I've been pretty fond of tossing Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl into nearly every green list I've built in the last year or so.
Most of the time, I'd prefer Forest + Sprawl to Forest > Green Sun > Dryad Arbor first turn.
Pros:
G Means I can play it first turn - one of the cheapest means of acceleration.
Very inexpensive ($-wise) to add to existing G decks.
No worse than drawing a dead mana rock late game.
Enchantments usually stick around a little longer than artifacts.
Playing it on a basic land synergizes well with Earthcraft.
Having it on a basic land still won't be a better Strip Mine target than Coffers, Cradle or Nykthos.
Cons:
Dead draw late game.
Not true ramp - most board wipe will remove this.
If there are no better Strip Mine targets out, this will be a likely target.
It's basically a mana rock that costs G. If you need G early on and don't have it, this is no help.
What have been your experiences with these cards ?
The only experience I have with these cards is in a deck with an "untap target land" theme. They're really strong in that context. Aside from the cons you mentioned Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl can lead to some awkward opening hands if you play Karoo-lands.
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They're like mini Sol Rings. If you're going for fast plays, both cards are quite strong. You forgot a mini con that separates them form mana producing artifacts like Fellwar Stone: they turn your lands into karoos, so you must always spend both mana in the same phase. Sad if you have a Tropical Island with a "red" Utopia Sprawl and Pyroblast and Swan Song in hand
I've never really used them, just because of the fact that they are such a dead draw in the late game. But I guess if you were running an enchantress package, then it wouldn't be so bad when it shows up turn 9 or 10.
I like Fertile Ground in 3-color enchantress and other enchantments-matter decks for the mana fixing. Utopia Sprawl too, if the deck runs enough forests, and Trace of Abundance in Naya. I typically stay away from Wild Growth because it only makes G, but in monogreen without an enchantment synergy it seems about equivalent to Llanowar Elves.
These cards are obviously at their best in Enchantress type decks (which actually reminds me, I have a casual deck that runs Constellation shenanigans and has been packing Avacyn's Pilgrim as one drop ramp, but Utopia Sprawl is so much better for the deck, brb making that change).
Even outside of an Enchantress deck though, these cards are hard to compete with. They're less vulnerable than Llanowar Elves type ramp cards, as they don't die to creature wraths and Grave Pact effects, only full sweepers like Akroma's Vengeance/Planar Cleansing/Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone. But so do Mana Rocks (barring Darksteel Ingot), and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who would tell you mana rocks are bad just because they get blown up by sweepers. Also, unlike the elves, they can produce their mana right away if cast on an untapped land, which makes them better on later turns. They also combine well with land untapping effects like Arbor Elf, Earthcraft, Krosan Restorer, etc.
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I feel like I'm in the minority playing them - and I run Earthcrafts in every single green deck I play.
Earthcraft is so helpful mid-to-late game for hardly any investment at all - there's no reason not to play it if you can.
I'd like to see a functional reprint or two of the wild growth effects - I would likely play all versions with a CMC of 1.
I'm not a huge fan of incrementally-small acceleration that can get caught up in an oblivion stone, but I have lots of fond memories of powering out turn-four Regal Forces in 60-card casual off the backs of these cards and arbor elfs.
I ran these for a long time in Shattergang Brothers, and I was pretty happy with them. I could sac them to my commander for value, but had no other synergies. Over time, the curve has gone down and the artifact sub-theme has grown, and the enchantments came out.
Personally, I wouldn't run these without some other synergy in the deck to take advantage of them. My playgroup is just way too prepared to play spells like Acidic Slime ASAP rather than hold on to them and treat them like removal.
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Unfortunately there's a high proportion of crucible, LFTL, cloudstone curios, goblin settlers, sun titans, acidic slimes, terastodons, etc. In an enchantress deck where you can defend it with greater auramancy or recur with replenish/otv, I like them, but our group is pretty land hate heavy Putting pants on your lands is an invitation to get timewalked for most decks.
Even aside from meta considerations, I'm generally against setting up plays that invite 2-for-1's (or worse) like land enchantments in EDH.
And conversely, if someone has crucible and strip mine out (2 card combo), the game is now a 3 v 1. I understand not playing them in your meta, but I treat this kind of ramp as temporary anyways, like artifact ramp or mana dorks. It's there to power things out. I'm OK with someone strip mining a land of mine after I've dropped a huge threat.
Yeah, I'm not sure why but land enchantments seem to draw more aggro than mana rocks. Logically they are similar, except for the temptation to 2-for-1 someone.
they aren't all that bad.. i use them as a budget 'ramp'. but like you said, its not very good late game. having said that though, if your opponents see you playing those, they'd probably giggle to themselves thinking you're playing a very budget deck or something.
I think there's just not a lot of space where these cards would make a good home. They can be worse than alternatives in both super-fast and super-slow areas.
In those super-fast Stax/Combo metas, players will laugh at a Volrath's Stronghold, but lick their lips at a Karoo or a Utopia Sprawl. Those in it for the long game only care about how much mana it produces. These areas also tend to run few creature wipes, at least outside of small Red ones, and so Arbor Elf variants are just fine there.
Also in really slow, Goodstuff metas, players will question why they're not running Rampant Growth instead. Usually it is enough to just be productive with your Turn 2's, if that, and there are even a lot of players who pass right up until Turn 3 where they cast Cultivate. And if your deck is built the same way, there is no point to Turn 1 ramp is you are just passing until 5-6 mana. These areas are also wipe-heavy. So when that O-stone does go off, you maybe had one or two solid turns out of mana production out of it. It's 100% safe by comparison to just pay 1 more mana and get a land.
Also, each style of meta has their own style of mana base. To be able to run these in a 3-color deck, you have to have fetches and duals. If you do have them, it's more likely you're in a meta that will Strip Mine your land for mana than the other kind of meta. If you have a more budget mana base in a slower area, the games where you're waiting for a Forest of some type to be able to cast it are pretty significant.
1) you can play it first turn pretty reliably
2) there's not many other 1-drop accelerants in the deck
3) being one mana up turn 2 or 3 significantly helps you to start playing business spells
Would it then be reasonable to consider this for inclusion ?
1) you can play it first turn pretty reliably
2) there's not many other 1-drop accelerants in the deck
3) being one mana up turn 2 or 3 significantly helps you to start playing business spells
Would it then be reasonable to consider this for inclusion ?
What colors is the deck?
I'd probably only be comfortable with, say, 15-16 Forest or Forest fetches. Mostly only a problem for 3 color decks. With 1/3 land in your deck as a Forest, you've got (2/3)^X chance of NOT having a Forest, where X is the number of Land in your hand. Suppose if you have 3 land in your opener and one of these, you don't want to throw that back. With 2 land you might, might not. So to have one of the three as a Forest, you've got about 70% chance, just eyeballing it. You bring that up to about 80% with 16/38 land as Forest-ready.
But other than that, I mean yeah, you're only worried about getting 2 for 1'd. If you're not facing that and you're casting business spells on 3-4 mana, at first glance that would indicate a power disparity to me. But it might not.
I played Wild Growth in my Nylea deck, because it's a ramp spell that retains devotion. If they destroy it with a non-recursive card, they'll regret it later, there are much more important lands than taking a quick two-for-one.
In my opinion, they are solid depending on the rest of your deck and your meta. Obviously, these are all stars in enchantress decks. But if there are a lot of wraths in your meta, this card is solid when you need a 1 mana ramp spell. I mean, people play Llanowar Elves. Why not play the same thing that doesnt get wrathed?
The reason i dont run it in my own green deck is because of Bane of Progress and Oblivion Stone. Lands are more valuable than enchantments in my deck.
Most of the time, I'd prefer Forest + Sprawl to Forest > Green Sun > Dryad Arbor first turn.
Pros:
Cons:
What have been your experiences with these cards ?
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Even outside of an Enchantress deck though, these cards are hard to compete with. They're less vulnerable than Llanowar Elves type ramp cards, as they don't die to creature wraths and Grave Pact effects, only full sweepers like Akroma's Vengeance/Planar Cleansing/Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone. But so do Mana Rocks (barring Darksteel Ingot), and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who would tell you mana rocks are bad just because they get blown up by sweepers. Also, unlike the elves, they can produce their mana right away if cast on an untapped land, which makes them better on later turns. They also combine well with land untapping effects like Arbor Elf, Earthcraft, Krosan Restorer, etc.
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Earthcraft is so helpful mid-to-late game for hardly any investment at all - there's no reason not to play it if you can.
I'd like to see a functional reprint or two of the wild growth effects - I would likely play all versions with a CMC of 1.
Personally, I wouldn't run these without some other synergy in the deck to take advantage of them. My playgroup is just way too prepared to play spells like Acidic Slime ASAP rather than hold on to them and treat them like removal.
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I would definitely run them in your meta if you run stuff like Gaea's Cradle, Maze of Ith, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx if it's that easy to bait Stip Mine's.
Even aside from meta considerations, I'm generally against setting up plays that invite 2-for-1's (or worse) like land enchantments in EDH.
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In those super-fast Stax/Combo metas, players will laugh at a Volrath's Stronghold, but lick their lips at a Karoo or a Utopia Sprawl. Those in it for the long game only care about how much mana it produces. These areas also tend to run few creature wipes, at least outside of small Red ones, and so Arbor Elf variants are just fine there.
Also in really slow, Goodstuff metas, players will question why they're not running Rampant Growth instead. Usually it is enough to just be productive with your Turn 2's, if that, and there are even a lot of players who pass right up until Turn 3 where they cast Cultivate. And if your deck is built the same way, there is no point to Turn 1 ramp is you are just passing until 5-6 mana. These areas are also wipe-heavy. So when that O-stone does go off, you maybe had one or two solid turns out of mana production out of it. It's 100% safe by comparison to just pay 1 more mana and get a land.
Also, each style of meta has their own style of mana base. To be able to run these in a 3-color deck, you have to have fetches and duals. If you do have them, it's more likely you're in a meta that will Strip Mine your land for mana than the other kind of meta. If you have a more budget mana base in a slower area, the games where you're waiting for a Forest of some type to be able to cast it are pretty significant.
1) you can play it first turn pretty reliably
2) there's not many other 1-drop accelerants in the deck
3) being one mana up turn 2 or 3 significantly helps you to start playing business spells
Would it then be reasonable to consider this for inclusion ?
What colors is the deck?
I'd probably only be comfortable with, say, 15-16 Forest or Forest fetches. Mostly only a problem for 3 color decks. With 1/3 land in your deck as a Forest, you've got (2/3)^X chance of NOT having a Forest, where X is the number of Land in your hand. Suppose if you have 3 land in your opener and one of these, you don't want to throw that back. With 2 land you might, might not. So to have one of the three as a Forest, you've got about 70% chance, just eyeballing it. You bring that up to about 80% with 16/38 land as Forest-ready.
But other than that, I mean yeah, you're only worried about getting 2 for 1'd. If you're not facing that and you're casting business spells on 3-4 mana, at first glance that would indicate a power disparity to me. But it might not.
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It seems like it's a divisive card that has been played a little - but could probably be played beneficially in more decks.
The reason i dont run it in my own green deck is because of Bane of Progress and Oblivion Stone. Lands are more valuable than enchantments in my deck.