Aaron announced they have found a way to do a colorless basic land, and that a colorless Commander deck will be possible.
Someone at Aaron Forsythe's panel at PAX Australia has just posted this over in the rumor mill. It seems particularly pertinent to this part of the forum.
Thoughts?
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[EDH] It's built to be a casual format and to a specific vision, and if you don't like the vision, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to change to accommodate everyone. Big tent is not a goal.
Oh wow that would change a few things...
It would help alot, even if i could only run 1 of it.
What? A couple generals that aren't played that much get basics and can tutor for those with the Solemn Simulacrum? I can see how a few people will get wood from this but, what else?
Oh wow that would change a few things...
It would help alot, even if i could only run 1 of it.
What? A couple generals that aren't played that much get basics and can tutor for those with the Solemn Simulacrum? I can see how a few people will get wood from this but, what else?
Yeah, I sort of thought playing MonoBrown started with the acceptance that non-basic land hate sucks really bad... the same way Red says "Nope, Enchantments **** me over*."
Oh wow that would change a few things...
It would help alot, even if i could only run 1 of it.
What? A couple generals that aren't played that much get basics and can tutor for those with the Solemn Simulacrum? I can see how a few people will get wood from this but, what else?
Well I guess sweet now I'm not owned by back to basics I don't know I have never tried mono brown edh.
Yeah, I sort of thought playing MonoBrown started with the acceptance that non-basic land hate sucks really bad... the same way Red says "Nope, Enchantments **** me over*."
*Chaos Warp being the lone exception.
There are just certain players i cannot whip out my Karn deck against. Mayael players can dig through their decks for their Dragon that steals artifacts, Hellkite Tyrant, same against a Zirilian Player that can tutor up the dragon, wreck my board just like that. Those are just from the top of my head.
There's alot of stuff you have to deal with yeah, like all the jokes when people gets to basicland search and i don't etc. Still i love the deck.
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming. Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
There are just certain players i cannot whip out my Karn deck against. Mayael players can dig through their decks for their Dragon that steals artifacts, Hellkite Tyrant, same against a Zirilian Player that can tutor up the dragon, wreck my board just like that. Those are just from the top of my head.
There's alot of stuff you have to deal with yeah, like all the jokes when people gets to basicland search and i don't etc. Still i love the deck.
Sure. I've never thought to build a colorless deck just because it's missing so much of the flexibility that I need. Maybe this will lure me in.... Nah, but maybe.
I would like to see a colorless basic. It helps those who like EDH and want to play colorless but don;t have the money for the usual landbase. I am not dropping four hundred bucks for Mishra's workshop.
There's a certain finesse to implementing this that they're observing, which is indicated by the fact that they hand to have "found a way" first. That doesn't even just refer to what they print on the card; it's also logistics of distribution and legality concerns. They can't just print them exclusively in a commander deck, because then those commander decks will be the only source of a card you may want 30+ of. Then there's the question of what formats they'd be legal in, which they have some basis for with snow lands, but it's still iffy. Then there's the card itself: Do they give it a land type? Do they give it any abilities to compensate for having less utility? Will they need a symbol to watermark the text box like other basics? What would they name it, because city is problematic because of Ravican basics?
It's a lot more complex of an issue to add a new basic land than just making:
Factory
Basic Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
And ship it out arbitrarily.
Anyway, my thoughts on the actual idea:
Colorless basics are something I've always been pulling for; it makes colorless EDH decks more accessible and it outright makes pauper colorless EDH decks outright possible. (Here I come pauper Golem Artisan deck.) it makes Burnished Hart and Solemn Simulacrum do something in those decks. I hadn't even considered it shoring up the nonbasic hate vulnerability of the already handicapped colorless decks. I'm also a strong proponent of giving them their own basic land type, as such a move generates a healthy amount of design space without much lost in the process. (Some very minor accessibility loss, but that's unlikely to come up for a newer player until such a point that they'd already be familiar with Barry's Type.)
They can't print a new basic land type because it'll ruin some cards that care about basic land types.
So what about something like "Colourless Mountain" that has Mountain on the type line, taps for 1 and has some kind of condition or sacrifice effect to tap for several R.
It won't ruin any card. There's nothing out there it could ruin. The closest thing that it could come to ruining is Coalition Victory, and I don't think needing one more type of land for that changes much. It makes domain slightly better, which is good because outside limited and maybe Collective Restraint domain has always been underwhelming.
It won't ruin any card. There's nothing out there it could ruin. The closest thing that it could come to ruining is Coalition Victory, and I don't think needing one more type of land for that changes much. It makes domain slightly better, which is good because outside limited and maybe Collective Restraint domain has always been underwhelming.
It has been my understanding that this is precicely the reason it hasn't been printed yet. Domain gets better, and cards that care about all land types get worse.
It has been my understanding that this is precicely the reason it hasn't been printed yet. Domain gets better, and cards that care about all land types get worse.
I feel like that's a overreaction. There's nothing out there that gets proudly better or profoundly worse. At the time that Barry's land was a big discussion, there was also nothing to be gained beyond adding a sixth domain. I don't think the problem was every really that a sixth type was unhealthy for the game, but that it didn't provide any benefit to the game for it's logistical cost.
With EDH now positioned as a mainstream format, there's a real, noteworthy benefit to printing a sixth basic land with or without a type. Rejecting the opportunity to add a sixth type with it is surrendering great design space out of fear of a phantom.
It was in a wizards article on Barry's Land, I'm not just guessing or making things up
I wasn't implying you were. I've read the article in question a few time, as I'm a bit of a magic design buff, but I feel like it was a less than faithful paraphrase is all. Or, perhaps an overly-dramatic paraphrase.
So what about something like "Colourless Mountain" that has Mountain on the type line, taps for 1 and has some kind of condition or sacrifice effect to tap for several R. Like a cross between a snowland and shockland.
This can't be done under the rules of the game. Any card that has the type "Mountain" by definition taps for R.
Does this mean, if this is well received, We might see a sixth "color".
If this means Magenta or "Colorless" getting it's own thing, I'm not sure.
I don't think so. Imagine the future artifacts covered mana cost. I prefer a 6 than 6 new mana symbol as an example. Also, if they put a sixth color to represent colorless mana, it will kinda kill the concept IMO.
But in a different angle : i guarantee that, having a big 1 in the textbook of the card, it would be ugly. Doing colorless basics land will be hard flavor-wise ( what type of region/space would produce it that will work with non-artifact a la eldrazi) and aesthetic. I forgot also about how they will use them outside of edh, how they will make us to play them. Sorry for my english hehe
Make them like the snow lands - Basic (...) Land - (Type).
If you want to keep the 5 old land basic types only than do, say:
Rift Mountain
Basic Time-Stopped Land - Mountain
Tap, add 1 to your mana pool.
There are 2 problems with this too - namely that the whole cycle (all the types of basics) would function close to identically and also that you'd have to errata them to be unable to tap for their own color. But, something like this would lets wizards do a colorless block/set, which would be awesome!
Thoughts?
City
Basic Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
...if they wanted to. AFAIK the current rules don't disallow such a thing.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
There are several people, with deep pockets, playing Karn, Kozi and Ulamog decks right now without any colorless basic land support.
Cool, I suppose. It'll make the land base of those decks a lot more solid and less vulnerable to back to basics and its ilk.
It would help alot, even if i could only run 1 of it.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Well, just to get 1 land after someone Wave of Vitriol the board or From the Ashes is pretty good, better than staying at 0 lands. Oh, and Ghost Quarter works like a Strip Mine against me, same with Path to Exile
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Assuming it's a new type, Domain gets a slight boost but I'm not sure what domain cards see regular EDH play.
Modern: G/R Tron + RUG Scapeshift
Legacy: Reanimator
Standard: G/b Devotion
*Chaos Warp being the lone exception.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Well I guess sweet now I'm not owned by back to basics I don't know I have never tried mono brown edh.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
There are just certain players i cannot whip out my Karn deck against. Mayael players can dig through their decks for their Dragon that steals artifacts, Hellkite Tyrant, same against a Zirilian Player that can tutor up the dragon, wreck my board just like that. Those are just from the top of my head.
There's alot of stuff you have to deal with yeah, like all the jokes when people gets to basicland search and i don't etc. Still i love the deck.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Be a lemming hunter. Don't be a lemming.
Really, all you had to do was explain to him the popularity metric, not give him the lemming hunter manifesto...
Originally posted by MemoryLapse and DotMatrix
Uh yeah, that's what this thread is about
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Not Barry's Land specifically, then. Some other sort of colorless basic.
And note that Aaron said they *could* print one. That isn't a promise that they have plans to do so any time soon.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
From what little we've heard it might not be a new "type" per se.
GRWort, Control
UBDralnu, Reanimator
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Deck: .unsaved
Counts : 37 main
Lands:37
1 Blasted Landscape
1 Blinkmoth Well
1 Buried Ruin
1 Crystal Vein
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Desert
1 Dread Statuary
1 Encroaching Wastes
1 Esper Panorama
1 Gargoyle Castle
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Ghost Town
1 Glimmerpost
1 Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
1 Griffin Canyon
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Jund Panorama
1 Maze of Shadows
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Naya Panorama
1 Opal Palace
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Quicksand
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Rath's Edge
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Seraph Sanctuary
1 Stalking Stones
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terminal Moraine
1 Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1 Unstable Frontier
1 Urza's Factory
1 Zoetic Cavern
GWGaddock TeegGW
Angus Mackenzie
Posting from Smartphone, please forgive any mistakes
It's a lot more complex of an issue to add a new basic land than just making:
Factory
Basic Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
And ship it out arbitrarily.
Anyway, my thoughts on the actual idea:
Colorless basics are something I've always been pulling for; it makes colorless EDH decks more accessible and it outright makes pauper colorless EDH decks outright possible. (Here I come pauper Golem Artisan deck.) it makes Burnished Hart and Solemn Simulacrum do something in those decks. I hadn't even considered it shoring up the nonbasic hate vulnerability of the already handicapped colorless decks. I'm also a strong proponent of giving them their own basic land type, as such a move generates a healthy amount of design space without much lost in the process. (Some very minor accessibility loss, but that's unlikely to come up for a newer player until such a point that they'd already be familiar with Barry's Type.)
It won't ruin any card. There's nothing out there it could ruin. The closest thing that it could come to ruining is Coalition Victory, and I don't think needing one more type of land for that changes much. It makes domain slightly better, which is good because outside limited and maybe Collective Restraint domain has always been underwhelming.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
It has been my understanding that this is precicely the reason it hasn't been printed yet. Domain gets better, and cards that care about all land types get worse.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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I feel like that's a overreaction. There's nothing out there that gets proudly better or profoundly worse. At the time that Barry's land was a big discussion, there was also nothing to be gained beyond adding a sixth domain. I don't think the problem was every really that a sixth type was unhealthy for the game, but that it didn't provide any benefit to the game for it's logistical cost.
With EDH now positioned as a mainstream format, there's a real, noteworthy benefit to printing a sixth basic land with or without a type. Rejecting the opportunity to add a sixth type with it is surrendering great design space out of fear of a phantom.
I wasn't implying you were. I've read the article in question a few time, as I'm a bit of a magic design buff, but I feel like it was a less than faithful paraphrase is all. Or, perhaps an overly-dramatic paraphrase.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
GRWort, Control
UBDralnu, Reanimator
If this means Magenta or "Colorless" getting it's own thing, I'm not sure.
I don't think so. Imagine the future artifacts covered mana cost. I prefer a 6 than 6 new mana symbol as an example. Also, if they put a sixth color to represent colorless mana, it will kinda kill the concept IMO.
But in a different angle : i guarantee that, having a big 1 in the textbook of the card, it would be ugly. Doing colorless basics land will be hard flavor-wise ( what type of region/space would produce it that will work with non-artifact a la eldrazi) and aesthetic. I forgot also about how they will use them outside of edh, how they will make us to play them. Sorry for my english hehe
Make them like the snow lands - Basic (...) Land - (Type).
If you want to keep the 5 old land basic types only than do, say:
Rift Mountain
Basic Time-Stopped Land - Mountain
Tap, add 1 to your mana pool.
There are 2 problems with this too - namely that the whole cycle (all the types of basics) would function close to identically and also that you'd have to errata them to be unable to tap for their own color. But, something like this would lets wizards do a colorless block/set, which would be awesome!
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg: