I've been playing with some guys who have some seriously casual decks. And they're the kind that like 2+ hour long political games. Battlecruiser, big creatures, not much removal, etc etc.
I was talking to them about the idea of "Can you ever permanently get rid of someone's commander?" assuming the deck pilot didn't make a mistake. Just because its a fun topic and I know the answer.
What happens if I Hinder your commander to the bottom, can you get him back? Yes with cards like Chord of Calling.
Ok, what if I Hinder your commander into your library and then cast Praetor's Grasp, keeping him in exile forever. Yes because of rule 903.13;
If a card is put into the exile zone face down from anywhere, and a player is allowed to look at that card in exile, the player must immediately do so. If it’s a commander owned by another player, the player that looked at it turns it face up and puts it into the command zone.
Ok, but what if no one can look at it, such as Hinder it to the top, activate Pyxis of Pandemonium and then destroy my Pyxis? Is it gone forever? Well, it would be... but Karn Liberated can restart the game.
Anyway, this is all got my thinking. I wanted to build an inoffensive "unkillable" deck. And I wanted to ask for ideas on things that would kill me and answers. I picked Karador, Ghost Chieftain because he seemed like the best with the inbuilt recursion. Also in casual games being able to recur Spore Frog and Kami of False Hope seems good.
A couple of points
I realise that the only way to become truly unkillable is to lockdown your opponents. Destroy all their lands, counterspell lock them etc etc. That's not what I want. Think of it like, your deck is almost a challenge to opponents. Build better decks to beat me.
Whats so good about the two Teysa? Is it cause they give you a repeatable targeted creature exile?
And you definitely can't use Braids against casual players. They are ok with you hitting their hands, creatures whatever. But if you hit lands you are the bad guy. And you can't play cards like Acidic Slime because if you get a Karmic Guide loop and someone points out that you could destroy all their lands, but you say "I don't want to" then you're being that guy.
i pulled off a sort of unkillable board state once. its really weird, but its an infinite loop, so the game technically tied (though we all agreed that i won infinitely).
i donated lich's mirror to my last opponent, cast false cure, then killed him via combat damage. he then shuffles up, but since lich's mirror is mine, it doesn't get shuffled off, and starts in his battlefield. but as his life resets, the gain 20 life actually makes him lose 40 life, meaning he loses again, lich's mirror triggers again, and so on and so forth. that way, you can still be in the game, but your commander would be safe. in the most convoluted way possible.
i dont think its actually ever possible to have a 100% safe commander. its gonna die/tucked/exiled at some point if it is affecting the game in some meaningful way.
Of note, there is a way to "permanently" deny someone their Commander (though Karn restarting the game would still give it back to them):
If a creature phases out with auras or equipment attached to them, those cards phase out with that creature, and will only phase in when that creature phases back in. This is known as phasing "indirectly".
If a creature token phases out, it immediately ceases to exist.
If a card is phased out indirectly while attached to a creature token, it will never phase back in, because the card it is attached to will never phase back in.
So all we need to do is somehow turn their general into an equipment, attach it to a token, and then phase that token out!
The easiest way to do this is: Soul Sculptor to make the general no longer a creature Liquimetal Coating to make the general an artifact Bludgeon Brawl makes the general an equipment Mimic Vat or Soul Foundry imprints Vulshok Battlemaster. Activate to create a token, which will attach that equipment to the token Battlemaster
Swing. Teferi's Vale triggers at the end of combat and phases the token out.
As far as "unkillability" goes, the most succinct combination of cards I've seen is this:
Privileged Position and Greater Auramancy to make everything untargetable Solitary Confinement keeps you from taking damage or being targeted. Gibbering Descent lets you skip your upkeep so you never sac the Confinement. [c] Blood Moon turns off all nonbasic lands Dovescape turns any opposing spell into Birds, stopping them from being able to use Merciless Eviction or similar to clear your field Humility prevents any creature-based effects from wiping your field
Your opponents are still free to do things, but nothing they do will have any real value on you, because noncreatures are reduced to birds and creatures are humbled (neither of which can damage you), and lands are all basic.
Cycling effects can work, but Resounding Wave can't target your stuff, and Decree of Pain finds no creatures to get rid of.
Uncounterable effects work, but Abrupt Decay can't target your stuff, and Obliterate can't destroy enchantments
There's nothing with Forecast, Channel, Suspend Triggers, or other effects that can kill you
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i pulled off a sort of unkillable board state once. its really weird, but its an infinite loop, so the game technically tied (though we all agreed that i won infinitely).
i donated lich's mirror to my last opponent, cast false cure, then killed him via combat damage. he then shuffles up, but since lich's mirror is mine, it doesn't get shuffled off, and starts in his battlefield. but as his life resets, the gain 20 life actually makes him lose 40 life, meaning he loses again, lich's mirror triggers again, and so on and so forth. that way, you can still be in the game, but your commander would be safe. in the most convoluted way possible.
i dont think its actually ever possible to have a 100% safe commander. its gonna die/tucked/exiled at some point if it is affecting the game in some meaningful way.
That's not unkillable though, that's an game ending infinite loop. Like having Enchanted Evening in play and playing Ajani's Chosen with no one having an answer. I mean resiliency.
Dying and exile both mean you can recast him. And tucked you can tutor for him.
For example, if they Worst Fears you and choose to leave your commander in exile you can use cards like Riftsweeper to get it back.
Obviously you can't make a total 100% immune deck. Someone could mill you out and hit you with Identity Crisis. You still have to draw and play stuff when its relevant, but you can build a deck and put these sort of answers in.
Of note, there is a way to "permanently" deny someone their Commander (though Karn restarting the game would still give it back to them):
If a creature phases out with auras or equipment attached to them, those cards phase out with that creature, and will only phase in when that creature phases back in. This is known as phasing "indirectly".
If a creature token phases out, it immediately ceases to exist.
If a card is phased out indirectly while attached to a creature token, it will never phase back in, because the card it is attached to will never phase back in.
So all we need to do is somehow turn their general into an equipment, attach it to a token, and then phase that token out!
The easiest way to do this is: Soul Sculptor to make the general no longer a creature Liquimetal Coating to make the general an artifact Bludgeon Brawl makes the general an equipment Mimic Vat or Soul Foundry imprints Vulshok Battlemaster. Activate to create a token, which will attach that equipment to the token Battlemaster
Swing. Teferi's Vale triggers at the end of combat and phases the token out.
As far as "unkillability" goes, the most succinct combination of cards I've seen is this:
Privileged Position and Greater Auramancy to make everything untargetable Solitary Confinement keeps you from taking damage or being targeted. Gibbering Descent lets you skip your upkeep so you never sac the Confinement. [c] Blood Moon turns off all nonbasic lands Dovescape turns any opposing spell into Birds, stopping them from being able to use Merciless Eviction or similar to clear your field Humility prevents any creature-based effects from wiping your field
Your opponents are still free to do things, but nothing they do will have any real value on you, because noncreatures are reduced to birds and creatures are humbled (neither of which can damage you), and lands are all basic.
Cycling effects can work, but Resounding Wave can't target your stuff, and Decree of Pain finds no creatures to get rid of.
Uncounterable effects work, but Abrupt Decay can't target your stuff, and Obliterate can't destroy enchantments
There's nothing with Forecast, Channel, Suspend Triggers, or other effects that can kill you
Wow that is legit impressive. I've had someone do most of that in a game before. But I beat it with Boseiju, Who Shelters All casting Apocalypse in my Jhoira deck. If they'd had Blood Moon, I couldn't have done that.
The problem with all the of the "permanently get rid of Commander" examples is that Karn is the silver bullet. The exception being if your opponent is allowed infinite setup and for example, then they've got like infinite Meddling Mages naming every card in magic, and a Stabilizer so you couldn't cycle Decree, and an X so you couldn't Y and etc etc.
So in your example you could counter it by having stuff in play already. Like Tranquil Grove. But there's no point to that conversation because it continues backwards endless. "Well then I remove your Grove before I go for it", "Well I counter your removal" etc etc. And your deck would have to be 5 color playing Blood Moon in it which hurts you the most. And playing Blood Moon hurts lands which makes you that guy.
So its pretty cool and its a fun thought experiment, but its not quite what I'm after. Because if you're allowed infinite setup, then its easier to exile every card they have, and play Platinum Angel and Abyssal Persecutor. Technically I'm unkillable but that's not the point
You should run Obstinate Familiar. It will randomly prevent you from losing to Nekusar players or getting stroked out. You can also just win by skipping draws until the other person decks themselves if you have some sort of protection like Solitary Confinement running .
Have you tried Darksteel Forge + Leonin Abunas + Mycosynth Lattice + Platinum Emperion or Palisade Giant? With all the recursion effects and stuff you're going to have, the only way to get around that combo would be Hallowed Burial. And there are more than enough tutors out there to search them back from your library once someone gets a burial off. My husband does this to me frequently in our 1v1 matches and it's a pain to try to figure out a way around, but it is a fun challenge.
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EDH Decks
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Vorel of the Hull Clade
-------------------------
Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
Sharuum, the Hegemon
Kaalia of the Vast
Rafiq of the Many
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
You should run Obstinate Familiar. It will randomly prevent you from losing to Nekusar players or getting stroked out. You can also just win by skipping draws until the other person decks themselves if you have some sort of protection like Solitary Confinement running .
Obstinate Familiar would mean having to play Red. And I'm pretty sure you can beat most Nekusar decks with lifegain and well-timed enchantment removal. For example, playing Purity. And if you were worried about getting stroked out, hexproof is a far better answer because it protects you against a whole range of threats. For example Seht's Tiger or Dawn Charm.
But basically, its the fact that you can't play it in Karador and Karador seems like the best commander for this.
Have you tried Darksteel Forge + Leonin Abunas + Mycosynth Lattice + Platinum Emperion or Palisade Giant? With all the recursion effects and stuff you're going to have, the only way to get around that combo would be Hallowed Burial. And there are more than enough tutors out there to search them back from your library once someone gets a burial off. My husband does this to me frequently in our 1v1 matches and it's a pain to try to figure out a way around, but it is a fun challenge.
The problem with Platinum Emperion is that you can't play lifegain. That's the problem I've run into in every EDH deck where I've wanted Platinum Emperion, its just better to be hexproof/shroud and have a huge lifepool. Palisade Giant is good though. You could Fated Return it as a trick
That is a pretty sweet little combo though. But you'd only play Darksteel if you were playing a lot of artifacts. And I only have four, Crucible of Worlds, Platinum Angel, Solemn Simulacrum and Skullclamp. CatParty and Wildfire393 were talking about enchantments, and I think its better to go the enchantment route than artifacts in Junk colors.
You can beat it with Stony Silence where no one can tap for mana again, or Merciless Eviction to exile all permanents or Hellkite Tyrant to steal all your permanents. Actually, turning all permanents into artifacts seems like it could backfire badly.
The problem with Platinum Emperion is that you can't play lifegain. That's the problem I've run into in every EDH deck where I've wanted Platinum Emperion, its just better to be hexproof/shroud and have a huge lifepool. Palisade Giant is good though. You could Fated Return it as a trick
That is a pretty sweet little combo though. But you'd only play Darksteel if you were playing a lot of artifacts. And I only have four, Crucible of Worlds, Platinum Angel, Solemn Simulacrum and Skullclamp. CatParty and Wildfire393 were talking about enchantments, and I think its better to go the enchantment route than artifacts in Junk colors.
You can beat it with Stony Silence where no one can tap for mana again, or Merciless Eviction to exile all permanents or Hellkite Tyrant to steal all your permanents. Actually, turning all permanents into artifacts seems like it could backfire badly.
You're right, and he runs that in a Sharuum the Hegemon artifact deck. Never thought about Stony Silence though... I'll have to keep that one in mind. The combo does back fire every now and then, but so far, others that we play with haven't had those answers, it's good to keep in mind though, thanks
Also the Fated Return thing is a great idea, I'll have to tell him about that (regrets it already)
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EDH Decks
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Vorel of the Hull Clade
-------------------------
Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
Sharuum, the Hegemon
Kaalia of the Vast
Rafiq of the Many
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
You're right, and he runs that in a Sharuum the Hegemon artifact deck. Never thought about Stony Silence though... I'll have to keep that one in mind. The combo does back fire every now and then, but so far, others that we play with haven't had those answers, it's good to keep in mind though, thanks
Also the Fated Return thing is a great idea, I'll have to tell him about that (regrets it already)
Because if you're against a casual beats deck, and you bring back an indestructible Palisade Giant. Do you just put your hand down, look at them and say "Do you have ANY cards that deal with this?" I feel like that's what you do
Because if you're against a casual beats deck, and you bring back an indestructible Palisade Giant. Do you just put your hand down, look at them and say "Do you have ANY cards that deal with this?" I feel like that's what you do
Pretty much yeah, it depends on who we're with, sometimes no one has an answer, sometimes someone has something really obscure and clever. One guy we played with would turn everything into enchantments, and then turn those enchantments into creatures and it was a mess. Funny but a mess crazy games ensue.
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EDH Decks
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Vorel of the Hull Clade
-------------------------
Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
Sharuum, the Hegemon
Kaalia of the Vast
Rafiq of the Many
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Dovescape leads to seriously bonkers stuff. Blood Moon is amazing. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is amazing on his own when you're playing this route, because you have the ability to pick and choose what resolves. Teferi + Knowledge Pool or Possibility Storm is a great way to stop people from killing you, because they're unable to cast!
One really interesting one for when someone finds some way to resolve an Apocalypse: (WARNING! Opalescence invoked! WARNING!)
If you can flash them in, playing Opalescence, Humility THEN Enchanted Evening will make all permanents aside from Opalescence a 1/1 Enchantment Creature. Then playing Ghostway will make your boardstate go away until EoT aside from Opalescence, leaving you with a safe boardstate and Humility too boot! Not to mention that their whole field will be exploded.
It DOES need to be played in that order if you want to keep your lands, because Opalescence and Humility both apply P/T in layer 7b, and thus the one played last chooses P/T. If you play Enchanted Evening first all the lands explode. If you play Humility before Opalescence all the lands explode. Lands tend to explode here. Smoldering Crater may be turned into a smoldering crater.
Hard to pull off? Hell yes! Rewarding as hell? Even moreso!
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Dovescape leads to seriously bonkers stuff. Blood Moon is amazing. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is amazing on his own when you're playing this route, because you have the ability to pick and choose what resolves. Teferi + Knowledge Pool or Possibility Storm is a great way to stop people from killing you, because they're unable to cast!
One really interesting one for when someone finds some way to resolve an Apocalypse: (WARNING! Opalescence invoked! WARNING!)
If you can flash them in, playing Opalescence, Humility THEN Enchanted Evening will make all permanents aside from Opalescence a 1/1 Enchantment Creature. Then playing Ghostway will make your boardstate go away until EoT aside from Opalescence, leaving you with a safe boardstate and Humility too boot! Not to mention that their whole field will be exploded.
It DOES need to be played in that order if you want to keep your lands, because Opalescence and Humility both apply P/T in layer 7b, and thus the one played last chooses P/T. If you play Enchanted Evening first all the lands explode. If you play Humility before Opalescence all the lands explode. Lands tend to explode here. Smoldering Crater may be turned into a smoldering crater.
Hard to pull off? Hell yes! Rewarding as hell? Even moreso!
EDH Decks
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Vorel of the Hull Clade
-------------------------
Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
Sharuum, the Hegemon
Kaalia of the Vast
Rafiq of the Many
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
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I was talking to them about the idea of "Can you ever permanently get rid of someone's commander?" assuming the deck pilot didn't make a mistake. Just because its a fun topic and I know the answer.
What happens if I Hinder your commander to the bottom, can you get him back? Yes with cards like Chord of Calling.
Ok, what if I Hinder your commander into your library and then cast Praetor's Grasp, keeping him in exile forever. Yes because of rule 903.13; Ok, but what if no one can look at it, such as Hinder it to the top, activate Pyxis of Pandemonium and then destroy my Pyxis? Is it gone forever? Well, it would be... but Karn Liberated can restart the game.
Anyway, this is all got my thinking. I wanted to build an inoffensive "unkillable" deck. And I wanted to ask for ideas on things that would kill me and answers. I picked Karador, Ghost Chieftain because he seemed like the best with the inbuilt recursion. Also in casual games being able to recur Spore Frog and Kami of False Hope seems good.
A couple of points
Attacking - Blazing Archon, Spore Frog, Kami of False Hope, plus just life gain
Prot. to me - Aegis of the Gods, Seht's Tiger
Mill - Purity, Krosan Reclamation, Loaming Shaman, Fated Return (on Platinum Angel)
Exile - Riftsweeper, Pull from Eternity
Land D - Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds
Board wipes - Planar Cleansing, Austere Command, Bane of Progress
And after that round it out with ramp, lifegain, Sun Titan package, Ranger of Eos package, Reveillark/Karmic Guide/Saffi Eriksdotter and fun casual cards like Abyssal Persecutor and Little Girl.
TL;DR: Building deck to survive in long casual games. What cards help you survive in WGB?
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
For Karador though, where possible the creature versions though right?
So Dread instead of No Mercy. And Archetype of Endurance before you add Privileged Position right (though I have both so I'll probably use both).
Although, I could probably play an entire enchantment suite, like Greater Auramancy and play the support cards like Replenish.
Ophiomancer is a good one, I forgot about it because I never bought any of the precons. It should go well with cards like Viscera Seer, Butcher of Malakir, Sadistic Hypnotist, Aura Shards. And its a rattlesnake.
Whats so good about the two Teysa? Is it cause they give you a repeatable targeted creature exile?
And you definitely can't use Braids against casual players. They are ok with you hitting their hands, creatures whatever. But if you hit lands you are the bad guy. And you can't play cards like Acidic Slime because if you get a Karmic Guide loop and someone points out that you could destroy all their lands, but you say "I don't want to" then you're being that guy.
i donated lich's mirror to my last opponent, cast false cure, then killed him via combat damage. he then shuffles up, but since lich's mirror is mine, it doesn't get shuffled off, and starts in his battlefield. but as his life resets, the gain 20 life actually makes him lose 40 life, meaning he loses again, lich's mirror triggers again, and so on and so forth. that way, you can still be in the game, but your commander would be safe. in the most convoluted way possible.
i dont think its actually ever possible to have a 100% safe commander. its gonna die/tucked/exiled at some point if it is affecting the game in some meaningful way.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
If a creature phases out with auras or equipment attached to them, those cards phase out with that creature, and will only phase in when that creature phases back in. This is known as phasing "indirectly".
If a creature token phases out, it immediately ceases to exist.
If a card is phased out indirectly while attached to a creature token, it will never phase back in, because the card it is attached to will never phase back in.
So all we need to do is somehow turn their general into an equipment, attach it to a token, and then phase that token out!
The easiest way to do this is:
Soul Sculptor to make the general no longer a creature
Liquimetal Coating to make the general an artifact
Bludgeon Brawl makes the general an equipment
Mimic Vat or Soul Foundry imprints Vulshok Battlemaster. Activate to create a token, which will attach that equipment to the token Battlemaster
Swing. Teferi's Vale triggers at the end of combat and phases the token out.
As far as "unkillability" goes, the most succinct combination of cards I've seen is this:
Privileged Position and Greater Auramancy to make everything untargetable
Solitary Confinement keeps you from taking damage or being targeted. Gibbering Descent lets you skip your upkeep so you never sac the Confinement. [c]
Blood Moon turns off all nonbasic lands
Dovescape turns any opposing spell into Birds, stopping them from being able to use Merciless Eviction or similar to clear your field
Humility prevents any creature-based effects from wiping your field
Your opponents are still free to do things, but nothing they do will have any real value on you, because noncreatures are reduced to birds and creatures are humbled (neither of which can damage you), and lands are all basic.
Cycling effects can work, but Resounding Wave can't target your stuff, and Decree of Pain finds no creatures to get rid of.
Uncounterable effects work, but Abrupt Decay can't target your stuff, and Obliterate can't destroy enchantments
There's nothing with Forecast, Channel, Suspend Triggers, or other effects that can kill you
Currently Playing:
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That's not unkillable though, that's an game ending infinite loop. Like having Enchanted Evening in play and playing Ajani's Chosen with no one having an answer. I mean resiliency.
Dying and exile both mean you can recast him. And tucked you can tutor for him.
For example, if they Worst Fears you and choose to leave your commander in exile you can use cards like Riftsweeper to get it back.
Obviously you can't make a total 100% immune deck. Someone could mill you out and hit you with Identity Crisis. You still have to draw and play stuff when its relevant, but you can build a deck and put these sort of answers in.
Wow that is legit impressive. I've had someone do most of that in a game before. But I beat it with Boseiju, Who Shelters All casting Apocalypse in my Jhoira deck. If they'd had Blood Moon, I couldn't have done that.
The problem with all the of the "permanently get rid of Commander" examples is that Karn is the silver bullet. The exception being if your opponent is allowed infinite setup and for example, then they've got like infinite Meddling Mages naming every card in magic, and a Stabilizer so you couldn't cycle Decree, and an X so you couldn't Y and etc etc.
So in your example you could counter it by having stuff in play already. Like Tranquil Grove. But there's no point to that conversation because it continues backwards endless. "Well then I remove your Grove before I go for it", "Well I counter your removal" etc etc. And your deck would have to be 5 color playing Blood Moon in it which hurts you the most. And playing Blood Moon hurts lands which makes you that guy.
So its pretty cool and its a fun thought experiment, but its not quite what I'm after. Because if you're allowed infinite setup, then its easier to exile every card they have, and play Platinum Angel and Abyssal Persecutor. Technically I'm unkillable but that's not the point
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Vorel of the Hull Clade
-------------------------
Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
Sharuum, the Hegemon
Kaalia of the Vast
Rafiq of the Many
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Obstinate Familiar would mean having to play Red. And I'm pretty sure you can beat most Nekusar decks with lifegain and well-timed enchantment removal. For example, playing Purity. And if you were worried about getting stroked out, hexproof is a far better answer because it protects you against a whole range of threats. For example Seht's Tiger or Dawn Charm.
But basically, its the fact that you can't play it in Karador and Karador seems like the best commander for this.
The problem with Platinum Emperion is that you can't play lifegain. That's the problem I've run into in every EDH deck where I've wanted Platinum Emperion, its just better to be hexproof/shroud and have a huge lifepool. Palisade Giant is good though. You could Fated Return it as a trick
That is a pretty sweet little combo though. But you'd only play Darksteel if you were playing a lot of artifacts. And I only have four, Crucible of Worlds, Platinum Angel, Solemn Simulacrum and Skullclamp. CatParty and Wildfire393 were talking about enchantments, and I think its better to go the enchantment route than artifacts in Junk colors.
You can beat it with Stony Silence where no one can tap for mana again, or Merciless Eviction to exile all permanents or Hellkite Tyrant to steal all your permanents. Actually, turning all permanents into artifacts seems like it could backfire badly.
You're right, and he runs that in a Sharuum the Hegemon artifact deck. Never thought about Stony Silence though... I'll have to keep that one in mind. The combo does back fire every now and then, but so far, others that we play with haven't had those answers, it's good to keep in mind though, thanks
Also the Fated Return thing is a great idea, I'll have to tell him about that (regrets it already)
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Vorel of the Hull Clade
-------------------------
Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
Sharuum, the Hegemon
Kaalia of the Vast
Rafiq of the Many
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Because if you're against a casual beats deck, and you bring back an indestructible Palisade Giant. Do you just put your hand down, look at them and say "Do you have ANY cards that deal with this?" I feel like that's what you do
Pretty much yeah, it depends on who we're with, sometimes no one has an answer, sometimes someone has something really obscure and clever. One guy we played with would turn everything into enchantments, and then turn those enchantments into creatures and it was a mess. Funny but a mess crazy games ensue.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Vorel of the Hull Clade
-------------------------
Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
Sharuum, the Hegemon
Kaalia of the Vast
Rafiq of the Many
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Dovescape leads to seriously bonkers stuff. Blood Moon is amazing. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is amazing on his own when you're playing this route, because you have the ability to pick and choose what resolves. Teferi + Knowledge Pool or Possibility Storm is a great way to stop people from killing you, because they're unable to cast!
One really interesting one for when someone finds some way to resolve an Apocalypse: (WARNING! Opalescence invoked! WARNING!)
If you can flash them in, playing Opalescence, Humility THEN Enchanted Evening will make all permanents aside from Opalescence a 1/1 Enchantment Creature. Then playing Ghostway will make your boardstate go away until EoT aside from Opalescence, leaving you with a safe boardstate and Humility too boot! Not to mention that their whole field will be exploded.
It DOES need to be played in that order if you want to keep your lands, because Opalescence and Humility both apply P/T in layer 7b, and thus the one played last chooses P/T. If you play Enchanted Evening first all the lands explode. If you play Humility before Opalescence all the lands explode. Lands tend to explode here. Smoldering Crater may be turned into a smoldering crater.
Hard to pull off? Hell yes! Rewarding as hell? Even moreso!
For bonus points include Eternal Witness, Pull from Eternity, Mnemonic Wall and Archaeomancer to be able to do this over and over.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I have a friend who did exactly that, only he used Open the Vaults and Omniscience to get it off on a regular basis in a Jenara, Asura of War enchantment deck.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Vorel of the Hull Clade
-------------------------
Niv Mizzet, the Firemind
Sharuum, the Hegemon
Kaalia of the Vast
Rafiq of the Many
Scion of the Ur-Dragon