I run Soraya the Falconer as my mono-white deck. It's pretty obvious what I'm doing (birds; more specifically Bird Soldier tribal), but most people don't consider it a threat.
Then again, half the people I play against also don't really understand Banding...
Half the people you play with understand banding!?
Well, about an eighth of the people I play with were heavy into the game when banding was new, another eighth are intelligent and rules-conscious, and a quarter understand it after I play my Soraya deck against them and explain it. So yeah, about half of the people I play with understand banding.
I play Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni and she kind of tends to draw a lot less hate than someone playing, say, Chainer. A lot of people in my LGS are automatically suspicious of mono-colored decks because of Daretti and Azami players ruining it, but Ink-Eyes tends to just kind of fly under people's radar. Reanimating a single creature *if* she hits isn't scary to most folks, but then my meta is super combo-oriented so it might be different for you.
I think he is asking more about what generals do you look at and see it as a card but not a huge threat. People see my Hivelord and surprisingly no one goes crazy. My deck is not Sliver tribal (Though i do run other slivers)
I see other decks show up as well But perhaps something obscure. I mean No one expected Patron of the moon to be violent until i pulled off a C.rift Overload and then Sunder. However if you are going Political, Ruhan of the Fomori may be a very good bet. You can make a deck that has him attack who you want. And he is a 7/7 body for 4 mana. Nothing spectacular about him but hey why should you care? Throw on some invasion and a few boosts, a 7/7 now becomes deadly and they were too busy focusing on the guy running Azami.
Sadly even with a Blah general, a lot of decks see what you do the first game and decide if you are a threat or not for the next game. If you pulverize them, the mentality sees you as a major threat.
Now while the deck is not top tier by any means, If they see Ral Zarek come out I become public enemy #1. The good part about my deck though is when i start playing multiple PWs a turn. They have to decided which one is the biggest threat.
Basically, consider, if you will, Goblin Tribal. Now you could go and run Krenko, Mob Boss as your commander. Everyone knows what you're going to do, and you can bet guns are going to be aimed at you. So you'll want to avoid that unless you really are going to play balls to the walls. Instead, you could consider Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. He's known to be powerful and has some infinites, so he'll be watched, but as a commander he's not as feared as Krenko, so while people will be watching you, they also won't direct AS much hate.
I guess this is where your play group comes into consideration. For my play group, it's the opposite. We essentially have a house ban on Kiki–Jiki and Krenko hardly ever causes a problem. We don't play with every single commander, granted, but some people are going to hate certain cards more than others, and are going to attack the person who's running Rafiq or Jarad straight out because they know what kinds of shenanigans they can pull.
I personally am someone who thinks that you can pull a good strategy out of any commander, so it's best to keep everyone at the table in equal consideration at first
Having said that, the invasion block dragons can be really fun to play and generally nobody will flip out when they see one initially.
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I rarely will truly let my guard down around decks any more. That said, there are certainly generals that I enjoy playing against more and might put less pressure on for that reason, or because there is a perceived larger threat in the game. Rarely is there a general that I would explicitly classify as a lesser threat, though, just less obvious threats. Part of this is in how one looks at generals. If one looks at any general and immediately has at least five ideas for how to build a deck, then almost any general can show potential to be terrifying.
I've been running a Treva, the Renewer deck recently. The small amounts of life gain have shored up some worries, like I block unfavorably far less often. People also often just don't respect a 6/6 flier that does commander damage. The rest of the list is enchantress, and Treva pulls her weight without being very threatening.
This is all really dependent on your meta because threat assessment is unique to each player and situation so you may as well play something not obviously broken and hope for the best. When a player shows up with an obviously weak general my mind goes to one of two possibilities: 1. they have no clue what they are doing or 2. they know Exactly what they are doing and exactly how they are going to do it. In both cases they are generally the first to go because people fear the unknown.
The solution to this is to bring a middle of the pack commander like, the already mentioned, Invasion or Timespiral dragons (while targeted LD can be used very politically I would advise against Numot, the Devastator). These kind of generals are well known enough to not paint the "I'm weak" target on you but not strong enough to not make people think you are going to do something really stupid.
Older generals are also less likely to draw immediate hate because fewer people are likely to play them and know what they do.
When people don't understand hazezon they think " why would a person run a general with such a drawback?" and he doesn't get taken seriously. Also I don't run it but the commander that immediately came to mind was blue braids.
I've had this experience with Mirri, Cat Warrior. It's nice, because I drop her on turn 3, and she gets left alone. And I mostly get left alone, while people deal with more dangerous threats.
That used to work for me, until the fifth game or so when Mirri started one- and two-shotting people out of nowhere around turn 7 or so. Now she gets boatloads of respect.
I'm tempted to see if I can lull people with a Mirri the Cursed deck, but I already run two mono-black decks.
Your post reminds me I need to add Song of Dryads to my Mirri deck, though.
Gahiji, Honored One is I think the strongest card you will find that meets your criteria.
I really, really like this idea. Never heard anyone talk about him since the precons came out and his ability is useful without being threatening.
Gahiji is quite powerful, especially in tokens decks. He does tend to be under-rated the first time or two people see him, then they realize how insane he can get when practically everything gets +2/+0.
Gahiji, Honored One is I think the strongest card you will find that meets your criteria.
I really, really like this idea. Never heard anyone talk about him since the precons came out and his ability is useful without being threatening.
Gahiji is quite powerful, especially in tokens decks. He does tend to be under-rated the first time or two people see him, then they realize how insane he can get when practically everything gets +2/+0.
Evenmore so he works really well in a zoo/hatebear style deck even better. He allows my bears to be more khan style bears...
But if you are looking for a commander that goes under the commander just don't use one of the commanders that everyone expect for that said game plan.
When people don't understand hazezon they think " why would a person run a general with such a drawback?" and he doesn't get taken seriously. Also I don't run it but the commander that immediately came to mind was blue braids.
I've disagreed with many assertions in this thread, but I don't think many people if anyone thinks Hazezon Tamar is a sleeper Commander. He is sufficiently expensive and difficult to acquire showing some capacity to fund a good deck and that you have the knowledge to appreciate older Commanders beyond Angus Mckenzie. In reality, he is one of the best Naya Commanders and I would him much more seriously than Mayael or anything outside and probably including Uril or Marath based on the player and their known deck style.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Ten year old or older dual colour legends that aren't terrible but aren't memorably good tend to fly under the radar very well.
An example is pretty much any of the original Ravnica guild leaders or guild champions, except Savra, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, or Niv-Mizzet (obviously dangerous cards).
What I have noticed isn't so much the Generals that I evaluate, but the cards they play. For example, a Sydri deck -- not really sure what to expect, but as soon as they play a Dismal Backwater, I will let my guard down a bit. Now, if they lead with Mishra's Workshop instead, that's obviously a very different story.
Secondly, if they are playing a mono-colored general, I tend to evaluate them as less of a threat than multi-colored generals, as they have less tools to work with.
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You're correct to take him seriously. In my extended playgroup, however, people don't get the delayed trigger. Not a sleeper but certainly often misunderstood. I agree with everything you said.
I think the Theros gods are perfect for this.Their powers aren't usually very flashy or scary and are also very hard to get rid of so you don't need to worry mutch about them
The closest I'll ever get to letting my guard down is being curious about a deck's capabilities. If someone comes to the game with say, Ayesha Tanaka, I'll wonder what could possess them to choose her over Sydri, Galvanic Genius, for example. In that case I'll probably focus on the opponents I know are threats while I wait to see what their deck can do. If they can find some kooky combo that lets them squeeze out a win, I'll be impressed.
When my friend plays his Hanna, Ship's Navigator deck he generally does nothing substantial for the first 10 turns of the game. Pillowforting and just making it undesirable to attack him until he wipes the board and lands something dumb like Eldrazi Conscription or a mammoth Storm Herd/White Sun's Zenith. When he wins it's out of nowhere because you generally forgot he was playing.
My wonderful Squee deck, new and old players look at him and have no clue what my deck does. It originally was a crappt mono red control deck that abused Squee to discard outlets until I realized it was actually pretty good. A few years later it's a very powerful mono red control with a huge artifact theme. Basically a souped up version of the red precon except mine is years older.
New opponents never suspect Squee.
Someone a page or so back mentioned something similar, but I tend to let my guard down when someone plays a general that has me intrigued, either because I'm wondering what the deck does or, occasionally, because I am thinking of building with that general and am interested in seeing what the other player has done.
This came back to bite me recently when one of my regular opponents tried out his Shu Yun deck. I was still in the process of figuring out how I wanted to approach my now-being-built Shu Yun deck, so I wanted to see the other guy's ideas, and I probably was paying too much attention to what interesting things he was doing and not enough to how dangerous his deck was, because suddenly he killed me out of nowhere.
Some choices of general, though, I'm always curious what the player's up to. Squee, Xira Arien, under-powered or over-costed Legends or Homelands generals that don't lend themselves easily to any specific build... I almost always get more intrigued than cautious about those sorts of generals.
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I really, really like this idea. Never heard anyone talk about him since the precons came out and his ability is useful without being threatening.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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I see other decks show up as well But perhaps something obscure. I mean No one expected Patron of the moon to be violent until i pulled off a C.rift Overload and then Sunder. However if you are going Political, Ruhan of the Fomori may be a very good bet. You can make a deck that has him attack who you want. And he is a 7/7 body for 4 mana. Nothing spectacular about him but hey why should you care? Throw on some invasion and a few boosts, a 7/7 now becomes deadly and they were too busy focusing on the guy running Azami.
Sadly even with a Blah general, a lot of decks see what you do the first game and decide if you are a threat or not for the next game. If you pulverize them, the mentality sees you as a major threat.
I mean with Superfreinds, I managed to kill a table by getting 21 Extra turn after exploding since i was able to Play ral zarek and then get too many coin flips. (Rings of Brighthearth, The Chain Veil, and Doubling Seasons (Yes plural, Copy enchantment and clever imposer)
Now while the deck is not top tier by any means, If they see Ral Zarek come out I become public enemy #1. The good part about my deck though is when i start playing multiple PWs a turn. They have to decided which one is the biggest threat.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I guess this is where your play group comes into consideration. For my play group, it's the opposite. We essentially have a house ban on Kiki–Jiki and Krenko hardly ever causes a problem. We don't play with every single commander, granted, but some people are going to hate certain cards more than others, and are going to attack the person who's running Rafiq or Jarad straight out because they know what kinds of shenanigans they can pull.
I personally am someone who thinks that you can pull a good strategy out of any commander, so it's best to keep everyone at the table in equal consideration at first
Having said that, the invasion block dragons can be really fun to play and generally nobody will flip out when they see one initially.
BMickey and the Zombies
WThings That Fly With Spears
G
Did You Just Main Phase an Ambush Viper?BGCulling Dais Lolziness a la 1-2 drop Cube
Standard
WBGAbzan Outlast
EDH
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
WGRhys the Redeemed and Those not quite
UBWrexial, the Risen Deep (work in progress)
BBalthor the Defiled (work in progress)
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
The solution to this is to bring a middle of the pack commander like, the already mentioned, Invasion or Timespiral dragons (while targeted LD can be used very politically I would advise against Numot, the Devastator). These kind of generals are well known enough to not paint the "I'm weak" target on you but not strong enough to not make people think you are going to do something really stupid.
Older generals are also less likely to draw immediate hate because fewer people are likely to play them and know what they do.
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
That used to work for me, until the fifth game or so when Mirri started one- and two-shotting people out of nowhere around turn 7 or so. Now she gets boatloads of respect.
I'm tempted to see if I can lull people with a Mirri the Cursed deck, but I already run two mono-black decks.
Your post reminds me I need to add Song of Dryads to my Mirri deck, though.
Gahiji is quite powerful, especially in tokens decks. He does tend to be under-rated the first time or two people see him, then they realize how insane he can get when practically everything gets +2/+0.
Evenmore so he works really well in a zoo/hatebear style deck even better. He allows my bears to be more khan style bears...
But if you are looking for a commander that goes under the commander just don't use one of the commanders that everyone expect for that said game plan.
I've disagreed with many assertions in this thread, but I don't think many people if anyone thinks Hazezon Tamar is a sleeper Commander. He is sufficiently expensive and difficult to acquire showing some capacity to fund a good deck and that you have the knowledge to appreciate older Commanders beyond Angus Mckenzie. In reality, he is one of the best Naya Commanders and I would him much more seriously than Mayael or anything outside and probably including Uril or Marath based on the player and their known deck style.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
An example is pretty much any of the original Ravnica guild leaders or guild champions, except Savra, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, or Niv-Mizzet (obviously dangerous cards).
Secondly, if they are playing a mono-colored general, I tend to evaluate them as less of a threat than multi-colored generals, as they have less tools to work with.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
That taught me not to make such an efficient early game play in a multiplayer environment.
New opponents never suspect Squee.
Nicol Bolas, a balance of Vorthos and PowerUBR
Nath of the Gilt LeafBG
Others
Squee, Goblin of AwesomenessR
Nekusar, the Mindblazer!UBR
Vela the NightcladUB
I used to be a world champion, but then I took a wolf to the knee. And three Galvanic Blasts to the face.
Concerning when returning to Kamigawa would be acceptable
This came back to bite me recently when one of my regular opponents tried out his Shu Yun deck. I was still in the process of figuring out how I wanted to approach my now-being-built Shu Yun deck, so I wanted to see the other guy's ideas, and I probably was paying too much attention to what interesting things he was doing and not enough to how dangerous his deck was, because suddenly he killed me out of nowhere.
Some choices of general, though, I'm always curious what the player's up to. Squee, Xira Arien, under-powered or over-costed Legends or Homelands generals that don't lend themselves easily to any specific build... I almost always get more intrigued than cautious about those sorts of generals.