My 5c Horde of Notions deck is probably my favorite, so I constantly look to improve it. While it runs a lot of fatties right now, I'm considering swapping some out for new ones. Not that any are bad, but more that I feel it could be optimized.
Here's the sort of stuff I'm looking for:
Minimum of 5 power. (Important. This is a pretty important synergy.)
A nice keyword. (Flying, Haste, Trample, Vigilance, etc.)
Some additional effect that matters. (Like Sun Titan or Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger.)
Possible to cast in 5c. (Divinity of Pride and Phyrexian Obliterator are no-nos.)
If it's amazing but misses one of those, let me know anyways. Sphinx of the Steel Wind is just a bunch of keywords and still rocks.
I'm looking to replace these cards. If you know of cards that do similar things, that's great but any awesome fatty works too.
Additionally, I'm not really looking for creatures that can hit really hard but not much else. I'm much happier with Sun Titan than Giant Adephage because both kill pretty fast but Sun Titan has a lot of uses past punching people.
In short: Don't recommend fatties that can only swing. Thanks a ton!
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Meh. He's a fatty that hits hard and is hard to kill, but little else. Especially with a lot of blue mages running bounce I can't see him being more useful than progenitus. (Who I want to replace for similar reasons.)
Ethersworn Adjudicator is really neat looking, and I'm putting him on the testing list. I would say his abilities are perfect with Omniscience (due to not needing mana to cast cards so I can use it all on him.) but I win anyways if Omniscience hits and sticks.
Thanks, keep the suggestions coming!
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Mindleech Mass will be tested, and Nicol Bolas too. His complicated mana cost scares me a bit though. Tsabo is the only other one that interests me though. The rest are pretty much just beaters with little-to-no other utility. This deck is already great at getting to 40 damage, so I'm mostly looking to a) protect my board b) get cards c) recur things d) disrupt my opponent and e) anything else that can punch someone AND do something relevant.
I'm going to clarify this more in the main post. Thanks for the reply though, Tsabo is interesting and will be considered. (Plus I've never heard of him before.)
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Mindleech Mass will be tested, and Nicol Bolas too. His complicated mana cost scares me a bit though. Tsabo is the only other one that interests me though. The rest are pretty much just beaters with little-to-no other utility. This deck is already great at getting to 40 damage, so I'm mostly looking to a) protect my board b) get cards c) recur things d) disrupt my opponent and e) anything else that can punch someone AND do something relevant.
I'm going to clarify this more in the main post. Thanks for the reply though, Tsabo is interesting and will be considered. (Plus I've never heard of him before.)
Cool, no problem. One nice thing I just noticed about Nicol Bolas is that his discard trigger is just damage and not combat damage so your Warstorm Surge will come in handy there.
Nice spot. It also works wonders with any lifelinker, Charnelhoard Wurm (one of the coolest cards here.) and is amazing when cascaded into. (because it will hit first.)
I've won a few games by dropping Sphinx of the Steel Wind with it out and stabilizing life super fast. (6 from surge, 6 from probable haste, 6 from a block is going to turn most games.)
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
No love for Maelstrom Archangel? Yes, it has to connect, but casting a free Wanderer or a Progenitus off of Archangel with Nexus in play is pretty absurd...
I love her, and she's already in my deck. Personally I think a free Omniscience is the best think she can get.
This is the best post yet. I considered all of those card draw guys (and run Kozilek.) but I decided Sphinx of Uthuun is probably best because of the ability to not care if he lives or dies and being better for playing off omniscience.
The removal dudes: I'm trying to keep Ulamog out of my deck because he's such an obvious card, but I'll probably include him eventually. Ashen Rider is one that completely slipped my mind. That's going to be tested.
Sigarda is the only one I don't run, but I've yet to have problems with sac effects so I'm pretty much fine.
I run Sheoldred, and will need to test Artisan.
Not only do I play those three, I've once hit with Angel, cast Wanderer and cascaded into Enigma Sphinx with a Maelstrom Nexus on the field. Cascade, Cascade, Cascade, Cascade! Lulz were had.
Final note: Wanderer is an elemental, so my general makes him even more amazing with a sac outlet. (And nobody will kill him, so free haste and a 7/5 for game.)
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
For Wanderer EDH consider Dream Halls. It'll let you cast wanderer with any non-land non-colorless-artifact card in your deck, so you can get TONS of cascade triggers. Add enough card draw to cascade into and you might be able to cast your whole deck in 1 turn with a sac outlet.
You could also just upgrade to my decklist. Wanderer is my #1 tutor target and feels like a second in command. Especially since Horde will bring him back every time he dies for 5 mana, and then cascade twice at 8. (Because it says cast on Horde. Also sac outlets make great EoT plays with extra mana not needed for removal.)
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Have you considered more big artifacts, like Inkwell Leviathan or Blightsteel Colossus? in 5 color, 2 colored might be a bit steep though, I don't know.
The five color manabase is actually pretty cheap here. As long as you buy 1 of each shockland (like $60) you can get the rest for under $30. You don't really need the fetchlands, although they do work great with Sun Titan. Run the 5 vivids, 10 shocklands 10-18 basics and a few various other lands and a little ramp will bring you there. The 10 duals 10 shocks 10 fetches setup isn't needed.
But yeah, dream halls is hilarious. I once had a deck based on getting Dream Halls out T4-5 wit counter backup and then playing my whole deck infinite times. Needless to say people didn't really like playing against it.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Have you considered more big artifacts, like Inkwell Leviathan or Blightsteel Colossus? in 5 color, 2 colored might be a bit steep though, I don't know.
The one thing that I've never had a problem with is actually murdering people. I've found beaters without any other effects are pretty much useless compared to things like Vengeful Archon or Charnelhoard Wurm who kill quickly but serve another purpose. The only beaters without effects like that I have are lifelinkers, which is VERY important when you're often unable to block and getting swung at by scared squishy mages. Not to mention the shocklands and such.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Found a Horde of Notions in my trade binder...brewing something right now...but won't get to play it until Friday. And worried about my lack of tutors...Diabolic Tutor and Time of Need is best I can do right now :/
That's fine. I personally avoid having many tutors in my decks, because it makes it feel boring. Games go very similar when you tutor for the same cards every time. The only tutors other than diabolic I use are Bringer of the Black Dawn and Supply//Demand.
One card I cannot recommend more highly is Vanish Into Memory. Want to know how to score a pretty easy win? Etched Monstrosity. Draw 3, Vanish into Memory, Draw 10. Maybe win that turn, but otherwise only need to discard 5 and draw 3 right after. If you can't win off 16 cards there's a serious problem.
It's my favorite card in EDH. I've won countless games off of it. You'll never have a problem getting 5+ cards including discard, and with Omniscience down you can easily just go Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Vanish Into Memory, Memory Jar. Play 16 Cards. Crack Memory Jar, Sharuum the Hegemon, 6 cards, 7 more. You probably win that turn. I've had that happen 15+ times with this deck, and similar things in other decks over a hundred times.
When you come up with a list, please post it in my thread. I'd love to see it.
Also: What's your meta like? Competitive? Casual? In between? Are you guys for or against MLD? What's prevalent? I can help tailor the deck a bit towards your meta if you want.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
How did you build your horde? Elemental Tribal? Control? Voltron? Low Cost Aggro?
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Silent-Blade Oni is probably better than Mindleech Mass. Nobody ever expects it, and you almost always get to trigger his effect immediately which is a huge bonus over the mass. Also, it lets you reuse one etb ability and is fairly cheap to acquire (I think).
I don't have many ETB abilities, and the lack of trample is worrying. If I find Mindleech Mass gets removed before I can attack too often I'll give him a try though. Thanks!
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I built my horde as a 5c Control, if you want my list shoot me a pm and I'll write it down for you. It's pretty decent deck, but kinda expensive.
Why did you choose Horde over Child, Puppet King, Scion or a Sliver? Honestly wondering, just to make sure you don't misconstrue my tone.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
You should consider running a few more elementals. I would suggest Crib Swap, (Not the best removal in the game, but it can be reused whenever so it's actually amazing if you can keep your general down for any amount of time longer than 1 turn cycle.) Maelstrom Wanderer (Because you can recur him for 5 mana and get double cascades @ 8. You might even save him to discard so you never need to tap out on your turn for him. Plus people don't want to remove him when you can get so much value from recurring him, so he's going to live longer than most things. He's proven to be my #1 tutor target by far.) and maybe Bane of Progress and/or Fertilid. (Depending on what your board requires and number of non-basics respectively. Fertilid is surprisingly amazing, plus he's great ramp vs ruination/price of progress/back to basics/blood moon.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Sure wanderer is obvious, but his power is enought to make up for his flaws. Give him a try, he's better than you think.
You don't even need to entomb for him. Discard effects work wonders to do your work for you.
Although if you do just have 6 mana and your general out. It's a prefect play considering the curve.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Yep. I have a badly constructed Horde of Notions deck (mostly from leftover fatties), and Maelstrom Wanderer was the best thing to happen to the deck in... well, forever. Usually he just cascades into a few rocks, since the deck by nature needs a lot of rocks to do anything before turn 5, but he always generates value, and provides a lot of sudden speed to an otherwise slow deck.
Magister Sphinx is fantastic, since casting it, followed by your general the next turn, is a one-shot kill. Some groups frown on the sphinx, though. Rafiq of the Many isn't a fatty, but works really well with almost any other fatty (Horde, Archangel). He can be a bit win-more at times. Medomai the Ageless also seems like a good candidate for nutty Wanderer cascades.
The Primordial cycle (Sepulchral, Luminate, Molten, and Diluvian) are also very solid in multiplayer.
I'd be pretty interested in hearing you explain the deck's operations. It sounds very similar to mine, though my deck is far from optimised. Mine plays rocks and support creatures for the first five turns, then tries to take over with value fatties. The problem with the deck is that it doesn't generate any powerful threats before turn 4-5, so it just gets dismantled by decks that are faster, more focussed, or more consistent.
This is from a phone on a vacation in Florida, so quality and card tags will suffer a bit. Just an FYI.
Yeah, my meta is mostly MLD free so I use land ramp over rocks. If you don't have MLD or similar effects a lot it's the better way to roll. (Winter orb, storm Cauldron etc.make Skyshroud claim cry.)
In a meta with many fast decks you'll need to lower your curve a bit. Retaliator Griffen, Serra ascendant, kavu preditor, wild nacatal, hunted troll and other faster threats will work better.
In a meta with most decks running midrange and late game plans big, overwhelming fatties will wreck people. Wanderer, Vengeful Archon, Avatar of Woe and other guys hitting every turn make everyone else stop their plans and try to answer the threats,rather than push forward their end-game. That quickly makes you win, because your deck can pump out and revive 1 or more per turn.
The key is A- getting people to play defensively while not over extending and B- making your creatures serve more than 1 purpose. If they beat people for 8 per turn but nothing else, change them for something like Avatar of Woe or Vengwful Archon. (Who shuts down voltron and infect strategies. )
Part A also includes not projecting too much threat until you can take it. Lifelink things help deal with it, but if it's archenemy from turn 1 you'll lose. You mostly do it by swinging at whoever is ignoring you and trying to do their thing , so they'll die if they ignore you. Also keep the mana open to remove big threats as they arrive, and don't use removal to slow people down outside of 1v1.
Part B is the point of this thread and my decklist.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
That makes a lot of sense. I suppose my meta is much faster and has more LD (Acidic Slime, Avalanche Riders, Terrastodon, Winter Orb, Cataclysm, etc). Basically, tap-out control and big ramp decks that rely solely on 5+ mana threats don't do so well. I've had more success by placing the ramp shell in something like Jarad.
I'll be home tomorrow, so if you can post a decklist I can help you out. I actually enjoy that stuff so don't worry.
In order to not fully detail this thread though please post it in my hoard thread in my description. Use spoiler tagsto kkeep the thread tidy to please.
Link is in my sig.
Also please give me an idea of the average game you play. When does it end? How many counter spells? Wad there one or more MLD spells? What are the top 5-10 decks you face? (Power and frequency) Is anything frowned upon? What is your budget?
Answer any or all of those if you can, so I can suggest the most relevant cards.
To anyone else reading, feel free to do the same. I can't promise an immediate response, but I'll do my best to get to them in a timely manner.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
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Here's the sort of stuff I'm looking for:
Minimum of 5 power. (Important. This is a pretty important synergy.)
A nice keyword. (Flying, Haste, Trample, Vigilance, etc.)
Some additional effect that matters. (Like Sun Titan or Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger.)
Possible to cast in 5c. (Divinity of Pride and Phyrexian Obliterator are no-nos.)
If it's amazing but misses one of those, let me know anyways. Sphinx of the Steel Wind is just a bunch of keywords and still rocks.
I'm looking to replace these cards. If you know of cards that do similar things, that's great but any awesome fatty works too.
The link to my deck is in my sig. Thanks guys!
EDIT: One of the major synergies to meet is a minimum of 5 power, so that Where Ancients Tread, Spellbreaker Behemoth and Spearbreaker Behemoth can do their thing.
Additionally, I'm not really looking for creatures that can hit really hard but not much else. I'm much happier with Sun Titan than Giant Adephage because both kill pretty fast but Sun Titan has a lot of uses past punching people.
In short: Don't recommend fatties that can only swing. Thanks a ton!
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
They're midrange guys, but Dralnu, Lich Lord, Havengul Lich, Mercurial Chemister, and Ethersworn Adjudicator can all take over a game if you untap with them.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
Meh. He's a fatty that hits hard and is hard to kill, but little else. Especially with a lot of blue mages running bounce I can't see him being more useful than progenitus. (Who I want to replace for similar reasons.)
Ethersworn Adjudicator is really neat looking, and I'm putting him on the testing list. I would say his abilities are perfect with Omniscience (due to not needing mana to cast cards so I can use it all on him.) but I win anyways if Omniscience hits and sticks.
Thanks, keep the suggestions coming!
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
There are some good multicolor dragons like Hellkite Overlord as well. Also Chromanticore looks fun to play in your deck.
EDIT: here are a few more that look like fun: Meglonoth, Mindleech Mass, Simic Sky Swallower, and also Nicol Bolas would certainly be a threat to deal with. Oh and last but not least, Tsabo Tavoc and Xenagos, God of Revels
Mindleech Mass will be tested, and Nicol Bolas too. His complicated mana cost scares me a bit though. Tsabo is the only other one that interests me though. The rest are pretty much just beaters with little-to-no other utility. This deck is already great at getting to 40 damage, so I'm mostly looking to a) protect my board b) get cards c) recur things d) disrupt my opponent and e) anything else that can punch someone AND do something relevant.
I'm going to clarify this more in the main post. Thanks for the reply though, Tsabo is interesting and will be considered. (Plus I've never heard of him before.)
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Cool, no problem. One nice thing I just noticed about Nicol Bolas is that his discard trigger is just damage and not combat damage so your Warstorm Surge will come in handy there.
I've won a few games by dropping Sphinx of the Steel Wind with it out and stabilizing life super fast. (6 from surge, 6 from probable haste, 6 from a block is going to turn most games.)
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
For removal attached to large bodies, you have Ulamog, the infinite gyre, angel of despair, woodfall primus, terastodon, and ashen rider.
For board protection, Sigarda, host of herons to deal with sac effects and Avacyn, angel of hope for overall protection. Stalking vengeance makes for a nasty rattlesnake.
For recursion, artisan of kozilek and sheoldred, whispering one.
I hope you're already running maelstrom archangel. Maelstrom wanderer and its buddy enigma sphinx, would also be good for cheating some stuff into play.
I love her, and she's already in my deck. Personally I think a free Omniscience is the best think she can get.
This is the best post yet. I considered all of those card draw guys (and run Kozilek.) but I decided Sphinx of Uthuun is probably best because of the ability to not care if he lives or dies and being better for playing off omniscience.
The removal dudes: I'm trying to keep Ulamog out of my deck because he's such an obvious card, but I'll probably include him eventually. Ashen Rider is one that completely slipped my mind. That's going to be tested.
Sigarda is the only one I don't run, but I've yet to have problems with sac effects so I'm pretty much fine.
I run Sheoldred, and will need to test Artisan.
Not only do I play those three, I've once hit with Angel, cast Wanderer and cascaded into Enigma Sphinx with a Maelstrom Nexus on the field. Cascade, Cascade, Cascade, Cascade! Lulz were had.
Final note: Wanderer is an elemental, so my general makes him even more amazing with a sac outlet. (And nobody will kill him, so free haste and a 7/5 for game.)
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
You could also just upgrade to my decklist. Wanderer is my #1 tutor target and feels like a second in command. Especially since Horde will bring him back every time he dies for 5 mana, and then cascade twice at 8. (Because it says cast on Horde. Also sac outlets make great EoT plays with extra mana not needed for removal.)
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
But yeah, dream halls is hilarious. I once had a deck based on getting Dream Halls out T4-5 wit counter backup and then playing my whole deck infinite times. Needless to say people didn't really like playing against it.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
The one thing that I've never had a problem with is actually murdering people. I've found beaters without any other effects are pretty much useless compared to things like Vengeful Archon or Charnelhoard Wurm who kill quickly but serve another purpose. The only beaters without effects like that I have are lifelinkers, which is VERY important when you're often unable to block and getting swung at by scared squishy mages. Not to mention the shocklands and such.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
That's fine. I personally avoid having many tutors in my decks, because it makes it feel boring. Games go very similar when you tutor for the same cards every time. The only tutors other than diabolic I use are Bringer of the Black Dawn and Supply//Demand.
One card I cannot recommend more highly is Vanish Into Memory. Want to know how to score a pretty easy win? Etched Monstrosity. Draw 3, Vanish into Memory, Draw 10. Maybe win that turn, but otherwise only need to discard 5 and draw 3 right after. If you can't win off 16 cards there's a serious problem.
It's my favorite card in EDH. I've won countless games off of it. You'll never have a problem getting 5+ cards including discard, and with Omniscience down you can easily just go Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Vanish Into Memory, Memory Jar. Play 16 Cards. Crack Memory Jar, Sharuum the Hegemon, 6 cards, 7 more. You probably win that turn. I've had that happen 15+ times with this deck, and similar things in other decks over a hundred times.
When you come up with a list, please post it in my thread. I'd love to see it.
Also: What's your meta like? Competitive? Casual? In between? Are you guys for or against MLD? What's prevalent? I can help tailor the deck a bit towards your meta if you want.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I don't have many ETB abilities, and the lack of trample is worrying. If I find Mindleech Mass gets removed before I can attack too often I'll give him a try though. Thanks!
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Why did you choose Horde over Child, Puppet King, Scion or a Sliver? Honestly wondering, just to make sure you don't misconstrue my tone.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
You should consider running a few more elementals. I would suggest Crib Swap, (Not the best removal in the game, but it can be reused whenever so it's actually amazing if you can keep your general down for any amount of time longer than 1 turn cycle.) Maelstrom Wanderer (Because you can recur him for 5 mana and get double cascades @ 8. You might even save him to discard so you never need to tap out on your turn for him. Plus people don't want to remove him when you can get so much value from recurring him, so he's going to live longer than most things. He's proven to be my #1 tutor target by far.) and maybe Bane of Progress and/or Fertilid. (Depending on what your board requires and number of non-basics respectively. Fertilid is surprisingly amazing, plus he's great ramp vs ruination/price of progress/back to basics/blood moon.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
You don't even need to entomb for him. Discard effects work wonders to do your work for you.
Although if you do just have 6 mana and your general out. It's a prefect play considering the curve.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Magister Sphinx is fantastic, since casting it, followed by your general the next turn, is a one-shot kill. Some groups frown on the sphinx, though.
Rafiq of the Many isn't a fatty, but works really well with almost any other fatty (Horde, Archangel). He can be a bit win-more at times.
Medomai the Ageless also seems like a good candidate for nutty Wanderer cascades.
The Primordial cycle (Sepulchral, Luminate, Molten, and Diluvian) are also very solid in multiplayer.
I'd be pretty interested in hearing you explain the deck's operations. It sounds very similar to mine, though my deck is far from optimised. Mine plays rocks and support creatures for the first five turns, then tries to take over with value fatties. The problem with the deck is that it doesn't generate any powerful threats before turn 4-5, so it just gets dismantled by decks that are faster, more focussed, or more consistent.
Patch me back to my mind
Yeah, my meta is mostly MLD free so I use land ramp over rocks. If you don't have MLD or similar effects a lot it's the better way to roll. (Winter orb, storm Cauldron etc.make Skyshroud claim cry.)
In a meta with many fast decks you'll need to lower your curve a bit. Retaliator Griffen, Serra ascendant, kavu preditor, wild nacatal, hunted troll and other faster threats will work better.
In a meta with most decks running midrange and late game plans big, overwhelming fatties will wreck people. Wanderer, Vengeful Archon, Avatar of Woe and other guys hitting every turn make everyone else stop their plans and try to answer the threats,rather than push forward their end-game. That quickly makes you win, because your deck can pump out and revive 1 or more per turn.
The key is A- getting people to play defensively while not over extending and B- making your creatures serve more than 1 purpose. If they beat people for 8 per turn but nothing else, change them for something like Avatar of Woe or Vengwful Archon. (Who shuts down voltron and infect strategies. )
Part A also includes not projecting too much threat until you can take it. Lifelink things help deal with it, but if it's archenemy from turn 1 you'll lose. You mostly do it by swinging at whoever is ignoring you and trying to do their thing , so they'll die if they ignore you. Also keep the mana open to remove big threats as they arrive, and don't use removal to slow people down outside of 1v1.
Part B is the point of this thread and my decklist.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Back to your original question, though.
- The recent bout of 'take stuff from opponents' creatures: Chancellor of the Spires, Luminate Primordial, Molten Primordial, Sepulchral Primordial, Diluvian Primordial
- Weenie Killers: Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Massacre Wurm, Pestilence Demon, Carnifex Demon, Crater Hellion.
- Insurance/Rattlesnake:
- Advantage Generators:
Patch me back to my mind
In order to not fully detail this thread though please post it in my hoard thread in my description. Use spoiler tagsto kkeep the thread tidy to please.
Link is in my sig.
Also please give me an idea of the average game you play. When does it end? How many counter spells? Wad there one or more MLD spells? What are the top 5-10 decks you face? (Power and frequency) Is anything frowned upon? What is your budget?
Answer any or all of those if you can, so I can suggest the most relevant cards.
To anyone else reading, feel free to do the same. I can't promise an immediate response, but I'll do my best to get to them in a timely manner.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress