My alternatives were Geth, Lord of the Vault and the different versions of Ob Nixilis - but I think Erebos would work better with any assortment of black cards I choose since it draws cards to keep my hand fueled and dodges black's boardwipes. Maybe my life loss from Erebo's draw effect drawing can also be somehow converted to hurt my opponents too? 'Opponent's can't gain life' is pretty irrelevant though.
What I would like to do: Take apart my Lazav, Dimir Mastermind EDH, stuff most of the black goodstuff in Erebos. EG: Damnation, Sadistic Sacrament, Urborg + Coffers, and friends.
Assume budget is probably not an issue because I have probably have most of the best black moneycards onhand already.
What I'm looking to do is build a mono-black deck that can, potentially, win big multiplayer games. It is to replace my old Lazav deck as the new 'hate/broken combos' deck for use when my playgroup wants to play a more tense game. Several problems to deal with, however: Enchantment and artifact removal? How do I accomplish this in mono-black, efficiently? Also, I've noticed many mono black decks have a very large number of sorceries. What can be done to make the deck more instant speed?
Chances are this build will have a low creature count and plenty of mana rocks, as it will run a suite of boardwipes, with Erebos at the helm mostly as a source of card draw. How can I best abuse Erebo's abilities? How can I best seek to control the game? I'm looking for any and all good ideas for things to run in the deck where I can find a good balance that can bring the pain but not get hated out while doing it.
To describe my meta: Very social and diplomatic, some semi-competitive decks, a little bit on the durdly side but its players are pretty experienced. It would be a good idea to have the deck equipped to handle decks that can fit under the banner of RUG goodstuff and other offshoots of decks running good cards from those colors. I have less concern about decks carrying cards in WB in my meta since those aren't nearly as prevalent as the above three. (Most of my decks fit Temur colors too, haha!) I need to build it with all of that in mind, and figure out some solidly achievable win conditions.
I have a pretty well-tuned erebos list that is artifact and enchantment heavy. I do a lot of devotion and dig for coffers or Nykthos + onyx talisman or Candelabra of Tawnos to get a ton of mana. I have Rings of Brighthearth in there to make Erebos hurt less and make all the fecthes able to snag 2 swamps. I have a lot of sac outlets and often find that a Chainer, Dementia Master and Kokusho or Gray Merchant can win the game in a pinch.
I've tried nearly all of the black generals - and I feel like Erebos has the most utility.
1) He's indestructible
2) He shuts down life gain. Sometimes this can be crucial.
3) Most importantly, You're never out of cards with Erebos. Played right, it can be really hard to run out of steam. Usually there's enough lifegain to gain back what life you lost.
Then I can use several avenues to try to win - Tainted Strike, Erebos + Cranial Plating, Exanguinate, Kokusho or Gray Merchant + a Phyrexian Altar + Chainer, or a few other avenues.
I include a demonic consultation and a consultation package of Snuff Out, Imp's Mischief and Faerie Macabre. People will tell you that Demonic Consultation isn't very strategic - but I've had such entertaining consultation flips in the past that people will keep me in the game to see if the black deck kills itself. My trick is that the first 6 that get exiled off the top get exiled face down until the effect resolves. I guess that's maybe a house rule - but going down to your last 5 or so and flipping them one at a time - not knowing if the named card is in the top 6 - really can build suspense and attract a crowd of spectators to a table. Crazy plays like that are also what separate us from all the other magic players, So I happily embrace it.
So I urge you to consider including a Consultation and a package for it - it's an amazing B instant that will get you any answer / game ending card in your deck - and it's also the best way you'll ever lose a game.
I run a Chainer mono-black deck, and one of the biggest problems can be if I run out of cards. In Erebos, this simply isn't a problem. Instead, you have a bit more of an issue finding your recursion, a win condition, and your own lifegain in order to fuel his costs.
The other advantage to Erebos is that it allows you to focus and run non-creature versions of spells. Mutilate and Damnation become excellent control cards, where Chainer would prefer creature versions of them, such as Kagemaro, First to Suffer (still good in erebos!).
You can still run the full creature recursion route, and aim to loop a Grey Merchant or Kokusho, the Evening Star, but you're also now open to a more traditional mono-black control with sweepers, removal and the win-condition of your choice.
Either path, I highly recommend Rings of Brighthearth in every mono black deck. Doubling fetches, Burnished Hart and Thawing Glaciers for ramp is extremely good, it'll work with your Commander, and it'll help double up some good walkers. I particularly like Liliana of the Dark Realms in mono black, as maintaining land drops is very important to remaining a notable presence in the game, and her -3 is quite useful as removal, or can be a surprise Commander kill (especially with Urborg and Filth, or the black Kamigawa fear land). Her Ult is simply insane mana advantage.
Well, I don't actually own any fetchlands at all. That may be one minor budget issue I didn't anticipate. Plenty of mana rocks to compensate is probably what I'll have to do.
Would mill possibly be workable in mono black? I rather would like to carry over some of the things like Mesmeric Orb, Mindcrank, and Ghoulcaller's Bell from the current Lazav deck to it, perhaps with Rise of the Dark Realms as one of its win conditions. What creatures can I get away with running while still planning to wipe the board occaisonally? Are there any ways to save creatures which I don't want to lose that black has access to?
Also, how would the creature recursion route work? I'm totally fine with killing the table with a repeated Kokusho or Gray Merchant, since this deck is to replace a previous broken combo deck. My Lazav deck had 7 separate infinite combo/instant win conditions, so I'd like to aim for 5 or 6 with this Erebos deck so it is a worthy replacement. I'm only taking that deck apart in the first place because it isn't quite as fun as I had hoped, functioned rather clunky even being stuffed with good cards.
I played with Erebos for a while when I was bored with the other black generals I had enjoyed and before I acquired a copy of Xiahou Dun. I liked him, but he was slow even by mono–black standards at impacting the board.
If you want to go the mill route, Undercity Informer with any sort of consistent token generation can be brutal. When I was playing Shirei, the Informer was one of my most reliable victory conditions. With Grave Pact and friends, you can combine your win–con with board control. I think if you want to win this way, you also should be looking at a Stax package.
Well, I don't actually own any fetchlands at all. That may be one minor budget issue I didn't anticipate. Plenty of mana rocks to compensate is probably what I'll have to do.
Good news my friend! A whole bunch have recently been reprinted! You too can now have a Polluted Delta for only about $13!
Would mill possibly be workable in mono black? I rather would like to carry over some of the things like Mesmeric Orb, Mindcrank, and Ghoulcaller's Bell from the current Lazav deck to it, perhaps with Rise of the Dark Realms as one of its win conditions. What creatures can I get away with running while still planning to wipe the board occaisonally? Are there any ways to save creatures which I don't want to lose that black has access to?
By itself, my thought is no. I have died to mill before in EDH, but it's really hard to pull off, and even harder to do it consistently. Then you get those silly eldrazi messing everything up.
As a means to an end? Absolutely. I use Dementia Altar in my Chainer deck to empty out juicy targets, though I usually hit myself with it. Geth, Lord of the Vault is a fantastic wincon on his own. You don't even need to do silly reanimation loops. Army reanimation is still absolutely viable. After all, your opponents built their decks to have synergy and win, so you can just take their stuff, and if they complain about your Prophet of Kruphix and reapeated reanimation of Prime Speaker Zegana, just tell them it's their fault for playing powerful cards.
Also, how would the creature recursion route work? I'm totally fine with killing the table with a repeated Kokusho or Gray Merchant, since this deck is to replace a previous broken combo deck. My Lazav deck had 7 separate infinite combo/instant win conditions, so I'd like to aim for 5 or 6 with this Erebos deck so it is a worthy replacement. I'm only taking that deck apart in the first place because it isn't quite as fun as I had hoped, functioned rather clunky even being stuffed with good cards.
My Chainer deck does the recursion loop, but uses Chainer, Dementia Master to do it. A secondary option is Xiahou Dun, the one-eyed, though his price has also risen now. (By copying his ability with Rings, you can bring him back too, but the most common use is looping him with Living Death, or Profane Command). Nezumi Graverobber can be a pain at times to flip, but is solid, and works as grave hate too. Nim Deathmantle is always an easy escape, and Corpse Dance is a useful spell variant. If you change your Commander, Balthor, the Defiled is absolutely devastating. Still good as 1 of 99, but the single use (2 with Rings) is more limiting.
In Chainer, I got a lot of mana, then bring out Grey Merchant of Asphodel, sac him, rez, repeat. Lose 3 life per activation, and gain 6 billion. Xiahou-Dun and Living death is a backup, where saccing XHD brings back death, death brings back XHD, etc. Sac everything between casts and let Blood Artist and friends do the work. As a Commander, Balthor can do the same, but at increasing costs each time... but really, how many times do you really need to loop it? Run the Phyrexian Altar and Ashnod's Altar and you'll really be rolling in the dough, especially if you have infinite creature/mana shenanigans.
Speaking of, any creature that comes in with 2+ minions and Ashnods is infinite creatures/mana with Nim Deathmantle. So is Su-Chi. So if infinite is fair game, there's a lot that can still be be done.
I am also going to have to recommend Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed if you can get your hands on one. What is unique about him is that he recurs your non-creatures for you, so he doesn't push you as much towards creature heavy as mono-black usually does. This lets you use the best of creature recursion including Chainer in you 99, and then convert that into non-creature recursion using your general when you need to re-use and answer or a combo piece. Most of the good recursion cards have been mentioned, Phyrexian Reclamation and Volrath's Stronghold are two others that are worth looking at. I you pack all your classic black draw spells and are playing out of your yard to a reasonable extent I have never had the problem of running out of gas in mono-black, even when not using Erebos as general.
As it hasn't been mentioned much yet, artifacts (+ a little politics, or just reanimating their Bane of Progress) are the way to go if you need to deal with dangerous artifacts/enchantments.
Spine of Ish Sah: Is pricy, but can be worth it when you have a sac/bounce outlet for it. Karn Liberated: Is pricy in more ways than one, but deals with anything. (not technically an artifact. see also, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre) Karn, Silver Golem: Can do some work to an extent, though usually sticks around R/U decks for other synergies. Unstable Obelisk: Is a great substitute to Spine, should your artifact outlets be limited. Oblivion Stone: Is already a staple card in most decks. Lux Cannon: Can be slow, but is a repeatable effect should you get it going. Argentum Armor: Requires 12 to get going, but is a game-ending threat. Nevinyrral's Disk: Another staple wrath. Powder Keg: Only hits artifacts and creatures, but is great for dealing with low cost nuisances/mana rocks. Ratchet Bomb: As powder-keg, but deals with enchantments/walkers too, though at the cost of a little reliability.
Setting yourself up with some artifact support will help you deal with some of B's weaknesses, and losing some points of devotion can be a boon in and of itself, as it can help Erebos dodge some of the common removal options that players would use to deal with an indestructible creature/Commander.
I include a demonic consultation and a consultation package of Snuff Out, Imp's Mischief and Faerie Macabre. People will tell you that Demonic Consultation isn't very strategic - but I've had such entertaining consultation flips in the past that people will keep me in the game to see if the black deck kills itself. My trick is that the first 6 that get exiled off the top get exiled face down until the effect resolves. I guess that's maybe a house rule - but going down to your last 5 or so and flipping them one at a time - not knowing if the named card is in the top 6 - really can build suspense and attract a crowd of spectators to a table. Crazy plays like that are also what separate us from all the other magic players, So I happily embrace it.
So I urge you to consider including a Consultation and a package for it - it's an amazing B instant that will get you any answer / game ending card in your deck - and it's also the best way you'll ever lose a game.
May I just say hats off to you, sir, your attitude about the spirit of Commander is great. Big plays are indeed awesome and cards should indeed be included for that reason. I'm always happy to find another player who likes to eitehr win or lose with style.
I love Erebos. Any commander who is hard to remove and brings his own card advantage saves you a lot of wasted cards and slow tempo plays - e.g. casting Phyrexian arena or underworld connections is a powerful play, but slow and kinda awkward. With Erebos you can skip a lot of that. Play more powerful individual cards.
The most intuitive way to win with him in my head is staxy. Powerful cards that control the board like Sheoldred, Contamination, Dictate/Grave pact, Pestilence, Tainted Aether, Bottomless Pit, Death Cloud, etc.
Make everyone sacrifice/discard all their stuff, then swing with Erebos or whatever dude you have out for the win. Thankfully, black has a lot of easy ways to generate ridiculous creature damage and evasion.
Course, everyone will hate your guts for plays like "grave pact, fleshbag marauder, attach fleshbag marauder to nim deathmantle, attach fleshbag marauder to nim deathmantle, attach fleshbag marauder to nim deathmantle." But they probably deserve it.
Probably going to skip the fetches. I just don't want to spend all that cash on an effect that is really only good if I just so happen to get ROB out to duplicate the land fetch.
I'll definitely take a look at the stax options, probably run anything good that doesn't lock people out of their mana. Devotion sounds like something good to abuse, the artifact/enchantment removal options available still seem pretty disheartening though. I know I'm in black but sheesh, they're all so inefficient! Even red gets Chaos Warp, but apparently black doesn't get anything like it. I'd rather do something else entirely with that mana. Perhaps what I need to do is contemplate what kinds of enchantments and artifacts my meta plays, consider their consequences, and figure out what I can do about those consequences instead. I can deal with them indirectly without removing them, perhaps. I just don't like running inefficient cards in my decks - there must be a different way to approach that problem that allows my deck to still be built strong and lean.
I also want to plan this out with a path where whatever i play doesn't set me back whatsoever - I'd like to play some of black's best creatures for value plays but I'm worried that will conflict with my boardwipe suite too much. Is reanimation reliable enough to counteract that problem? I'm not really sure. Additionally, are the creature sacrifice outlets really worth it even with the large risk of them being dead cards? I don't see my current vision of the deck producing any creatures (I already have a token deck) I'd actually want to sacrifice other than maybe Kokusho, the Evening Star and a couple others.
Thanks for all the suggestions though! I talked to a friend of mine about it, apparently he doesn't like Erebos because its draw utility is less efficient than Greed. But greed is more easily removed and can make you a target quicker.
Think I'll throw in some stuff like Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood for one combo, I'm recognizing black has one other major problem, worse than lacking efficient enchantment/artifact removal. Not being in blue, I don't have counterspells to protect my plays and permanents. And not being in white, I can't have things like Grand Abolisher to protect my turns.
Any ideas on how I can protect my plays against instant speed plays in general? Overhearing my friends it sounds like control will make a comeback in my meta, two of them mentioned running 12 and 14 counterspells respectively in their newly tweaked Nekusar and Oloro control decks which I haven't seen either of them play for some time now.
I actually halfway built an Erebos deck 2 years ago - hit a wall due to budget issues like not having Damnation and it's other pricey friends, and in retrospect the old deck I was trying to build had major synergy problems and strategically was designed in an far inferior manner to how I can plan out a deck now.
I've got a $25 Erebos deck together right now, and it's great.
My favorite thing to do with him is Pestilence effects. He stops your opponents from gaining life, so it's very easy to gain enough life with Exsang/Gary effects to put your opponents into the pain zone where you just pour as much mana into pestilence effects as fast as you can to drain everyone else out. He's also an indestructible body, so the pestilences never go away even when you've emptied your opponents' boards.
If I were to put real money into the deck, Cabal Coffers would obviously be the first place I'd start. Exquisite Blood would also be amazing to turn every Pestilent point into a further life swing in your favor. The Abyss is a pretty sweet option too, since it can't destroy your general.
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Since you're trading life for cards, while gaining all that life, opponents may as well lose some. And if you want to really screw your opponent over, well...
Something like Loxodon Warhammer can also be useful for those times when Erebos is a creature. And you gain 8 life every turn. Yay!
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I'll definitely take a look at the stax options, probably run anything good that doesn't lock people out of their mana. Devotion sounds like something good to abuse, the artifact/enchantment removal options available still seem pretty disheartening though. I know I'm in black but sheesh, they're all so inefficient! Even red gets Chaos Warp, but apparently black doesn't get anything like it. I'd rather do something else entirely with that mana. Perhaps what I need to do is contemplate what kinds of enchantments and artifacts my meta plays, consider their consequences, and figure out what I can do about those consequences instead. I can deal with them indirectly without removing them, perhaps. I just don't like running inefficient cards in my decks - there must be a different way to approach that problem that allows my deck to still be built strong and lean.
That line of thought is probably your best bet for dealing with any of B's insecurities if the artifact options aren't quick enough for your tastes/your group's level of play. Finding ways to ignore or work around difficult non-creature spells are probably viable in B, depending on what issues you're looking to counteract.
For example, removal spells (particularly exile/tuck effects, or Faith's Fetters) can be 'countered' via a combination of sacrifice outlets and reanimation spells (both of which you get in spades). Grim Return, Death Denied, and Unmake the Graves are reasonable instant-speed options for this strategy. Recursion also gives you the option to revive opposing creatures, which may give you access to that Reclamation Sage sitting in Karador's graveyard. On the issue of sacrifice outlets, having a few innocuous ones generally won't detract too much from a deck, and can have the benefit of taking away the extra card advantage that certain spells have (no one will use Control Magic on a player with a sac-outlet, if they can avoid it).
The impact of grave-hate effects like Rest in Peace can be limited by having alternative recursion methods (though this mostly applies if you are looking at recursion for the sake of ETB abuse), such as Safe Haven or Conjurer's Closet (or again, reviving another player's creatures, if they've still got a graveyard). Again, lands and artifacts are your friend here, so you may run into efficiency issues. Alternatively, using delve cards and delve-like effects can be another way to get use out of a graveyard should you fear it becoming a limited resource; especially if you are looking towards a creature light build, as B's recursion is very creature-centric.
Creatures can also be protected by equipment that grant shroud/hexproof/indestructible/protections, and for all cards, Vedalken Orrery gives you opportunities to play spells when your opponent's removal/counter magic may be offline. I'm sure that you can extend this line of reasoning to other situations as well, and if all else fails, you can always fall back on a bit of politics and bartering to fill in the remaining holes in your deck. A hand full of Terrors, played at the right moments, can be parlayed into a few Disenchant/Naturalizes, or a Remand or two from the right players.
My alternatives were Geth, Lord of the Vault and the different versions of Ob Nixilis - but I think Erebos would work better with any assortment of black cards I choose since it draws cards to keep my hand fueled and dodges black's boardwipes. Maybe my life loss from Erebo's draw effect drawing can also be somehow converted to hurt my opponents too? 'Opponent's can't gain life' is pretty irrelevant though.
What I would like to do: Take apart my Lazav, Dimir Mastermind EDH, stuff most of the black goodstuff in Erebos. EG: Damnation, Sadistic Sacrament, Urborg + Coffers, and friends.
Assume budget is probably not an issue because I have probably have most of the best black moneycards onhand already.
What I'm looking to do is build a mono-black deck that can, potentially, win big multiplayer games. It is to replace my old Lazav deck as the new 'hate/broken combos' deck for use when my playgroup wants to play a more tense game. Several problems to deal with, however: Enchantment and artifact removal? How do I accomplish this in mono-black, efficiently? Also, I've noticed many mono black decks have a very large number of sorceries. What can be done to make the deck more instant speed?
Chances are this build will have a low creature count and plenty of mana rocks, as it will run a suite of boardwipes, with Erebos at the helm mostly as a source of card draw. How can I best abuse Erebo's abilities? How can I best seek to control the game? I'm looking for any and all good ideas for things to run in the deck where I can find a good balance that can bring the pain but not get hated out while doing it.
To describe my meta: Very social and diplomatic, some semi-competitive decks, a little bit on the durdly side but its players are pretty experienced. It would be a good idea to have the deck equipped to handle decks that can fit under the banner of RUG goodstuff and other offshoots of decks running good cards from those colors. I have less concern about decks carrying cards in WB in my meta since those aren't nearly as prevalent as the above three. (Most of my decks fit Temur colors too, haha!) I need to build it with all of that in mind, and figure out some solidly achievable win conditions.
So, suggestions?
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
1) He's indestructible
2) He shuts down life gain. Sometimes this can be crucial.
3) Most importantly, You're never out of cards with Erebos. Played right, it can be really hard to run out of steam. Usually there's enough lifegain to gain back what life you lost.
It usually becomes a process to tutor/protect/recur your mana engines - then draw into solid lifegain to offset the loss. Exanguinate, Gray Merchant, Kokusho, Sangromancer, Diamond Valley, Miren, the Moaning Well, Extort from a Crypt Ghast, Whip of Erebos and Batterskull are usually enough lifegain to offset the life loss.
Then I can use several avenues to try to win - Tainted Strike, Erebos + Cranial Plating, Exanguinate, Kokusho or Gray Merchant + a Phyrexian Altar + Chainer, or a few other avenues.
I include a demonic consultation and a consultation package of Snuff Out, Imp's Mischief and Faerie Macabre. People will tell you that Demonic Consultation isn't very strategic - but I've had such entertaining consultation flips in the past that people will keep me in the game to see if the black deck kills itself. My trick is that the first 6 that get exiled off the top get exiled face down until the effect resolves. I guess that's maybe a house rule - but going down to your last 5 or so and flipping them one at a time - not knowing if the named card is in the top 6 - really can build suspense and attract a crowd of spectators to a table. Crazy plays like that are also what separate us from all the other magic players, So I happily embrace it.
So I urge you to consider including a Consultation and a package for it - it's an amazing B instant that will get you any answer / game ending card in your deck - and it's also the best way you'll ever lose a game.
The other advantage to Erebos is that it allows you to focus and run non-creature versions of spells. Mutilate and Damnation become excellent control cards, where Chainer would prefer creature versions of them, such as Kagemaro, First to Suffer (still good in erebos!).
You can still run the full creature recursion route, and aim to loop a Grey Merchant or Kokusho, the Evening Star, but you're also now open to a more traditional mono-black control with sweepers, removal and the win-condition of your choice.
Either path, I highly recommend Rings of Brighthearth in every mono black deck. Doubling fetches, Burnished Hart and Thawing Glaciers for ramp is extremely good, it'll work with your Commander, and it'll help double up some good walkers. I particularly like Liliana of the Dark Realms in mono black, as maintaining land drops is very important to remaining a notable presence in the game, and her -3 is quite useful as removal, or can be a surprise Commander kill (especially with Urborg and Filth, or the black Kamigawa fear land). Her Ult is simply insane mana advantage.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Would mill possibly be workable in mono black? I rather would like to carry over some of the things like Mesmeric Orb, Mindcrank, and Ghoulcaller's Bell from the current Lazav deck to it, perhaps with Rise of the Dark Realms as one of its win conditions. What creatures can I get away with running while still planning to wipe the board occaisonally? Are there any ways to save creatures which I don't want to lose that black has access to?
Also, how would the creature recursion route work? I'm totally fine with killing the table with a repeated Kokusho or Gray Merchant, since this deck is to replace a previous broken combo deck. My Lazav deck had 7 separate infinite combo/instant win conditions, so I'd like to aim for 5 or 6 with this Erebos deck so it is a worthy replacement. I'm only taking that deck apart in the first place because it isn't quite as fun as I had hoped, functioned rather clunky even being stuffed with good cards.
If you want to go the mill route, Undercity Informer with any sort of consistent token generation can be brutal. When I was playing Shirei, the Informer was one of my most reliable victory conditions. With Grave Pact and friends, you can combine your win–con with board control. I think if you want to win this way, you also should be looking at a Stax package.
Good news my friend! A whole bunch have recently been reprinted! You too can now have a Polluted Delta for only about $13!
Rings is still a solid card, and even more good news, Terramorphic Expanse, Evolving Wilds and Myriad Landscape are all dirt cheap, and still work! If you need more, the vaious Panoramas also work. Also, still copying Wayfarer's Bauble, Burnished Hart and Expedition Map (for coffer borg) also works. Joy is you!
By itself, my thought is no. I have died to mill before in EDH, but it's really hard to pull off, and even harder to do it consistently. Then you get those silly eldrazi messing everything up.
As a means to an end? Absolutely. I use Dementia Altar in my Chainer deck to empty out juicy targets, though I usually hit myself with it. Geth, Lord of the Vault is a fantastic wincon on his own. You don't even need to do silly reanimation loops. Army reanimation is still absolutely viable. After all, your opponents built their decks to have synergy and win, so you can just take their stuff, and if they complain about your Prophet of Kruphix and reapeated reanimation of Prime Speaker Zegana, just tell them it's their fault for playing powerful cards.
My Chainer deck does the recursion loop, but uses Chainer, Dementia Master to do it. A secondary option is Xiahou Dun, the one-eyed, though his price has also risen now. (By copying his ability with Rings, you can bring him back too, but the most common use is looping him with Living Death, or Profane Command). Nezumi Graverobber can be a pain at times to flip, but is solid, and works as grave hate too. Nim Deathmantle is always an easy escape, and Corpse Dance is a useful spell variant. If you change your Commander, Balthor, the Defiled is absolutely devastating. Still good as 1 of 99, but the single use (2 with Rings) is more limiting.
In Chainer, I got a lot of mana, then bring out Grey Merchant of Asphodel, sac him, rez, repeat. Lose 3 life per activation, and gain 6 billion. Xiahou-Dun and Living death is a backup, where saccing XHD brings back death, death brings back XHD, etc. Sac everything between casts and let Blood Artist and friends do the work. As a Commander, Balthor can do the same, but at increasing costs each time... but really, how many times do you really need to loop it? Run the Phyrexian Altar and Ashnod's Altar and you'll really be rolling in the dough, especially if you have infinite creature/mana shenanigans.
Speaking of, any creature that comes in with 2+ minions and Ashnods is infinite creatures/mana with Nim Deathmantle. So is Su-Chi. So if infinite is fair game, there's a lot that can still be be done.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
UGUPrime Speaker Seamonster RampUGU
WUGDerevi Does NothingWUG
RRRFeldon's Lovely LadiesRRR
Spine of Ish Sah: Is pricy, but can be worth it when you have a sac/bounce outlet for it.
Karn Liberated: Is pricy in more ways than one, but deals with anything. (not technically an artifact. see also, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre)
Karn, Silver Golem: Can do some work to an extent, though usually sticks around R/U decks for other synergies.
Unstable Obelisk: Is a great substitute to Spine, should your artifact outlets be limited.
Oblivion Stone: Is already a staple card in most decks.
Lux Cannon: Can be slow, but is a repeatable effect should you get it going.
Argentum Armor: Requires 12 to get going, but is a game-ending threat.
Nevinyrral's Disk: Another staple wrath.
Powder Keg: Only hits artifacts and creatures, but is great for dealing with low cost nuisances/mana rocks.
Ratchet Bomb: As powder-keg, but deals with enchantments/walkers too, though at the cost of a little reliability.
Setting yourself up with some artifact support will help you deal with some of B's weaknesses, and losing some points of devotion can be a boon in and of itself, as it can help Erebos dodge some of the common removal options that players would use to deal with an indestructible creature/Commander.
RRR - Bosh's School of Hard(cover) Knocks
May I just say hats off to you, sir, your attitude about the spirit of Commander is great. Big plays are indeed awesome and cards should indeed be included for that reason. I'm always happy to find another player who likes to eitehr win or lose with style.
The most intuitive way to win with him in my head is staxy. Powerful cards that control the board like Sheoldred, Contamination, Dictate/Grave pact, Pestilence, Tainted Aether, Bottomless Pit, Death Cloud, etc.
Make everyone sacrifice/discard all their stuff, then swing with Erebos or whatever dude you have out for the win. Thankfully, black has a lot of easy ways to generate ridiculous creature damage and evasion.
Course, everyone will hate your guts for plays like "grave pact, fleshbag marauder, attach fleshbag marauder to nim deathmantle, attach fleshbag marauder to nim deathmantle, attach fleshbag marauder to nim deathmantle." But they probably deserve it.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I'll definitely take a look at the stax options, probably run anything good that doesn't lock people out of their mana. Devotion sounds like something good to abuse, the artifact/enchantment removal options available still seem pretty disheartening though. I know I'm in black but sheesh, they're all so inefficient! Even red gets Chaos Warp, but apparently black doesn't get anything like it. I'd rather do something else entirely with that mana. Perhaps what I need to do is contemplate what kinds of enchantments and artifacts my meta plays, consider their consequences, and figure out what I can do about those consequences instead. I can deal with them indirectly without removing them, perhaps. I just don't like running inefficient cards in my decks - there must be a different way to approach that problem that allows my deck to still be built strong and lean.
I also want to plan this out with a path where whatever i play doesn't set me back whatsoever - I'd like to play some of black's best creatures for value plays but I'm worried that will conflict with my boardwipe suite too much. Is reanimation reliable enough to counteract that problem? I'm not really sure. Additionally, are the creature sacrifice outlets really worth it even with the large risk of them being dead cards? I don't see my current vision of the deck producing any creatures (I already have a token deck) I'd actually want to sacrifice other than maybe Kokusho, the Evening Star and a couple others.
Thanks for all the suggestions though! I talked to a friend of mine about it, apparently he doesn't like Erebos because its draw utility is less efficient than Greed. But greed is more easily removed and can make you a target quicker.
Think I'll throw in some stuff like Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood for one combo, I'm recognizing black has one other major problem, worse than lacking efficient enchantment/artifact removal. Not being in blue, I don't have counterspells to protect my plays and permanents. And not being in white, I can't have things like Grand Abolisher to protect my turns.
Any ideas on how I can protect my plays against instant speed plays in general? Overhearing my friends it sounds like control will make a comeback in my meta, two of them mentioned running 12 and 14 counterspells respectively in their newly tweaked Nekusar and Oloro control decks which I haven't seen either of them play for some time now.
I actually halfway built an Erebos deck 2 years ago - hit a wall due to budget issues like not having Damnation and it's other pricey friends, and in retrospect the old deck I was trying to build had major synergy problems and strategically was designed in an far inferior manner to how I can plan out a deck now.
My favorite thing to do with him is Pestilence effects. He stops your opponents from gaining life, so it's very easy to gain enough life with Exsang/Gary effects to put your opponents into the pain zone where you just pour as much mana into pestilence effects as fast as you can to drain everyone else out. He's also an indestructible body, so the pestilences never go away even when you've emptied your opponents' boards.
If I were to put real money into the deck, Cabal Coffers would obviously be the first place I'd start. Exquisite Blood would also be amazing to turn every Pestilent point into a further life swing in your favor. The Abyss is a pretty sweet option too, since it can't destroy your general.
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Something like Loxodon Warhammer can also be useful for those times when Erebos is a creature. And you gain 8 life every turn. Yay!
On phasing:
That line of thought is probably your best bet for dealing with any of B's insecurities if the artifact options aren't quick enough for your tastes/your group's level of play. Finding ways to ignore or work around difficult non-creature spells are probably viable in B, depending on what issues you're looking to counteract.
For example, removal spells (particularly exile/tuck effects, or Faith's Fetters) can be 'countered' via a combination of sacrifice outlets and reanimation spells (both of which you get in spades). Grim Return, Death Denied, and Unmake the Graves are reasonable instant-speed options for this strategy. Recursion also gives you the option to revive opposing creatures, which may give you access to that Reclamation Sage sitting in Karador's graveyard. On the issue of sacrifice outlets, having a few innocuous ones generally won't detract too much from a deck, and can have the benefit of taking away the extra card advantage that certain spells have (no one will use Control Magic on a player with a sac-outlet, if they can avoid it).
The impact of grave-hate effects like Rest in Peace can be limited by having alternative recursion methods (though this mostly applies if you are looking at recursion for the sake of ETB abuse), such as Safe Haven or Conjurer's Closet (or again, reviving another player's creatures, if they've still got a graveyard). Again, lands and artifacts are your friend here, so you may run into efficiency issues. Alternatively, using delve cards and delve-like effects can be another way to get use out of a graveyard should you fear it becoming a limited resource; especially if you are looking towards a creature light build, as B's recursion is very creature-centric.
Creatures can also be protected by equipment that grant shroud/hexproof/indestructible/protections, and for all cards, Vedalken Orrery gives you opportunities to play spells when your opponent's removal/counter magic may be offline. I'm sure that you can extend this line of reasoning to other situations as well, and if all else fails, you can always fall back on a bit of politics and bartering to fill in the remaining holes in your deck. A hand full of Terrors, played at the right moments, can be parlayed into a few Disenchant/Naturalizes, or a Remand or two from the right players.
RRR - Bosh's School of Hard(cover) Knocks