So, it looks like you and your group have 2 real options:
1: Bring your "A" game. Bring decks that can win 1-on-1, play them ruthlessly and relentlessly. You might have less fun than playing semi-casual (or you might be surprised and really enjoy a highly competitive environment once a month. It can be fun to play at your absolute best, and know your opponents are all doing the same.)
2: Stop playing at the LGS with this player. If your group isn't having fun, isn't enjoying the tournament, and doesn't want to play seriously competitive, then you shouldn't be paying to play in that tournament. It sounds like it isn't what you're looking for from the game, and not all formats or venues are enjoyable for all players. Set up an EDH league, play at a friend's house, but ignore tournaments where you're going to face opponents who are playing to win when you're playing for the fun of it.
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Why not simply stop playing the LGS tournaments and set up one at somebody's place, number one you can instate house rules if you still wish to play duel commander or you can set up a league through your LGS as another suggested, both keep this person from abusing the meta ( one is the loneliest number lol) for prizes as well as allows there to be some structure in your group.
Also I would reccomend talking to your TO about switching over to multiplayer seeing as duel commander tends to be way more competitive, so if your LGS is more casual then I would highly reccomend this option as well as trying to set up a league.
You're missing the point that the aim of the people playing the tournament is not winning by all costs, but to have fun in their favorite way and type of playing.
Then perhaps tournament play is not for them, because the entire point of a tournament is to win. If you want to play casual games with your friends, you should ask your LGS if you can get together during some free time, or ask the LGS to install a league point system that encourages the type of play you like. What you shouldn't do is enter a 1v1 duel commander tournament and insist everyone "play nice" just because it says EDH on the tin. Duel CMDR is as competitive as any eternal constructed format, and to think otherwise is foolish. If that is not what you're looking for, don't enter. Don't simply get angry at somebody for playing by the rules with the strongest deck they could make.
You're missing the point that the aim of the people playing the tournament is not winning by all costs, but to have fun in their favorite way and type of playing.
Then perhaps tournament play is not for them, because the entire point of a tournament is to win. If you want to play casual games with your friends, you should ask your LGS if you can get together during some free time, or ask the LGS to install a league point system that encourages the type of play you like. What you shouldn't do is enter a 1v1 duel commander tournament and insist everyone "play nice" just because it says EDH on the tin. Duel CMDR is as competitive as any eternal constructed format, and to think otherwise is foolish. If that is not what you're looking for, don't enter. Don't simply get angry at somebody for playing by the rules with the strongest deck they could make.
I agree for some part, but let's get this out of the way it is not the pieces of cardboard that bother the OP and his LGS it is for the most part his attitude, of abusing a LGS's community for prize support is unhealthy for the game in any format. I would also like to state wishing to have fun=\=not wanting to win because if that were true the game would have no goal and no one could be mad at a certain playstyle.
Let's put it in light I play a BW Tokens deck for modern semi-competively it's obviously not too strong in the overall meta but it is strong in my local meta and I find no challenge in winning with that where as I would in some major tournament, instead of abusing my local meta by playing my $500-600 deck I play a little rogue death cloud deck that costs less then $100 not because " I don't want to win so I shouldn't play in tournament's" but because I want a challenge and they want a chance to win.
Oppressing a whole meta with a deck that they cannot beat due to whatever reason is not competitive it's toxic to the players and the store, and I don't support these actions in any format.
are proxies allowed? if so get as many people as you can to carbon copy the dudes deck and see how he likes it. Otherwise running cards that get rid of cards from deck like Extract or Praetor's Grasp is an option. Talking to the TO and either swapping the format to multiplayer (where emmy is banned and politics matter) or house banning emmy is probably your best bet.
Honestly, I find this to be disrespectful. How would you feel if your opponent sits down from you with a less-than-optimal deck because "you aren't good enough for the better deck"?
Oppressing a whole meta with a deck that they cannot beat due to whatever reason is not competitive it's toxic to the players and the store, and I don't support these actions in any format.
And whose fault is it that he's constantly winning? Because reading through this thread it seems like the most common tactic against this player isn't to try and beat him but instead to simply scoop. The fact of the matter is that this player has done nothing wrong. Nowhere does the OP indicate this player acts rudely or is otherwise disrespectful. Calling him toxic is nothing but a cop-out by the other players in the store who'd rather ban this player instead of trying to improve themselves and their decks to actually compete against him. If a single person is able to oppress a whole meta by simply using a competitive deck, the problem is the meta, not the player.
Honestly, I find this to be disrespectful. How would you feel if your opponent sits down from you with a less-than-optimal deck because "you aren't good enough for the better deck"?
fine? because the efficacy of a deck is not a personal statement. they're cards. they're not you. and skill frankly isn't nearly as important as the stack of cardboard rectangles in front of you.
Honestly, I find this to be disrespectful. How would you feel if your opponent sits down from you with a less-than-optimal deck because "you aren't good enough for the better deck"?
Let's put the facts down on the table a competitive deck is expensive and I realize that not everyone can drop $500-$1000+ on pieces of cardboard if anything I'm being respectful in my own way instead of steam rolling a LGS meta with more budget builds with my optimal seventy-five.
I play this game to challenge myself out of tight situations and close games and I get no enjoyment from easy wins, so I play my more casual non-optimal deck if others are playing non-optimal decks, this isn't chess or go where you are required to have the utmost skill %100 of the time and both players don't have the same pieces so this is how I try to even the playing field.
Oppressing a whole meta with a deck that they cannot beat due to whatever reason is not competitive it's toxic to the players and the store, and I don't support these actions in any format.
And whose fault is it that he's constantly winning? Because reading through this thread it seems like the most common tactic against this player isn't to try and beat him but instead to simply scoop. The fact of the matter is that this player has done nothing wrong. Nowhere does the OP indicate this player acts rudely or is otherwise disrespectful. Calling him toxic is nothing but a cop-out by the other players in the store who'd rather ban this player instead of trying to improve themselves and their decks to actually compete against him. If a single person is able to oppress a whole meta by simply using a competitive deck, the problem is the meta, not the player.
Actually in his later posts he does give examples of some of the players actions and his general attitude is that he doesn't care about the rest of the players more prize support for me, regardless of what you believe for most people an LGS is a community and usually communities have a base power level and he's taking advantage of that and frankly that is inherently wrong.
If he wished to play at a high competitive level as well he wouldn't come back to a store with players who are less competitive he would find a new store or only play at events, which once again leads me back to the point that he's just taking advantage of players who don't wish to play that competitively.
I won't bother getting in a discussion about how small minded you are about local gaming in general seeing as they aren't a huge event like a GP, Or a PT you will most likely not find " BestDeckForFormat.dec" and if that's what the player is looking for he should start going to the named events and compete or the players with less optimal build will wish to become better and succeed but Baisically saying " the blame should be on the rest of the players " is a "cop-out" as well.
Saying "more prizes for me" after someone attempts to guilt you by scooping before even shuffling up is not disrespectful, at least not moreso than the fact the person scooped in the first place. The point is this player isn't verbally abusing others. Even if he is -- in which case go talk to the TO about it -- that's not related to his deck choice. He could be literally the nicest and most charismatic player you've even seen, but by simply playing a powerful deck he becomes "toxic" to the community according to some responses here.
Also, you make it sound as if PTQs are held right down the street from you every weekend, but unfortunately many players don't have that luxury. There's a good chance this store is the only one that is a reasonable distance for this player. Saying that he should drive hours each way or only play at large events is completely unreasonable when a LGS exists.
I don't know about you, but when I go to my LGS for a Standard or Modern tournament, I fully expect to see numerous top decks. Simply because you don't take FNM as seriously as a larger event doesn't mean everyone feels the same. Are you actually arguing that players should intentionally gimp themselves when building their decks for FNM for fear they might upset someone? Because that concept is honestly baffling to me. Where do you draw the line? Am I not allowed to play anything except bears and craw wurms because everything else is "too good"?
The fact of the matter is that a tournament is not a casual setting. The objective is to win every game and eventually the grand prize. If you want to play a homebrew or your pet tribal hydra deck, by all means go ahead, but expecting others to play down to your level is ridiculous and reeks of entitlement. If you knowingly play a sub par deck, that's a personal choice, and that means you accept the consequences, which in this case means taking your lumps like a trooper when a better deck comes along.
Saying "more prizes for me" after someone attempts to guilt you by scooping before even shuffling up is not disrespectful, at least not moreso than the fact the person scooped in the first place. The point is this player isn't verbally abusing others. Even if he is -- in which case go talk to the TO about it -- that's not related to his deck choice. He could be literally the nicest and most charismatic player you've even seen, but by simply playing a powerful deck he becomes "toxic" to the community according to some responses here.
Also, you make it sound as if PTQs are held right down the street from you every weekend, but unfortunately many players don't have that luxury. There's a good chance this store is the only one that is a reasonable distance for this player. Saying that he should drive hours each way or only play at large events is completely unreasonable when a LGS exists.
I don't know about you, but when I go to my LGS for a Standard or Modern tournament, I fully expect to see numerous top decks. Simply because you don't take FNM as seriously as a larger event doesn't mean everyone feels the same. Are you actually arguing that players should intentionally gimp themselves when building their decks for FNM for fear they might upset someone? Because that concept is honestly baffling to me. Where do you draw the line? Am I not allowed to play anything except bears and craw wurms because everything else is "too good"?
The fact of the matter is that a tournament is not a casual setting. The objective is to win every game and eventually the grand prize. If you want to play a homebrew or your pet tribal hydra deck, by all means go ahead, but expecting others to play down to your level is ridiculous and reeks of entitlement. If you knowingly play a sub par deck, that's a personal choice, and that means you accept the consequences, which in this case means taking your lumps like a trooper when a better deck comes along.
So let me get this straight by your reasoning it is unreasonable for someone who has obviously invested quite a bit of money on there respective format to go and challenge themselves on a higher stage but it is more reasonable to ask that every other member of my LGS spend the kind of cash I do on EDH/Modern/Legacy because that's the best deck and If your playing in a tournament you must be playing the best cards.
Yes PTQ's aren't held every weekend down the street but at least you would be receiving a competitive experience, as I have said before there is only one reason someone with a highly tuned deck would continue playing a tournament with sub-optimal decks and that would be for the obvious prize support and if that is the reason ( it's the only possible reason I could think of) then I don't support it, and that's my simple opinion about the situation in that regard.
Let's put this straight okay for the most part this game when it comes to just about every format is who has the biggest budget, the second most important thing is knowledge of the game lets compare this to chess, chess is %100 about knowledge of the game and mechanics and your skill and foresight at executing the game, magic on the other hand is making interactions between pieces of cardboard to win but simply put some pieces of cardboard are better then others so when I play at my LGS I compete against people on the closest power level I can because it's a more enjoyable experience. But if you enjoy rolling over people at your LGS with splinter twin while they have mono blue bears because they can't afford a better deck because let's say they're working a second job to pay for a family members medical costs then have fun.
This is a game and we are all people and all of us have different situations, regardless of who is right or wrong this is a game and both sides should be respective of each other I agree one side shouldn't scoop but I also believe that the other side could at least give hints to the other players if not then it will all just be for nothing and the repetitiveness will continue.
But if you enjoy rolling over people at your LGS with splinter twin while they have mono blue bears because they can't afford a better deck because let's say they're working a second job to pay for a family members medical costs then have fun.
I personally don't play competitively outside of Limited, but in this hypothetical, if this person is so strapped for cash why are they spending money on entry fees and other expenses if they aren't even going to put together a real deck? That's assuming Blue Bears (great deck name BTW) is actually bad -- it could be awesome for all I know. Competitive budget options always exist. Heck, before mono black became the deck to beat, you could get all the pieces for like $30. If you're creative you can easily build competitive decks on the cheap, especially if you have friends you can borrow cards from.
The point is that the moment you sign up for an actual tournament, you accept that everyone is going to play their best to win. Thus you lose the right to complain when someone plays fairly with a legal deck and beats you consistently. If you don't like it either change your deck to combat this new challenge, or stop attending the tournament. What you shouldn't do is pout and throw a hissyfit by refusing to even shuffle up for a game because his deck is better than yours.
P.S. I said it was unreasonable for you to expect this player to only play in major tournaments when they are held infrequently and often require major travel and time commitment, as well as expenses. Just because he is a good player and has a good deck that shouldn't exclude him from playing at the LGS that is both convenient and regularly scheduled.
But if you enjoy rolling over people at your LGS with splinter twin while they have mono blue bears because they can't afford a better deck because let's say they're working a second job to pay for a family members medical costs then have fun.
I personally don't play competitively outside of Limited, but in this hypothetical, if this person is so strapped for cash why are they spending money on entry fees and other expenses if they aren't even going to put together a real deck? That's assuming Blue Bears (great deck name BTW) is actually bad -- it could be awesome for all I know. Competitive budget options always exist. Heck, before mono black became the deck to beat, you could get all the pieces for like $30. If you're creative you can easily build competitive decks on the cheap, especially if you have friends you can borrow cards from.
The point is that the moment you sign up for an actual tournament, you accept that everyone is going to play their best to win. Thus you lose the right to complain when someone plays fairly with a legal deck and beats you consistently. If you don't like it either change your deck to combat this new challenge, or stop attending the tournament. What you shouldn't do is pout and throw a hissyfit by refusing to even shuffle up for a game because his deck is better than yours.
P.S. I said it was unreasonable for you to expect this player to only play in major tournaments when they are held infrequently and often require major travel and time commitment, as well as expenses. Just because he is a good player and has a good deck that shouldn't exclude him from playing at the LGS that is both convenient and regularly scheduled.
In a single player setting for such tournament, this is why I always have a "competitive deck" and "jerk.dec." "Jerk.dec" is basically whatever the most annoying deck I can build I build. The other is a "loaner model" if someone wants to play it. Sharuum infinite combo and the like tends to keep the power players trying to go off first, however unless if they don't play EDH enough or know their net deck list good enough. Can normally defeat them.
The most annoying I tend to find are those who use multiplayer tactics, such as "my friends let's kill all the strangers and keep this game to ourselves" strategies. I saw that trap once coming, was able to communicate with the other player by stating specifically the strategies of their decks and then following up with keeping specific hoser cards in my hand against the both of them. It made for a fun 2 headed pseudo giant game, was fun for us and not so much for the other guys without knowing their decks that well.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
But if you enjoy rolling over people at your LGS with splinter twin while they have mono blue bears because they can't afford a better deck because let's say they're working a second job to pay for a family members medical costs then have fun.
I personally don't play competitively outside of Limited, but in this hypothetical, if this person is so strapped for cash why are they spending money on entry fees and other expenses if they aren't even going to put together a real deck? That's assuming Blue Bears (great deck name BTW) is actually bad -- it could be awesome for all I know. Competitive budget options always exist. Heck, before mono black became the deck to beat, you could get all the pieces for like $30. If you're creative you can easily build competitive decks on the cheap, especially if you have friends you can borrow cards from.
The point is that the moment you sign up for an actual tournament, you accept that everyone is going to play their best to win. Thus you lose the right to complain when someone plays fairly with a legal deck and beats you consistently. If you don't like it either change your deck to combat this new challenge, or stop attending the tournament. What you shouldn't do is pout and throw a hissyfit by refusing to even shuffle up for a game because his deck is better than yours.
P.S. I said it was unreasonable for you to expect this player to only play in major tournaments when they are held infrequently and often require major travel and time commitment, as well as expenses. Just because he is a good player and has a good deck that shouldn't exclude him from playing at the LGS that is both convenient and regularly scheduled.
Btw to get it out of the way seeing as I find it hilarious there is a budget deck in modern that runs delver/Phantasmal Bear/Ninja of the deep hours, we call it blue bears or blue ninja bears.
Second off, in most competitive formats you can not build a deck that will beat the best deck for a reasonable price lets give some examples of how much you'd have to pay in about every format to be competitive.
Modern: $500- I know there are more budget builds but we are talking about tier 1 and the cheapest tier 1 deck is infinity
Legacy: ( insert some ridiculous price) I'm honestly not sure about this one just due to how crazy dual lands are at the moment.
EDH: $200+ reaching astronomical heights depending on how competitive you wish to make it.
The only format this doesn't apply to is standard simply for the fact it's not a solved format so the prices are erratic and you can often get a competitive deck if your ahead of the pack.
So once again barring standard every other tournament format or eternal requires quite a big investment from the player.
Also regarding the hypothetical player this is one of the only ways he enjoys himself and he decides to pay a small cost and try out his deck that he worked so hard on, telling him not to come the tournament is just the same story of your competitive player just there situations are totally different.
I'm not sure if it could even work in a duel commander tournament, but aside from winning, prizes are also handed out in our multiplayer tournaments for the person who was voted most fun to play with. In terms of prize numbers, they take first and the person who won all of their rounds takes second. Everyone also gets at least one pack for participating. You do get a pack for winning your round, and one for winning the winners pod (which puts you in second). If you can win and still get voted as the most likeable, you get an additional pack and the rest (minus one) goes to the person with the second highest votes, though that has yet to happen.
It wasn't nessesarily done to try to discourage winning, but to balance out the power level gap in our meta. It ranges from people trying to play 100 card highlander vintage (though we did house ban Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam for that reason), and people working on modifying precons.
Our tournament was also set up to be casual, and the more cutthroat players were warned that's how it would work before hand, which could be a contributing factor to why it's worked so far.
No, that's your definition of a tournament. Even if it's the "dictionary" definition, it does not apply at all here.
Ah yes that's right, in the EDH section we just ignore reality and claim that unwritten social rules are the ones you actually have to follow instead of those pesky, actually written ones.
Do you really apply this line of thinking to your moral standards? Then you're REALLY a very poor person. Oh god, I don't want to imagine what would be if everyone on this planet adhered to this philosophy. I'd go as far and say that many problems we have in our society and our world is based that egoistic profit-driven view.
And you said I was making forced irrelevant hyperboles...
It is not about hissyfits. Do you even read the thread? It's not about a god-given law of tournament that these people heretically decline. It's a social and community-based environment with certain agreements which create the atmosphere these players want to play and dwell in (it is not about blabla no answers craw-wurm nonsense so do not even get started on that).
It very much is about that. Just because you ignore that fact doesn't change it. Once you start "community banning" strategies or cards or decks you've already opened the floodgates to a tournament where little Timmy can pout and cry about any deck that beats his; "That deck is too good, let's ban it!" is what you'll hear until all you're left with is craw wurms and bears. If that's what you want then by all means go ahead and play like that and ostracize any who dare to play actual good decks. I'm merely content to play in a community of adults who understand what a tournament is.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Not talking about EDH specific social rules. Unwritten social rules in general. They do exist. Do you even think before posting? Life and interaction between people is FULL of unwritten social rules. That's how society works!
Thankfully those have no bearing inside the game. Magic, and by extension, Organized Play, is a system of rules that explicitly govern what you can and cannot do. These are the only rules that are relevant when testing your skills at the game against another, which is the fundamental purpose of a tournament.
No. They don't want to ban the deck down to . This ridiculous statement, that runs amok on this board, that players who do not want to play tier1.dec EDH do wish the opposite is pure and utter nonsense.
Then what do they want? Because so far all I've seen are posters calling this player toxic and recommending that the TO bans him when all indications are his only crime was playing an annoyingly powerful deck. So what is the silver bullet solution here, beyond telling this player to power down or change decks, both of which he is under no obligation to do because, again, he's done nothing wrong.
A group of friends is playing basketball on a freecourt (casual players, 3on3 or similar, so a "tournament").
I'm going to just cut this off here because a pickup game among friends is in no way similar to an actual tournament. Calling it a tournament is the same as saying your casual kitchen table game of Magic with your sibling is a tournament.
Not talking about EDH specific social rules. Unwritten social rules in general. They do exist. Do you even think before posting? Life and interaction between people is FULL of unwritten social rules. That's how society works!
Thankfully those have no bearing inside the game. Magic, and by extension, Organized Play, is a system of rules that explicitly govern what you can and cannot do. These are the only rules that are relevant when testing your skills at the game against another, which is the fundamental purpose of a tournament.
No. They don't want to ban the deck down to . This ridiculous statement, that runs amok on this board, that players who do not want to play tier1.dec EDH do wish the opposite is pure and utter nonsense.
Then what do they want? Because so far all I've seen are posters calling this player toxic and recommending that the TO bans him when all indications are his only crime was playing an annoyingly powerful deck. So what is the silver bullet solution here, beyond telling this player to power down or change decks, both of which he is under no obligation to do because, again, he's done nothing wrong.
A group of friends is playing basketball on a freecourt (casual players, 3on3 or similar, so a "tournament").
I'm going to just cut this off here because a pickup game among friends is in no way similar to an actual tournament. Calling it a tournament is the same as saying your casual kitchen table game of Magic with your sibling is a tournament.
Let's ignore the fact that I reccomend end that the player with the better deck at least consult the newer players about there decks to try and help them improve there game.
But "theflow" is correct there are unwritten social laws in every aspect the most general one is don't be a dick is holding a piece of candy out of a kids reach and refusing to tell them ways to obtain that piece of candy being a dick? Yes, is it illegal? No, does it make it right? No. Same concept.
Also tournament's do not have to be official to be a tournament they just have to be two or more people playing in a constructed way to determine who is the best at that activity.
To the op - if he only has one nasty trick, then sadistic sacrament, jester's cap, praetor's grasp, etc. will bone him over. I have played Ruric Thar aggro/anti-control before and it is awesome but I wouldn't recommend it here.
To the general discussion at large - I play EDH for fun, and play at a weekly tournament-type setting with a buy-in. People play to win, and people play to have fun. If you're enjoying the game, you'll do it whether animar wins turn 5 or not, at least, I do.
If it is totally casual, then your group can play with whatever self-imposed limitations it wants. But at any time anyone can break those limitations, and in a tournament for money it is a little naïve to think everyone will play tier 3 decks.
The metaphor of a pickup game being played was used. That was a bad metaphor. As march madness is going on right now, what would be the nation's outrage if Dayton (11 seed, this years FGC for those who don't follow the best sport ever) announced they'd play their redshirt scrubs to be more socially acceptable and make sure the other team had a better chance at winning and had fun?
It would be a big deal. Same thing for the badgers or any other team. It's a tournament. Play to win. If you don't want to, play to reach your own personal goals and in accordance with you own limitations, but don't expect others to.
To the op - if he only has one nasty trick, then sadistic sacrament, jester's cap, praetor's grasp, etc. will bone him over. I have played Ruric Thar aggro/anti-control before and it is awesome but I wouldn't recommend it here.
To the general discussion at large - I play EDH for fun, and play at a weekly tournament-type setting with a buy-in. People play to win, and people play to have fun. If you're enjoying the game, you'll do it whether animar wins turn 5 or not, at least, I do.
If it is totally casual, then your group can play with whatever self-imposed limitations it wants. But at any time anyone can break those limitations, and in a tournament for money it is a little naïve to think everyone will play tier 3 decks.
The metaphor of a pickup game being played was used. That was a bad metaphor. As march madness is going on right now, what would be the nation's outrage if Dayton (11 seed, this years FGC for those who don't follow the best sport ever) announced they'd play their redshirt scrubs to be more socially acceptable and make sure the other team had a better chance at winning and had fun?
It would be a big deal. Same thing for the badgers or any other team. It's a tournament. Play to win. If you don't want to, play to reach your own personal goals and in accordance with you own limitations, but don't expect others to.
You can't really compare card games to physical sports seeing as let's say basketball the main thing it requires is skill I mean you can have the nicest pair of shoes or the best jersey's but that doesn't help you win the game, but with magic you can literally go out and buy the best deck and even if you don't know how to play it there's a good chance you'll still win regardless.
That's not true at all, really. Practice makes prefect in everything, and rushing or being an unskilled player will result in loss, no matter how good your deck is.
And emrakul and mass polymorph don't break the bank, either.
That's not true at all, really. Practice makes prefect in everything, and rushing or being an unskilled player will result in loss, no matter how good your deck is.
And emrakul and mass polymorph don't break the bank, either.
Practice doesn't buy you card's bro hence my point, if you have a deck full of craw wurm's vs a let's say show and tell you will lose simply because your pieces of cardboard are not as good as your opponent's regardless of how skillful you are or not, there is no example of that in any physical sport because well physical item's don't inherently give you skill at a game, what it comes down to is not primarily your skill or knowledge of the game but the card's you have especially when it comes to two people of the same skill level but not of the same budget range.
I've seen cheaper decks beat much more expensive decks, and more experienced pilots lose too.
Luck, skill, and budget are important to a singleton format, and IMO in that order.
If I can't afford $1000 for the fetchs and duals for a tri-colored deck, by my opponent can, does that give him an edge? Not really. He has a better landbase, sure, but I run no (outside of ZEN) fetches and no duals, and rarely get mana-screwed colorwise.
What else costs $200 per card that is a required card for a strategy? Hermit druid and ad nauseum cost not much at all, and are the most oppressive archetypes in the format. Zur the enchanter is a semi-expensive card, but cards that he goes great with - empyreal armor, necropotence, enchanted evening, greater auramancy don't cost much either. And I really don't think budget is the issue here.
1: Bring your "A" game. Bring decks that can win 1-on-1, play them ruthlessly and relentlessly. You might have less fun than playing semi-casual (or you might be surprised and really enjoy a highly competitive environment once a month. It can be fun to play at your absolute best, and know your opponents are all doing the same.)
2: Stop playing at the LGS with this player. If your group isn't having fun, isn't enjoying the tournament, and doesn't want to play seriously competitive, then you shouldn't be paying to play in that tournament. It sounds like it isn't what you're looking for from the game, and not all formats or venues are enjoyable for all players. Set up an EDH league, play at a friend's house, but ignore tournaments where you're going to face opponents who are playing to win when you're playing for the fun of it.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Also I would reccomend talking to your TO about switching over to multiplayer seeing as duel commander tends to be way more competitive, so if your LGS is more casual then I would highly reccomend this option as well as trying to set up a league.
I agree for some part, but let's get this out of the way it is not the pieces of cardboard that bother the OP and his LGS it is for the most part his attitude, of abusing a LGS's community for prize support is unhealthy for the game in any format. I would also like to state wishing to have fun=\=not wanting to win because if that were true the game would have no goal and no one could be mad at a certain playstyle.
Let's put it in light I play a BW Tokens deck for modern semi-competively it's obviously not too strong in the overall meta but it is strong in my local meta and I find no challenge in winning with that where as I would in some major tournament, instead of abusing my local meta by playing my $500-600 deck I play a little rogue death cloud deck that costs less then $100 not because " I don't want to win so I shouldn't play in tournament's" but because I want a challenge and they want a chance to win.
Oppressing a whole meta with a deck that they cannot beat due to whatever reason is not competitive it's toxic to the players and the store, and I don't support these actions in any format.
Honestly, I find this to be disrespectful. How would you feel if your opponent sits down from you with a less-than-optimal deck because "you aren't good enough for the better deck"?
fine? because the efficacy of a deck is not a personal statement. they're cards. they're not you. and skill frankly isn't nearly as important as the stack of cardboard rectangles in front of you.
Let's put the facts down on the table a competitive deck is expensive and I realize that not everyone can drop $500-$1000+ on pieces of cardboard if anything I'm being respectful in my own way instead of steam rolling a LGS meta with more budget builds with my optimal seventy-five.
I play this game to challenge myself out of tight situations and close games and I get no enjoyment from easy wins, so I play my more casual non-optimal deck if others are playing non-optimal decks, this isn't chess or go where you are required to have the utmost skill %100 of the time and both players don't have the same pieces so this is how I try to even the playing field.
Actually in his later posts he does give examples of some of the players actions and his general attitude is that he doesn't care about the rest of the players more prize support for me, regardless of what you believe for most people an LGS is a community and usually communities have a base power level and he's taking advantage of that and frankly that is inherently wrong.
If he wished to play at a high competitive level as well he wouldn't come back to a store with players who are less competitive he would find a new store or only play at events, which once again leads me back to the point that he's just taking advantage of players who don't wish to play that competitively.
I won't bother getting in a discussion about how small minded you are about local gaming in general seeing as they aren't a huge event like a GP, Or a PT you will most likely not find " BestDeckForFormat.dec" and if that's what the player is looking for he should start going to the named events and compete or the players with less optimal build will wish to become better and succeed but Baisically saying " the blame should be on the rest of the players " is a "cop-out" as well.
Also, you make it sound as if PTQs are held right down the street from you every weekend, but unfortunately many players don't have that luxury. There's a good chance this store is the only one that is a reasonable distance for this player. Saying that he should drive hours each way or only play at large events is completely unreasonable when a LGS exists.
I don't know about you, but when I go to my LGS for a Standard or Modern tournament, I fully expect to see numerous top decks. Simply because you don't take FNM as seriously as a larger event doesn't mean everyone feels the same. Are you actually arguing that players should intentionally gimp themselves when building their decks for FNM for fear they might upset someone? Because that concept is honestly baffling to me. Where do you draw the line? Am I not allowed to play anything except bears and craw wurms because everything else is "too good"?
The fact of the matter is that a tournament is not a casual setting. The objective is to win every game and eventually the grand prize. If you want to play a homebrew or your pet tribal hydra deck, by all means go ahead, but expecting others to play down to your level is ridiculous and reeks of entitlement. If you knowingly play a sub par deck, that's a personal choice, and that means you accept the consequences, which in this case means taking your lumps like a trooper when a better deck comes along.
So let me get this straight by your reasoning it is unreasonable for someone who has obviously invested quite a bit of money on there respective format to go and challenge themselves on a higher stage but it is more reasonable to ask that every other member of my LGS spend the kind of cash I do on EDH/Modern/Legacy because that's the best deck and If your playing in a tournament you must be playing the best cards.
Yes PTQ's aren't held every weekend down the street but at least you would be receiving a competitive experience, as I have said before there is only one reason someone with a highly tuned deck would continue playing a tournament with sub-optimal decks and that would be for the obvious prize support and if that is the reason ( it's the only possible reason I could think of) then I don't support it, and that's my simple opinion about the situation in that regard.
Let's put this straight okay for the most part this game when it comes to just about every format is who has the biggest budget, the second most important thing is knowledge of the game lets compare this to chess, chess is %100 about knowledge of the game and mechanics and your skill and foresight at executing the game, magic on the other hand is making interactions between pieces of cardboard to win but simply put some pieces of cardboard are better then others so when I play at my LGS I compete against people on the closest power level I can because it's a more enjoyable experience. But if you enjoy rolling over people at your LGS with splinter twin while they have mono blue bears because they can't afford a better deck because let's say they're working a second job to pay for a family members medical costs then have fun.
This is a game and we are all people and all of us have different situations, regardless of who is right or wrong this is a game and both sides should be respective of each other I agree one side shouldn't scoop but I also believe that the other side could at least give hints to the other players if not then it will all just be for nothing and the repetitiveness will continue.
The point is that the moment you sign up for an actual tournament, you accept that everyone is going to play their best to win. Thus you lose the right to complain when someone plays fairly with a legal deck and beats you consistently. If you don't like it either change your deck to combat this new challenge, or stop attending the tournament. What you shouldn't do is pout and throw a hissyfit by refusing to even shuffle up for a game because his deck is better than yours.
P.S. I said it was unreasonable for you to expect this player to only play in major tournaments when they are held infrequently and often require major travel and time commitment, as well as expenses. Just because he is a good player and has a good deck that shouldn't exclude him from playing at the LGS that is both convenient and regularly scheduled.
In a single player setting for such tournament, this is why I always have a "competitive deck" and "jerk.dec." "Jerk.dec" is basically whatever the most annoying deck I can build I build. The other is a "loaner model" if someone wants to play it. Sharuum infinite combo and the like tends to keep the power players trying to go off first, however unless if they don't play EDH enough or know their net deck list good enough. Can normally defeat them.
The most annoying I tend to find are those who use multiplayer tactics, such as "my friends let's kill all the strangers and keep this game to ourselves" strategies. I saw that trap once coming, was able to communicate with the other player by stating specifically the strategies of their decks and then following up with keeping specific hoser cards in my hand against the both of them. It made for a fun 2 headed pseudo giant game, was fun for us and not so much for the other guys without knowing their decks that well.
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Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Btw to get it out of the way seeing as I find it hilarious there is a budget deck in modern that runs delver/Phantasmal Bear/Ninja of the deep hours, we call it blue bears or blue ninja bears.
Second off, in most competitive formats you can not build a deck that will beat the best deck for a reasonable price lets give some examples of how much you'd have to pay in about every format to be competitive.
Modern: $500- I know there are more budget builds but we are talking about tier 1 and the cheapest tier 1 deck is infinity
Legacy: ( insert some ridiculous price) I'm honestly not sure about this one just due to how crazy dual lands are at the moment.
EDH: $200+ reaching astronomical heights depending on how competitive you wish to make it.
The only format this doesn't apply to is standard simply for the fact it's not a solved format so the prices are erratic and you can often get a competitive deck if your ahead of the pack.
So once again barring standard every other tournament format or eternal requires quite a big investment from the player.
Also regarding the hypothetical player this is one of the only ways he enjoys himself and he decides to pay a small cost and try out his deck that he worked so hard on, telling him not to come the tournament is just the same story of your competitive player just there situations are totally different.
It wasn't nessesarily done to try to discourage winning, but to balance out the power level gap in our meta. It ranges from people trying to play 100 card highlander vintage (though we did house ban Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam for that reason), and people working on modifying precons.
Our tournament was also set up to be casual, and the more cutthroat players were warned that's how it would work before hand, which could be a contributing factor to why it's worked so far.
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And you said I was making forced irrelevant hyperboles...
It very much is about that. Just because you ignore that fact doesn't change it. Once you start "community banning" strategies or cards or decks you've already opened the floodgates to a tournament where little Timmy can pout and cry about any deck that beats his; "That deck is too good, let's ban it!" is what you'll hear until all you're left with is craw wurms and bears. If that's what you want then by all means go ahead and play like that and ostracize any who dare to play actual good decks. I'm merely content to play in a community of adults who understand what a tournament is.
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My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Then what do they want? Because so far all I've seen are posters calling this player toxic and recommending that the TO bans him when all indications are his only crime was playing an annoyingly powerful deck. So what is the silver bullet solution here, beyond telling this player to power down or change decks, both of which he is under no obligation to do because, again, he's done nothing wrong.
I'm going to just cut this off here because a pickup game among friends is in no way similar to an actual tournament. Calling it a tournament is the same as saying your casual kitchen table game of Magic with your sibling is a tournament.
Let's ignore the fact that I reccomend end that the player with the better deck at least consult the newer players about there decks to try and help them improve there game.
But "theflow" is correct there are unwritten social laws in every aspect the most general one is don't be a dick is holding a piece of candy out of a kids reach and refusing to tell them ways to obtain that piece of candy being a dick? Yes, is it illegal? No, does it make it right? No. Same concept.
Also tournament's do not have to be official to be a tournament they just have to be two or more people playing in a constructed way to determine who is the best at that activity.
To the general discussion at large - I play EDH for fun, and play at a weekly tournament-type setting with a buy-in. People play to win, and people play to have fun. If you're enjoying the game, you'll do it whether animar wins turn 5 or not, at least, I do.
If it is totally casual, then your group can play with whatever self-imposed limitations it wants. But at any time anyone can break those limitations, and in a tournament for money it is a little naïve to think everyone will play tier 3 decks.
The metaphor of a pickup game being played was used. That was a bad metaphor. As march madness is going on right now, what would be the nation's outrage if Dayton (11 seed, this years FGC for those who don't follow the best sport ever) announced they'd play their redshirt scrubs to be more socially acceptable and make sure the other team had a better chance at winning and had fun?
It would be a big deal. Same thing for the badgers or any other team. It's a tournament. Play to win. If you don't want to, play to reach your own personal goals and in accordance with you own limitations, but don't expect others to.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
You can't really compare card games to physical sports seeing as let's say basketball the main thing it requires is skill I mean you can have the nicest pair of shoes or the best jersey's but that doesn't help you win the game, but with magic you can literally go out and buy the best deck and even if you don't know how to play it there's a good chance you'll still win regardless.
And emrakul and mass polymorph don't break the bank, either.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg:
Practice doesn't buy you card's bro hence my point, if you have a deck full of craw wurm's vs a let's say show and tell you will lose simply because your pieces of cardboard are not as good as your opponent's regardless of how skillful you are or not, there is no example of that in any physical sport because well physical item's don't inherently give you skill at a game, what it comes down to is not primarily your skill or knowledge of the game but the card's you have especially when it comes to two people of the same skill level but not of the same budget range.
Luck, skill, and budget are important to a singleton format, and IMO in that order.
If I can't afford $1000 for the fetchs and duals for a tri-colored deck, by my opponent can, does that give him an edge? Not really. He has a better landbase, sure, but I run no (outside of ZEN) fetches and no duals, and rarely get mana-screwed colorwise.
What else costs $200 per card that is a required card for a strategy? Hermit druid and ad nauseum cost not much at all, and are the most oppressive archetypes in the format. Zur the enchanter is a semi-expensive card, but cards that he goes great with - empyreal armor, necropotence, enchanted evening, greater auramancy don't cost much either. And I really don't think budget is the issue here.
:symr::symu::symb:Nicol Bolas Control: symr::symu::symb:
:symr::symg:Ruric Thar, the Unbowed Beatdown :gruul::symgr:
:symg::symb::symw:Karador, Ghost Chieftain Recursion Control :symw::symb::symg: