Check out the M15 spoiler and search for this dude. BB4, 4/4 legendary demon, he may have flying IDK, but when an opponent searches their library, they lose 10 life and sacrifice a creature. He has some other ability and I don't even remember it.
I got super excited at first because im a die hard ob nixilis fan but the more I thought about it, a lot of the time tutors and fetches will go off before you get him on the board. Then on top of that its such a removal heavy format, that it'll require someone to take care of him before they go searching their library. And I love his second ability its pretty awesome plus flying and trample. I don't want to get over excited for this guy because he is fighting for an extremely strong spot in my deck (6cmc creature) but I'll be giving him a go for sure. I also don't wanna run into the problem where I draw him and Ob Bob the fallen.
It's mediocre and overhyped. It will follow in the footsteps of cards like Homeward Path and Bane of Progress where the MTGS EDH community says this card is insane, it'll see play for about a month, and then be forgotten.
While his ability is flashy, it allows your opponents to play around it and as such it will never do anything. If you want an effect that punishes people for tutoring than use Stranglehold or Mindlock Orb. If you want a finisher for a Grave Pact centric deck use Massacre Wurm or Vicious Shadows.
Check out the M15 spoiler and search for this dude. BB4, 4/4 legendary demon, he may have flying IDK, but when an opponent searches their library, they lose 10 life and sacrifice a creature. He has some other ability and I don't even remember it.
This guy is ill! What do y'all think?
Really? You can link the card. You even put the full name in the title.
I also don't wanna run into the problem where I draw him and Ob Bob the fallen.
Doesn't matter, unless you have some objection for flavor reasons. Legendary creatures aren't like planeswalkers. You can have as many different versions of a creature down as you want, providewd none of them share the same name. See Akroma, Crovax, Mirri, and probably a couple I'm forgetting.
Imagine if you reanimated this guy turn two. Versus a green ramp deck
Then they won't ramp. It's a strong play, but no one is actually going to play into the punisher effect unless they really needed to search for something.
It's mediocre and overhyped. It will follow in the footsteps of cards like Homeward Path and Bane of Progress where the MTGS EDH community says this card is insane, it'll see play for about a month, and then be forgotten.
While his ability is flashy, it allows your opponents to play around it and as such it will never do anything. If you want an effect that punishes people for tutoring than use Stranglehold or Mindlock Orb. If you want a finisher for a Grave Pact centric deck use Massacre Wurm or Vicious Shadows.
He's not good enough
I think he's a little better than that, though. It's a big enough hit that you're not going to see a whole lot of people search with him on the board. It's an effect that black hasn't really had access to before, the effect is asymmetrical, and black is the color most suited to dealing with the (sometimes) drawback of being on a creature. He's also a pretty respectable threat in any deck that's planning on sacrificing creatures. He's not going to drastically shift the metagame, but he's still a solid card.
The biggest issue I see with him is that he's competing with a lot of other very solid cards at 6 CMC, and I'm not sure how often I'm willing to go with him over other options.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
It's mediocre and overhyped. It will follow in the footsteps of cards like Homeward Path and Bane of Progress where the MTGS EDH community says this card is insane, it'll see play for about a month, and then be forgotten.
While his ability is flashy, it allows your opponents to play around it and as such it will never do anything. If you want an effect that punishes people for tutoring than use Stranglehold or Mindlock Orb. If you want a finisher for a Grave Pact centric deck use Massacre Wurm or Vicious Shadows.
He's not good enough
You're making the fatal assumption that removal is on hand, which in a 100-card singleton format isn't always the case. If he sticks around, every tutor you draw becomes a painful card.
Put it this way:
Creature removal I see a lot of
Swords to Plowshares
Hero's Downfall
Path to Exile
Council's Judgment
Plus a few that depend on multi colors (Dreadbore, Mortify, Vindicate)
Tutors I see a lot of
Demonic, Diabolic, Beseech the Queen, Vampiric, Increasing Ambition, Fetches, Evolving Wilds, Acadamy Rector, Idyllic, Enlightened, Mystical, Terramorphic Expanse.
I would guess the average EDH deck runs 4-5 pieces of spot creature removal and 8-20 tutors (depending on colors).
Dies to Removal is not an argument.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I don't think there's enough power level there. Blanking some of your opponent's cards until he dies isn't that great, for a 6 drop with a mediocre body. Maybe the fact that he gets huge puts him over the top, but costing six (So you can't get him down before the green players have already ramped as much as they need) is pretty brutal for a card like that.
Also: 10 life isn't that much in Commander. This doesn't even stop someone tutoring for their game-winning combo, and in fact, if someone is really reliant on tutoring, they can usually tutor for an answer to this guy and eat the damage.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
It's mediocre and overhyped. It will follow in the footsteps of cards like Homeward Path and Bane of Progress where the MTGS EDH community says this card is insane, it'll see play for about a month, and then be forgotten.
While his ability is flashy, it allows your opponents to play around it and as such it will never do anything. If you want an effect that punishes people for tutoring than use Stranglehold or Mindlock Orb. If you want a finisher for a Grave Pact centric deck use Massacre Wurm or Vicious Shadows.
He's not good enough
You're making the fatal assumption that removal is on hand, which in a 100-card singleton format isn't always the case. If he sticks around, every tutor you draw becomes a painful card.
Put it this way:
Creature removal I see a lot of
Swords to Plowshares
Hero's Downfall
Path to Exile
Council's Judgment
Plus a few that depend on multi colors (Dreadbore, Mortify, Vindicate)
Tutors I see a lot of
Demonic, Diabolic, Beseech the Queen, Vampiric, Increasing Ambition, Fetches, Evolving Wilds, Acadamy Rector, Idyllic, Enlightened, Mystical, Terramorphic Expanse.
I would guess the average EDH deck runs 4-5 pieces of spot creature removal and 8-20 tutors (depending on colors).
Dies to Removal is not an argument.
I was never making a dies to removal argument to begin with. I simply said you can play around him. I can completely ignore that he's there, understand that life points don't matter until they hit zero and get a removal spell for the long game, understand that life points don't matter until they reach zero and assemble my combo, or kill the player player controlling Ob Nixilus. Additionally most tutors are played long before he can come down, fetches will be cracked long before he's played or in response to his casting and you can do better than him for turn two reanimations.
He's out classed for both tutor hate and as a sacrifice.deck win condition. At the end of the day he's a flashy beatstick and EDH has no short supply of those.
Easier to cheat into play for me than stranglehold so he's definitely going to get strong consideration. I kind of like his growth ability too. Seems pretty easy to juice him up, fly/tramp through and hit pretty hard. The punisher ability is just gravy. For me he'd be competing with something like Vish Kal, a big evasive creature that synergizes with what my deck's trying to do anyway (move creatures in and out of GY).
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"I think EDH would be more fun for the majority of participants if players just showed eachother their decks rather than actually playing games out."
It's mediocre and overhyped. It will follow in the footsteps of cards like Homeward Path and Bane of Progress where the MTGS EDH community says this card is insane, it'll see play for about a month, and then be forgotten.
While his ability is flashy, it allows your opponents to play around it and as such it will never do anything. If you want an effect that punishes people for tutoring than use Stranglehold or Mindlock Orb. If you want a finisher for a Grave Pact centric deck use Massacre Wurm or Vicious Shadows.
He's going straight into my Big Black......Deck. (see sig) I love his ability and people saying that 10 life isnt that much? its a 1/4 of your health mate. Its better then you think, especially if you can protect him with things like boots and Champion's Helm. I don't think hes format warping, but he is a good dude and having flying and trample to boot is also good.
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I will be typing up deck lists as soon as I an be bothered, I really only play EDH:
Everyone is focused on the anti-tutor ability, but I think the really interesting (though admittedly not flashy) part of Ob 2.0 is the fact that he gets stats for killing creatures. He seems like a great general for a big rampy black deck. Cast him and then play Plague Wind or the new better Plague Wind the turn after and kill someone with one hit.
Everyone is focused on the anti-tutor ability, but I think the really interesting (though admittedly not flashy) part of Ob 2.0 is the fact that he gets stats for killing creatures. He seems like a great general for a big rampy black deck. Cast him and then play Plague Wind or the new better Plague Wind the turn after and kill someone with one hit.
His buff ability is excellent, think of a slightly narrower vulturous zombie. It also has frample. which makes him incredibly hard to block. The punisher effect is nice, but totally not even needed. I already see an Ob deck run with plenty of Shadowborn Apostle......
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Let's be real, Arcum ends the game before a 6 CMC dude is going to really mess his day up. And besides, while the 10 life hit may be huge, it doesn't actually STOP your opponent from tutoring... which matters when they're, you know, grabbing a game-ending infinite combo.
This guy doesn't actually do a good job at stopping all the things that he looks like he can. A deck that's tutoring out its combo can take 20 damage... and then just win. A ramp deck probably did all its ramping before you got him out. He's really nice against Birthing Pod and tutors that are just going for utility, and that's pretty much it.
But he's also a trampling flying dude that gets bigger when things die. That's not the worst thing in the world. The fact that he comes with a little added punisher utility is gravy.
I just think it's cool. It's not that crazy of a card and I may not play it in any of my decks. But it has potential to make quite a bit of hay in the right situation. It's kind of like a Notion Thief in that regard.
It does hose a lot of cards including some relatively dominant fair strategies like ramp. Saying, "Oh, well the ramp deck just won't play its ramp spells then," is like saying, "Oh, well I guess I'm going to sit here and not do what my deck does."
To everyone saying Stranglehold outclasses it:
You're right! But since when has redundancy harmed anyone? This is singleton people!
And in some decks, the mega-big ass extra beatstick with trample might come in handy.
people are also assuming that every time that someone tutors it's for combo pieces, I personally don't always tutor for combo pieces (in fact I only have one combo deck). If someone is willing to burn a tutor to get some removal for him then great they just wasted two cards (one of which is a tutor which are invaluable) and payed 10 life for it as well. That's a win in book.
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I will be typing up deck lists as soon as I an be bothered, I really only play EDH:
[EDH] It's built to be a casual format and to a specific vision, and if you don't like the vision, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to change to accommodate everyone. Big tent is not a goal.
This guy is wonderful.
-hoses searching
-fetch, rampant growth, tutor, transmute
-sac benefit
-can get large quickly
-infinite with Reveilark and Karmic Guide
I think it's very good in EDH.
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Avatar by Disappointing Signet Inc
EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
He is alright, not playable in competitive, playable in casual. However, I don't know any strategy that he would fit into well. I believe that is why he is evaluated mostly poorly, due to him being a creature (positive and negative). The biggest issue is CMC 6 that doesn't actually lock someone out, just discourages them. If you are playing good decks, they will likely have answers, if you are playing bad decks, they likely won't have tutors. Overall, shouldn't matter a ton. I doubt I will play him in any of my decks, or build a deck around him. I love Ob Nixilis, it is one of my favorite EDH decks, but this one costs one mana too much. If it cost CMC 5, he would be pushed and decently playable, at CMC 6, EDH just has better options.
I think all of these cards are more playable than Ob Nixilis, the Unshackled in the majority of situations. Therefore, I doubt I will be playing him too much.
This guy is ill! What do y'all think?
Gahiji, Token Politician
Rakdos, Lord of Riots; or a Dead Sprint to the Finish Line.
Zirilan of the Claw; or Dragon Toolbox of Hatred
While his ability is flashy, it allows your opponents to play around it and as such it will never do anything. If you want an effect that punishes people for tutoring than use Stranglehold or Mindlock Orb. If you want a finisher for a Grave Pact centric deck use Massacre Wurm or Vicious Shadows.
He's not good enough
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
Doesn't matter, unless you have some objection for flavor reasons. Legendary creatures aren't like planeswalkers. You can have as many different versions of a creature down as you want, providewd none of them share the same name. See Akroma, Crovax, Mirri, and probably a couple I'm forgetting.
Then they won't ramp. It's a strong play, but no one is actually going to play into the punisher effect unless they really needed to search for something.
I think he's a little better than that, though. It's a big enough hit that you're not going to see a whole lot of people search with him on the board. It's an effect that black hasn't really had access to before, the effect is asymmetrical, and black is the color most suited to dealing with the (sometimes) drawback of being on a creature. He's also a pretty respectable threat in any deck that's planning on sacrificing creatures. He's not going to drastically shift the metagame, but he's still a solid card.
The biggest issue I see with him is that he's competing with a lot of other very solid cards at 6 CMC, and I'm not sure how often I'm willing to go with him over other options.
You're making the fatal assumption that removal is on hand, which in a 100-card singleton format isn't always the case. If he sticks around, every tutor you draw becomes a painful card.
Put it this way:
Creature removal I see a lot of
Swords to Plowshares
Hero's Downfall
Path to Exile
Council's Judgment
Plus a few that depend on multi colors (Dreadbore, Mortify, Vindicate)
Tutors I see a lot of
Demonic, Diabolic, Beseech the Queen, Vampiric, Increasing Ambition, Fetches, Evolving Wilds, Acadamy Rector, Idyllic, Enlightened, Mystical, Terramorphic Expanse.
I would guess the average EDH deck runs 4-5 pieces of spot creature removal and 8-20 tutors (depending on colors).
Dies to Removal is not an argument.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Also: 10 life isn't that much in Commander. This doesn't even stop someone tutoring for their game-winning combo, and in fact, if someone is really reliant on tutoring, they can usually tutor for an answer to this guy and eat the damage.
I was never making a dies to removal argument to begin with. I simply said you can play around him. I can completely ignore that he's there, understand that life points don't matter until they hit zero and get a removal spell for the long game, understand that life points don't matter until they reach zero and assemble my combo, or kill the player player controlling Ob Nixilus. Additionally most tutors are played long before he can come down, fetches will be cracked long before he's played or in response to his casting and you can do better than him for turn two reanimations.
He's out classed for both tutor hate and as a sacrifice.deck win condition. At the end of the day he's a flashy beatstick and EDH has no short supply of those.
Except that Bane of Progress isn't forgotten at all..
This is a strong hate "bear". I can see this work in control decks that abuse lots of sacrificing. This guy will hit hard and slow down enemies.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Thraximundar Control voltron
Darien, King of Dudes The swarm
Karador, Ghost ChieftainJunk graveyard
Erebos, God of the DeadMy BIG BLACK.......deck
Zedruu the kindhearted My take on Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Roon of the Hidden Realm Bounce house
Altered Art Cards! | Commissions currently Closed
His buff ability is excellent, think of a slightly narrower vulturous zombie. It also has frample. which makes him incredibly hard to block. The punisher effect is nice, but totally not even needed. I already see an Ob deck run with plenty of Shadowborn Apostle......
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Let's be real, Arcum ends the game before a 6 CMC dude is going to really mess his day up. And besides, while the 10 life hit may be huge, it doesn't actually STOP your opponent from tutoring... which matters when they're, you know, grabbing a game-ending infinite combo.
This guy doesn't actually do a good job at stopping all the things that he looks like he can. A deck that's tutoring out its combo can take 20 damage... and then just win. A ramp deck probably did all its ramping before you got him out. He's really nice against Birthing Pod and tutors that are just going for utility, and that's pretty much it.
But he's also a trampling flying dude that gets bigger when things die. That's not the worst thing in the world. The fact that he comes with a little added punisher utility is gravy.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
It does hose a lot of cards including some relatively dominant fair strategies like ramp. Saying, "Oh, well the ramp deck just won't play its ramp spells then," is like saying, "Oh, well I guess I'm going to sit here and not do what my deck does."
You're right! But since when has redundancy harmed anyone? This is singleton people!
And in some decks, the mega-big ass extra beatstick with trample might come in handy.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
Thraximundar Control voltron
Darien, King of Dudes The swarm
Karador, Ghost ChieftainJunk graveyard
Erebos, God of the DeadMy BIG BLACK.......deck
Zedruu the kindhearted My take on Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Roon of the Hidden Realm Bounce house
However, a 4/4 flying trample for 6 that grows when creatures die? I think my Thraximundar list has a new friend.
-hoses searching
-fetch, rampant growth, tutor, transmute
-sac benefit
-can get large quickly
-infinite with Reveilark and Karmic Guide
I think it's very good in EDH.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
The following are highly playable CMC 6 black creatures:
Ascendant Evincar
Champion of Stray Souls (meh, but sees occasional play)
Demonic Hordes
Dread
Geth, Lord of the Vault
Grave Titan
Harvester of Souls
Helldozer
Iname, Death Aspect (build around)
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Massacre Wurm
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Necropolis Regent (in combat decks, brootal)
Nirkana Revenant
Pontiff of Blight
Reaper from the Abyss
Skeletal Vampire
Visara the Dreadful
I think all of these cards are more playable than Ob Nixilis, the Unshackled in the majority of situations. Therefore, I doubt I will be playing him too much.
Note: This doesn't even include artifacts, which, off the top of my head, include Duplicant, Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite, Thopter Assembly and more. (EDIT: Did a search, only missed Triskelion.)
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
With access to Necromancy and Prophet of Kruphix, I have two ways to play it at instant speed. It may not win games but will be fun to resolve.
Hes not a finisher but hes a great roadblock. In a tutor and combo heavy meta, it may just be enough to slow people down and soak up removal.