Well, it may be true, but this "competitive" version I'm talking about won't be very fun. For decks worth playing (ie fun) your points are extremely good.
Personally I'd probably rather play a version with low creature count (instead of no creatures). Not bother with Staff. And play a ton of spells that could be fun as hell to cast for free. I'd like to see a lot of randomness in the deck instead of running tutors and Staff.
I will be running the dragon cycle. The red/white/blue ones.
White gives vigilance and makes her easier to attack into enemies with. Blue gives evasion and Red gives haste. (Dragon Wings/Dragon Scales and I don't rmbr the red ones name)
Perhaps, since this is a semi dragon set, maybe they will be reprinted. I always loved them!
With her having hexproof, does anyone think she might become one of the big hexproof generals like Sigarda who is next to useless except for her hexproof?
Like bearlyke said, control will be a problem. I can bet my opponents will have a counter spell "saved" for her by turn 5 or 6. Prossh at least still nets value and others might fly under the radar. I'd be tempted to only try casting her at 8 mana with counter backup.
With her having hexproof, does anyone think she might become one of the big hexproof generals like Sigarda who is next to useless except for her hexproof?
Sigarda isn't useless, with some working with she can make your entire board unkillable; can't be destroyed, can't be sacced.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I'm a bit bummed by her because, as bearkyle said, she's not likely to be a ton of fun as a well-tuned optimal deck and I can't think of her being good enough for meta outside of that. Such a shame because she hits all the notes I want in terms of her abilities
With her having hexproof, does anyone think she might become one of the big hexproof generals like Sigarda who is next to useless except for her hexproof?
I'd only consider her useless in the most high-wrath and low-edict metas. Sigarda is very good.
Well, Jeleva has a major head start in terms of theorycrafting, but I'm inclined to agree... 2 mana less is significant and carving out chunks of opponents' libraries has been surprisingly good. However I've also found that unless you have ways to bounce or sac/replay Jeleva she can run out of steam, whereas with Narset all you have to do is keep turning her sideways.
Sigarda's just a flying beater with hexproof. All I ever see her do is "get there" with general damage since it's hard to remover her. I have legitimately never once seen her anti-sac effect be useful. She's only played because of her hexproof making it easy to voltron her up and swing. If there were any other similarly costed flying hexproof generals in her colors with actually relevant abilities, she would almost never see play. Hope that explains what I meant in my earlier post. If it wasn't for her hexproof, she is next to useless. She is essentially only played because of her hexproof.
And Weebos, most of my meta is agressive creature based with only a minimal number of combo or voltron decks so the amount of sweepers is inordinately high compared to most other metas. I even run sweepers that aren't Hour of Reckoning in my token deck in case someone threatens too hard.
I'm familiar with a Jeleva who runs out of steam, but both decks are going to be packing equipment, and when Jeleva comes back for 2 more, she'll be 8 ADDITIONAL cards better every time, Narset won't run out of steam, but unless you can make the top of your library gas (and probably pillowfort stuff) for every attack...
Both commanders can enter the infinite for whatever win they want off of a topdeck tutor at least, I think it may boil down to people wanting black or white more and American not having a worthwhile commander until this block. Zedru is fine if you want a Zedru deck, but otherwise...
What I'm saying, is that the hexproof is the only big draw, my exact words were "who is next to useless except for her hexproof". I never said that she was not powerful, just useless except as a hexproof beater. She does nothing interesting, the anti-sac is rarely relevant and a 5/5 for 5 is fairly meh as far as bodies go in EDH. Yes, she is strong, but mostly for the hexproof and the general damage.
(And, fwitw in one of my metas we actually don't use general damage due to us being lazy sods that don't care to keep track of all that, so I never see her in that one. However, in my other groups she's just a boring hexproof beater with a mostly useless static ability who gets wrathed away all the time.)
EDIT: Additionally, I made this thread to brainstorm deck ideas and cards about Narset and made that post to introduce a comparison of her as a general to another popular general that shares an ability with her, not to start an argument over whether or not Sigarda is useful because of hexproof or not. So, can we please wheel this back to topic? I know I continued that discussion a bit and I probably shouldn't have, so I am sorry for that; but, can we return to the topic at hand?
With her ability, does that mean that if you play a permanent with it, it will stay on the battlefield? Do instants and sorceries go the graveyard after usage, or are they exiled.
On the fair side of EtI/Omniscience She likes things like Prognostic Sphinx, Guttersnipe, Vedalken Orrery, and Hypersonic Dragon. She may be interested in Thassa as a source of unblockability but being a creature kinda puts a hamper on that.
With her ability, does that mean that if you play a permanent with it, it will stay on the battlefield? Do instants and sorceries go the graveyard after usage, or are they exiled.
To my understanding, it is all played as if it were cast regularly. Permanents stay in play and Instants/Sorceries resolve or are countered then go to the graveyard.
With her ability, does that mean that if you play a permanent with it, it will stay on the battlefield? Do instants and sorceries go the graveyard after usage, or are they exiled.
Based on what I see on the card, the spells are cast from exile so they'll resolve normally (enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers stay in the battlefield. Instants and sorceries go to the graveyard)
Being able to tutor for things and put them on top of your library just before you swing with her seems good. Also, moving powerful things from your hand onto top of your library ALSO seems like a good idea. This way, if you use things like Mnemonic Wall to get powerful spells back to your hand, you can cast them for free by simply putting them back on top of the library.
The danger with her though is simply this: Early game? She's fine. Late game? Being able to last until combat is one thing. Being able to SURVIVE combat is another. She already starts as a 6-cost creature ... with 2 toughness. She's going to die easily, and then she's going to get very, very expensive to cast.
Being able to tutor for things and put them on top of your library just before you swing with her seems good. Also, moving powerful things from your hand onto top of your library ALSO seems like a good idea. This way, if you use things like Mnemonic Wall to get powerful spells back to your hand, you can cast them for free by simply putting them back on top of the library.
The danger with her though is simply this: Early game? She's fine. Late game? Being able to last until combat is one thing. Being able to SURVIVE combat is another. She already starts as a 6-cost creature ... with 2 toughness. She's going to die easily, and then she's going to get very, very expensive to cast.
Fun? Yes. Overpowered? Not at all.
What does Vampiric Tutor have to do with her as a general?
She has hexproof so the only thing you should be worried about are board wipes and blockers and she's in colours that can deal with both of those rather well with counterspells and making things unblockable and red has plenty of ways to give haste
Tiny aside, I just noticed how well blended her abilities are to her colors. Hexproof from blue/white, first strike from white, and psuedo card draw from red/blue. I think that it's pretty nifty
First things that came to mind for me were a superfriends deck (drops new Teferi, Jaces, Elspeths, etc. for free...Jeskai isn't the best color combo for walkers, but there's some fun stuff in there) and an artifacts deck (Crystal Ball, Darksteel Forge, Vedalken Orrery, Akroma's Memorial...honestly I'm new at this, I'm sure there are potent non-creature artifacts to be cheated into play, I just don't know them all). Surprised I haven't seen anyone bring up artifacts yet. Are there just not enough worth cheating in to build around?
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Well, it may be true, but this "competitive" version I'm talking about won't be very fun. For decks worth playing (ie fun) your points are extremely good.
Personally I'd probably rather play a version with low creature count (instead of no creatures). Not bother with Staff. And play a ton of spells that could be fun as hell to cast for free. I'd like to see a lot of randomness in the deck instead of running tutors and Staff.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Honestly, I just can't wait to put Worldslayer on Zurgo.
White gives vigilance and makes her easier to attack into enemies with. Blue gives evasion and Red gives haste. (Dragon Wings/Dragon Scales and I don't rmbr the red ones name)
Perhaps, since this is a semi dragon set, maybe they will be reprinted. I always loved them!
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Sigarda isn't useless, with some working with she can make your entire board unkillable; can't be destroyed, can't be sacced.
That would be just silly
I'm a bit bummed by her because, as bearkyle said, she's not likely to be a ton of fun as a well-tuned optimal deck and I can't think of her being good enough for meta outside of that. Such a shame because she hits all the notes I want in terms of her abilities
I'd only consider her useless in the most high-wrath and low-edict metas. Sigarda is very good.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
I have no idea how anyone could consider her useless unless they don't play with general damage
Well, Jeleva has a major head start in terms of theorycrafting, but I'm inclined to agree... 2 mana less is significant and carving out chunks of opponents' libraries has been surprisingly good. However I've also found that unless you have ways to bounce or sac/replay Jeleva she can run out of steam, whereas with Narset all you have to do is keep turning her sideways.
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
That said, Narset is pretty frail, I think I might go a little voltron for her and get some protection.
And Weebos, most of my meta is agressive creature based with only a minimal number of combo or voltron decks so the amount of sweepers is inordinately high compared to most other metas. I even run sweepers that aren't Hour of Reckoning in my token deck in case someone threatens too hard.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Requires no further mana investment (ie. you can be tapped out):
False Demise / Fool's Demise (don't forget these can also steal opponents' creatures)
Teferi's Veil (I love this card)
Angelic Renewal
Gift of Immortality
Indestructibility
Fanatical Devotion (requires other creatures)
Totem armors
Requires mana investment:
Flickerform
Vanishing
The Brute
Legion's Initiative
Playtesting | Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Narset, Enlightened Master | Ephara, God of the Polis
Established | Gahiji, Honored One | Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker | Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo | Rubinia Soulsinger
Retired | Medomai the Ageless | Diaochan, Artful Beauty
Both commanders can enter the infinite for whatever win they want off of a topdeck tutor at least, I think it may boil down to people wanting black or white more and American not having a worthwhile commander until this block. Zedru is fine if you want a Zedru deck, but otherwise...
(And, fwitw in one of my metas we actually don't use general damage due to us being lazy sods that don't care to keep track of all that, so I never see her in that one. However, in my other groups she's just a boring hexproof beater with a mostly useless static ability who gets wrathed away all the time.)
EDIT: Additionally, I made this thread to brainstorm deck ideas and cards about Narset and made that post to introduce a comparison of her as a general to another popular general that shares an ability with her, not to start an argument over whether or not Sigarda is useful because of hexproof or not. So, can we please wheel this back to topic? I know I continued that discussion a bit and I probably shouldn't have, so I am sorry for that; but, can we return to the topic at hand?
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
GWU Thrasios, Triton Hero//Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa GWU
Draft my Modern Pauper Cube
To my understanding, it is all played as if it were cast regularly. Permanents stay in play and Instants/Sorceries resolve or are countered then go to the graveyard.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Based on what I see on the card, the spells are cast from exile so they'll resolve normally (enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers stay in the battlefield. Instants and sorceries go to the graveyard)
GWU Thrasios, Triton Hero//Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa GWU
Draft my Modern Pauper Cube
Dream Cache
Hidden Retreat
Penance
Vampiric Tutor
Being able to tutor for things and put them on top of your library just before you swing with her seems good. Also, moving powerful things from your hand onto top of your library ALSO seems like a good idea. This way, if you use things like Mnemonic Wall to get powerful spells back to your hand, you can cast them for free by simply putting them back on top of the library.
The danger with her though is simply this: Early game? She's fine. Late game? Being able to last until combat is one thing. Being able to SURVIVE combat is another. She already starts as a 6-cost creature ... with 2 toughness. She's going to die easily, and then she's going to get very, very expensive to cast.
Fun? Yes. Overpowered? Not at all.
What does Vampiric Tutor have to do with her as a general?
She has hexproof so the only thing you should be worried about are board wipes and blockers and she's in colours that can deal with both of those rather well with counterspells and making things unblockable and red has plenty of ways to give haste
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk