I know that you need to have answers. I play them. I know it's not the most unfair thing that can be done. My complaint is primarily due to the sheer frequency of which that seems to happen. I have literally never played against any Kaalia player who hasn't done that every game. I understand there are ways to deal with it; it's just annoying to see it happen so many times. The last time I played against a pilot of that deck, I killed Kaalia 2 times in a row, and was prepared to do so a third, but you could practically feel the disappointment waving off from the guy, so I let him swing with it once, and of course, Avacyn. >.<
If these players seem to be launching Avacyn fairly repeatedly, either these players have an amazing amount of luck or their decks are stacked or not shuffled from previous games. It doesn't sound like these players are tutoring for Avacyn, so it is very lucky for them to have it in their opening hand.
I've only had Avacyn once in my opening hand, and I have never needed to tutor for it. On the other hand, I've had Avacyn taken out of my library via Bribery, Jester's Cap, and Sadistic Sacrament.
@mouth of gix
Nice, so not only was Iona in play, but so was Mirror Gallery, and they played Rite the following turn in some sort of non-Kaalia U/W/X deck, which of course no one could respond to with any disenchant or removal.
Honestly, your story might as well have been "the worst is when they cast Door to Nothingness and you can't respond in 2 turns" no offense.
That's my thinking as well. Perhaps he's a bit inexperienced to handle such a deck.
@mouth of gix
Nice, so not only was Iona in play, but so was Mirror Gallery, and they played Rite the following turn in some sort of non-Kaalia U/W/X deck, which of course no one could respond to with any disenchant or removal.
Honestly, your story might as well have been "the worst is when they cast Door to Nothingness and you can't respond in 2 turns" no offense.
to clarify what i thought was obvious at the time of my post: this was a multiplayer game with 4 players. the person with the mirror gallery was not the same person who had rite of replication and it was also not the kaalia player. i apologize if my story wasn't epic/believable/competitive enough for you, the definitive kaalia primer writer, or anyone else on these boards. i guess some people don't enjoy hearing about interactions like that. to each their own.
TLDR; the point was that it sucks when you can't cast spells when iona is in play. i don't think iona is a very fun card and i would even go so far as to say they could ban it (not because of kaalia), but thats a topic for another thread.
on topic:
the best kaalia targets are the ones that do something as soon as they get to attack. not an etb trigger necessarily, but i've seen balefire dragon be pretty brutal. people have also mentioned master of cruelties. lord of the void is also pretty sick. all of these tend to do more work than an avacyn since they get value immediately. avacyn needs to protect your things before she becomes more than an 8/8 indestructible flyer.
TLDR; the point was that it sucks when you can't cast spells when iona is in play. i don't think iona is a very fun card and i would even go so far as to say they could ban it (not because of kaalia), but thats a topic for another thread.
What we're saying is that the Iona and Mirror aren't what's causing you to "not be able to have fun". There's lots of things that can do that, and it is unfair to blame the big angel specifically for that.
I play a kaalia deck and don't often see Avacyn although when I do I hardly think her game breaking. I don't play with master as I feel he is just unfair, but I do play with lots of ramp and mana fixing so when Kaalia goes away I still run strong. To be honest many people react to the deck because they think it is often the threat, while someone else is about to combo off. Really it's just a efficient aggro deck.
TLDR; the point was that it sucks when you can't cast spells when iona is in play. i don't think iona is a very fun card and i would even go so far as to say they could ban it (not because of kaalia), but thats a topic for another thread.
What we're saying is that the Iona and Mirror aren't what's causing you to "not be able to have fun". There's lots of things that can do that, and it is unfair to blame the big angel specifically for that.
i am not saying iona is the only unfun thing in magic, we both know that isn't true. i'm saying when i'm playing mono black and there is an iona naming black, i think i know exactly which card is causing me not to have fun. furthermore, i know that it is impossible to be having fun at all times during an EDH game, and i'm fine with that. the tides change and sometimes the board is heavily tilted in one player's favor. thats the way the world works.
no, i don't think that is the iona players fault in any of your hypotheticals. the difference is that people can cast spells after each of your examples. i would be completely fine with having five of my lands destroyed by an acidic slime (arguably the most threatening card you listed) over having virtually no lands by way of an iona shutting off my spells.
however, i think there is something to be said for haphazardly playing a huge threat and not expecting others (particularly people whose habits you already know) to take advantage of it when you are tapped out/can't defend it. let me give an example. player A casts a great whale in order to untap their lands and play more creatures. they pass to player B, who is notorious for using rites in their deck. player B simply untaps, kicks a rite targeting the great whale, floats ~45 mana, and exsanguinates the table, killing everyone.
i suppose it's a matter of opinion, but i would completely blame player A for enabling player B to kill the whole table. player B would not have been able to do anything like that without player A carelessly sticking an abusive creature on the board with no disruption to back it up. can you see the similarities between this and my earlier story? essentially the same thing happened, the rites player killed everyone because someone else wasn't being careful enough.
however, the most important lesson here is that EDH has high variance so these types of things shouldn't happen all that often (despite what the OP says). i am fine with getting my spells shut off from time to time, having my lands 'geddoned, skipping my untap steps from stasis or yosei, etc. if it isn't happening every single game, then whatever.
Kaalia sneaking in Rakdos the Defiler is a dickish move IMO. In a multiplayer game, it's almost akin to removing a person's arms and legs and leaving him to breathe.
It should only be reserved for dealing with dickish players, but otherwise please don't include it.
Kaalia sneaking in Rakdos the Defiler is a dickish move IMO. In a multiplayer game, it's almost akin to removing a person's arms and legs and leaving him to breathe.
It should only be reserved for dealing with dickish players, but otherwise please don't include it.
I'm perfectly content "Rakdosing" the (R/G) Wort deck who vomited forty percent of their lands and other assorted permanents onto the battlefield thank you very much.
Man. This makes me wish I could play Balance so much.
I'm perfectly content "Rakdosing" the (R/G) Wort deck who vomited forty percent of their lands and other assorted permanents onto the battlefield thank you very much.
Rakdos is the one of Kaalia's best answers for a player with an incredibly large board presence.
So I have a Kaalia deck and yeah what really makes people mad is when i sol ring, signet, then Kaalia swing with master of cruelties.
But what makes more people mad in my playgroup are the mimeoplasm players that make it a copy of Gaea's Revenge then there really isn't anything you can do about it.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I know that you need to have answers. I play them. I know it's not the most unfair thing that can be done. My complaint is primarily due to the sheer frequency of which that seems to happen. I have literally never played against any Kaalia player who hasn't done that every game. I understand there are ways to deal with it; it's just annoying to see it happen so many times. The last time I played against a pilot of that deck, I killed Kaalia 2 times in a row, and was prepared to do so a third, but you could practically feel the disappointment waving off from the guy, so I let him swing with it once, and of course, Avacyn. >.<
I'm sorry but at that point he paid 8 mana to cast kaalia
Avacyn costs 8 mana
I'm kinda wondering why he didn't just cast avacyn at that point.
I was playing Azami with lots of untapped blue mana. Probably didn't want it countered would be my guess.
You're playing Azami and *****ing about a non-U deck. Just stop trolling already. Unless that player is running Boil to spite you, you have no room to talk. You play broken ridiculous mono-U, you deserve anything and everything that you got coming to you. You don't like Kaalia's trigger going off? Then don't let it attack. You let him attack with it, you have only yourself to blame. Don't blame the card, blame yourself.
I could have in that particular instance. Yes, my deck is powerful.
Then why didn't you? Sounds like less a case of "this Kaalia deck..." and more a case of a misplay causing you a board state you didn't desire. Into the Roil or Order of Succession it. Or bait him into attacking then respond to the trigger with Vendilion Clique (which, surprise, is also a Wizard). Now he's committed to the attack, you pulled his best (or only?) target, and you traded Clique for Kaalia, after tapping it to draw a card.
Like I said, you have no right *****ing about this situation because you aren't even playing as optimally as you could be with the deck. Practice more and learn the nuances and stop complaining because someone besides you is doing cool things!
I thought it always happened, why are you complaining about frequency? Oh yea because you are using hyperbole to cry, and when you are playing monoblue..
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I could have in that particular instance. Yes, my deck is powerful.
Then why didn't you? Sounds like less a case of "this Kaalia deck..." and more a case of a misplay causing you a board state you didn't desire. Into the Roil or Order of Succession it. Or bait him into attacking then respond to the trigger with Vendilion Clique (which, surprise, is also a Wizard). Now he's committed to the attack, you pulled his best (or only?) target, and you traded Clique for Kaalia, after tapping it to draw a card.
Like I said, you have no right *****ing about this situation because you aren't even playing as optimally as you could be with the deck. Practice more and learn the nuances and stop complaining because someone besides you is doing cool things!
Ok, #1, I already mentioned this but that person was having a rough time and definitely not having fun at that point because we kept answering him every turn. Commander isn't fun when you get ganged up on and don't get to do anything, and I refuse to play purely to make it a miserable experience for people, especially in a multiplayer game. It's a social game and everyone should get to at least participate somewhat. That's what the spirit of social multiplayer MtG is; I have to believe that given the comments I've seen here that I would never want to play against many of the people here for fun (which is the only reason I play Commander). #2, I don't always play that deck. That one time I happened to be doing so. In fact, I always have at least 5-6 decks on hand (often because I loan them out) and try to play one a different one every session. #3, I know how to play the game competitively and I know what answers are, I have the benefit of a large collection and I play lots of good cards (as well as some stupid silly ones like Bludgeon Brawl). #4, The only thing I have a problem with is the ridiculous percentage of seeing Kallia throwing Avacyn in. I don't care about the power level of that; it's that it's happened so unbelievably often that you'd think these people would have to be cheating but I know they aren't because I watch them shuffle. Clearly no one has ever had that experience and can even understand what that's like and how annoying it is. I regret ever even posting this topic simply because my experience has been so terribly skewed that everyone immediately assumes it must be hyperbole (which I swear on my Lotus it is not).
I can say that today was the first time I've ever played against that deck and not seen Avacyn pop out, which I found out was because that particular player had traded it into the card shop earlier (go figure). So sort of better I guess?
Looks like it is more of a problem with a person in your playgroup rather than a particular deck like Kaalia. People took an issue when you blamed the deck.
And judging by what he did(trading Avacyn), I think I can say that he wasn't being dickish
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
- H. L. Mencken
#1. No, none of us know what it's like to have Kaalia bring out Avacyn on the first turn of every single game. If your friend was drawing Avacyn in his opening hand every single time, he should go to Vegas. The odds of that are pretty damn high. I don't know why you expected everyone here to say 'Yeah, man, that happens to me all the time and it sucks! Ban Avacyn!!!'. Hell, if I saw that happen, my friends and I would be laughing about it. It'd be something we'd joke about for years.
#2. When someone drops an Avacyn, most people will respond with a Swords to Plowshares, a Path to Exile, a Tragic Slip, Karn, Merciless Eviction, Curse of the Swine, Oblivion Ring, Sudden Spoiling, Turn to Frog, or who knows how many other exile, tuck, transform, or negative counter cards there are in the game instead of coming to a forum and whining about it. Avacyn is a good card and all, but she's not THAT hard to get rid of. Like I said in another post, my friends hardly even play her anymore because she is gotten rid of so quickly that it's usually not even worth cheating her into play.
#3. There's worse things to get hit with than Avacyn. Master of Cruelties with Kaalia straight up kills you. Lord of the Void has been mentioned. There's a lot of creatures I'd rather not see before Avacyn. Hell, I'd rather see Avacyn come down than Utvara Hellkite (and I've seen Kaalia drop a Utvara Hellkite and it's scary).
#2. When someone drops an Avacyn, most people will respond with a Swords to Plowshares, a Path to Exile, a Tragic Slip, Karn, Merciless Eviction, Curse of the Swine, Oblivion Ring, Sudden Spoiling, Turn to Frog, or who knows how many other exile, tuck, transform, or negative counter cards there are in the game instead of coming to a forum and whining about it. Avacyn is a good card and all, but she's not THAT hard to get rid of. Like I said in another post, my friends hardly even play her anymore because she is gotten rid of so quickly that it's usually not even worth cheating her into play.
Bingo. Avacyn doesn't even make the cut 1v1 for the Primer (she is too defensive). Maaaayyybbeeeeee multiplayer, but she's just "another critter" so I still wouldn't call her obligatory there either.
The other thing about Avacyn is that while she doesn't do a lot for a Kaalia deck, she makes a PRIME target for thievery if in the deck around the table from other people who can use her much more dastardly.
Also there are ways to spin a Turn 3 or 4 Avacyn into deadly stuff I mean Armageddon the turn after is a pretty aggressive way to play her in Kaalia
She has always felt like a high risk, low reward kind of card to me. I love her, and I have and do actively run her when I'm using white, but there are risks involved when you throw her out there. She can be stolen, which robs you of what you gained from her and helps someone else, and she can be cloned which gives both you and someone else all of her benefit. Her impact is more or less passive, and it can impact the board but I don't see her as something I'd gun for right off the bat unless I needed to protect my things, and aside from my lands early game I probably don't spend too much time worrying about giving my things indestructibility.
as a kaalia player (she was my first EDH deck, straight from the box!), i think i have to say that i've pulled off a avacyn at first swing, but i still lost that game. its not that avacyn is a huge insta-win dude, but more a 'ah wells, that was a quarter of my life, but whatevs.
i think the others here have already mentioned the other scarier demons and whatnot, and it gets boring (for the kaalia player) quick.
thats why i went the mostly dragons route. they're pure bad-ass, more risk but at least they have an anthem (unless if im missing something, i dont think angels or demons have an anthem effect).
i did however manage to do a soft-lock with catastrophe, nevinyrrals disk with avacyn in play once. so we just all scooped and reshuffled.
finally, check his shuffling. had a mate once who never ended up shuffling the top card of his deck (not sure if it was on purpose or not), so his first turn ALWAYS ended up being city of brass, mox diamond, crystalline sliver.
as a kaalia player (she was my first EDH deck, straight from the box!), i think i have to say that i've pulled off a avacyn at first swing, but i still lost that game. its not that avacyn is a huge insta-win dude, but more a 'ah wells, that was a quarter of my life, but whatevs.
i think the others here have already mentioned the other scarier demons and whatnot, and it gets boring (for the kaalia player) quick.
thats why i went the mostly dragons route. they're pure bad-ass, more risk but at least they have an anthem (unless if im missing something, i dont think angels or demons have an anthem effect).
i did however manage to do a soft-lock with catastrophe, nevinyrrals disk with avacyn in play once. so we just all scooped and reshuffled.
finally, check his shuffling. had a mate once who never ended up shuffling the top card of his deck (not sure if it was on purpose or not), so his first turn ALWAYS ended up being city of brass, mox diamond, crystalline sliver.
finally, check his shuffling. had a mate once who never ended up shuffling the top card of his deck (not sure if it was on purpose or not), so his first turn ALWAYS ended up being city of brass, mox diamond, crystalline sliver.
This can be super relevant with some players who don't like to lose, or who like to have very specific games. I had a buddy that, when I would go over to his place to play, would have his first hand always drawn and sitting on the table like he was ready to go, and like clockwork if I didn't make him shuffle up in front of me and let me cut the deck he would get the same cards that game. Some people just can't stand losing, or, and I hate accusing anyone one of this, but some people just straight up cheat. Cheating poorly is still cheating.
If these players seem to be launching Avacyn fairly repeatedly, either these players have an amazing amount of luck or their decks are stacked or not shuffled from previous games. It doesn't sound like these players are tutoring for Avacyn, so it is very lucky for them to have it in their opening hand.
I've only had Avacyn once in my opening hand, and I have never needed to tutor for it. On the other hand, I've had Avacyn taken out of my library via Bribery, Jester's Cap, and Sadistic Sacrament.
That's my thinking as well. Perhaps he's a bit inexperienced to handle such a deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
to clarify what i thought was obvious at the time of my post: this was a multiplayer game with 4 players. the person with the mirror gallery was not the same person who had rite of replication and it was also not the kaalia player. i apologize if my story wasn't epic/believable/competitive enough for you, the definitive kaalia primer writer, or anyone else on these boards. i guess some people don't enjoy hearing about interactions like that. to each their own.
TLDR; the point was that it sucks when you can't cast spells when iona is in play. i don't think iona is a very fun card and i would even go so far as to say they could ban it (not because of kaalia), but thats a topic for another thread.
on topic:
the best kaalia targets are the ones that do something as soon as they get to attack. not an etb trigger necessarily, but i've seen balefire dragon be pretty brutal. people have also mentioned master of cruelties. lord of the void is also pretty sick. all of these tend to do more work than an avacyn since they get value immediately. avacyn needs to protect your things before she becomes more than an 8/8 indestructible flyer.
What we're saying is that the Iona and Mirror aren't what's causing you to "not be able to have fun". There's lots of things that can do that, and it is unfair to blame the big angel specifically for that.
Consider; in that same situation, is it Iona's fault if the player kicks said Rite on an Acidic Slime instead? What about a Sun Titan? Sepulchral Primordial? Solemn Simulacrum? What if that person plays City of Solitude? Is that "unfun" because you can't cast spells when you want?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
i am not saying iona is the only unfun thing in magic, we both know that isn't true. i'm saying when i'm playing mono black and there is an iona naming black, i think i know exactly which card is causing me not to have fun. furthermore, i know that it is impossible to be having fun at all times during an EDH game, and i'm fine with that. the tides change and sometimes the board is heavily tilted in one player's favor. thats the way the world works.
no, i don't think that is the iona players fault in any of your hypotheticals. the difference is that people can cast spells after each of your examples. i would be completely fine with having five of my lands destroyed by an acidic slime (arguably the most threatening card you listed) over having virtually no lands by way of an iona shutting off my spells.
however, i think there is something to be said for haphazardly playing a huge threat and not expecting others (particularly people whose habits you already know) to take advantage of it when you are tapped out/can't defend it. let me give an example. player A casts a great whale in order to untap their lands and play more creatures. they pass to player B, who is notorious for using rites in their deck. player B simply untaps, kicks a rite targeting the great whale, floats ~45 mana, and exsanguinates the table, killing everyone.
i suppose it's a matter of opinion, but i would completely blame player A for enabling player B to kill the whole table. player B would not have been able to do anything like that without player A carelessly sticking an abusive creature on the board with no disruption to back it up. can you see the similarities between this and my earlier story? essentially the same thing happened, the rites player killed everyone because someone else wasn't being careful enough.
however, the most important lesson here is that EDH has high variance so these types of things shouldn't happen all that often (despite what the OP says). i am fine with getting my spells shut off from time to time, having my lands 'geddoned, skipping my untap steps from stasis or yosei, etc. if it isn't happening every single game, then whatever.
It should only be reserved for dealing with dickish players, but otherwise please don't include it.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
As an unabashed Kaalia fanboy, Bolas, I will simply reply with:
"Anything that is not prohibited is allowed."
I.e., is she or Rakdos? No? Game on.
And no, I don't get to play my Kaalia deck much.
I'm perfectly content "Rakdosing" the (R/G) Wort deck who vomited forty percent of their lands and other assorted permanents onto the battlefield thank you very much.
Man. This makes me wish I could play Balance so much.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Rakdos is the one of Kaalia's best answers for a player with an incredibly large board presence.
Well, there is always Cataclysm.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
But what makes more people mad in my playgroup are the mimeoplasm players that make it a copy of Gaea's Revenge then there really isn't anything you can do about it.
You're playing Azami and *****ing about a non-U deck. Just stop trolling already. Unless that player is running Boil to spite you, you have no room to talk. You play broken ridiculous mono-U, you deserve anything and everything that you got coming to you. You don't like Kaalia's trigger going off? Then don't let it attack. You let him attack with it, you have only yourself to blame. Don't blame the card, blame yourself.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also, 3drinks is right. An azami player complaining about someone else? Stop what they do.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
Then why didn't you? Sounds like less a case of "this Kaalia deck..." and more a case of a misplay causing you a board state you didn't desire. Into the Roil or Order of Succession it. Or bait him into attacking then respond to the trigger with Vendilion Clique (which, surprise, is also a Wizard). Now he's committed to the attack, you pulled his best (or only?) target, and you traded Clique for Kaalia, after tapping it to draw a card.
Like I said, you have no right *****ing about this situation because you aren't even playing as optimally as you could be with the deck. Practice more and learn the nuances and stop complaining because someone besides you is doing cool things!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Looks like it is more of a problem with a person in your playgroup rather than a particular deck like Kaalia. People took an issue when you blamed the deck.
And judging by what he did(trading Avacyn), I think I can say that he wasn't being dickish
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
#2. When someone drops an Avacyn, most people will respond with a Swords to Plowshares, a Path to Exile, a Tragic Slip, Karn, Merciless Eviction, Curse of the Swine, Oblivion Ring, Sudden Spoiling, Turn to Frog, or who knows how many other exile, tuck, transform, or negative counter cards there are in the game instead of coming to a forum and whining about it. Avacyn is a good card and all, but she's not THAT hard to get rid of. Like I said in another post, my friends hardly even play her anymore because she is gotten rid of so quickly that it's usually not even worth cheating her into play.
#3. There's worse things to get hit with than Avacyn. Master of Cruelties with Kaalia straight up kills you. Lord of the Void has been mentioned. There's a lot of creatures I'd rather not see before Avacyn. Hell, I'd rather see Avacyn come down than Utvara Hellkite (and I've seen Kaalia drop a Utvara Hellkite and it's scary).
Bingo. Avacyn doesn't even make the cut 1v1 for the Primer (she is too defensive). Maaaayyybbeeeeee multiplayer, but she's just "another critter" so I still wouldn't call her obligatory there either.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also there are ways to spin a Turn 3 or 4 Avacyn into deadly stuff I mean Armageddon the turn after is a pretty aggressive way to play her in Kaalia
i think the others here have already mentioned the other scarier demons and whatnot, and it gets boring (for the kaalia player) quick.
thats why i went the mostly dragons route. they're pure bad-ass, more risk but at least they have an anthem (unless if im missing something, i dont think angels or demons have an anthem effect).
i did however manage to do a soft-lock with catastrophe, nevinyrrals disk with avacyn in play once. so we just all scooped and reshuffled.
finally, check his shuffling. had a mate once who never ended up shuffling the top card of his deck (not sure if it was on purpose or not), so his first turn ALWAYS ended up being city of brass, mox diamond, crystalline sliver.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Disk + Avacyn. ha. i c wut did thar.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
This can be super relevant with some players who don't like to lose, or who like to have very specific games. I had a buddy that, when I would go over to his place to play, would have his first hand always drawn and sitting on the table like he was ready to go, and like clockwork if I didn't make him shuffle up in front of me and let me cut the deck he would get the same cards that game. Some people just can't stand losing, or, and I hate accusing anyone one of this, but some people just straight up cheat. Cheating poorly is still cheating.