Oh my God....... you are really serious about this, are you?
I believe they were mostly joking but utilizing it as an example of where they felt it stood by utilizing a super niche card that sees no play. I dont believe they actually value Island of Wak-Wak as a land so much as don't value Gemstone Caverns. The example he chose is a bit extreme but I believe it was to make a point of how much he dislikes the caverns.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Oh my God....... you are really serious about this, are you?
I believe they were mostly joking but utilizing it as an example of where they felt it stood by utilizing a super niche card that sees no play. I dont believe they actually value Island of Wak-Wak as a land so much as don't value Gemstone Caverns. The example he chose is a bit extreme but I believe it was to make a point of how much he dislikes the caverns.
My friend plays Island of Wak-Wak in his Pheldagriff deck. Every card can be good depending on what you plan to do with it in your deck.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
My friend plays Island of Wak-Wak in his Pheldagriff deck. Every card can be good depending on what you plan to do with it in your deck.
I can see some meta decisions to run it but its still a very narrow land that does not produce mana. Maze of Ith seems like it would most of the time be more well rounded of the two. There are still situations where it becomes more relevant still but they seem very few and far between.
Its probably not very relevant to the discussion of the playability to Gemstone Caverns though. I don't really know why we got into talking about Wak Wak anyways in this discussion. Gals I think you are still under valuing it but I can see some validity in your discussion I think you are overly dismissing the caverns. In the same regards I think you are overly dismissing colorless mana lands. I often run 5-10 colorless lands in my mono color decks so when it comes to 2 color decks I still often consider a few of them depending on the commander.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
My friend plays Island of Wak-Wak in his Pheldagriff deck. Every card can be good depending on what you plan to do with it in your deck.
I can see some meta decisions to run it but its still a very narrow land that does not produce mana. Maze of Ith seems like it would most of the time be more well rounded of the two. There are still situations where it becomes more relevant still but they seem very few and far between.
Well, Pheldagriff turns any creature into flyer, in this targets flyers, and it's uncounterable and colorless. It has its use (I'm not saying it's good, but it's fun at least).
Its probably not very relevant to the discussion of the playability to Gemstone Caverns though. I don't really know why we got into talking about Wak Wak anyways in this discussion.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I've been considering this land for a very CutThroat Azami build. Once Azami is online you ALWAYS have surplus lands, so I'm not that concerned about the lategame utility, and it is better in the opening hand than any of the legal Moxen, but only on the Draw. Does anybody have experience with thi card in hard combo EDH decks? Does anybody have any thoughts with regards to this card in Azami specifically?
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"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
Well, Pheldagriff turns any creature into flyer, in this targets flyers, and it's uncounterable and colorless. It has its use (I'm not saying it's good, but it's fun at least).
Uh... you may want to re-read Phelddagrif. Neither Phelddagrif nor Questing Phelddagrif grant flying to other creatures. Both can give themselves flying.
I've been considering this land for a very CutThroat Azami build. Once Azami is online you ALWAYS have surplus lands, so I'm not that concerned about the lategame utility, and it is better in the opening hand than any of the legal Moxen, but only on the Draw. Does anybody have experience with thi card in hard combo EDH decks? Does anybody have any thoughts with regards to this card in Azami specifically?
if you really wanna go this way, we're talking a very small chance of it giving you a mana bump in the early game. maybe consider adding in serum powder as well?
i think i have gemstone caverns in one of my decks, im not sure which one, but just 'cuz i had an extra lying around, non-basic hate wasn't nearly as widespread back then, and its not like i see it often enough for me to remember to take it out. i dont think its ever made a difference for me in EDH.
in my old legacy turn 0 hulk kill build tho, its been very good.
Gemstone Caverns has tested really well in my Derevi. So well that I've picked up some foils to shove into future projects. Being able to T0 Brainstorm, Enlightened Tutor, Swan Song, or Wordly Tutor is powerful. Maybe 1 out of 7 games I'll see it in an opening hand. But when I see Caverns, it has enabled some monster starts. It has tested so well that I've been debating whether or not to try Leyline of Anticipation.
I almost managed a T2 Dragonlord Ojutai last week off of caverns with a T1 Pentad Prism but a red player who went before me happened to have Smash in hand (and sol ring start).
So far, my experience with it has been very positive. Its downside tends to be if drawn in the first few turns of the game or going first but with it being multiplayer you tend to go first a lot less. If you have a good landbase its rare for it to be a problem when drawn early. Its definitely for tempo ramp based strategies but I like that its downside when not established in your opener is so minor.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I've been thinking of putting it in my azami deck which certainly doesn't mind losing a card in my opening hand and would like to be to get azami out a turn earlier.
More importantly, I've been considering it for my arcum Dagsson deck. The fact it's colorless after turn 1 is not a huge downside in an artifact deck and in addition to ramping out arcum faster, there a lot of 1cmc spells I'd love to be able to cast on turn 0. Any thoughts anyone?
I've been thinking of putting it in my azami deck which certainly doesn't mind losing a card in my opening hand and would like to be to get azami out a turn earlier.
More importantly, I've been considering it for my arcum Dagsson deck. The fact it's colorless after turn 1 is not a huge downside in an artifact deck and in addition to ramping out arcum faster, there a lot of 1cmc spells I'd love to be able to cast on turn 0. Any thoughts anyone?
Its been fantastic for me for decks where speed matters and card advantage / card draw is plentiful later. The downside is a lot easier to manage than on moxes where they can be more awkward later. I might even be expanding what decks I run it in myself.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
After visiting this thread over a month ago I became enticed by the card and decided to include it into my Zedruu the Greathearted deck. I've been very pleased with it since it's inclusion. Ramp is crucial in Commander and access to good ramp in three color nongreen decks is limited. Gemstone Caverns is a great land in my deck because it compensates my weakness (ramp) in exchange for my strength (drawing cards). The fact that I can draw the Caverns outside my opening hand and have it only produce colorless mana is largely irrelevant because the reason I included it in the first place is due to the fact that I draw an absurd number of cards anyway. When my hand is overflowing, I have other lands I can play each turn.
I'm not sure I would play with card before Chrome Mox, barring the price tag, but Gemstone Caverns certainly does a really good Mox impersonation.
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After visiting this thread over a month ago I became enticed by the card and decided to include it into my Zedruu the Greathearted deck. I've been very pleased with it since it's inclusion.
This is heartening; I have a Zedruu deck also, and was wondering if I could make up for the card disadvantage with it. Would you consider playing Mox Diamond and/or Chrome Mox also? Or is the no-card disadvantage of Gemstone Caverns more acceptable to you later in the game?
It's super awesome in my Edric, Spymaster of Trest deck. In general I think it'll be awesome in any deck that needs fast mana early and can generate card advantage effortlessly. and can afford to draw a crappy colorless land off the top 3 times for every one it pretends its a chrome mox
It's super awesome in my Edric, Spymaster of Trest deck. In general I think it'll be awesome in any deck that needs fast mana early and can generate card advantage effortlessly. and can afford to draw a crappy colorless land off the top 3 times for every one it pretends its a chrome mox
Fixed
You do know that chrome mox also isn't a great topdeck either... right?
Considering all the colorless lands with minor upsides that I find uses for in some of my decks, I can't imagine this being unplayable. It's a colorless land with a rarely occurring but sometimes fantastic upside.
No incorrect when I cast wheel of fortune and hit chrome mox it does exactly what I want it too . I mean exactly what I say if your deck has no room for colorless lands it's bad if your playing Kozliek and all your lands are brown it's fine. If I cast ad Nauseam chrome mox is one if the best cards I could possibly draw this land does nothing. If I cast a turn 1 ponder/ brainstorm / preordain and it finds chrome mox it still does exactly what I want it too. If you play this card it has to A be ok to play colorless lands in your build and B be better than any other colorless land you could run in the slot. I don't know about you but I like to draw cards by the time a game ends I will see 20-50 cards only 7 of those chance let this card do anything but suck. Now if thier is no downside IE im playing mono brown great ! But the upside is at best an effect like chrome mox which is by no means broken but most if the time it's a colorless land and that's it. The more colors you play and the more important getting colored mana off your land drops the more ***** this card is. His blanket statement was incorrect there are more things to consider in fact I've just scratched the surface this is a complex game. I could see it being good in his edric deck but his generalization I find false in a large number of decks I can think of...
After visiting this thread over a month ago I became enticed by the card and decided to include it into my Zedruu the Greathearted deck. I've been very pleased with it since it's inclusion.
This is heartening; I have a Zedruu deck also, and was wondering if I could make up for the card disadvantage with it. Would you consider playing Mox Diamond and/or Chrome Mox also? Or is the no-card disadvantage of Gemstone Caverns more acceptable to you later in the game?
If I owned the cards, I would play all three. The "no-card disadvantage" of drawing the Caverns late into the game is meaningless to me. I'm playing Gemstone Caverns because I value it's ability when it works. Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond have the benefit of "always working" so to speak, and I would include them in my decklist before I would include the Caverns.
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has anyone worked out the %chance of you having gemstone caverns in the opening hand? if we use the partial paris + 1 free?
it'd be like 7 + 7 + 6 + 5 and so on, right? even if you get down to the 6 opening hand, its still 20 of 99 you've seen, or 1/4 of the deck. pretty good odds, right? never thought about it that way before; makes me wanna add it into more decks that needs it!
This is heartening; I have a Zedruu deck also, and was wondering if I could make up for the card disadvantage with it. Would you consider playing Mox Diamond and/or Chrome Mox also? Or is the no-card disadvantage of Gemstone Caverns more acceptable to you later in the game?
If I owned the cards, I would play all three. The "no-card disadvantage" of drawing the Caverns late into the game is meaningless to me. I'm playing Gemstone Caverns because I value it's ability when it works. Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond have the benefit of "always working" so to speak, and I would include them in my decklist before I would include the Caverns.
I'll test out all three and let you know if it's too much, haha. Without wanting to hijack this thread, what kind of donate mechanisms are you running, or is strictly casting Zedruu and using his activated ability? Do you run much other card draw?
This is heartening; I have a Zedruu deck also, and was wondering if I could make up for the card disadvantage with it. Would you consider playing Mox Diamond and/or Chrome Mox also? Or is the no-card disadvantage of Gemstone Caverns more acceptable to you later in the game?
If I owned the cards, I would play all three. The "no-card disadvantage" of drawing the Caverns late into the game is meaningless to me. I'm playing Gemstone Caverns because I value it's ability when it works. Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond have the benefit of "always working" so to speak, and I would include them in my decklist before I would include the Caverns.
I'll test out all three and let you know if it's too much, haha. Without wanting to hijack this thread, what kind of donate mechanisms are you running, or is strictly casting Zedruu and using his activated ability? Do you run much other card draw?
I'll send you a pm so we can continue the conversation there.
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I believe they were mostly joking but utilizing it as an example of where they felt it stood by utilizing a super niche card that sees no play. I dont believe they actually value Island of Wak-Wak as a land so much as don't value Gemstone Caverns. The example he chose is a bit extreme but I believe it was to make a point of how much he dislikes the caverns.
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[Modern] Allies
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I can see some meta decisions to run it but its still a very narrow land that does not produce mana. Maze of Ith seems like it would most of the time be more well rounded of the two. There are still situations where it becomes more relevant still but they seem very few and far between.
Its probably not very relevant to the discussion of the playability to Gemstone Caverns though. I don't really know why we got into talking about Wak Wak anyways in this discussion. Gals I think you are still under valuing it but I can see some validity in your discussion I think you are overly dismissing the caverns. In the same regards I think you are overly dismissing colorless mana lands. I often run 5-10 colorless lands in my mono color decks so when it comes to 2 color decks I still often consider a few of them depending on the commander.
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[Modern] Allies
Agreed.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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if you really wanna go this way, we're talking a very small chance of it giving you a mana bump in the early game. maybe consider adding in serum powder as well?
i think i have gemstone caverns in one of my decks, im not sure which one, but just 'cuz i had an extra lying around, non-basic hate wasn't nearly as widespread back then, and its not like i see it often enough for me to remember to take it out. i dont think its ever made a difference for me in EDH.
in my old legacy turn 0 hulk kill build tho, its been very good.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
So far, my experience with it has been very positive. Its downside tends to be if drawn in the first few turns of the game or going first but with it being multiplayer you tend to go first a lot less. If you have a good landbase its rare for it to be a problem when drawn early. Its definitely for tempo ramp based strategies but I like that its downside when not established in your opener is so minor.
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More importantly, I've been considering it for my arcum Dagsson deck. The fact it's colorless after turn 1 is not a huge downside in an artifact deck and in addition to ramping out arcum faster, there a lot of 1cmc spells I'd love to be able to cast on turn 0. Any thoughts anyone?
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Its been fantastic for me for decks where speed matters and card advantage / card draw is plentiful later. The downside is a lot easier to manage than on moxes where they can be more awkward later. I might even be expanding what decks I run it in myself.
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I'm not sure I would play with card before Chrome Mox, barring the price tag, but Gemstone Caverns certainly does a really good Mox impersonation.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
GRWort, Control
UBDralnu, Reanimator
This is heartening; I have a Zedruu deck also, and was wondering if I could make up for the card disadvantage with it. Would you consider playing Mox Diamond and/or Chrome Mox also? Or is the no-card disadvantage of Gemstone Caverns more acceptable to you later in the game?
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Fixed
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
You do know that chrome mox also isn't a great topdeck either... right?
Considering all the colorless lands with minor upsides that I find uses for in some of my decks, I can't imagine this being unplayable. It's a colorless land with a rarely occurring but sometimes fantastic upside.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
If I owned the cards, I would play all three. The "no-card disadvantage" of drawing the Caverns late into the game is meaningless to me. I'm playing Gemstone Caverns because I value it's ability when it works. Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond have the benefit of "always working" so to speak, and I would include them in my decklist before I would include the Caverns.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
it'd be like 7 + 7 + 6 + 5 and so on, right? even if you get down to the 6 opening hand, its still 20 of 99 you've seen, or 1/4 of the deck. pretty good odds, right? never thought about it that way before; makes me wanna add it into more decks that needs it!
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
I'll test out all three and let you know if it's too much, haha. Without wanting to hijack this thread, what kind of donate mechanisms are you running, or is strictly casting Zedruu and using his activated ability? Do you run much other card draw?
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
I'll send you a pm so we can continue the conversation there.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!