A budget Edric is very cheap to put together but a fully tuned version needs Gaea's Cradle, Mana Drain, Force of Will, Tropical Island and fetches among other pricey cards. You can run the deck without these cards but the difference is notable (I've tested both budget and fully built Edric). If the playgroup is not actually full of top tier decks and just has strong budgetless decks even a budget Edric deck should cause huge problems for them but it's also a very easy deck to metagame against which is something to keep in mind. If it were me I'd probably just build Purphuros instead.
Do you really need the duals in Edric? Do they really make that much of a difference? With all the card draw color fixing shouldn't be an issue. The fetches are nice if you're running Future Sight, Scroll Rack etc...But I'm not sure you actually need Trop Island.
fixing is very valuable in edric because you NEED to play him turn 3 or earlier. As an edric player (who has not yet gotten a tropical island to add to the deck), I can't tell you how frustrating it is to keep a hand with two islands and then not draw a green source for three more turns.
Do you really need the duals in Edric? Do they really make that much of a difference? With all the card draw color fixing shouldn't be an issue. The fetches are nice if you're running Future Sight, Scroll Rack etc...But I'm not sure you actually need Trop Island.
It's absolutely essential to have both colors of mana in the early stages of the game and U/G is starved for ETB untapped dual lands (I even run Tarnished Citadel in my deck). They're not essential but not having a rock solid mana base will cause you to mulligan more often. My build of Edric actually needs duals/fetches a lot more than most decks.
fixing is very valuable in edric because you NEED to play him turn 3 or earlier. As an edric player (who has not yet gotten a tropical island to add to the deck), I can't tell you how frustrating it is to keep a hand with two islands and then not draw a green source for three more turns.
Hmmm...that's a good point. But by the nature of the deck I might be willing to mull down to 4 as long as the 4 were island, island, forest, Flying Men (or some other 1 drop evasion creature). I mean I'd like to have a signet or Fellwar Stone to drop t2 and a Swan Song to protect T3 Edric with but...I'd risk that 4 card hand. If you land him clean you're good. If you don't land him clean by t3 you're screwed in a competitive environment anyway.
It's absolutely essential to have both colors of mana in the early stages of the game and U/G is starved for ETB untapped dual lands (I even run Tarnished Citadel in my deck). They're not essential but not having a rock solid mana base will cause you to mulligan more often. My build of Edric actually needs duals/fetches a lot more than most decks.
True. Being able to drop Edric t3 with potential protection without mulling is important at a competitive table.
yeah, agreed, i think OP needs to provide more guidance on this. There are lots of generals that can be built competitively and do very well in almost any meta (krenko, edric, purphoros, kruphix, memnarch etc etc) but they are not top tier. Most EDH players would never even consider playing with or against a top-tier competitive deck like arcum or zur, so it's not really even on their radar.
When most people I've seen ask this question, they don't actually mean "hyper competitive" or "god tier" or what have you, and instead just want something that won't keel over immediately to Tier 1's, and even if they are being literal, that's usually the best you can hope for anyway. In Multiplayer there are plenty of perfectly good suggestions to answer that question, though maybe not so much for 1v1/Duel (there's Talrand, and then I just blank out). It would help to know more about the TC's situation.
The truly elite decks are the control decks that can occasionally go off early but are more powerful the longer the game goes.
This is the truest thing. Jin-Gitaxias and friends that are totally comfortable just sitting there making sure you don't do anything big until after they do.
Regarding duals in Edric...depends on your build. If you are primarily one color or the other, and use the other more as a splash, then it isn't too bad and you can get away with a budget manabase. But if you are more 50/50 it does get very tough on your mana, as you have a lot of things pulling you in different directions:
- Unlike a lot of EDH decks you really need your land to come into play untapped (gotta cast those elves/flyers in the first few turns), making a lot of the budget duals a bad fit.
- You need colored mana of both types untapped and available first/second turn.
- In some builds you need a LOT of blue mana (ideally 3+)on turns 4/5, as you need mana up for double blue counters.
I always hear "It's a Hermit Druid Deck" and "it's an ad nauseum deck" but can someone tell me what exactly the content of these decks are, and how they work?
Hermit Druid is 5 color that uses no basic lands. You aggressively tutor out Hermit Druid then activate him to dump your deck into the graveyard. The deck contains certain cards (I can't remember which off the top of my head) that when they are in the yard allow you to essentially play the other cards you need from the yard. Usually Azami and LabMan. Tap Azami to draw. LabMan triggers. Win.
Yep, it's essentially the EDH version of the Legacy "Oops all Spells" deck. There are some creatures that flip onto the battlefield when they go from the deck to the graveyard like Nacromeba. You sac three creatures to Dread Return's flashback cost to return Angel of Glory's Rise which returns Laboratory Maniac and Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Now you just have to draw or tap a wizard to win.
Edit: Apparently there is a different version: "The simplest version of the kill is: activate Hermit Druid. Win. Yes, it's actually that easy. There are no basic lands in this deck, so a single Hermit Druid activation mills your whole deck. Narcomoeba pops into play. Unearth Fatestitcher, make sure the coast is clear with Cabal Therapy (if you have an extra creature), and flashback Dread Return on Crypt Champion, which returns Saffi Eriksdotter. With the other Crypt Champion trigger on the stack, sacrifice Saffi targeting the Champion, and repeat that loop a billion times. Then use Crypt Champion to return Caller of the Claw. That gives you a billion bears, and thanks to Anger, they all have haste. Ta da! Dead opponent. If Hermit Druid isn't destroyed on sight, this happens relatively consistently by turn 3."
I always hear "It's a Hermit Druid Deck" and "it's an ad nauseum deck" but can someone tell me what exactly the content of these decks are, and how they work?
Hermit Druid is 5 color that uses no basic lands. You aggressively tutor out Hermit Druid then activate him to dump your deck into the graveyard. The deck contains certain cards (I can't remember which off the top of my head) that when they are in the yard allow you to essentially play the other cards you need from the yard. Usually Azami and LabMan. Tap Azami to draw. LabMan triggers. Win.
Yep, it's essentially the EDH version of the Legacy "Oops all Spells" deck. There are some creatures that flip onto the battlefield when they go from the deck to the graveyard like Nacromeba. You sac three creatures to Dread Return's flashback cost to return Angel of Glory's Rise which returns Laboratory Maniac and Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Now you just have to draw or tap a wizard to win.
Edit: Apparently there is a different version: "The simplest version of the kill is: activate Hermit Druid. Win. Yes, it's actually that easy. There are no basic lands in this deck, so a single Hermit Druid activation mills your whole deck. Narcomoeba pops into play. Unearth Fatestitcher, make sure the coast is clear with Cabal Therapy (if you have an extra creature), and flashback Dread Return on Crypt Champion, which returns Saffi Eriksdotter. With the other Crypt Champion trigger on the stack, sacrifice Saffi targeting the Champion, and repeat that loop a billion times. Then use Crypt Champion to return Caller of the Claw. That gives you a billion bears, and thanks to Anger, they all have haste. Ta da! Dead opponent. If Hermit Druid isn't destroyed on sight, this happens relatively consistently by turn 3."
The "best" way to win with Hermit Druid (which admittedly uses more cards, but is much harder to stop) is: Sacrifice Narcomoeba, Fatestitcher, and Hermit Druid to Dread Return, targeting Necrotic Ooze. Ooze gains the abilities of Morselhoarder, Devoted Druid, and Scholar of Athreos. The Ooze will have Haste thanks to Anger in the graveyard, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon or Thornling. The abilities of Morselhoarder and Devoted Druid create infinite mana, using only mana abilities, so it cannot be responded too. Then, without passing priority, you activate Scholar of Athreos's ability a billionty times. It does not target, gains you infinite life, and can not be stopped by anything. The only opportunity anyone has to stop the combo is countering Dread Return. This is not stopped by Stifle, Mindbreak Trap, or even instant speed graveyard hate (if they use it after dread return resolves). Truly, it is the most punishing kill.
The "best" way to win with Hermit Druid (which admittedly uses more cards, but is much harder to stop) is: Sacrifice Narcomoeba, Fatestitcher, and Hermit Druid to Dread Return, targeting Necrotic Ooze. Ooze gains the abilities of Morselhoarder, Devoted Druid, and Scholar of Athreos. The Ooze will have Haste thanks to Anger in the graveyard, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon or Thornling. The abilities of Morselhoarder and Devoted Druid create infinite mana, using only mana abilities, so it cannot be responded too. Then, without passing priority, you activate Scholar of Athreos's ability a billionty times. It does not target, gains you infinite life, and can not be stopped by anything. The only opportunity anyone has to stop the combo is countering Dread Return. This is not stopped by Stifle, Mindbreak Trap, or even instant speed graveyard hate (if they use it after dread return resolves). Truly, it is the most punishing kill.
Pretty sure you can respond to devoted druid's untap ability so there are more ways to interact with it than you described but its still a pretty cool combo.
Edit: Looks like I'm wrong, Thought you might be able to stop further use of the ability with split second but that seems to not be the case since you're just using the cost.
BUG infect can be cheap and efficient, if you meta doesn't screw with the poison requirement. Mine had all the 3 cmc or less infect creatures in it, with every cheap pump spell (Invigorate, Titanic Growth, etc) I could find. My $50 deck took out a guy with a $2k mana base with a Glistener elf on turn 2. Also packed a fair amount of theft to ensure the pathways remained clear for attack.
Do you really need the duals in Edric? Do they really make that much of a difference? With all the card draw color fixing shouldn't be an issue. The fetches are nice if you're running Future Sight, Scroll Rack etc...But I'm not sure you actually need Trop Island.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
I second this one. I built it and it's great 1v1.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Hmmm...that's a good point. But by the nature of the deck I might be willing to mull down to 4 as long as the 4 were island, island, forest, Flying Men (or some other 1 drop evasion creature). I mean I'd like to have a signet or Fellwar Stone to drop t2 and a Swan Song to protect T3 Edric with but...I'd risk that 4 card hand. If you land him clean you're good. If you don't land him clean by t3 you're screwed in a competitive environment anyway.
True. Being able to drop Edric t3 with potential protection without mulling is important at a competitive table.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
yeah, agreed, i think OP needs to provide more guidance on this. There are lots of generals that can be built competitively and do very well in almost any meta (krenko, edric, purphoros, kruphix, memnarch etc etc) but they are not top tier. Most EDH players would never even consider playing with or against a top-tier competitive deck like arcum or zur, so it's not really even on their radar.
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
This is the truest thing. Jin-Gitaxias and friends that are totally comfortable just sitting there making sure you don't do anything big until after they do.
- Unlike a lot of EDH decks you really need your land to come into play untapped (gotta cast those elves/flyers in the first few turns), making a lot of the budget duals a bad fit.
- You need colored mana of both types untapped and available first/second turn.
- In some builds you need a LOT of blue mana (ideally 3+)on turns 4/5, as you need mana up for double blue counters.
The "best" way to win with Hermit Druid (which admittedly uses more cards, but is much harder to stop) is: Sacrifice Narcomoeba, Fatestitcher, and Hermit Druid to Dread Return, targeting Necrotic Ooze. Ooze gains the abilities of Morselhoarder, Devoted Druid, and Scholar of Athreos. The Ooze will have Haste thanks to Anger in the graveyard, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon or Thornling. The abilities of Morselhoarder and Devoted Druid create infinite mana, using only mana abilities, so it cannot be responded too. Then, without passing priority, you activate Scholar of Athreos's ability a billionty times. It does not target, gains you infinite life, and can not be stopped by anything. The only opportunity anyone has to stop the combo is countering Dread Return. This is not stopped by Stifle, Mindbreak Trap, or even instant speed graveyard hate (if they use it after dread return resolves). Truly, it is the most punishing kill.
Pretty sure you can respond to devoted druid's untap ability so there are more ways to interact with it than you described but its still a pretty cool combo.
Edit: Looks like I'm wrong, Thought you might be able to stop further use of the ability with split second but that seems to not be the case since you're just using the cost.