I received a lot of valuable help with my last thread so I figured I should make another one since the last one went so well.
In this thread I would like people's opinions on which card I should run.
On paper, it looks like Setessan Tactics should win by a mile. However, in practice it just feels awkward. Sometimes the +1/+1 isnt enough when +2/+2 would suffice. The fact that Tactics requires my creatures to tap makes it really awful. I have no ways to grant haste so more often then not, its a turn too slow. Granted, the possibility of wrathing my opponents board is appealing, However, since ive ran it, it has only happened once. On top of that, every time Ive had tactics in hand, I wish it was the punch or even Prey Upon just so I can swing in. For example, if I have a big creature, I would like to attack with it, not waste a turn fighting when I could do both with Punch.
My general also has 4 power so Ill be able to trigger ferocious pretty easily. Not to mention, the main reason I want to run punch is because of Consecrated Sphinx. Yeva with Punch can take care of Sphinx by herself while with Tactics, it requires another another creature and I cant attack that turn since I have to tap my team.
1. It's spelled Setessan Tactics. Could you fix your link?
2. I'm a fan of Tactics's ability to strive and it's instant speed. With strive you can really clear a board.
3. What's the largest base powered critter in deck?
Here's the thing, Savage Punch is a offensive card, and Setessan Tactics is a defensive one. Savage Punch is for when you want to smash faces, and Setessan Tactics is better for punishing someone for overextending. Tactics works best when there's someone you want to blow out at the EOT before yours begins, so you can turn up the heat without leaving yourself wide open. Punch is better when you have an evasive threat and there's a guy that just needs to die.
I'm probably gonna argue for Tactics in this case. Giving the ability to multiple creatures (which, in mono-green, should be huge fatties) can swing games, and it can be used after declare blockers to essentially grant your creatures a weaker double strike if so you choose. While Punch is a solid removal spell, I'd rather give it to multiple creatures with Tactics, or be able to fight repeatedly (Ulvenwald Tracker)
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"When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten!" Currently Piloting: EDH BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer) WBRKaalia of The Vast URGRiku of Two Reflections WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius UBRamirez DePietro GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
1. It's spelled Setessan Tactics. Could you fix your link?
2. I'm a fan of Tactics's ability to strive and it's instant speed. With strive you can really clear a board.
3. What's the largest base powered critter in deck?
Thank you for pointing out my mispelling. And the largest base power in my deck is 6
Here's the thing, Savage Punch is a offensive card, and Setessan Tactics is a defensive one. Savage Punch is for when you want to smash faces, and Setessan Tactics is better for punishing someone for overextending. Tactics works best when there's someone you want to blow out at the EOT before yours begins, so you can turn up the heat without leaving yourself wide open. Punch is better when you have an evasive threat and there's a guy that just needs to die.
I'm probably gonna argue for Tactics in this case. Giving the ability to multiple creatures (which, in mono-green, should be huge fatties) can swing games, and it can be used after declare blockers to essentially grant your creatures a weaker double strike if so you choose. While Punch is a solid removal spell, I'd rather give it to multiple creatures with Tactics, or be able to fight repeatedly (Ulvenwald Tracker)
First off, I already run Tracker, and he does work. Second, you point out that you want to blow out your opponent's board at EOT. That's how it seems on paper and like I stated in my original post, it surprisingly only happened once the whole time I've ran this card. The fact that it requires my creatures to bypass summoning sickness is why maybe I am not having any blowout potential. I play my big creature but it won't be able to fight that turn cycle because it doesn't have haste. Next, you state that it can be used after declare blockers step. The thing is, if I have for example a 6/6 and a 4/4 in play and my opponent has a 5/5. I play tactics, pump both my creatures, fight my 6/6 with my opponent's 5/5 and swing for 5. In contrast, if I had Punch, I could fight and swing for 12. Swinging for 5 and swinging for 12 is a huge difference. And these type of situations come up a lot when I have Tactics in hand.
You do bring up a good point about how Punch is offensive while Tactics is defensive. And I agree. But I would also like to point out that Savage Punch is much more efficient. Maybe it's due to the fact that I am so afraid of my opponent dropping Consecrated Sphinx on turn 5 and Tactics isn't doing what it's supposed to do, which is be a removal spell. And in that specific scenario, which happens a lot, I would much rather have Punch instead. Overall, it seems like Tactics is just too situational for me.
As I have never actually had Setessan Tactics in hand, the haste/tap part had escaped me. Still, the potential for hitting multiples will keep it in my deck.
If you're playing creatures with deathtouch, Setessan Tactics is insane. I've used it to kill 5+ creatures many times.
Being an instant is also very good. Savage Punch may allow for a more offensive turn, but is a much worse card in a game where you need to attack several times to win.
Savage Punch being sorcery makes it harder for you to play against Consecrated Sphinx's controller's counterspells.
The good thing about this situation (as opposed to the Ugin scenario last time) is that there's little to no cost involved in swapping out for Savage Punch and getting in some actual playtesting, as neither Tactics or Punch are anywhere near expensive to obtain, nor do they necessarily give you much incentive to play both.
I think one of the issues you're having with Setessan Tactics is that unlike other G decks, you don't have as much use for a haste enabler, as Yeva's flash acts as an enabler in most cases; save this one. In the general case, I agree with the prevailing consensus that Tactics is the superior card, but at the very least, your deck is as well positioned as it could be to make use of Savage Punch.
Savage Punch does have one advantage in Voltron decks, but that's about it. Otherwise, instant speed > an extra +1/+1, even before you consider the strive cost. (O hai again kicker! Didn't see you there.)
Savage Punch is still a good secondary option.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I would say you've already decided on Savage Punch in your OP. I feel like this thread is more asking for people to confirm you're right.
While most people here still think that tactics is better due to the potential value I'll go against the grain and say that savage punch is better.
The lack of needing to tap your creature is really big, and the extra +1/+1 goes a long way. Savage Punch is the "Sure thing" while tactics is more likely to come up a dead card.
Either way, your OP seemed pretty dead set on using Savage Punch so just swap them out and see if it actually is better.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
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I received a lot of valuable help with my last thread so I figured I should make another one since the last one went so well.
In this thread I would like people's opinions on which card I should run.
On paper, it looks like Setessan Tactics should win by a mile. However, in practice it just feels awkward. Sometimes the +1/+1 isnt enough when +2/+2 would suffice. The fact that Tactics requires my creatures to tap makes it really awful. I have no ways to grant haste so more often then not, its a turn too slow. Granted, the possibility of wrathing my opponents board is appealing, However, since ive ran it, it has only happened once. On top of that, every time Ive had tactics in hand, I wish it was the punch or even Prey Upon just so I can swing in. For example, if I have a big creature, I would like to attack with it, not waste a turn fighting when I could do both with Punch.
My general also has 4 power so Ill be able to trigger ferocious pretty easily. Not to mention, the main reason I want to run punch is because of Consecrated Sphinx. Yeva with Punch can take care of Sphinx by herself while with Tactics, it requires another another creature and I cant attack that turn since I have to tap my team.
Thoughts?
2. I'm a fan of Tactics's ability to strive and it's instant speed. With strive you can really clear a board.
3. What's the largest base powered critter in deck?
GMasumaro, First to KillG
......meow
I'm probably gonna argue for Tactics in this case. Giving the ability to multiple creatures (which, in mono-green, should be huge fatties) can swing games, and it can be used after declare blockers to essentially grant your creatures a weaker double strike if so you choose. While Punch is a solid removal spell, I'd rather give it to multiple creatures with Tactics, or be able to fight repeatedly (Ulvenwald Tracker)
Currently Piloting:
EDH
BGGlissa, The Traitor - Recursion (Primer)
WBRKaalia of The Vast
URGRiku of Two Reflections
WUBSydri, Galvanic Genius
UBRamirez DePietro
GWKrond, The Dawn-Clad
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage
Modern
UG Infect
Thank you for pointing out my mispelling. And the largest base power in my deck is 6
First off, I already run Tracker, and he does work. Second, you point out that you want to blow out your opponent's board at EOT. That's how it seems on paper and like I stated in my original post, it surprisingly only happened once the whole time I've ran this card. The fact that it requires my creatures to bypass summoning sickness is why maybe I am not having any blowout potential. I play my big creature but it won't be able to fight that turn cycle because it doesn't have haste. Next, you state that it can be used after declare blockers step. The thing is, if I have for example a 6/6 and a 4/4 in play and my opponent has a 5/5. I play tactics, pump both my creatures, fight my 6/6 with my opponent's 5/5 and swing for 5. In contrast, if I had Punch, I could fight and swing for 12. Swinging for 5 and swinging for 12 is a huge difference. And these type of situations come up a lot when I have Tactics in hand.
You do bring up a good point about how Punch is offensive while Tactics is defensive. And I agree. But I would also like to point out that Savage Punch is much more efficient. Maybe it's due to the fact that I am so afraid of my opponent dropping Consecrated Sphinx on turn 5 and Tactics isn't doing what it's supposed to do, which is be a removal spell. And in that specific scenario, which happens a lot, I would much rather have Punch instead. Overall, it seems like Tactics is just too situational for me.
Maybe adding a haste-maker could help? Concordant Crossroads or Akroma's Memorial in monogreen, other options for more colors.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Being an instant is also very good. Savage Punch may allow for a more offensive turn, but is a much worse card in a game where you need to attack several times to win.
Savage Punch being sorcery makes it harder for you to play against Consecrated Sphinx's controller's counterspells.
If you are having that much trouble killing the sphinx because of the 6 toughness, you could play bigger creatures (Cloudthresher) and deathtouch creatures and enablers (Nightshade Peddler, Hornet Queen, Ambush Viper).
Setessan Tactics being instant speed makes it that much better than Savage Punch, as you can kill the Consecrated Sphinx before you draw.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I think one of the issues you're having with Setessan Tactics is that unlike other G decks, you don't have as much use for a haste enabler, as Yeva's flash acts as an enabler in most cases; save this one. In the general case, I agree with the prevailing consensus that Tactics is the superior card, but at the very least, your deck is as well positioned as it could be to make use of Savage Punch.
RRR - Bosh's School of Hard(cover) Knocks
Savage Punch is still a good secondary option.
On phasing:
While most people here still think that tactics is better due to the potential value I'll go against the grain and say that savage punch is better.
The lack of needing to tap your creature is really big, and the extra +1/+1 goes a long way. Savage Punch is the "Sure thing" while tactics is more likely to come up a dead card.
Either way, your OP seemed pretty dead set on using Savage Punch so just swap them out and see if it actually is better.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress