Here is a card I love. From the power level to thr flavor text, I just..love it.
And yet I always seem to cut because it just..feels bad. It wins games out of nowhere and almost always gets groans.
It's technically still in my list, but I find myself swapping it out for Trepanation Blade against most opponents because at least that has a chance to more or less "whiff" whereas Hatred is an "I win" so long as I have more life.
But I have a problem not including a card for being "too good".
I got to play with it when I had my "Shotgun Skithiryx" list. Outside that, I haven't gotten to play with it since then, mostly due to being unsure where to put it. I don't have a problem with it, heck I even play Tainted Strike sometimes, it's just that I don't like holding 5 mana up if someone else swings nor do I like paying the 5 if I'm unsure how I'm dealing with everyone else.
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EDH UBX - Milling Zombie Horde (now with spliced mana!)
I actually forgot hatred existed, and now I really want to try it out in my Ghoulcaller Gisa list! Pay X life: make X extra zombies sounds pretty awesome!
One thing a lot ofp eople forget is that it's great in a voltron deck for 2 reasons.
1- It can pump for lessl ife to still grant lethal.
2- It's great for surprising people and as an alternate win-con. Swing your general, they block it but leave solemn unblocked, pay life and kill. Best for killing the last guy, but on a lifelinker you just need to be reasonably sure it'll hit.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I love Hatred. It does so much work throwing it into a non-voltron deck with your standard black tutors. All of a sudden you have got a very reasonable voltron package to close down a game that is down to heads up or take out an early threat and all you have invested is a single card slot. It is especially good in xiahou dun, the one-eyed where your general is unblockable and you can re-use it to take out multiple players. Hatred also loves vampire nighthawk.
The downside, and the reason it gets cut from a lot of more tuned lists is that it is a very risky move, especially early game. If anyone has instant speed removal you are all of a sudden down half your life or more not to mention the card and the turn. The more counters and removal you come across the more likely you are to have hatred wiff or blow you out altogether.
I love Hatred. It does so much work throwing it into a non-voltron deck with your standard black tutors. All of a sudden you have got a very reasonable voltron package to close down a game that is down to heads up or take out an early threat and all you have invested is a single card slot. It is especially good in xiahou dun, the one-eyed where your general is unblockable and you can re-use it to take out multiple players. Hatred also loves vampire nighthawk.
The downside, and the reason it gets cut from a lot of more tuned lists is that it is a very risky move, especially early game. If anyone has instant speed removal you are all of a sudden down half your life or more not to mention the card and the turn. The more counters and removal you come across the more likely you are to have hatred wiff or blow you out altogether.
Pretty much what I was going to say. Pretty funny when used on vampire nighthawk and other lifelink things, but it is a super risky card. All it takes is one removal option and you basically played a suicide card. (Crop Rotation into Maze of Ith, gg).
I actually forgot hatred existed, and now I really want to try it out in my Ghoulcaller Gisa list! Pay X life: make X extra zombies sounds pretty awesome!
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I think that the stigma around Hatred is that its really good at killing one player, but it leaves you too vulnerable in multiplayer. I think that there is a bit of truth to that sentiment, but as others pointed out there are ways to not use up the majority of your life in order to kill a player (via Infect, Commander damage, Double Strike, Fling effects, etc.). You probably shouldn't just add it to any deck, but it can be a useful tool in a deck prepared to take advantage of it.
A guy at my LGS runs Mirri the Cursed with this. I have been on the recieving end of a T3 kill a few times courtesy of that broken piece of crap Sol Ring. Not fun, I can tell ya. But Mirri DOES make for a great general to abuse this card with.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
a buddy of mine had a wydwen, the biting gale deck with hatred in it. He was always flashing in his general at EOT then killing someone with hatred on his turn with it. I think hatred is great, especially if you have lifelink creatures/equipment.
Played against it Friday & it was very effective. Jakalova was running it in Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath. After going down to 6 he was able to ultimate his commander & recoup a lot of his life thru several creatures sacs over the next few turns. Strong deck even foregoing tutors.
I can see it being really good in the right deck (heck, I might even pop it in Zurgo as a "gotcha" card) but for the most part in my meta I don't think it would be worth the risk. We always play 3-6 player multiplayer games, so the return on investment isn't good enough unless you have a lot of lifegain and/or you're willing to be the guy who kills 1-2 players and then dies. There's just too many people to kill and too much instant-speed removal floating around.
Reasons I'm not a huge fan (but still like the card):
1. It depends on combat. Combat is a squishy way to win in many metas. It is easy to disrupt and prevent combat wins.
2. It only deals with one opponent at a time. If you don't run it with a lifelinker it can be risky unless its a late game play when you're 1v1 with someone.
3. Its payment is part of the cost. So if it gets countered or the creature is killed before damage resolves you are SOL.
Its best use would probably be in a Grixis deck where you can run infect spells, extra combat step methods, extra turns, stuff like Relearn, lifelink creatures, tutors and counterspells. But that is a lot of resources dedicated to one win condition.
It takes a lot of mana, but between all the Crypt Ghasts and Caged Suns and Cabal Coffers out there it is still pretty easy to come by in RB. Doing it to an infect creature and tapping Boseiju, Who Shelters All is a neat way to kill the whole table out of nowhere, too. Everybody fears Blightsteel, but a Viral Drake? I mean, it's only one point right?
I just traded for a copy of Hatred to put in my Selenia deck. I look forward to using it. That actually wants its life total low in order to swap life, so it should be perfect.
I use Hatred in my Selenia deck. Great, great Voltron card. You might also want to consider Empyrial Plate if you're playing with stuff like Ad Nauseum and Necropotence for that voltron kill
@Elvish Sniper: Wow, nice combo with Ghoulcaller Gisa. Never thought of that.
In the spirit of the necro, I'll just say that I love hatred, but lately I've found the life loss to be harder to manage with cards like Necropotence. I still work it into every black deck I build though. So far, every general has had a way to take advantage of it. Toshiro can recur it, and it's an amazing card to hit with on Jeleva.
Reasons I'm not a huge fan (but still like the card):
1. It depends on combat. Combat is a squishy way to win in many metas. It is easy to disrupt and prevent combat wins.
2. It only deals with one opponent at a time. If you don't run it with a lifelinker it can be risky unless its a late game play when you're 1v1 with someone.
3. Its payment is part of the cost. So if it gets countered or the creature is killed before damage resolves you are SOL.
Its best use would probably be in a Grixis deck where you can run infect spells, extra combat step methods, extra turns, stuff like Relearn, lifelink creatures, tutors and counterspells. But that is a lot of resources dedicated to one win condition.
Except you know, I'm pretty sure that all of that stuff you "dedicated" to Hatred works fine without it as a normal aggro deck.
A guy at my LGS runs Mirri the Cursed with this. I have been on the recieving end of a T3 kill a few times courtesy of that broken piece of crap Sol Ring. Not fun, I can tell ya. But Mirri DOES make for a great general to abuse this card with.
Did I used to go to your store? I run a creatureless Mirri the Cursed EDH with Hatred and Sol Ring. If not, yay for more people using my favorite legend. I don't think I've ever run into anyone else who runs her.
And yet I always seem to cut because it just..feels bad. It wins games out of nowhere and almost always gets groans.
It's technically still in my list, but I find myself swapping it out for Trepanation Blade against most opponents because at least that has a chance to more or less "whiff" whereas Hatred is an "I win" so long as I have more life.
But I have a problem not including a card for being "too good".
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
UBX - Milling Zombie Horde (now with spliced mana!)
One thing a lot ofp eople forget is that it's great in a voltron deck for 2 reasons.
1- It can pump for lessl ife to still grant lethal.
2- It's great for surprising people and as an alternate win-con. Swing your general, they block it but leave solemn unblocked, pay life and kill. Best for killing the last guy, but on a lifelinker you just need to be reasonably sure it'll hit.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
The downside, and the reason it gets cut from a lot of more tuned lists is that it is a very risky move, especially early game. If anyone has instant speed removal you are all of a sudden down half your life or more not to mention the card and the turn. The more counters and removal you come across the more likely you are to have hatred wiff or blow you out altogether.
UGUPrime Speaker Seamonster RampUGU
WUGDerevi Does NothingWUG
RRRFeldon's Lovely LadiesRRR
Pretty much what I was going to say. Pretty funny when used on vampire nighthawk and other lifelink things, but it is a super risky card. All it takes is one removal option and you basically played a suicide card. (Crop Rotation into Maze of Ith, gg).
I never thought of that and now I need this.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
And let's not forget all the green and red "size matters" cards as well. Hey look, Soul's Majesty, Soul's Might, Soul's Fire. Garruk, Primal Hunter is...a lot of work for a Necrologia, but it's a Necrologia that can heal itself with lifelink, among other things.
On phasing:
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
1. It depends on combat. Combat is a squishy way to win in many metas. It is easy to disrupt and prevent combat wins.
2. It only deals with one opponent at a time. If you don't run it with a lifelinker it can be risky unless its a late game play when you're 1v1 with someone.
3. Its payment is part of the cost. So if it gets countered or the creature is killed before damage resolves you are SOL.
Its best use would probably be in a Grixis deck where you can run infect spells, extra combat step methods, extra turns, stuff like Relearn, lifelink creatures, tutors and counterspells. But that is a lot of resources dedicated to one win condition.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
My favorite so far is Chandra's Ignition. Having a Whip of Erebos out is just winmore.
It takes a lot of mana, but between all the Crypt Ghasts and Caged Suns and Cabal Coffers out there it is still pretty easy to come by in RB. Doing it to an infect creature and tapping Boseiju, Who Shelters All is a neat way to kill the whole table out of nowhere, too. Everybody fears Blightsteel, but a Viral Drake? I mean, it's only one point right?
Nicol Bolas Dragon Dick
Hanna, Ship's Navigator Heart-attack Stax
Oona, Queen of the Fae Fairy Dance
Vhati Il-Dal Tree of Woe
Scion of the Ur-Dragon Durgensturm
Jolrael, Empress of Beasts Jamuraa's Army
Liliana, Heretical Healer Rise from your Graves and Proliferate
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Angelic Judgment [
@Elvish Sniper: Wow, nice combo with Ghoulcaller Gisa. Never thought of that.
Your mileage may vary, of course.
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But, I feel like the correct way to play it is when your down to 1v1 to close out the game quickly.
Except you know, I'm pretty sure that all of that stuff you "dedicated" to Hatred works fine without it as a normal aggro deck.
Seriph0 on cockatrice
EDH Decks
WBGKaradorWBG
Did I used to go to your store? I run a creatureless Mirri the Cursed EDH with Hatred and Sol Ring. If not, yay for more people using my favorite legend. I don't think I've ever run into anyone else who runs her.
,
- UG Ezuri, Claw of Progress The Artist Formerly Known as Kraj,
- R Heartless Hidetsugu Burn it all down .
- G Kamahl, Fist of Krosa/Jolrael, Empress of Beasts Nacatl War-Pride shenanigans.
- WBR Zurgo Helmsmasher Wrath.dec