Ever get into the process of building an EDH deck and either during or after completion you get the sense that it's just not good enough to win.
Well in my case that tends to happen all the time. I get a new idea for a fun way to go about making a deck, something artistic and flavorful. Kind of like my idea of a thief EDH deck, or Grixis women with Marchessa as commander. In short I like to design my decks to either look good (in terms of creature art) or to have some cool mechanic or story behind them. But every time I get through it I end up scrapping the deck feeling that it's not good enough. People I know play competitively, like in every game shop near me. Over all it gets old when I have to play cards that must win rather than play a deck that makes me feel good. I like the dark art or the neat little themes I make in a deck. I just wish there was a way to get my point across. I feel like it's only a matter of time before my creative sense is overshadowed by the desire to win. Anyone feel this way, and if so what did you do about it?
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I welcome you.....to the pure world I have forged.
Ever get into the process of building an EDH deck and either during or after completion you get the sense that it's just not good enough to win.
Well in my case that tends to happen all the time. I get a new idea for a fun way to go about making a deck, something artistic and flavorful. Kind of like my idea of a thief EDH deck, or Grixis women with Marchessa as commander. In short I like to design my decks to either look good (in terms of creature art) or to have some cool mechanic or story behind them. But every time I get through it I end up scrapping the deck feeling that it's not good enough. People I know play competitively, like in every game shop near me. Over all it gets old when I have to play cards that must win rather than play a deck that makes me feel good. I like the dark art or the neat little themes I make in a deck. I just wish there was a way to get my point across. I feel like it's only a matter of time before my creative sense is overshadowed by the desire to win. Anyone feel this way, and if so what did you do about it?
OMG! ME TOO! I build maybe 10 decks, and only one will ever even get tested. Another issue I have is when I think of a great deck idea that is super flavorful and awesome but extremely *****ty, I get discouraged knowing my meta is semi competitive. Certainly not casual enough for something like mino tribal or whatever I think of. Another issue I have is when I build straight from my collection, I get depressed that I dont have certain cards that I should. Nothing expensive, but like 10-15 cards that are like a dollar each and I just dont have them and the deck loses a lot of power. Then I gotta buy the cards and I get afraid that when I do, I will take the deck apart without even playing it once.
ARGH! Still, building decks is the best part!
I just bought Iona and Avacyn (both like 25 bucks) and I took apart the deck they were in after playing it like 3 times. Lol
I feel your pain, often I seen my theme decks torn apart because they just weren't "good" enough, but I haven't given up, currently working on a Decks of Ice and Fire project attempting to make 4 game of thrones themed EDH deck so far I've got 2(dragons, Zombies) and having issues with the rest due to the finding a theme that both fits the project and is "good".
Ask if anyone would be interested in starting a theme deck night or something similar where it's implied that flavorful cards are preferred to optimal cards. If there's interest in the idea, that might work.
I feel your pain, often I seen my theme decks torn apart because they just weren't "good" enough, but I haven't given up, currently working on a Decks of Ice and Fire project attempting to make 4 game of thrones themed EDH deck so far I've got 2(dragons, Zombies) and having issues with the rest due to the finding a theme that both fits the project and is "good".
B or WB Knights? You can even throw some lions in the deck so people know EXACTLY who you're talking about.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Same here. I have yet to make a decent monowhite deck yet despite trying several times.I really want something creative that doesn't win via weenie token swarms but my decks just suck when I platest them.
I feel your pain, often I seen my theme decks torn apart because they just weren't "good" enough, but I haven't given up, currently working on a Decks of Ice and Fire project attempting to make 4 game of thrones themed EDH deck so far I've got 2(dragons, Zombies) and having issues with the rest due to the finding a theme that both fits the project and is "good".
B or WB Knights? You can even throw some lions in the deck so people know EXACTLY who you're talking about.
Thats a decent idea, but the decks to be fairly balanced against each other, which is where the issue starts, the dragons and zombie decks are mostly competitive. Though I am thinking about "Light of the 7" deck that would use 7 of the gods(5 color Krona)...just need to tire it together in a way that makes for fun yet high level game play
The only deck I can think about was the five praetors of phyrexia. That's something that could be flavorful in a sense and decent in play. At least the good thing is that all of them are pretty good, so I can display my love of phyrexia and still do it right.
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I welcome you.....to the pure world I have forged.
I got an only oldborder Adun oakenshield deck, and im working on a Esper enchantress oldborder only Dakkon Blackblade.
Im also got a Darien Castle/City theme deck, and that one is even *****tier than the other 2 ^. I mean playing Sanctuary Cat Every city has some stray cats, Preacher for the preaching dude that tries to win over the people on his side, Scout's Warning, Angry Mob for obv the Angry mob that's not content with some of Dariens decisions. Common Causeetc. Farmstead is in the deck because darien can grant you land that makes your life better,
Thing is, the other guys i play with do not build pure theme decks like my darien deck, so most of my decks are more of .. better decks. When the other guys thinks "theme decks" they think tribal decks.
I mean the 3 decks i've got has quite the restrictions attached to them.
I think if you want to win and have a theme you are going to have to devote a certain amount of your deck to goodstuff/removal etc. Just to make it work... you can have a "light" theme.
A friend has Karlona, the false god, Theros Gods deck... that has the demigods their enchantments and all the god weapons etc... It can win games. But mostly voltroning up Karlona with the Runes of the deus and 1 shotting people. (then handing it to the next person to do the 1 shotting)
Larzav mystery themed deck also kinda lightly themed, since Larzav shapshifter tribal kinda accidentally happens.. but he plays a bunch of Morphs.. because that is mysterious.
So light themes backed by still powerful cards work fine in causal metas, You just have to be willing to compromise on your theme sometimes and pick the better card.
It happens to a lot of us; I tried to find deck choices that could sort of marry the two ideas (mono-green elves and Ezuri Little Guys comes to mind) and occasionally I'll play a pet card that isn't good, but is really only harmful when you consider virtual card advantage. I'll admit that those decks don't have the "mythic" quality to them, but neither are they limp when it comes to game play.
That being said, this isn't the best option for someone who doesn't see concessions to both sides as satisfying.
I think if you want to win and have a theme you are going to have to devote a certain amount of your deck to goodstuff/removal etc. Just to make it work... you can have a "light" theme.
A friend has Karlona, the false god, Theros Gods deck... that has the demigods their enchantments and all the god weapons etc... It can win games. But mostly voltroning up Karlona with the Runes of the deus and 1 shotting people. (then handing it to the next person to do the 1 shotting)
Larzav mystery themed deck also kinda lightly themed, since Larzav shapshifter tribal kinda accidentally happens.. but he plays a bunch of Morphs.. because that is mysterious.
So light themes backed by still powerful cards work fine in causal metas, You just have to be willing to compromise on your theme sometimes and pick the better card.
aw:/ I always go 100% tribal, i did put a god in my giants deck tho, The RW one, Iroas. Derevi birds was fun. But i see what you mean, since it's difficult to find opponents that are on the same page as you.
We got about 12 regulars, and the powerlevel is really all over the place.
Eh, I ended up crafting a political nightmare the other week and I'm still exploiting it but I know that feeling. I might have gone through maybe twenty iterations of my Ruhan planeswalker deck before I was satisfied with it even being able to stand.
On the plus side, though, I get to act all hammy and say things like "income tax return, pitch your hand and draw seven!" Or "American agents have dismantled your nuclear bomb. It will not resolve."
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Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
I typically find that I don't build decks because they are too powerful for my LGS or would create board states that my fellow players wouldn't enjoy. Since I'm actively trying to avoid creating an "arms race" I tone down a few of my builds. (EDH decks in development but sidelined: Glissa the Traitor land destruction, Mangara of Corondor control, 5 color eggs, Esper Doomsday/4 horsemen combo)
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I've got a fever and the only prescription is more Kobolds. 5-color Eggs
4 horsemen combo sounds really neat, care to elaborate? One other thing I have noticed lately is the crazy amount of mana rocks hitting the table. Ever since VMA went online, there have been a ton of dirt cheap mana rocks like mana vault and mana crypt floating around, much more so than before, most likely due to the price plummet on these cards. The issue I have is that I purposely try avoiding these rocks in some of my decks just to change things up, but you really have no chance playing your soldier tribal deck for instance and dropping 1 basic land a turn while your opponents have 6-7 mana by turn 2. It's to the point now where I need to start 'metagaming' online and adding artifact kill everywhere, which is really sad. I wish they would apply the French ban list to commander duel games on the official site rather than just some folks choosing it.
I never had this problem, as I build my decks to be fun and that's it. If I have fun, I don't need to win. And even though I ran into a similar problem like you did, it solved itself. I just kept playing my weird janky decks and people were having fun with them, too (to the point the guys actively wanted to play against me), that they realized these decks lead to much more variety, fun and awkward/epic moments. Now, the most competitive players found a weaker powerlevel of their decks to be much more enjoyable themselves and overall, a lot of fun and cool decks show up very often (ishi-ishi coin flip for example, it rules!).
This is a great example of the format working as intended.
My immediate play group all have one really good deck. In my case, Damia (in my sig), my brother plays Prime Speaker Zegana, my best friend plays Sydri, Galvanic Genius, etc. and that is the only deck we put our hard earned money in. We all come from a background of competitive standard and modern play, so naturally our favorite EDH decks mirror that competitiveness. And there's no bitterness for broken plays and lock outs, since everyone's deck can do stupid brutal plays.
Beyond that, we all have an increasing collection of fun decks (mind you, these are also designed to win, just not stupid brutal) that we love to build and play with one another and its low pressure and very casual. Right now, I'm working on a Spirit Tribal/Reanimator (Karador, Ghost Chieftain), an Insectoid Tribal (Maelstrom Wanderer), and Curses/Plagues (Garza Zol, Plague Queen).
In short, my opinion is to have one really really good deck (doesn't have to be combo, but it clearly helps) that you can bust out for your competitive play group, but then have your gimmick/funsies decks to switch up the atmosphere.
My friend in Hawaii has this same problem. All I can say is, try to find or develop a meta that isn't cutthroat. Encourage quirky decks, budget decks, themed decks, and generally anything that isn't tuned to win on Turn 5 or sooner.
I can't stand EDH games that play out like normal formats, personally. That's not whyI play EDH. I play it for fun interactions, and to see cards that aren't really good in other formats. Netdecking commander decks, to me, just goes against the whole idea of EDH.
For instance, right now my Ghave deck runs that white sorcery that produces 5 soldiers, and 10 when flash backed. It has some synergy with other cards in the deck (doubling season, cathar's crusade, hour of reckoning), but I know it's not a super strong card. It's fun though, so I keep it in. I also has some other in cards that fit theme and mechanics (Mycoloth and Corpsejack make up the Fungi Trio!)
You can make a fun themed deck without EVERY card matching the theme. If you're going to make every card fit, well you should probably play against other decks with similar restrictions.
If everyone in your meta refuses to tone it down, just make a themed GAA4 deck that locks down the table for everyone
Every time I try to make Voltron. I just can't seem to strike the right balance of card types. I've never been good at aggro in any format. I usually play combo or control. Control in EDH is easy as hell, but aggro via Voltron pulls me way out of the comfort zone.
It's a shame because I love equipment.
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
The way you make flavorful "bad card" decks win, is you find the most busted crap in the colors you can play to supplement it. As someone who successfully piloted a Tajic, Blade of the Legion banding deck, it could be done. Asides from lands you want at least a 40/60-50/50 split of bad/busted to keep up.
Anything ration less than 50% of good cards will just start leaving you further behind in games.
Every time I try to make Voltron. I just can't seem to strike the right balance of card types. I've never been good at aggro in any format. I usually play combo or control. Control in EDH is easy as hell, but aggro via Voltron pulls me way out of the comfort zone.
It's a shame because I love equipment
.
Voltron requires heavy tutoring for the right equipments to be good, and honestly, even though it has a very linear playstyle, its a pain to build right.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I tend to design many decks, but then i look at my bank account, what i need in the deck and wonder if it is even worth using. Like my current project, Ghave, Fungus tribal. I want it to be good but will it? It has to be budget friendly, and i can proxy some cards i own copies of. but then what about the crap i don;t have already? Is it worth investing if it won;t win?
In theory, I love the idea of people playing the jankiest theme decks available, but in practice, such decks are rarely going to do well, because some themes are a lot harder to utilize along with strong cards, and at the core, even people who care more about having fun than winning would usually prefer to do both. If you are one of the exceptions, and you want to make everyone laugh with your MC Hammer theme deck or your St. Louis Zoo theme deck, go for it. This is definitely the format for those sorts of things, over Modern or Standard or whatever. If nothing else, the multiplayer nature of the format assures you'll probably be in the game longer than if you pitted your Broadway theme deck against some Modern beast. You will just have to be happy that you stayed in theme and got to show off your project, because you probably won't win often.
I like building a deck that "I" like even if I know it isn't good enough for my meta. Then I play it and when it gets utterly destroyed, tweaking it then playing it again (rinse & repeat) until I find that balance. That being said, my meta is semi-competative (every deck is a 75%+ deck) so sometimes that doesn't work but it's ok; I can lose gracefully-ish.
Well in my case that tends to happen all the time. I get a new idea for a fun way to go about making a deck, something artistic and flavorful. Kind of like my idea of a thief EDH deck, or Grixis women with Marchessa as commander. In short I like to design my decks to either look good (in terms of creature art) or to have some cool mechanic or story behind them. But every time I get through it I end up scrapping the deck feeling that it's not good enough. People I know play competitively, like in every game shop near me. Over all it gets old when I have to play cards that must win rather than play a deck that makes me feel good. I like the dark art or the neat little themes I make in a deck. I just wish there was a way to get my point across. I feel like it's only a matter of time before my creative sense is overshadowed by the desire to win. Anyone feel this way, and if so what did you do about it?
OMG! ME TOO! I build maybe 10 decks, and only one will ever even get tested. Another issue I have is when I think of a great deck idea that is super flavorful and awesome but extremely *****ty, I get discouraged knowing my meta is semi competitive. Certainly not casual enough for something like mino tribal or whatever I think of. Another issue I have is when I build straight from my collection, I get depressed that I dont have certain cards that I should. Nothing expensive, but like 10-15 cards that are like a dollar each and I just dont have them and the deck loses a lot of power. Then I gotta buy the cards and I get afraid that when I do, I will take the deck apart without even playing it once.
ARGH! Still, building decks is the best part!
I just bought Iona and Avacyn (both like 25 bucks) and I took apart the deck they were in after playing it like 3 times. Lol
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
B or WB Knights? You can even throw some lions in the deck so people know EXACTLY who you're talking about.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Thats a decent idea, but the decks to be fairly balanced against each other, which is where the issue starts, the dragons and zombie decks are mostly competitive. Though I am thinking about "Light of the 7" deck that would use 7 of the gods(5 color Krona)...just need to tire it together in a way that makes for fun yet high level game play
Im also got a Darien Castle/City theme deck, and that one is even *****tier than the other 2 ^. I mean playing Sanctuary Cat Every city has some stray cats, Preacher for the preaching dude that tries to win over the people on his side, Scout's Warning, Angry Mob for obv the Angry mob that's not content with some of Dariens decisions. Common Causeetc.
Farmstead is in the deck because darien can grant you land that makes your life better,
Thing is, the other guys i play with do not build pure theme decks like my darien deck, so most of my decks are more of .. better decks. When the other guys thinks "theme decks" they think tribal decks.
I mean the 3 decks i've got has quite the restrictions attached to them.
We're all in the same boat i think
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
e.g I have Deveri bird tribal... but I play prophet of kruphix and cyclonic rift because I'd be dumb not to. Also Reveillark and karmic guide, because why not?
A friend has Karlona, the false god, Theros Gods deck... that has the demigods their enchantments and all the god weapons etc... It can win games. But mostly voltroning up Karlona with the Runes of the deus and 1 shotting people. (then handing it to the next person to do the 1 shotting)
Larzav mystery themed deck also kinda lightly themed, since Larzav shapshifter tribal kinda accidentally happens.. but he plays a bunch of Morphs.. because that is mysterious.
So light themes backed by still powerful cards work fine in causal metas, You just have to be willing to compromise on your theme sometimes and pick the better card.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
That being said, this isn't the best option for someone who doesn't see concessions to both sides as satisfying.
aw:/ I always go 100% tribal, i did put a god in my giants deck tho, The RW one, Iroas. Derevi birds was fun. But i see what you mean, since it's difficult to find opponents that are on the same page as you.
We got about 12 regulars, and the powerlevel is really all over the place.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
On the plus side, though, I get to act all hammy and say things like "income tax return, pitch your hand and draw seven!" Or "American agents have dismantled your nuclear bomb. It will not resolve."
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
5-color Eggs
This is a great example of the format working as intended.
Beyond that, we all have an increasing collection of fun decks (mind you, these are also designed to win, just not stupid brutal) that we love to build and play with one another and its low pressure and very casual. Right now, I'm working on a Spirit Tribal/Reanimator (Karador, Ghost Chieftain), an Insectoid Tribal (Maelstrom Wanderer), and Curses/Plagues (Garza Zol, Plague Queen).
In short, my opinion is to have one really really good deck (doesn't have to be combo, but it clearly helps) that you can bust out for your competitive play group, but then have your gimmick/funsies decks to switch up the atmosphere.
[Semi-Competitive] GWUB "NO" GWUB 89%
Thrasios and Tymna aggro-control voltron-combo
"No machinations, no puppet strings, no plots. Just pure, sweeping death."
—Tasigur, the Golden Fang
I can't stand EDH games that play out like normal formats, personally. That's not whyI play EDH. I play it for fun interactions, and to see cards that aren't really good in other formats. Netdecking commander decks, to me, just goes against the whole idea of EDH.
For instance, right now my Ghave deck runs that white sorcery that produces 5 soldiers, and 10 when flash backed. It has some synergy with other cards in the deck (doubling season, cathar's crusade, hour of reckoning), but I know it's not a super strong card. It's fun though, so I keep it in. I also has some other in cards that fit theme and mechanics (Mycoloth and Corpsejack make up the Fungi Trio!)
You can make a fun themed deck without EVERY card matching the theme. If you're going to make every card fit, well you should probably play against other decks with similar restrictions.
If everyone in your meta refuses to tone it down, just make a themed GAA4 deck that locks down the table for everyone
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
It's a shame because I love equipment.
For every Baton of Morale you need a Sun Titan...which gets back baton btw.
Anything ration less than 50% of good cards will just start leaving you further behind in games.
.
Voltron requires heavy tutoring for the right equipments to be good, and honestly, even though it has a very linear playstyle, its a pain to build right.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon, the Destroyer of Darksteel
BGW Teneb, the Harvester, my Pimped Out Reanimator
GUB The Mimeoplasm Ooze-Mill
GWU Rafiq the Exalted