I've been putting together a mono-black, devotion, sacrifice themed deck and I keep seeing cards like Sudden Spoiling. I wouldn't normally think that turning creatures into 0/2s would be that valuable so I'm assuming that Split-Second is what makes this card good.
My question is why is Split-Second so valuable? I can see it putting a stop to someone comboing out, but are there other applications for it that I'm not seeing? How do you use a card like this?
Follow up: if you feel that it's valuable, are there other good mono-black options and how many are worth a slot?
It's nice for combat tricks, or in combination with cards like drown in sorrow. Split second creates some favorable timing situations, but most of the time it's main draw is that it can't be countered.
The main thing the Split-Second part adds is that it prevents the opponent from responding. Say they have Disciple of the Vault, Arcbound Ravager and a 100 artifact tokens on board. If you cast it, they will be unable to sacrifice the artifact tokens to Ravager in response to make you lose 100 life from Disciple and once Sudden Spoiling resolves, neither card has any of their abilities (at least for the rest of the turn). This may not be the best example since they could have done all that before you had priority, but it does show the power of Split Second.
How about this: Kaalia and Avacyn are having a jolly ol' time. You can rain on their parade. Even if it's a UW control player doing it, (minus Kaalia, of course) the best they can hope for it countering their own planar cleansing. That's pretty funny, don't you think?
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I've been putting together a mono-black, devotion, sacrifice themed deck and I keep seeing cards like Sudden Spoiling. I wouldn't normally think that turning creatures into 0/2s would be that valuable so I'm assuming that Split-Second is what makes this card good.
My question is why is Split-Second so valuable? I can see it putting a stop to someone comboing out, but are there other applications for it that I'm not seeing? How do you use a card like this?
Follow up: if you feel that it's valuable, are there other good mono-black options and how many are worth a slot?
Yes, the split second is what makes this card good, but it's also the fact that it takes away creatures' abilities. This card has saved me more than once against Kaalia of the vast, taking away her ability, allowing me to kill her and prevent my opponent from dropping any creatures. Good against hexproof generals that need removal too.
The one I use the most is Word of Seizing. That card has won me an immense amount of games. My favorite was the Liliana Vess I stole and ultimated for est. 30 creatures.
Second favorite? Borrowing Darksteel Forge in response to the Arcum player popping Nevinyrral's Disk
The main thing the Split-Second part adds is that it prevents the opponent from responding. Say they have Disciple of the Vault, Arcbound Ravager and a 100 artifact tokens on board. If you cast it, they will be unable to sacrifice the artifact tokens to Ravager in response to make you lose 100 life from Disciple and once Sudden Spoiling resolves, neither card has any of their abilities (at least for the rest of the turn). This may not be the best example since they could have done all that before you had priority, but it does show the power of Split Second.
Strictly speaking, it doesn't prevent all responses. Triggered abilities still happen, as do things that don't use the stack (e.g., morphs, mana abilities, paying mana to Nafs Asp). So you still have some answers to it.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Sudden spoiling has won me quite a few games. It gets around those pesky hexproof/shroud creatures because it doesn't target the creatures, it targets the player and all creatures they control. And the fact that it has split second means that they can't use their creatures abilities to say bounce them back to their hand or sacrifice them in response or really do anything else to stop them from becoming vanilla 0/2 creatures. Split second spells are also uncounterable because you can't play a spell when it is on the stack.
In addition to the above, it's also usable as a black Fog if need be, a frequently undervalued effect in EDH. (Granted, +1 counters and pump effects still get through)
Another thing people often forget about Split Second is maintaining priority. Suppose you are about to cast a game-winning spell and don't want it countered. Put your game-winner on the stack, maintain priority and play anything with Split Second. Bam, no countering or responses possible. I use Krosan Grip for this purpose quite a bit.
This card makes people mad XD.A had a guy that use Blasphemous Act+ Blood Artist + a bunch of tokens to kill the group and just used Sudden Spoiling to ruin his day and made him very irritated
Another thing people often forget about Split Second is maintaining priority. Suppose you are about to cast a game-winning spell and don't want it countered. Put your game-winner on the stack, maintain priority and play anything with Split Second. Bam, no countering or responses possible. I use Krosan Grip for this purpose quite a bit.
Except that the Split-Second effect only lasts as long as the spell with Split-Second is on the stack.
Grip is no longer on the stack. The counter window (Step 1) already passed. They didn't lose from Grip. They lost when they passed priority on your game-winning spell.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Split second allows you to disassemble some pretty game-ending powerful engines while denying most of the value the engine would have generated. Things like a resolved Greater Good, or Saffi Eriksdotter shenanigans. Sudden Spoiling is probably the strongest but most narrow of the set because it generally requires an additional card or specific circumstances (like combat), but it can shut down just about anything that requires creatures.
Another thing people often forget about Split Second is maintaining priority. Suppose you are about to cast a game-winning spell and don't want it countered. Put your game-winner on the stack, maintain priority and play anything with Split Second. Bam, no countering or responses possible. I use Krosan Grip for this purpose quite a bit.
No responses... until your split second spell resolves. Then they can respond to your game-winner all they want. Objects on the stack resolve one at a time, and everyone gets priority between each of them.
Sudden Death is a greatly underrated removal spell IMO. Deals with a good deal of problem creatures, I used to use it quite heavily against my friend's Necrotic Ooze combo Mimeo deck.
Thanks for all the thoughtful input- very enlightening!
I'm going to test out Sudden Seizing in Daretti too, I had strayed away from it because it costs 5 but I Ult-ing other people's plainswalkers does sound fun
Don't forget that Sudden Spoiling is a great way to stop awful dies- or leaves-play triggers from the likes of Reveillark or Child of Alara!
Honestly, Sudden Seizing has been very hit-or-miss for me. Sometimes it just sits in my hand or gets discarded for profit, but every once in a while it will let me do cool things like steal an opponent's Miren, the Moaning Well so he cannot sacrifice his creature to put himself out of burn range. I stole and ultimated a Dack Fayden once, I guess.
Wipe Away has been the most consistently useful of the bunch for me, interrupting all kinds of shenanigans like Reveillark combo even when they can respond at instant speed. It also makes blue players cry when you bounce their Laboratory Maniac after they Enter the Infinite and have triple counter backup. If Wipe Away were red, I would play it over Sudden Seizing in a heartbeat.
Trickbind and Wipe Away are all-stars in my Melek. They disrupt nearly all infinite combos and can provide protection for my wincons in some situations as well. Plus, Trickbind fits nicely on an Isochron Scepter.
Krosan Grip is hands-down the best artifact/enchantment removal spell in the game, possibly with Deglamer edging it out depending on your meta.
Sudden Death and Sudden Spoiling are both really great at dealing with otherwise difficult-to-remove creatures, both preventing activated abilities and circumventing things like indestructibility. And being able to dodge counterspells is really solid as well.
Angel's Grace is hilarious when you have an opportunity to use it, but kind of narrow.
There's a reason I run Willbender in all of my blue decks, and this ability is exactly it.
...for some curious and non-related reason, this topic has made me rethink about the value of split second and maybe add them around my decks. Just a bit.
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My question is why is Split-Second so valuable? I can see it putting a stop to someone comboing out, but are there other applications for it that I'm not seeing? How do you use a card like this?
Follow up: if you feel that it's valuable, are there other good mono-black options and how many are worth a slot?
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Yes, the split second is what makes this card good, but it's also the fact that it takes away creatures' abilities. This card has saved me more than once against Kaalia of the vast, taking away her ability, allowing me to kill her and prevent my opponent from dropping any creatures. Good against hexproof generals that need removal too.
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The one I use the most is Word of Seizing. That card has won me an immense amount of games. My favorite was the Liliana Vess I stole and ultimated for est. 30 creatures.
Second favorite? Borrowing Darksteel Forge in response to the Arcum player popping Nevinyrral's Disk
Strictly speaking, it doesn't prevent all responses. Triggered abilities still happen, as do things that don't use the stack (e.g., morphs, mana abilities, paying mana to Nafs Asp). So you still have some answers to it.
On phasing:
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Except that the Split-Second effect only lasts as long as the spell with Split-Second is on the stack.
1) Game Winning Spell
2) Krosan Grip
3) Krosan Grip resolves
Grip is no longer on the stack. The counter window (Step 1) already passed. They didn't lose from Grip. They lost when they passed priority on your game-winning spell.
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I'm going to test out Sudden Seizing in Daretti too, I had strayed away from it because it costs 5 but I Ult-ing other people's plainswalkers does sound fun
Honestly, Sudden Seizing has been very hit-or-miss for me. Sometimes it just sits in my hand or gets discarded for profit, but every once in a while it will let me do cool things like steal an opponent's Miren, the Moaning Well so he cannot sacrifice his creature to put himself out of burn range. I stole and ultimated a Dack Fayden once, I guess.
Wipe Away has been the most consistently useful of the bunch for me, interrupting all kinds of shenanigans like Reveillark combo even when they can respond at instant speed. It also makes blue players cry when you bounce their Laboratory Maniac after they Enter the Infinite and have triple counter backup. If Wipe Away were red, I would play it over Sudden Seizing in a heartbeat.
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Krosan Grip is hands-down the best artifact/enchantment removal spell in the game, possibly with Deglamer edging it out depending on your meta.
Sudden Death and Sudden Spoiling are both really great at dealing with otherwise difficult-to-remove creatures, both preventing activated abilities and circumventing things like indestructibility. And being able to dodge counterspells is really solid as well.
Angel's Grace is hilarious when you have an opportunity to use it, but kind of narrow.
There's a reason I run Willbender in all of my blue decks, and this ability is exactly it.