Is either one clearly better than the other, or is it mostly situational...or should I just forget them both and use something else like harmonize?
I just picked up a soul's majesty in some random thing recently and haven't tried it yet. I have used Harmonize and hunter's prowess before...the prowess was handy when i had a creature with some sort of evasion. The new deck I'm building has more bigger ground threats, not so much evasion and even with the trample, I think I'd probably get more cards from the soul's majesty. Suggestions?
I agree with this. The thing with all of these cards mentioned is that they don't fold to removal in the same way that Soul's Majesty and Hunter's Prowess do. Greater Good and Momentous Fall require a sacrifice as part of the cost, so obviously they can't kill your creature in response, and Hunter's Insight is instant speed which helps avoid playing it into removal / blockers. Garruk doesn't even have to choose a particular creature, so as long as you have multiple decently sized creature, he's going to draw you some cards.
I would also say that Harmonize is a very underrated card and is honestly a fine choice. I would say it's almost definitely better than either Soul's Majesty or Hunter's Prowess.
I'm constructing a mono-green deck right now and I find myself running both of them, as well as Garruk and Harmonize. I'm trying to find other draw cards too, since I still find myself emptying my hands too quickly. I just added Gilt-Leaf Druid that can provide some nice draw from the dozen or so druids I'm running.
Hunter's Prowess seems better in a voltron-style deck like Rafiq. Both cards entail the risk of an opponent removing your creature while the spell is on the stack.
How is Hunter's Insight better against removal than Soul's Majesty? Insight gets blown out by Fog effects in addition to removal, so if anything it's worse unless your opponenet is stupid and plays their instant-speed removal prior to blocks being declared. I've never tried out either of the cards mentioned by the OP, but I'd be willing to give either a shot in a removal-light meta. Hunter's Prowess seems better for a deck wanting to win with Commander damage, but I think I'd prefer Soul's Majesty in general.
Without more background information, I would have to say that Soul's Majesty is the stronger card. I recently got Hunter's Prowess in my Thrun, the Last Troll deck though and the importance of pump effects, trample, and card draw are all very big selling points for me so in the right situation, I think that Prowess can be stronger but I would say that 90+% of the time Soul's Majesty is just going to do more for more decks.
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It depends on how much Control and just spot removal in general is played and by whom, but that's just as to whether to play either of them over a card like Harmonize. On which is better of Soul's Majesty and Hunter's Prowess, it is usually going to be Prowess by at least 3 cards. If your deck doesn't like attacking, you don't play either, and likewise spot removal will blank both. Prowess is worse than Majesty only in that .01% of the time where there's a Fog a Condemn, or everyone at the table has a giant blocker.
For me, I've cut Majesty from every deck I've ever run it in, but I play Prowess in a lot of places where the +3 and Trample is worth something on its own. It's always done good things for me in public games.
On which is better of Soul's Majesty and Hunter's Prowess, it is usually going to be Prowess by at least 3 cards.
How is it at LEAST 3 cards? Seems like you should have said, at MOST 3 cards. Something as simple as an untapped Kraken Hatchling on your opponent's side means less cards from the Prowess.
Well, real context versus perceived context. I guess the perceived context is that I'm casting this on Grizzly Bears, and then the opponent loves to chump block a Trample creature with Kraken Hatchling, because they love playing bad, blocking-only creatures to deny my Prowess some cards.
Real context is that at worst I'm casting this on a vanilla groundling, and maybe a few people have Bitterblossom tokens or something like that out. But certainly, not every player at the table has a creature that they're willing to throw underneath a trampler for purposes of denying me cards equal to its toughness. And most likely is that if I'm playing this card, I'm in a creature-heavy Green deck with multipliers, such a Rafiq, some other Voltron with double-strike enablers, Aggravated Assaults, and so on. Which give you more cards.
So maybe .1% of the time it's less than 3 cards better than Majesty due to blocking, .01% of the time worse due to Fog or Condemn, 5-10% or so of the time with them both getting blanked, 15-20% of the time more than 3 cards better due to multipliers, then during the majority of the time it's exactly 3 cards better.
It depends on how much Control and just spot removal in general is played and by whom, but that's just as to whether to play either of them over a card like Harmonize. On which is better of Soul's Majesty and Hunter's Prowess, it is usually going to be Prowess by at least 3 cards. If your deck doesn't like attacking, you don't play either, and likewise spot removal will blank both. Prowess is worse than Majesty only in that .01% of the time where there's a Fog a Condemn, or everyone at the table has a giant blocker.
For me, I've cut Majesty from every deck I've ever run it in, but I play Prowess in a lot of places where the +3 and Trample is worth something on its own. It's always done good things for me in public games.
It is also relevant to ask how often you see Maze effects I suppose when considering Prowess as well. Its interesting to hear of good results with it though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Well, real context versus perceived context. I guess the perceived context is that I'm casting this on Grizzly Bears, and then the opponent loves to chump block a Trample creature with Kraken Hatchling, because they love playing bad, blocking-only creatures to deny my Prowess some cards.
Real context is that at worst I'm casting this on a vanilla groundling, and maybe a few people have Bitterblossom tokens or something like that out. But certainly, not every player at the table has a creature that they're willing to throw underneath a trampler for purposes of denying me cards equal to its toughness. And most likely is that if I'm playing this card, I'm in a creature-heavy Green deck with multipliers, such a Rafiq, some other Voltron with double-strike enablers, Aggravated Assaults, and so on. Which give you more cards.
So maybe .1% of the time it's less than 3 cards better than Majesty due to blocking, .01% of the time worse due to Fog or Condemn, 5-10% or so of the time with them both getting blanked, 15-20% of the time more than 3 cards better due to multipliers, then during the majority of the time it's exactly 3 cards better.
Fair enough. My original thought was that any pump effects would help out Soul's Majesty as much as Hunter's Prowess, but I didn't take into account double strike and extra combat steps. I still think Soul's Majesty is going to be better in a lot of metas; the games I play often end up with fatty creature stalls, and I'd gladly throw one of my dudes under the bus to deny my opponent 4+ cards. I certainly wasn't suggesting that anyone is actually playing Kraken Hatchling in EDH, it was just the most extreme example I could think up of a crappy creature foiling your plans.
Got it. I just see a lot of the time with creatures like Oracle of Mul Daya, no one attacks the Oracle player for fear of a chump, when in reality there is no way Oracle is chumping. I do think that the card would be bad without Trample, though. With it, I haven't seen many chumps on my dudes. After all, this is a format where people don't pay 1 for Rhystic Study because Honey Badger don't care.
Also, Maze of Ith is a format ruining card. Interacts badly within the rules of the format, commander damage and all. Boo.
Garruk, Primal Hunter is still an option, since it isn't exactly countered if your opponent kills one of your dudes; you just get the next weakest one. Be aware you probably shouldn't play it if you have another Garruk out, though, and Garruk Wildspeaker says "land", not "forest", not "basic land", but "land". And Garruk, Caller of Beasts ranges from "potential draw five every turn" (blue helps) to "cast Memnite, get free fatty" if you can do the -7.
Now, of course, Harmonize is underrated just because it's not situational, unlike the rest of these. (And of course, if you have it, Sylvan Library should be standard in every green deck you play.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Also, Maze of Ith is a format ruining card. Interacts badly within the rules of the format, commander damage and all. Boo.
There is one guy in my meta who plays an Oloro deck that runs all three mazes that he can: Maze of Ith, Mystifying Maze, and Kor Haven. His deck as a whole is like all answers and then he hopes to just kill off the stragglers with Debt to the Deathless and a few other drain effects.... Most people just sort of concede to his card advantage 2 hours in. I remember like a 4 hour game the other day where I finally killed him with mostly small pokes from derevi. At the end of the game though, I had to loop Derevi into play at his end of turn to tap down his mazes so I could poke him for commander damage...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Hunter's Prowess
Is either one clearly better than the other, or is it mostly situational...or should I just forget them both and use something else like harmonize?
I just picked up a soul's majesty in some random thing recently and haven't tried it yet. I have used Harmonize and hunter's prowess before...the prowess was handy when i had a creature with some sort of evasion. The new deck I'm building has more bigger ground threats, not so much evasion and even with the trample, I think I'd probably get more cards from the soul's majesty. Suggestions?
I agree with this. The thing with all of these cards mentioned is that they don't fold to removal in the same way that Soul's Majesty and Hunter's Prowess do. Greater Good and Momentous Fall require a sacrifice as part of the cost, so obviously they can't kill your creature in response, and Hunter's Insight is instant speed which helps avoid playing it into removal / blockers. Garruk doesn't even have to choose a particular creature, so as long as you have multiple decently sized creature, he's going to draw you some cards.
I would also say that Harmonize is a very underrated card and is honestly a fine choice. I would say it's almost definitely better than either Soul's Majesty or Hunter's Prowess.
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For me, I've cut Majesty from every deck I've ever run it in, but I play Prowess in a lot of places where the +3 and Trample is worth something on its own. It's always done good things for me in public games.
How is it at LEAST 3 cards? Seems like you should have said, at MOST 3 cards. Something as simple as an untapped Kraken Hatchling on your opponent's side means less cards from the Prowess.
Real context is that at worst I'm casting this on a vanilla groundling, and maybe a few people have Bitterblossom tokens or something like that out. But certainly, not every player at the table has a creature that they're willing to throw underneath a trampler for purposes of denying me cards equal to its toughness. And most likely is that if I'm playing this card, I'm in a creature-heavy Green deck with multipliers, such a Rafiq, some other Voltron with double-strike enablers, Aggravated Assaults, and so on. Which give you more cards.
So maybe .1% of the time it's less than 3 cards better than Majesty due to blocking, .01% of the time worse due to Fog or Condemn, 5-10% or so of the time with them both getting blanked, 15-20% of the time more than 3 cards better due to multipliers, then during the majority of the time it's exactly 3 cards better.
It is also relevant to ask how often you see Maze effects I suppose when considering Prowess as well. Its interesting to hear of good results with it though.
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Fair enough. My original thought was that any pump effects would help out Soul's Majesty as much as Hunter's Prowess, but I didn't take into account double strike and extra combat steps. I still think Soul's Majesty is going to be better in a lot of metas; the games I play often end up with fatty creature stalls, and I'd gladly throw one of my dudes under the bus to deny my opponent 4+ cards. I certainly wasn't suggesting that anyone is actually playing Kraken Hatchling in EDH, it was just the most extreme example I could think up of a crappy creature foiling your plans.
Also, Maze of Ith is a format ruining card. Interacts badly within the rules of the format, commander damage and all. Boo.
Garruk, Primal Hunter is still an option, since it isn't exactly countered if your opponent kills one of your dudes; you just get the next weakest one. Be aware you probably shouldn't play it if you have another Garruk out, though, and Garruk Wildspeaker says "land", not "forest", not "basic land", but "land". And Garruk, Caller of Beasts ranges from "potential draw five every turn" (blue helps) to "cast Memnite, get free fatty" if you can do the -7.
There's also Prime Speaker Zegana if you're also running blue.
Now, of course, Harmonize is underrated just because it's not situational, unlike the rest of these. (And of course, if you have it, Sylvan Library should be standard in every green deck you play.)
On phasing:
There is one guy in my meta who plays an Oloro deck that runs all three mazes that he can: Maze of Ith, Mystifying Maze, and Kor Haven. His deck as a whole is like all answers and then he hopes to just kill off the stragglers with Debt to the Deathless and a few other drain effects.... Most people just sort of concede to his card advantage 2 hours in. I remember like a 4 hour game the other day where I finally killed him with mostly small pokes from derevi. At the end of the game though, I had to loop Derevi into play at his end of turn to tap down his mazes so I could poke him for commander damage...
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