I am having an extremely difficult time keeping up with my play group, we play in a 4 man pod for points for a ranked league. I am currently on top of the league but I am having trouble staying on top of the mountain. Everyone is focusing me because they know I am in first, and I can't get away with things that I normally could. I am beset with a strip or tech edge on turn 2-3, constant board wipes, board aggro, and counter spells. I need to play something that is resilient and fast enough to kill 3 people. The decks I usually have to play against are as followed
Karador (strip locks / recur cmc 2-5 utility creatures that pop artifacts/enchantments)
Rafiq (If he stays in play for longer than a turn, you get 1 shot / general voltron / counterspells)
Animar (Super dump your hand aggro, get hit for a large animar very early)
Drana (Super voltron, some staxx, get punched for 8 or 9 every turn)
I usually switch between a Staxx Xiahou Dun that usually lands a turn 2 braids or Smokestack, but when I don't land these, I tend to get focused before I can set anything up and lose, and Mayael the Anima, which hasn't been doing so well because I can't keep her in play, or keep lands in play long enough to use her ability. The few games that I do get to resolve a tooth'n'nail entwined, or use her ability, I usually win a turn or two later. I also have an Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck, but I have a very hard time winning with it because our play group uses combo caps.
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Commander League Season 4 Rules
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If a player would start a chain of events know as an "infinite combo" a player is subjected to a "Combo Cap", a combo is considered two cards that interact with each other to potentially produce a desired loop or chain of the same actions or effect. All of these caps are per round, so from the active player who is doing the combo until his next upkeep (extra turns do not count for this, every other player must have at least 1 turn)
You can not have more than 500 life. (Various)
You can not mill or exile more than 20 cards from someones library. (This Includes Gravestorm / Oona, etc / Helm Combo)
You can not draw more than 20 cards, or force someone to draw more than 20 cards. (Lab Maniac / Mind over Matter)
You can not take more than 3 turns (Including your first one). (General Blue Players)
You can not produce more than 20 tokens. (Ghave)
You can not produce more than 20 mana. (Any infinite mana combo)
If you would deal infinite damage, or infinite loss of life, instead you may kill the player of your choice, and reduce everyone else's life total to 1. (Tendrills / Kiki / Etc)
We also have a house ban list
------------------------------
Karn, Liberated
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Oloro, The Ageless Aesthetic
Demonic Consultation
Arcum Dagsson
Does anyone have any suggestions? I basically need a commander fast enough to be able to affect the board state on turn 3, resilient enough to not need the commander if it gets spot removed or tucked. And good enough to be able to 1v3.
Commanders I have tried
-------------------------
Xiahou Dun
Mayael The Anima
Azami Lady of Scrolls
Marath of the Wild
Damia
Sigarda
Omnath
Maelstrom Wanderer
Budget isn't a huge issue, my entire commander collection is probably worth like 10k, I own a Mana Crypt, and I have about 100$ to blow on a new idea.
For personal reasons, I do not want to play the following as commanders:
---------
Glissa
Animar
Karador
Rafiq
Edric
Derevi
Roon
Kozilek
Kaalia
Xiahou Dun
Mayael The Anima
Azami Lady of Scrolls
Marath of the Wild
Damia
Vorosh
Mimeoplasm
Sigarda
Omnath
Maelstrom Wanderer
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Although if someone presents me with a unique build I have not tried for the above, I would be willing to give it a shot!
So yeah! That's about it, any help or suggestions would be great, thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope you guys get back to me! Sorry about some of the grammatical errors, I wrote this kind of fast on my way to work.
There's no way that guy's Animar list isn't violating one of your house rules concerning infinite combos, either by dealing more than forty damage in a single turn, or by generating an infinite number of hasty Pestermites (and then dealing above the restricted limit of damage in one turn.) You should chastise him/her or something.
With your restrictions it seems like combo shenanigans shouldn't even be possible. In a meta that slow, hard control like Oloro would dominate since no one would be able to kill him before he reached totally pillow fort mode. But apparently these kinds of interactions are still happening so...
Oona, Queen of the Fae. Look two or three good infinite mana combos, play Helm + Leyline, Memnarch, and then a bunch of artifact mana and control to keep Rafiq from getting his alpha swing, and Animar from getting counters. Oona/Memnarch comes down the turn you win, hopefully under the protection of Cavern (naming wizard), and even if she dies you can just cast her again because you have infinite mana.
Gaddock Teeg. Stack your deck with Hushwing Gryff/Torpor Orb to screw over Karador and Animar, Peacekeeper/Ensnaring Bridge to screw over Rafiq, Stony Silence/Null Rod/Linvala to deal with Drana. Tutor for Sylvan Safekeeper/Mother of Runes/Sterling Grove/Privileged Position/Yavimaya Hollow to keep people from killing your stuff. Avoid ETB effects for the most part and try to find creatures with static or activated abilities (Qasali Pridemage and Sylvok Replica over Reclamation Sage for the most part) to minimize Torpor Orb's effect on you, but you can still play a couple. You'll win by alpha striking with Kamahl, Fist of Krosa on the board, graveyard recursion loops with Altar of Dementia, or graveyard recursion loops that destroy all enemy permanents.
You could try a Laboratory Maniac combo list. Exile your deck with something like Demonic Consultation or (with some practice) Doomsday, then just win. It shouldn't violate any of those rules.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
It is actually natural that you would have a hard time staying on top of the game in a continued rank based system. You can start up the arms race of just building more competitive decks but to some degree you are going to really take away from other's experience as well by doing that and possibly alienate yourself from the group using such tactics.
There really should be a close second place candidate and if you do drop to second place its not so bad as it shifts some focus away from you. It sounds like your deck is doing plenty good enough as is. You can step up and play a higher tier commander but I would sort of not advise playing the arms race plan as it will either force your meta to do the same or alienate yourself from them where they might not want to play with you anymore.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Hardcore Oona control or Oloro Ad Nauseam combo. Ad Nauseam "puts" cards into your hand it doesn't draw so technically it gets around your rules (though I bet they might change those quickly). If you go with Demonic Consultation and Laboratory Maniac (plus a way to draw) as your combo win it also gets around your play group rules. (Exile your deck with Consultation by naming a card you don't run. Then draw with Lab Man out)
I used to run a version that wasn't hardcore dedicated and could pull it off pretty consistently by T5 with counter protection. Decently regularly by T2-3 without a guarantee of counter protection for Ad Naus. As early as T1 with a near God hand (a couple different ways so not super unlikely). With Leyline of Anticipation and a God hand you can do it turn 0.
However, with that said...I would listen to what ISBPathfinder posted above me. Games become less and less fun as they become an arms race. You might consider his Jenara ETB list as something that will be continually competitive with the rest of your group but not overpowering.
Our combo Caps are as followed and only apply to infinite loops or interactions:
You can not draw or force anyone else to draw more than 20 cards per round.
You can not deal more than 1 persons entire life total worth of damage per round.
You can not have more than 500 life.
You can not generate more than a persons life total worth of tokens per round.
Found your problem.
This promotes the very thing you are having problems with since no one can come push through the crap and just finish the game. No. Instead, they have to pick the guy giving them the most trouble and try to take him out when getting stepped on by the other guys. Also, you're telling me that in your playgroup, I can't play a grinding sort of Black White extort decks that slowly everyone down to 10-15 life and then drop 10-15 strong Debt to the Debtless/Exsanguinate? Seems silly.
Anyway, here's something fun that you can do. Make a sac loop that is harmless on it's own like Cartel Aristocrat+Banisher Priest/Sun Titan (Angel of Glory's Rise might be better with reanimation because you can cast a single Animate Dead or something and start the chain with all the pieces in the graveyard). Do the harmless loop a trillion times and cast Bitter Ordeal. Congrats, you have just won the game and fit your groups limiting criteria. You can expand on that loop in many many ways, too in BW while also adding protection (Terra Eternal/Hushing Gryff which can be sacc'd to your loop of choosing) and plenty of exiling fun. I recommend Teysa, Orzhov Scion because it's the cheap combo piece(3 white creatures = Priest, Aristocrat, and Teysa, but you need the Angel under the priest. This also nets you a spirit from the aristocrat), though I prefer Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts for a non-combo out if I need it. Your meta might be a little hard on the 7cmc though. This can also be done with a very low mana curve for those competitive metas with the only higher ups being Sun Titan and Angel of Glory's Rise, both of which can be brought into play for one black mana. You can also dredge them or discard the two bigguns, too.
Yes I know that is the uber goldfish of perfect card combinations, but the combo can win out of nowhere. If Bitter Ordeal is pushing the boundaries too much, add in Death Cultist and kill them one at a time while using your general to lock their boards by exiling all their creatures without activating the Cultist. If you get wrathed, make sure the priest has the Angel under it and you're good. If you get Hallowed Burialed, then sac everything and look for a reanimate.
The combo is foolproof. Like all combos, it has a weakness, and that is graveyard hate. Not much to do there besides having backup plans.
Hardcore Oona control or Oloro Ad Nauseam combo. Ad Nauseam "puts" cards into your hand it doesn't draw so technically it gets around your rules (though I bet they might change those quickly). If you go with Demonic Consultation and Laboratory Maniac (plus a way to draw) as your combo win it also gets around your play group rules. (Exile your deck with Consultation by naming a card you don't run. Then draw with Lab Man out)
However, he can't kill more than 1 person with Ad Nauseam/Tendrils of Agony combo.....
Your rules don't prevent infinite turns or infinite mill the table, so I'd second the Oona suggestion and maybe suggest a hard control deck like Dominus Dreamcrusher that can create infinite turns or some form of Oloro pillowfort with instant wins like Test of Endurance and Laboratory Maniac.
It's worth noting that braids has just been banned entirely. I'm also thirding exiling every one's libraries. Get your league rules changed by example!
It seems like humility nerfs everyone's deck in your meta. It also sounds like they all depend on recursion effects hence rest in peace. It sounds like you appreciate stax, and cards like Hokori, dust drinker would do well in your hands.
I apologize for not keeping on top of this thread! I forgot to put all of the rules of my commander league and a lot of your suggestions were very helpful but I could not use most of them.
I will type out the full rules of my commander league. (I will type what combos this was designed for in parenthesis)
If a player would start a chain of events know as an "infinite combo" a player is subjected to a "Combo Cap", a combo is considered two cards that interact with each other to potentially produce a desired loop or chain of the same actions or effect. All of these caps are per round, so from the active player who is doing the combo until his next upkeep (extra turns do not count for this, every other player must have at least 1 turn)
You can not have more than 500 life. (Various)
You can not mill or exile more than 20 cards from someones library. (This Includes Gravestorm / Oona, etc / Helm Combo)
You can not draw more than 20 cards, or force someone to draw more than 20 cards. (Lab Maniac / Mind over Matter)
You can not take more than 3 turns (Including your first one). (General Blue Players)
You can not produce more than 20 tokens. (Ghave)
You can not produce more than 20 mana. (Any infinite mana combo)
If you would deal infinite damage, or infinite loss of life, instead you may kill the player of your choice, and reduce everyone else's life total to 1. (Tendrills / Kiki / Etc)
We also have a house ban list
------------------------------
Karn, Liberated
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Oloro, The Ageless Aesthetic
Demonic Consultation
Arcum Dagsson
Edit: I will update my origional post for everyone
This all sounds like really solid advice. I might have to give Teeg a try, I played Sigarda voltron for a while, and I found that I was killing one person, and then running out of gas and dying to everyone else, but I played Teeg in it, and was always glad to have it in play.
You can step up and play a higher tier commander but I would sort of not advise playing the arms race plan as it will either force your meta to do the same or alienate yourself from them where they might not want to play with you anymore.
I think I would like to play the arm's race. Our commander league places people in pods based on skill level, so its me, and the shop owner, and 2 other people who have clawed their way up usually. If they are good enough to be at the head table, they should have the drive and the motivation to strive to do better, and they usually do. I don't think I will be alienated, probably get focused more, but if I can handle everyone's aggro and still live, then it wont matter. Part of playing at the head table is education. If you've clawed your way up through everyone else's casual commander decks, then you get to learn how to play against real decks as well. I would like to think there is a certain point where combo caps keep the arms race from getting completely degenerate, and if it does, we can always add more caps.
It seems like humility nerfs everyone's deck in your meta. It also sounds like they all depend on recursion effects hence rest in peace. It sounds like you appreciate stax, and cards like Hokori, dust drinker would do well in your hands.
Play Worb effects. .
I really like these suggestions, I have been mulling a black/white staxx / control deck around in my head for a while, using Humility, Braids, Hokori, Elspeth, Skullclamp, Smokestack, stuff like that, and grinding the game out to hard cast a big exsanguinate or debt to the debtless off a late game coffers. I should play a worb b/w or esper deck maybe? or is green too good? I could play b/w/g or maybe go 5 color and just not play red? but I feel the land base for 5 color decks is too vulnerable to strip locks.
(quote) everyone else (/quote)
I apologize if I did not reply to your individual posts. They either pertained to some kind of infinite combo that I can not do, or bumped into one or another rule that prohibits me from using your advice. I appreciate your advice though, and there were a lot of good ideas in this thread.
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I have a really bad habit of editing my posts about 10 times after I post them.
Jace SHOULD be unbanned in modern. I hate all the people saying "JACE IS BROKEN OHMYGOD HE'LL TAKE OVER AND CAWBLADE WILL REIGN SUPREME AGAIN" when bloodbraid elf literally comes down after jace and kicks jace right in the crotch, takes jace's lunch money, and jace is left to bleed out on the sidewalk in agonizing pain.
It is literally the thread 1 above the first link you posted.
Just to summarize, they are removing the "banned as a commander" subsection so they reviewed each of those cards. Kokusho was completely unbanned. Braids, Rofellos and Erayo were full banned.
Oh freaking sweet! I am totally going to build big black mana Kokusho now!
Now that seems like a plan.
A bunch of sac outlets. A bunch of reanimation stuff (so you don't always have to cast out of the command zone). All the ramp/acceleration possible.
Heck yeah, Run like Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, Grim Tutor, Shred Memory to tutor up corpse dance.
Use Phyrexian Tower, High Market, Disciple of Griselbrand, Miren of the Moaning Well, Altar of Phyrexia, Altar of Dementia to sac the crap out of her.
Get there with dark ritual, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun, Crypt Ghast, Nirkhana Revenant, Cabal Coffers.
I could run stuff like, Entomb, Exhume, Reanimate, Corpse Connoisseur, Buried Alive, Dance of the Dead, Corpse Dance, Necromancy, Animate Dead
I really like Kokusho as a commander, because worst case scenario, I am going to hook a sword to her and hit someone for a lot, or they are going to spot remove her and give the advantage anyway.
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I have a really bad habit of editing my posts about 10 times after I post them.
trust me when i say azami will wreak everyone. i made a 60 dollar list and no one can beat it just include infinite hand size cards mind over matter laboratory maniac pycrosis crawler and emperial plate that will usually win 9/10 times with about 30-40 wizards that are two mana or have good abilities like terifi and veneser.
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[center][color=Blue]
U/R Delver
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Heck yeah, Run like Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, Grim Tutor, Shred Memory to tutor up corpse dance.
Use Phyrexian Tower, High Market, Disciple of Griselbrand, Miren of the Moaning Well, Altar of Phyrexia, Altar of Dementia to sac the crap out of her.
Get there with dark ritual, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun, Crypt Ghast, Nirkhana Revenant, Cabal Coffers.
I could run stuff like, Entomb, Exhume, Reanimate, Corpse Connoisseur, Buried Alive, Dance of the Dead, Corpse Dance, Necromancy, Animate Dead
I really like Kokusho as a commander, because worst case scenario, I am going to hook a sword to her and hit someone for a lot, or they are going to spot remove her and give the advantage anyway.
Yeah, that is pretty much the kind of stuff I was thinking.
Karador (strip locks / recur cmc 2-5 utility creatures that pop artifacts/enchantments)
Rafiq (If he stays in play for longer than a turn, you get 1 shot / general voltron / counterspells)
Animar (Super dump your hand aggro, get hit for a large animar very early)
Drana (Super voltron, some staxx, get punched for 8 or 9 every turn)
I usually switch between a Staxx Xiahou Dun that usually lands a turn 2 braids or Smokestack, but when I don't land these, I tend to get focused before I can set anything up and lose, and Mayael the Anima, which hasn't been doing so well because I can't keep her in play, or keep lands in play long enough to use her ability. The few games that I do get to resolve a tooth'n'nail entwined, or use her ability, I usually win a turn or two later. I also have an Azami, Lady of Scrolls deck, but I have a very hard time winning with it because our play group uses combo caps.
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Commander League Season 4 Rules
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
If a player would start a chain of events know as an "infinite combo" a player is subjected to a "Combo Cap", a combo is considered two cards that interact with each other to potentially produce a desired loop or chain of the same actions or effect. All of these caps are per round, so from the active player who is doing the combo until his next upkeep (extra turns do not count for this, every other player must have at least 1 turn)
You can not have more than 500 life. (Various)
You can not mill or exile more than 20 cards from someones library. (This Includes Gravestorm / Oona, etc / Helm Combo)
You can not draw more than 20 cards, or force someone to draw more than 20 cards. (Lab Maniac / Mind over Matter)
You can not take more than 3 turns (Including your first one). (General Blue Players)
You can not produce more than 20 tokens. (Ghave)
You can not produce more than 20 mana. (Any infinite mana combo)
If you would deal infinite damage, or infinite loss of life, instead you may kill the player of your choice, and reduce everyone else's life total to 1. (Tendrills / Kiki / Etc)
We also have a house ban list
------------------------------
Karn, Liberated
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Oloro, The Ageless Aesthetic
Demonic Consultation
Arcum Dagsson
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Does anyone have any suggestions? I basically need a commander fast enough to be able to affect the board state on turn 3, resilient enough to not need the commander if it gets spot removed or tucked. And good enough to be able to 1v3.
Commanders I have tried
-------------------------
Xiahou Dun
Mayael The Anima
Azami Lady of Scrolls
Marath of the Wild
Damia
Sigarda
Omnath
Maelstrom Wanderer
Budget isn't a huge issue, my entire commander collection is probably worth like 10k, I own a Mana Crypt, and I have about 100$ to blow on a new idea.
For personal reasons, I do not want to play the following as commanders:
---------
Glissa
Animar
Karador
Rafiq
Edric
Derevi
Roon
Kozilek
Kaalia
Xiahou Dun
Mayael The Anima
Azami Lady of Scrolls
Marath of the Wild
Damia
Vorosh
Mimeoplasm
Sigarda
Omnath
Maelstrom Wanderer
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Although if someone presents me with a unique build I have not tried for the above, I would be willing to give it a shot!
So yeah! That's about it, any help or suggestions would be great, thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope you guys get back to me! Sorry about some of the grammatical errors, I wrote this kind of fast on my way to work.
ah, too dependant on commander.
build your deck based on a combo then, ad nauseam and go to town
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
With your restrictions it seems like combo shenanigans shouldn't even be possible. In a meta that slow, hard control like Oloro would dominate since no one would be able to kill him before he reached totally pillow fort mode. But apparently these kinds of interactions are still happening so...
Oona, Queen of the Fae. Look two or three good infinite mana combos, play Helm + Leyline, Memnarch, and then a bunch of artifact mana and control to keep Rafiq from getting his alpha swing, and Animar from getting counters. Oona/Memnarch comes down the turn you win, hopefully under the protection of Cavern (naming wizard), and even if she dies you can just cast her again because you have infinite mana.
Gaddock Teeg. Stack your deck with Hushwing Gryff/Torpor Orb to screw over Karador and Animar, Peacekeeper/Ensnaring Bridge to screw over Rafiq, Stony Silence/Null Rod/Linvala to deal with Drana. Tutor for Sylvan Safekeeper/Mother of Runes/Sterling Grove/Privileged Position/Yavimaya Hollow to keep people from killing your stuff. Avoid ETB effects for the most part and try to find creatures with static or activated abilities (Qasali Pridemage and Sylvok Replica over Reclamation Sage for the most part) to minimize Torpor Orb's effect on you, but you can still play a couple. You'll win by alpha striking with Kamahl, Fist of Krosa on the board, graveyard recursion loops with Altar of Dementia, or graveyard recursion loops that destroy all enemy permanents.
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
There really should be a close second place candidate and if you do drop to second place its not so bad as it shifts some focus away from you. It sounds like your deck is doing plenty good enough as is. You can step up and play a higher tier commander but I would sort of not advise playing the arms race plan as it will either force your meta to do the same or alienate yourself from them where they might not want to play with you anymore.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
For the Oloro build basically just pack all the cheap CMC black tutors. Mysty tutor. Merchant Scroll. All the 0, 1, and 2 CMC artifact ramp. Dark Ritual. All the 1 CMC cantrips (Ponder, Brainstorm, Preordain, Serum Visions, Peek, Opt etc). Sensei's Divining Top. Up to around 20 counter spells (including stuff like Negate, Spell Pierce, Force Spike, Dispel and stuff with alternate costs that don't require mana).
Fill that out with any low mana value Esper cards. Serra Ascendant, Grand Abolisher and the like.
I used to run a version that wasn't hardcore dedicated and could pull it off pretty consistently by T5 with counter protection. Decently regularly by T2-3 without a guarantee of counter protection for Ad Naus. As early as T1 with a near God hand (a couple different ways so not super unlikely). With Leyline of Anticipation and a God hand you can do it turn 0.
However, with that said...I would listen to what ISBPathfinder posted above me. Games become less and less fun as they become an arms race. You might consider his Jenara ETB list as something that will be continually competitive with the rest of your group but not overpowering.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Found your problem.
This promotes the very thing you are having problems with since no one can come push through the crap and just finish the game. No. Instead, they have to pick the guy giving them the most trouble and try to take him out when getting stepped on by the other guys. Also, you're telling me that in your playgroup, I can't play a grinding sort of Black White extort decks that slowly everyone down to 10-15 life and then drop 10-15 strong Debt to the Debtless/Exsanguinate? Seems silly.
Anyway, here's something fun that you can do. Make a sac loop that is harmless on it's own like Cartel Aristocrat+Banisher Priest/Sun Titan (Angel of Glory's Rise might be better with reanimation because you can cast a single Animate Dead or something and start the chain with all the pieces in the graveyard). Do the harmless loop a trillion times and cast Bitter Ordeal. Congrats, you have just won the game and fit your groups limiting criteria. You can expand on that loop in many many ways, too in BW while also adding protection (Terra Eternal/Hushing Gryff which can be sacc'd to your loop of choosing) and plenty of exiling fun. I recommend Teysa, Orzhov Scion because it's the cheap combo piece(3 white creatures = Priest, Aristocrat, and Teysa, but you need the Angel under the priest. This also nets you a spirit from the aristocrat), though I prefer Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts for a non-combo out if I need it. Your meta might be a little hard on the 7cmc though. This can also be done with a very low mana curve for those competitive metas with the only higher ups being Sun Titan and Angel of Glory's Rise, both of which can be brought into play for one black mana. You can also dredge them or discard the two bigguns, too.
Example goldfish:
T1 Land, Ring, Signet, Crypt, Gryff
T2 Phyrexian Tower, Sac Gryff, Buried Alive (Angel, Aristocrat, Banisher), Reanimate Angel, loop, Ordeal
Gratz.
Yes I know that is the uber goldfish of perfect card combinations, but the combo can win out of nowhere. If Bitter Ordeal is pushing the boundaries too much, add in Death Cultist and kill them one at a time while using your general to lock their boards by exiling all their creatures without activating the Cultist. If you get wrathed, make sure the priest has the Angel under it and you're good. If you get Hallowed Burialed, then sac everything and look for a reanimate.
The combo is foolproof. Like all combos, it has a weakness, and that is graveyard hate. Not much to do there besides having backup plans.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
However, he can't kill more than 1 person with Ad Nauseam/Tendrils of Agony combo.....
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Edit: Oops, you meant based off his playgroup rules.
There are other ways to win off Ad Naus combo than Tendrils. Most are LabMan based (Doomsday, Consultation etc...)
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
My favorite is Angel's Grace + Ad Nauseam + Repay in Kind.
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
Play Worb effects. Play Derevi, empyrial tactician, but don't make that your whole deck. Make planes walkers your deck. Play Nissa, world waker, garruk wild speaker, Elspeth, Sun's champion, tezzeret the seeker, and smokestack. Play tutors, ramp, and counter spells = win. I always throw in the universal stax package when I can (smokestack, trading post, skull clamp,
I play in a commander league as well. In our meta you have to beat control. One awesome way to do it was with Braids. I miss her.
I will type out the full rules of my commander league. (I will type what combos this was designed for in parenthesis)
If a player would start a chain of events know as an "infinite combo" a player is subjected to a "Combo Cap", a combo is considered two cards that interact with each other to potentially produce a desired loop or chain of the same actions or effect. All of these caps are per round, so from the active player who is doing the combo until his next upkeep (extra turns do not count for this, every other player must have at least 1 turn)
You can not have more than 500 life. (Various)
You can not mill or exile more than 20 cards from someones library. (This Includes Gravestorm / Oona, etc / Helm Combo)
You can not draw more than 20 cards, or force someone to draw more than 20 cards. (Lab Maniac / Mind over Matter)
You can not take more than 3 turns (Including your first one). (General Blue Players)
You can not produce more than 20 tokens. (Ghave)
You can not produce more than 20 mana. (Any infinite mana combo)
If you would deal infinite damage, or infinite loss of life, instead you may kill the player of your choice, and reduce everyone else's life total to 1. (Tendrills / Kiki / Etc)
We also have a house ban list
------------------------------
Karn, Liberated
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Oloro, The Ageless Aesthetic
Demonic Consultation
Arcum Dagsson
Edit: I will update my origional post for everyone
This all sounds like really solid advice. I might have to give Teeg a try, I played Sigarda voltron for a while, and I found that I was killing one person, and then running out of gas and dying to everyone else, but I played Teeg in it, and was always glad to have it in play.
I think I would like to play the arm's race. Our commander league places people in pods based on skill level, so its me, and the shop owner, and 2 other people who have clawed their way up usually. If they are good enough to be at the head table, they should have the drive and the motivation to strive to do better, and they usually do. I don't think I will be alienated, probably get focused more, but if I can handle everyone's aggro and still live, then it wont matter. Part of playing at the head table is education. If you've clawed your way up through everyone else's casual commander decks, then you get to learn how to play against real decks as well. I would like to think there is a certain point where combo caps keep the arms race from getting completely degenerate, and if it does, we can always add more caps.
I don't see anywhere that Braids is banned completely.
I really like these suggestions, I have been mulling a black/white staxx / control deck around in my head for a while, using Humility, Braids, Hokori, Elspeth, Skullclamp, Smokestack, stuff like that, and grinding the game out to hard cast a big exsanguinate or debt to the debtless off a late game coffers. I should play a worb b/w or esper deck maybe? or is green too good? I could play b/w/g or maybe go 5 color and just not play red? but I feel the land base for 5 color decks is too vulnerable to strip locks.
(quote) everyone else (/quote)
I apologize if I did not reply to your individual posts. They either pertained to some kind of infinite combo that I can not do, or bumped into one or another rule that prohibits me from using your advice. I appreciate your advice though, and there were a lot of good ideas in this thread.
Ad naus combo with a sickening dreams isn't infinite but usually wins. Check my decklist here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/569912-oloro-sickening-dreams-adnaus-combo
PS - Change the general, obviously, if he's house-banned. And I'll be making some changes soon so stay posted.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17093
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/203612-commander-rulings-faq
I don't see anything that says she is completely banned.
Could you link me to where it says its banned officially?
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17210
It is literally the thread 1 above the first link you posted.
Just to summarize, they are removing the "banned as a commander" subsection so they reviewed each of those cards. Kokusho was completely unbanned. Braids, Rofellos and Erayo were full banned.
And Metal Worker was unbanned.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Now that seems like a plan.
A bunch of sac outlets. A bunch of reanimation stuff (so you don't always have to cast out of the command zone). All the ramp/acceleration possible.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Heck yeah, Run like Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, Grim Tutor, Shred Memory to tutor up corpse dance.
Use Phyrexian Tower, High Market, Disciple of Griselbrand, Miren of the Moaning Well, Altar of Phyrexia, Altar of Dementia to sac the crap out of her.
Get there with dark ritual, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun, Crypt Ghast, Nirkhana Revenant, Cabal Coffers.
I could run stuff like, Entomb, Exhume, Reanimate, Corpse Connoisseur, Buried Alive, Dance of the Dead, Corpse Dance, Necromancy, Animate Dead
I really like Kokusho as a commander, because worst case scenario, I am going to hook a sword to her and hit someone for a lot, or they are going to spot remove her and give the advantage anyway.
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Yeah, that is pretty much the kind of stuff I was thinking.
Consider Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar as well. And Doubling Cube
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB