I'm in the process of building a counter aggro/recursion Marchesa deck. The hardest part at this point is getting it down to 99 cards among all the good candidates.
Yeah, tell me about it... I'm still stuck on like 128 cards lol (including lands)
I need to drop 16 still. I think I started at around 165 possibilities, not including lands.
I'm in the process of building a counter aggro/recursion Marchesa deck. The hardest part at this point is getting it down to 99 cards among all the good candidates.
Yeah, tell me about it... I'm still stuck on like 128 cards lol (including lands)
I need to drop 16 still. I think I started at around 165 possibilities, not including lands.
Did anyone think that Marchesa can be good in Duel games? I don't play much multiplayer, and seems to me that, if I built it properly, Marchesa can be very powerful too, abusing the synergy of the +1/+1 counters and controlling the opponent. Maybe using Greed and Unspeakable Symbol to lower my life, and make damage through Warstorm Surge/Vicious Shadows, or using others things, like Altar of Dementia.
Did anyone think that Marchesa can be good in Duel games? I don't play much multiplayer, and seems to me that, if I built it properly, Marchesa can be very powerful too, abusing the synergy of the +1/+1 counters and controlling the opponent. Maybe using Greed and Unspeakable Symbol to lower my life, and make damage through Warstorm Surge/Vicious Shadows, or using others things, like Altar of Dementia.
I could be off here, because duel commander is very much not my thing, but my impression is that Marchesa would probably be pretty slow compared to most competitive 1v1 decks... and if you aren't going for competitive, I'm not sure what the appeal of 1v1 would be.
Yea, if you need some land destruction, run avalanche riders with her. Also cauldron does work as a great backup to marchesa being tucked. Other than that, if your board has 0 counters, it saves most of your dudes, and then you can swing for dethrone, removing the -1/-1's so you can give persist again. It's just another angle of advantage.
I went for Ravenous Baboons because the echo trigger would annoy me. Plus... Baboons!
Also after some testing here are my thoughts:
1- Insanely fun to play, and a good aggro deck. (I'm not super low curve, but starting turn 4 I start swinging stuff and generally kill the last person like turn 8-9. I guess it's less aggro and more sustained beatdown.)
2- Impaler Shrike is insane and should be on the main post.
3- You need a lot of life loss. I think Treasonous Ogre is a top card because we can easily avoid being the highest life. Same with Necropotence and others. Some good choices are Slaughter and Ashes to Ashes.
5- I need to pack more artifact and enchantment hate. I faced a guy who dropped humility yesterday, and I would have lost had he not been mana screwed and down to 17 life, allowing me to beat him to death pretty quickly.
All in all great deck, and very fun.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
5- I need to pack more artifact and enchantment hate. I faced a guy who dropped humility yesterday, and I would have lost had he not been mana screwed and down to 17 life, allowing me to beat him to death pretty quickly.
I don't know your list, but I recommend Ingot Chewer. Pay 1 to evoke it, then shift a counter onto it somehow before it's sacrificed and keep doing it.
5- I need to pack more artifact and enchantment hate. I faced a guy who dropped humility yesterday, and I would have lost had he not been mana screwed and down to 17 life, allowing me to beat him to death pretty quickly.
I don't know your list, but I recommend Ingot Chewer. Pay 1 to evoke it, then shift a counter onto it somehow before it's sacrificed and keep doing it.
Not sure about that. I run Torch Fiend and just slotted in Reckless Reveler so I can avoid the "somehow" part and have a better chance at reusing the effect.
I know conscripts hits everything, but I can't reliably sac non-creatures like I can creatures. Also 22 removal spells. Heh. Things go boom.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
would dethrone stack if a creature already has dethrone?
to make it dethrone 2
It does, but as 2 separate triggers. For the most part that's better for us because someone can't use a single stifle to stop it. (Like if they had Smite and would want to avoid it coming back.)
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I played against a +1/+1 Marchesa deck yesterday and was super unimpressed with it. It seemed very clunky and vulnerable to pretty much everything.
I believe it, the +1/+1 counter route does look "clunky". I've got one coming (The Black Rose), my strategy is more straight forward, use her as an early commander to get a few hits in, backed up with a handful of ETBF creatures (not tons), control them out midgame then crush them with backbreaking spells late game. The deck was already built this way, just wanted a cheap Grixis commander (Jeleva is to goofy, Mishra to combo, lord of tresserhorn...gak! & Tetsuo way to much $$ for a 3/3, everything else seems to expensive, was using Crosis but he is less than subtle). Her abilities to me are just gravy next to her casting cost.
Honestly, the theme I want to try out with her is a steal creature/sacrifice theme. She states any creature you have with a +1/+1 counter comes back to your side under your control. Tack in some haste effects, sac outlets, etcetc.
I think most Marchesa decks are at least going to want a couple effects that deal with +1/+1 counters to protect their commander/creatures, and at least a couple theft effects, and maybe a bit of reanimation.
The rest is largely up to the individual, but I've liked my ETB/aggro oriented list so far. ^.^
I just finished my first brew of a Marchesa deck. It's sac/aggro, with counter shenanigans intended mostly to keep being able to sac/recur my stuff and protect it from boardwipes. Adding in multiple Grave Pact sorts of effects and some mass destruction will sometimes make it difficult for opponents to keep creatures in play.
I'm not 100% comfortable with it yet, but I'll see how it plays tonight.
Opal Palace seems like an obvious choice with Marchesa.
Interesting that the #1 response was "+1/+1" counter shenanigans, when mana-less creature recursion is the one and only thing I've ever tried to do with +1/+/1's. Marchesa will just do that automatically to anything that can attack the Oloro player. So, I guess give my stuff haste or make sure it costs 3 or less...
Should be pretty easy to win with this deck. Jokulhaups, Obliterate, Devastation. Every Ponder in the game. 10-12 counterspells. Add mana cards. Every Elvish Visionary in these colors, then Gray Ogres. Bonus points for Gray Ogre himself. He will probably be 7/8 by the end of the game.
...get flamed. Lose friends irl. Wonder how you could build Marchesa some other way, then give up out of lack of interest. Go back to playing Xenagos Giants tribal.
Interesting that the #1 response was "+1/+1" counter shenanigans, when mana-less creature recursion is the one and only thing I've ever tried to do with +1/+/1's. Marchesa will just do that automatically to anything that can attack the Oloro player. So, I guess give my stuff haste or make sure it costs 3 or less...
Should be pretty easy to win with this deck. Jokulhaups, Obliterate, Devastation. Every Ponder in the game. 10-12 counterspells. Add mana cards. Every Elvish Visionary in these colors, then Gray Ogres. Bonus points for Gray Ogre himself. He will probably be 7/8 by the end of the game.
...get flamed. Lose friends irl. Wonder how you could build Marchesa some other way, then give up out of lack of interest. Go back to playing Xenagos Giants tribal.
6 pages of discussion on her. I thought she was kinda cool but..wow, why are there so many people so focused on this one particular new commander? I can't think of any released any time recently that got this kinda focus, what's the deal? Why are so many people all over Marchesa?
I think it's that in the Conspiracy set she was the only tri-color general, and in Grixis to boot. Plus, her abilities create many potential builds different from the typical Grixis shell.
6 pages of discussion on her. I thought she was kinda cool but..wow, why are there so many people so focused on this one particular new commander? I can't think of any released any time recently that got this kinda focus, what's the deal? Why are so many people all over Marchesa?
Dethrone is a fun mechanic, and her second (third?) ability opens of some interesting strategies, which is what I think hooked most people. She's been pretty fun so far.
Also few things noted, lots of instant speed sac outlets are a must, living death/archaeomancer loops are incredibly strong, haste enablers make the deck way more consistent, and it's not uncommon for sneak attack to end the game on the spot.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Also few things noted, lots of instant speed sac outlets are a must, living death/archaeomancer loops are incredibly strong, haste enablers make the deck way more consistent, and it's not uncommon for sneak attack to end the game on the spot.
I don't run Archaeomancer in my version, because it doesn't run a lot of instants and sorceries, and most of them that are there are for redundancy purposes (extra sac outlets and card draw, things like that). I might have to try it though, just because of the loop potential. Sneak Attack is pretty brutal, especially when you use it to dump a bunch of tramplers, Dack's Duplicate and Necropollis Regent into play.
So far, Decree of Pain has been the single most devastating card in my Marchesa deck. It's effectively been "wrath everyone else and draw 12+ cards" every time I've played it in the deck. I've also gotten tons of value out of Deathbringer Thoctar.
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I need to drop 16 still. I think I started at around 165 possibilities, not including lands.
223 here, not including lands
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|StandardI could be off here, because duel commander is very much not my thing, but my impression is that Marchesa would probably be pretty slow compared to most competitive 1v1 decks... and if you aren't going for competitive, I'm not sure what the appeal of 1v1 would be.
I went for Ravenous Baboons because the echo trigger would annoy me. Plus... Baboons!
Also after some testing here are my thoughts:
1- Insanely fun to play, and a good aggro deck. (I'm not super low curve, but starting turn 4 I start swinging stuff and generally kill the last person like turn 8-9. I guess it's less aggro and more sustained beatdown.)
2- Impaler Shrike is insane and should be on the main post.
3- You need a lot of life loss. I think Treasonous Ogre is a top card because we can easily avoid being the highest life. Same with Necropotence and others. Some good choices are Slaughter and Ashes to Ashes.
4- Deathrender is great here. Especially because any sac outlet allows you to flash out things that matter. They play Academy Rector? Flash out Phyrexian Ingester!
5- I need to pack more artifact and enchantment hate. I faced a guy who dropped humility yesterday, and I would have lost had he not been mana screwed and down to 17 life, allowing me to beat him to death pretty quickly.
All in all great deck, and very fun.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Not sure about that. I run Torch Fiend and just slotted in Reckless Reveler so I can avoid the "somehow" part and have a better chance at reusing the effect.
Also having Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, 2 power is better.
For reference, in total I've got the following removal now:
1 vendetta
1 ashes to ashes
1 fleshbag marauder
1 slaughter
1 deathbringer thoctar
1 butcher of malakir
1 phyrexian ingester
1 curse of the swine
1 slave of bolas
1 spinal embrace
1 zealous conscripts
1 simic manipulator
1 flayer of the hatebound
1 attrition
1 karn liberated
1 nicol bolas, planeswalker
1 chaos warp
1 cephalid constable
Other
1 torch fiend
1 ravenous baboons
1 reckless reveler
1 steal enchantment
I know conscripts hits everything, but I can't reliably sac non-creatures like I can creatures. Also 22 removal spells. Heh. Things go boom.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
to make it dethrone 2
It does, but as 2 separate triggers. For the most part that's better for us because someone can't use a single stifle to stop it. (Like if they had Smite and would want to avoid it coming back.)
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Siege-Gang Commander is joining my list as best finishers along with Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Magmasaur, River Kelpie, Flayer of the Hatebound.
I believe it, the +1/+1 counter route does look "clunky". I've got one coming (The Black Rose), my strategy is more straight forward, use her as an early commander to get a few hits in, backed up with a handful of ETBF creatures (not tons), control them out midgame then crush them with backbreaking spells late game. The deck was already built this way, just wanted a cheap Grixis commander (Jeleva is to goofy, Mishra to combo, lord of tresserhorn...gak! & Tetsuo way to much $$ for a 3/3, everything else seems to expensive, was using Crosis but he is less than subtle). Her abilities to me are just gravy next to her casting cost.
The rest is largely up to the individual, but I've liked my ETB/aggro oriented list so far. ^.^
Edit: Spelling is hard.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I'm not 100% comfortable with it yet, but I'll see how it plays tonight.
Opal Palace seems like an obvious choice with Marchesa.
Should be pretty easy to win with this deck. Jokulhaups, Obliterate, Devastation. Every Ponder in the game. 10-12 counterspells. Add mana cards. Every Elvish Visionary in these colors, then Gray Ogres. Bonus points for Gray Ogre himself. He will probably be 7/8 by the end of the game.
...get flamed. Lose friends irl. Wonder how you could build Marchesa some other way, then give up out of lack of interest. Go back to playing Xenagos Giants tribal.
Funny
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I think it's that in the Conspiracy set she was the only tri-color general, and in Grixis to boot. Plus, her abilities create many potential builds different from the typical Grixis shell.
Plus, she's the Black Rose.
Dethrone is a fun mechanic, and her second (third?) ability opens of some interesting strategies, which is what I think hooked most people. She's been pretty fun so far.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Sakashima The Impostor
Double dethrone on all your guys is filthy
Also few things noted, lots of instant speed sac outlets are a must, living death/archaeomancer loops are incredibly strong, haste enablers make the deck way more consistent, and it's not uncommon for sneak attack to end the game on the spot.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
I don't run Archaeomancer in my version, because it doesn't run a lot of instants and sorceries, and most of them that are there are for redundancy purposes (extra sac outlets and card draw, things like that). I might have to try it though, just because of the loop potential. Sneak Attack is pretty brutal, especially when you use it to dump a bunch of tramplers, Dack's Duplicate and Necropollis Regent into play.
So far, Decree of Pain has been the single most devastating card in my Marchesa deck. It's effectively been "wrath everyone else and draw 12+ cards" every time I've played it in the deck. I've also gotten tons of value out of Deathbringer Thoctar.