I agree with cryogen here. I'm all for a colorless basic land - as simple or as convoluted as that may be, but I would not be for adding any basic land to any deck. For the most part it wouldn't do much, but occasionally it would be a boost to domain and such. It would also add an element of confusion. Yes the rule already exists that if you produce mana outside of your commanders color identy it defaults to colorless; however, this does not happen near as often as it would/could if all basic lands were allowed in each deck. I would rather have no basic colorless land than that.
(sorry, on my work computer with a WAY outdated OS...not able to quote others)
What issues? That domain is improved outside of pentacolored decks? I'd hardly consider that an issue. This rule change is really straightforward and the consequences apparent. The only baggage that seemingly comes with it (and ultimately why it won't be considered) is that it isn't intuitive that basic lands have a colorless color identity and thus creates a lot of confusion regarding possible card legality in decks.
That seems like a pretty big drawback. The standard of a great design is when it functions like people expect it to function. No matter what color a Forest is, people expect it to be green. This is why we constantly have issues with fetchlands and hybrid cards; they have a very clear design but people have differing expectations of them.
Consider the far-reaching implications of a sixth basic land type. They would HAVE to include it in every subsequent expansion, because there may come time when cards that mention basic land types by name appear again. Farseek, Shard Convergence, and Spoils of Victory for example. They couldn't leave it out because people would ask why they didn't keep it in.
Also consider set sizes. Every set would have to accommodate the colourless land. That would mean the set would need to be larger, or they'd need to cut something else to make room.
What would it mean for draft? In most cases, there wouldn't be a point to using colourless lands, because coloured mana can serve as colourless mana for artifacts, X-spells, and fill out the colourless component of coloured spells. Chances are, colourless lands would gather dust in the lands bin during draft. They would need to force a reason for players to play the land.
The concept wouldn't benefit the game enough to balance out the problems it would add.
Consider the far-reaching implications of a sixth basic land type. They would HAVE to include it in every subsequent expansion, because there may come time when cards that mention basic land types by name appear again. Farseek, Shard Convergence, and Spoils of Victory for example. They couldn't leave it out because people would ask why they didn't keep it in.
Also consider set sizes. Every set would have to accommodate the colourless land. That would mean the set would need to be larger, or they'd need to cut something else to make room.
What would it mean for draft? In most cases, there wouldn't be a point to using colourless lands, because coloured mana can serve as colourless mana for artifacts, X-spells, and fill out the colourless component of coloured spells. Chances are, colourless lands would gather dust in the lands bin during draft. They would need to force a reason for players to play the land.
The concept wouldn't benefit the game enough to balance out the problems it would add.
Print the lands in the Commander 2015 Precons. That way it has no impact on constructed formats outside of Vintage and Commander.
With the cards you mentioned above, two of them can search for any land but Forests. No change would be required. Using the example I posted earlier, you could use Rampant Growth or Pilgrim's Eye to search for Excavation Site
They would need to force a reason for players to play the land.
Yes. There is 0% chance that Wizards would print a set or precon with colorless basics and leave it at that. If and when we get colorless basics, they'll be paired with some mechanic that cares about colorless mana. Things like "Spend only colorless mana on x", or "If colorless mana was spent to cast ~, draw a card", or "~ enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter for each colorless mana spent to cast it"
Print the lands in the Commander 2015 Precons. That way it has no impact on constructed formats outside of Vintage and Commander.
With the cards you mentioned above, two of them can search for any land but Forests. No change would be required. Using the example I posted earlier, you could use Rampant Growth or Pilgrim's Eye to search for Excavation Site
It still sets a bad precedent. Even if they printed it in a Commander set, the cards would still exist, either in small enough amounts to make them prohibitively expensive, or they'd become ubiquitous enough that people would start demanding that they'd be printed in Standard, because they're basic lands. Leaving a basic land type out of a standard set would feel like a glaring omission.
Okay, but let's say they do wall off the colourless basic into Commander and Vintage only.
Consider if Wizards created a card like Tek or Last Stand again. Something that deals with each basic land type by name. They would have to name the colourless-mana-producing basic land because it's part of the game, regardless of what format it's played in. Not doing that would further the divide between Commander and MTG as a whole. And that's the opposite of what Wizard wants.
It would be as if they created an entirely new card type for Commander only. No, you can't play [new card type] in Modern. But Tarmogoyf gets bigger if there's one in a graveyard.
"No, you can't play conspiracy in Modern, but Tarmogoyf gets bigger if there's one in a graveyard."
(Admittedly difficult to do. I think a draft deck that picked up Death Wish and a conspiracy could do it though [in cube or Triple CNS draft with a lore seeker adding a JUD pack].)
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
"No, you can't play conspiracy in Modern, but Tarmogoyf gets bigger if there's one in a graveyard."
(Admittedly difficult to do. I think a draft deck that picked up Death Wish and a conspiracy could do it though [in cube or Triple CNS draft with a lore seeker adding a JUD pack].)
Uhh...conspiracies are never meant to be played in a deck - they exist in the command zone in one specific draft format. A basic land is a basic land - present in every format.
And your argument gets worse. Death Wish isn't modern legal.
[EDH] It's built to be a casual format and to a specific vision, and if you don't like the vision, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to change to accommodate everyone. Big tent is not a goal.
It still sets a bad precedent. Even if they printed it in a Commander set, the cards would still exist, either in small enough amounts to make them prohibitively expensive, or they'd become ubiquitous enough that people would start demanding that they'd be printed in Standard, because they're basic lands. Leaving a basic land type out of a standard set would feel like a glaring omission.
"No, you can't play conspiracy in Modern, but Tarmogoyf gets bigger if there's one in a graveyard."
(Admittedly difficult to do. I think a draft deck that picked up Death Wish and a conspiracy could do it though [in cube or Triple CNS draft with a lore seeker adding a JUD pack].)
Uhh...conspiracies are never meant to be played in a deck - they exist in the command zone in one specific draft format. A basic land is a basic land - present in every format.
And your argument gets worse. Death Wish isn't modern legal.
I never claimed it was. My point is that they have already created a card type that you can't use in any of the major formats, so they could create a new basic land if they wanted to. It would be present in eternal formats + modern + standard until it rotates out of standard. If it was in a Commander set, it would only be legal in eternal formats.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
It still sets a bad precedent. Even if they printed it in a Commander set, the cards would still exist, either in small enough amounts to make them prohibitively expensive, or they'd become ubiquitous enough that people would start demanding that they'd be printed in Standard, because they're basic lands. Leaving a basic land type out of a standard set would feel like a glaring omission.
So... like Snow Covered basics?
No, not like Snow basics, because "Snow" is a supertype that can be applied to any permanent (like Legendary), not a basic land type.
No, not like Snow basics, because "Snow" is a supertype that can be applied to any permanent (like Legendary), not a basic land type.
Oh. I presume you don't mean subtype (e.g. Forest) by "basic land type"? The best solution seems to be a colorless-producing Basic which has no subtype. The comparison to Snow Covered Basics was made because this colorless Basic would be just as useful outside of a 'Colorless Matters' theme as Snow Basics are outside of a 'Snow Matters' theme. Why would people be clamoring for it to be reprinted in Standard sets given such a practical uselessness?
I would think that if we were going to get a "Barry's Land" it would show up in a Commander precon. That is the only place where it would be feasible to print. It also hits just the right market of people interested in it.
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I would think that if we were going to get a "Barry's Land" it would show up in a Commander precon. That is the only place where it would be feasible to print. It also hits just the right market of people interested in it.
....or duel deck or planechase or archenemy, and so on... but yea i get what u mean.
I for one can't wait to see how they'd manage to 'solve' barry's land though. i like to think that i have a pretty good idea how it'd work, but i just wanna see what they'd name it. my bet would be either cave or the name of some other area in the blind eternities or something.
(sorry, on my work computer with a WAY outdated OS...not able to quote others)
That seems like a pretty big drawback. The standard of a great design is when it functions like people expect it to function. No matter what color a Forest is, people expect it to be green. This is why we constantly have issues with fetchlands and hybrid cards; they have a very clear design but people have differing expectations of them.
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Also consider set sizes. Every set would have to accommodate the colourless land. That would mean the set would need to be larger, or they'd need to cut something else to make room.
What would it mean for draft? In most cases, there wouldn't be a point to using colourless lands, because coloured mana can serve as colourless mana for artifacts, X-spells, and fill out the colourless component of coloured spells. Chances are, colourless lands would gather dust in the lands bin during draft. They would need to force a reason for players to play the land.
The concept wouldn't benefit the game enough to balance out the problems it would add.
Print the lands in the Commander 2015 Precons. That way it has no impact on constructed formats outside of Vintage and Commander.
With the cards you mentioned above, two of them can search for any land but Forests. No change would be required. Using the example I posted earlier, you could use Rampant Growth or Pilgrim's Eye to search for Excavation Site
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It still sets a bad precedent. Even if they printed it in a Commander set, the cards would still exist, either in small enough amounts to make them prohibitively expensive, or they'd become ubiquitous enough that people would start demanding that they'd be printed in Standard, because they're basic lands. Leaving a basic land type out of a standard set would feel like a glaring omission.
Okay, but let's say they do wall off the colourless basic into Commander and Vintage only.
Consider if Wizards created a card like Tek or Last Stand again. Something that deals with each basic land type by name. They would have to name the colourless-mana-producing basic land because it's part of the game, regardless of what format it's played in. Not doing that would further the divide between Commander and MTG as a whole. And that's the opposite of what Wizard wants.
It would be as if they created an entirely new card type for Commander only. No, you can't play [new card type] in Modern. But Tarmogoyf gets bigger if there's one in a graveyard.
(Admittedly difficult to do. I think a draft deck that picked up Death Wish and a conspiracy could do it though [in cube or Triple CNS draft with a lore seeker adding a JUD pack].)
Uhh...conspiracies are never meant to be played in a deck - they exist in the command zone in one specific draft format. A basic land is a basic land - present in every format.
And your argument gets worse. Death Wish isn't modern legal.
I never claimed it was. My point is that they have already created a card type that you can't use in any of the major formats, so they could create a new basic land if they wanted to. It would be present in eternal formats + modern + standard until it rotates out of standard. If it was in a Commander set, it would only be legal in eternal formats.
No, not like Snow basics, because "Snow" is a supertype that can be applied to any permanent (like Legendary), not a basic land type.
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....or duel deck or planechase or archenemy, and so on... but yea i get what u mean.
I for one can't wait to see how they'd manage to 'solve' barry's land though. i like to think that i have a pretty good idea how it'd work, but i just wanna see what they'd name it. my bet would be either cave or the name of some other area in the blind eternities or something.
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