Who would be the commander that has the most cards that are instant wins when paired with their commander? I'm genuinely interested for educational purposes so I know which generals to look out for more than others. I'm not really talking about sharuum antics where 3 cards are needed; I'm more referring to things like mind over matter in a Niv-mizzet, the firemind deck.
Ghave, Guru of Spores. He tends to go off whenever you just blink once or twice. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is also a good one, but he's a wee bit more limited in his choices.
The thing with Ghave is that there are a lot of varied ways to go infinite with him, usually involving either a sac outlet or a token doubler. Or both. Point is, he'll kill you without you ever having seen it coming.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
his abilities seem so innocuous (if you've never played against him before), and then suddenly, the cogs in the ghave player's mind starts clicking and before you know it, hes discovered an as-of-yet-undiscovered combo.
in my playgroup, one of the guys has a ghave saproling tribal deck that kept comboing off randomly. every time he did a combo, he took out the offending piece, replaced it with something else, then found some other random combo instead.
if you wanna make a ghave combo deck, you're probably gonna be flooded with options
Ghave, Guru of Spores. He tends to go off whenever you just blink once or twice. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is also a good one, but he's a wee bit more limited in his choices.
The thing with Ghave is that there are a lot of varied ways to go infinite with him, usually involving either a sac outlet or a token doubler. Or both. Point is, he'll kill you without you ever having seen it coming.
Yeah, Ghave is the one that first comes to mind. If you put a card in because it deals with tokens / sacrifice / +1/+1 counters, thinking it'll synergise with your general, it'll probably actually go infinite with him...
Guys, I'm asking for literal 1 card combos that go with the general, like prossh, skyraider of kher and food chain shenanigans. Ghave uses multiple cards to combo out (needs infinite mana outlets and such as far as I'm aware). Who actually has the largest amount of singular instant win cards that combo with the general?
Ghave uses multiple cards to combo out (needs infinite mana outlets and such as far as I'm aware).
Ghave + Cathar's Crusade. It's not infinite on its own, but it really doesn't need to be. to create an X+1/X+1 Saproling, an X/X Saproling, an X-1/X-1 Saproling ... a 3/3 Saproling, a 2/2 Saproling, and put the +1/+1 counter back on Ghave.
Most actual 2-card combos with a general aren't going to do very much alone. Sharuum + Sculpting Steel is infinite, for example, but without anything triggering off the ETB/dies triggers, it does squat.
You need to be clear on how you define your infinite, as well. Melek + Proteus Staff with a deck that has no creature in it lets you stack your library and then cast instants and sorceries off the top. With the right spells (Turnabout+Reiterate, for example), this can be infinite, but I can tell you from experience playing a creatureless Melek deck that going infinite is hardly required when you can hit a storm count of 20+ and have a hundred mana to spare. And have counterspell backup.
I don't know if he edges out Ghave, but Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is definitely a contender. Besides the obvious Triskelion two card combo, he goes infinite with so many different creatures and a sac engine.
the difference is that almost anything you'd want to shove into a ghave deck even if you aren't looking to go infinite happens to go infinite. most the other pieces are very synergistic with his usual builds.
mikaeus is also a good one actually. can do some pretty nutty things with persist as well.
If you do include sac outlets, the list becomes a lot longer.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I think my winner for this is Narset, Enlightened Master. If you hit the correct cards and have a solid build, you just don't need any extra cards for an "Ooops, I win!". So, technically speaking, if you go in the red zone with her and she goes off, she can be paired with any of your 99 cards and also none... Or in other words, the question as a whole is not well-defined. Especially, when you look at Commander damage monsters such as Volrath the Fallen.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
It's worth noting that a UR identity also leaves you open to running many of the easy assembly combos previously mentioned as well, such as Azami+MoM, Teferi+Pool, Kiki/Twin+Conscripts, and in some cases will extend the number of combo pieces available to those cards (Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch for Kiki/Twin, Possibility Storm for Teferi, etc.). As well, UR is a well established color combination for hand filtering and control elements, so it's also a deck that can protect it's combo once the pieces are in place...
OP here. With the new (well, new-ish) rule where your commander cannot be tucked, there has never been more of a time where general combos have been so reliant. To expand on my first post, I am well aware of the fact there are 5 or so "instant win" cards that combine with niv-mizzet, the firemind:
This would mean that Niv-mizzet has 5 "instant win" cards that pair with him. Do note I'm not looking/asking for anything that generates infinite mana anything, just a 1-card "instant-win" combo that goes with the general. Using this example of niv having 5, are there any generals that have even more than 5 "I win" one card combos that go with the general? Oh, and thanks for all the contributions so far guys.
OP here. With the new (well, new-ish) rule where your commander cannot be tucked, there has never been more of a time where general combos have been so reliant. To expand on my first post, I am well aware of the fact there are 5 or so "instant win" cards that combine with niv-mizzet, the firemind:
Or Beacon of Tomorrows for a few of them. As long as no other player can force you to draw cards.
Niv is probably the pick in terms of "1 card" combos. But when you consider how things interact with Ghave most of the "2 card" combos might as well be 1 card because it's hard not to have one of the cards you need on board.
Niv is probably the pick in terms of "1 card" combos. But when you consider how things interact with Ghave most of the "2 card" combos might as well be 1 card because it's hard not to have one of the cards you need on board.
I find junk colored commanders to be the biggest offenders of the 'oops I win' variant. I haven't played with or against a finely tuned Ghave deck, but I definitely see where he goes nuts with a bunch of cards. One of my friends has a Karador list, & while he doesn't rely on Karador to necessarily combo, the deck itself has so many combo interactions & tutors in it, that it usually can find some sort of instant win by turns 4 or 5 if not heavily disrupted.
For just comboing with one card, the Commander with the most, "One specific card win conditions" would probably be Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind or I guess Mikaeus, the Unhallowed since he combos with stuff like Workhorse and can steal all the guys from all the graveyards with Puppeteer Clique, or just flat out win with Triskelion. When it comes to 2 card combos (Commander + Card) that win immediately, though, I think Niv-Mizzet is the winner there.
Ghave, Guru of Spores, on the other hand, can typically combo with 2 cards, and they usually do not have to be specific. Earthcraft and Doubling Season, for example, make the typical, "Oops, I win" in Ghave, but you can substitute Cathars' Crusade with Doubling Season, Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar over Earthcraft, etc.. Any creature with Undying and a sacrifice outlet that produces mana or Earthcraft lets you make all the babies and pay all the alimony- so a board state of Ashnod's/Phyrexian Altar, Young Wolf and Ghave can create an arbitrarily large amount of tokens as could a board state of Earthcraft, Butcher Ghoul and Ghave, except in the latter's case the tokens would all be tapped (so you'd obviously do this on your opponent's end step). Complicated, "Oops I win" board states with persist and undying creatures happen all the time with that deck just because of all the redundant nonsense you can run in WBG.
The flexibility is probably why people keep recommending Ghave, as he combos with practically anything that has Persist or Undying plus a sacrifice outlet (or Earthcraft if you just want to sac them to Ghave's ability or Blasting Station), Doubling Season, Karmic Guide/Reveillark, Mikaeus the Unhallowed, etc. all make strong board states with him and a lot of the pieces to combo out with him are interchangeable. Then, also, because Ghave is WBG you get access to some of the best tutors in the format: Idyllic Tutor to find Earthcraft/Doubling Season, Enlightened Tutor for the same plus the Altars, Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling, Defense of the Heart, Tooth and Nail, Worldly Tutor, Eladamri's Call, Natural Order, etc., for finding combo creatures and Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor and Diabolic Intent to find anything.
Marath, Will of the Wild is almost as prone as Ghave as far as finding sudden 2+ card combos without even trying. If looking for just "Oh, I didn't mean to win" combos those two are still the staple.
So which general would you guess has the most?
The thing with Ghave is that there are a lot of varied ways to go infinite with him, usually involving either a sac outlet or a token doubler. Or both. Point is, he'll kill you without you ever having seen it coming.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
his abilities seem so innocuous (if you've never played against him before), and then suddenly, the cogs in the ghave player's mind starts clicking and before you know it, hes discovered an as-of-yet-undiscovered combo.
in my playgroup, one of the guys has a ghave saproling tribal deck that kept comboing off randomly. every time he did a combo, he took out the offending piece, replaced it with something else, then found some other random combo instead.
if you wanna make a ghave combo deck, you're probably gonna be flooded with options
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Yeah, Ghave is the one that first comes to mind. If you put a card in because it deals with tokens / sacrifice / +1/+1 counters, thinking it'll synergise with your general, it'll probably actually go infinite with him...
Most actual 2-card combos with a general aren't going to do very much alone. Sharuum + Sculpting Steel is infinite, for example, but without anything triggering off the ETB/dies triggers, it does squat.
You need to be clear on how you define your infinite, as well. Melek + Proteus Staff with a deck that has no creature in it lets you stack your library and then cast instants and sorceries off the top. With the right spells (Turnabout+Reiterate, for example), this can be infinite, but I can tell you from experience playing a creatureless Melek deck that going infinite is hardly required when you can hit a storm count of 20+ and have a hundred mana to spare. And have counterspell backup.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
mikaeus is also a good one actually. can do some pretty nutty things with persist as well.
sliver queen+mana echoes/ashnod's altar?
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Azami, Lady of Scrolls + Mind over Matter.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Knowledge Pool
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Zealous Conscripts
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Curiosity/Ophidian Eye
Animar, Soul of Elements + Ancestral Statue
Sliver Queen + Mana Echoes
If you do include sac outlets, the list becomes a lot longer.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Friggin Mirri the Cursed...
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
It's worth noting that a UR identity also leaves you open to running many of the easy assembly combos previously mentioned as well, such as Azami+MoM, Teferi+Pool, Kiki/Twin+Conscripts, and in some cases will extend the number of combo pieces available to those cards (Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch for Kiki/Twin, Possibility Storm for Teferi, etc.). As well, UR is a well established color combination for hand filtering and control elements, so it's also a deck that can protect it's combo once the pieces are in place...
RRR - Bosh's School of Hard(cover) Knocks
curiosity
ophidian eye
mind over matter
tandem lookout
enter the infinite
(these require an eldrazi in the deck to function perfectly)
This would mean that Niv-mizzet has 5 "instant win" cards that pair with him. Do note I'm not looking/asking for anything that generates infinite mana anything, just a 1-card "instant-win" combo that goes with the general. Using this example of niv having 5, are there any generals that have even more than 5 "I win" one card combos that go with the general? Oh, and thanks for all the contributions so far guys.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Or Beacon of Tomorrows for a few of them. As long as no other player can force you to draw cards.
Niv is probably the pick in terms of "1 card" combos. But when you consider how things interact with Ghave most of the "2 card" combos might as well be 1 card because it's hard not to have one of the cards you need on board.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Also considering just how redundant the things you need with him are (Doubling Season, Corpsejack Menace, Hardened Scales, Parallel Lives, to only name a few) it's really not that hard to have one of those.
Ghave, Guru of Spores, on the other hand, can typically combo with 2 cards, and they usually do not have to be specific. Earthcraft and Doubling Season, for example, make the typical, "Oops, I win" in Ghave, but you can substitute Cathars' Crusade with Doubling Season, Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar over Earthcraft, etc.. Any creature with Undying and a sacrifice outlet that produces mana or Earthcraft lets you make all the babies and pay all the alimony- so a board state of Ashnod's/Phyrexian Altar, Young Wolf and Ghave can create an arbitrarily large amount of tokens as could a board state of Earthcraft, Butcher Ghoul and Ghave, except in the latter's case the tokens would all be tapped (so you'd obviously do this on your opponent's end step). Complicated, "Oops I win" board states with persist and undying creatures happen all the time with that deck just because of all the redundant nonsense you can run in WBG.
The flexibility is probably why people keep recommending Ghave, as he combos with practically anything that has Persist or Undying plus a sacrifice outlet (or Earthcraft if you just want to sac them to Ghave's ability or Blasting Station), Doubling Season, Karmic Guide/Reveillark, Mikaeus the Unhallowed, etc. all make strong board states with him and a lot of the pieces to combo out with him are interchangeable. Then, also, because Ghave is WBG you get access to some of the best tutors in the format: Idyllic Tutor to find Earthcraft/Doubling Season, Enlightened Tutor for the same plus the Altars, Green Sun's Zenith, Chord of Calling, Defense of the Heart, Tooth and Nail, Worldly Tutor, Eladamri's Call, Natural Order, etc., for finding combo creatures and Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor and Diabolic Intent to find anything.
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Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
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For one card only..... Niv probably