Ruination etc do a lot if people play greedy mana bases. It'll probably teach 'em not to.
Rest on the other hand is a spell that a player has to consciously include in their deck for the express purpose of hosing graveyard strategies (and is symmetrical so they might not even run it if they rely on their graveyard enough).
To put it another way, if I'm sitting down with one or more other black players, it's a forgone conclusion that at some point in the game a Bojuka Bog will ruin someone's graveyard. It's not all that uncommon to see two or three bogs triggers in one game, consistently. If I were to ever focus on the graveyard, it'd never go all-in because getting it exiled is almost guaranteed.
Rest in Peace is a trump card answer to graveyard. Bojuka Bog makes graveyard-dependent strategies a nonstarter.
charm school against mono-coloured decks
city in a bottle, Golgothian Sylex, apocalypse chime, World-Bottling Kit against those specific expansions
rare-B-gone against decks with rare cards in 'em
portcullis, Vile Consumption, pendrell mist, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale against creatures.
forcefield, Righteous Aura against voltron decks
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
I actually disagree. RIP is a monster to play around because it nukes yards and also keeps it empty, forcing one to remove it before being permitted to use graveyards again. Bog has timing restrictions that certain decks can play around (only on main phases during your turn) as well as being a one-shot. However, if you're packing Knight of the Reliquary or Crop Rotation, then it becomes a much more attractive answer as you can slap down an uncounterable answer at instant speed.
However, I will say that it gets better the later the game gets, as graveyards are going to get bigger during that time. Really though, bog is just nice because the opportunity cost of running it is low.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Price of Progress
Back to Basics
Burning Earth
Helldozer
Akroma's Vengeance
Bane of Progress
Austere Command
Merciless Eviction
Akroma's Vengeance
Shattering Spree
Ruination
Vandal Blast
Bane of Progress
Austere Command
Seeds of Innocence
Fracturing Gust
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Gaddock Teeg
Narset Transcendent
From the Ashes
Wave of Vitriol
These are just SOME of them.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
RiP is good, I'm not debating that. But Bog is more worry some for a graveyard deck.
It's an interesting debate, for sure. My problem with Bojuka Bog is that you could nuke the GY player with it during your turn, then he could EoT Entomb, untag, and Reanimate an Iona, Shield of Emeria, Sire of Insanity, or whatever else in your face. He couldn't do that without dealing with Rest in Peace first, in contrast.
Back to the original post, I have really enjoyed running Gaddock Teeg hatebears. Teeg himself hoses so many strategies, and your run-of-the-mill battlecruiser EDH deck. Combine him with Ethersworn Cannonist, Grand Abolisher, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Linvala, Keepr of Silence, etc. and you can really clamp down on things.
The problem is, I really want to play a deck centered around Humility, which in turn renders all hatebears useless. I'm also not sure what color combo is best for abusing Humility. White is a given, for the card itself and all of white's other awesome control enchantments. There's several appealing bi-color and tri-color combinations.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
The card that is pacifism for all black creatures and Karma hozes all black decks.
The white enchantments that give protection from black or red to all creatures pretty much hoze those colors.
Carpet of Flowers hoses any deck with blue in it.
Honestly color hosers in the olden days were brutal.
Indeed, I played for a stretch in the late 90s, and I really miss the days where Sinkhole was considered printable
Anywho, color hosers can be good... unless you sit down at a table that's not heavy on any particular one of those colors. I think I like Ruination effects for lands the best, as you're guaranteed to hurt multi-colored decks, and even get value off mono-colored decks important utility lands.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Boseiju, Who Shelters All and Cavern of Souls can help hose counters (along with creatures like Gaea's Herald, Surrak Dragonclaw, Vexing Shusher, and indirectly by the recently printed Dragonlord Dromoka).