This is why wizards gave you reaper king see now you can play unmake in your link white deck you just have to use the king. Want ghastlier fuge in mono B reaper king to the rescue ... I wait you don't want to change your general hmm you could always pretend that's how it works and see if people go with it . When I furst started playing at my old LGS I convinced them shahrazard was legal for awhile that was fun. Who didn't want to make "the inception deck" heck there was even a game that I got to inform them of a special commander rule that was in place when it was legal I doubt most players know in an incredibly sweet way. You used to be able to use shaharazad as an anti tuck tutor of sorts if your commander got tucked in my case sharum a combo peice . If you get it back into the command zone on the sub game and it was tucked in the first game you get it back in the cmc zone in the real game. Ah nothing a combo players loves more than a WW 20 life 45 minute demonic tutor
I feel like your own argument is a bit flawed. Both of the examples you brought up Dark Ritual and Prodigal Sorcerer are not alone examples of those mechanics in those sets nor were they abandoned when the color pie was more enforced in later sets.
Blue is obviously not primary or secondary in dealing damage, but it is part of their color pie, even if it is rarely. Doing a gatherer search you can come up with roughly 30 examples of blue dealing direct damage. While most of these ARE older cards there are quite a few newer examples (modern), such as Fledgling Mawcor and are roughly 18 or 19 examples of blue creatures being able to do this. Flavor wise it is their mastery of magic and the arcane that allow them to "bend" the rules a bit. I will not deny this is not a common treat but nor would I say it is incredibly farfetched. Some of the creatures are considered "multi-colored" in the purpose of color identity but I would say over half aren't. Some are even example of "pisionic" creatures which can deal damage at the cost of hurting themselves.
Black's argument I would say is even sillier. Black cares about mana, I would say it is secondary for mana generation along with red, primary being green. Though Wizards has clearly chosen to move rituals out of black, for the most part, that isn't true completely and black has plenty of cards that give a huge burst of mana for a short time, especially when it involves sac creatures to fuel their "rituals". A rough gatherer search comes up with 40 different cards that black uses to generate mana, many of which that do appear in "newer" sets like Time Sprawl and Torment where the color pies were more defined at least compared to earlier magic. I wouldn't deny that typically black doesn't accomplish this without paying some type of price, in retrospec I am sure Dark Ritual doesn't convey the flavor of greatness at any cost, like cards like Promise of power in the respect that black can have an incredibly flexible color pie if they sacrifice a creature, land, or pay some life. I don't fee this invalidates previous arguments though.
Early magic was rough, especially when it comes down to flavor. If a rule is made to try and capture flavor, in a card game, or any game, it is never going to be 100% accurate. Sometimes mechanics and balance can interfere or interrupt flavor in card design.
Harmonize I feel isn't very farfetched either. It is spot on for flavor, you are harnessing mana from the land to communicate with nature or through mediation to receive this knowledge. Considering Green is secondary, with black, in the color pie to receive card draw I don't see that as much of a stretch. Many many green cards generate card advantage, though this is closely tied to flavor and mechanics in green. Green cares about lands and creatures mostly, so many of their card advantage abilities reflect this Mulch and Commune with Nature are good examples of this, even if its not "drawing" while cards like Regal Force provide straight card drawing without being specific on type, though it has requirements to meet. Planar Chaos was meant to be a set that delved into flavor if the color pie was envisioned slightly different, but not completely alien. Many of these cards fit flavor perfectly Damnation being one of them as you mentioned. Though it wasn't common for black to have boardwipes very often, or for so cheap. It was later allowed black to be a stronger board wipe color as it leeched in later in different cards like Life's Finale.
In conclusion I just feel like people try to seek counter arguments using whatever they can find. No argument is ironclad and that is why in my first post I said you should look at "current" flavor of the color pie, I stated out many magic designers, including Maro didn't agree with the hybrid restriction in EDH, but when you get cards like Spitting Image or Dominus of Fealty or Drain the Well or even Sygg, River Cutthroat . Many of these cards work just fine in one of their colors as a mono but not very well in mono of the other or are weird combinations of their color pies. Green getting clone of anything and a token? Blue gaining control of something and giving haste for a turn? Green being able to destroy a land? Blue drawing cards based on suffering? Some of these cards honestly feel like they should be straight multicolored not hybrid based on their abilities.
I wouldn't use any cards from Time Spiral block or outside of modern as examples of representing mechanics in colors. Modern represents about the last decade's worth of magic give or take a few months and about half of magic's lifespan. If anything is representative of the color pie and mechanics, it should exist there. Of course Time Spiral is the exception as it's a set that is based upon nostalgia and as such many cards will reference older ones. As such, they aren't examples of what is acceptable under the current philosophy. Thus I find your defense of blue direct damage and black rituals to be unsubstantial. Blue doesn't have direct damage anymore and black doesn't have fast mana. Black does still have slower and/or conditional mana though which I think you actually agree with.
Anyways, your examples here regarding hybrid cards are also flawed. For the most part, hybrid cards can easily fall within either of the two colors. It's disingenuous to use the few isolated exceptions as a mark against the rest of the cards, not that the ones you listed even fall under the exceptions. Let's go through each of them:
Spitting Image: Green regularly makes copies of creatures. Most of the time it happens with tokens. Doubling SeasonParallel Lives and the populate mechanic. But it also happens with self replicating creatures as well as finding more copies of a specific creature. Giant AdephageSprouting PhytohydraSpawnwritheEssence of the WildDoubling ChantNissa Revane Working with creatures is green's forte. Straight up making copies of creatures is only a small step further than what green does on a regular basis. Also keep in mind that rare cards are allowed to have more leeway and less rigidity than commons and uncommons.
Dominous of Fealty: Do you really have a problem with blue taking control of things temporarily? This limited duration is weaker than most blue control effects. If a color can do something, then why can't it do a weaker version of it? Granting haste is simply there to make the temporary control change actually useful in game play.
Personally, I don't think it's worth the headache. I'm glad that I can look at someone's general and get a good idea of what that player's going to use. I'd rather be surprised by an innovative use of cards within a general's colours than someone who puts Pact of Negation and Platinum Angel in their deck.
Personally, I don't think it's worth the headache. I'm glad that I can look at someone's general and get a good idea of what that player's going to use. I'd rather be surprised by an innovative use of cards within a general's colours than someone who puts Pact of Negation and Platinum Angel in their deck.
It's posts like these that make me think any kind of rules change would be a nightmare, simply due to a lack of understanding by the general populace. NO ONE is arguing that hybrid cards aren't both of their colors. NO ONE is arguing that they're useable in decks of either color under the current rules. Pact of Negation isn't even a hybrid card, much less a multicolored one! The 'hybrid mana debate' regards whether the rules should be changed to accomodate the uniqueness of hybrid mana. If you can't see that hybrid symbols are in any way different than regular ones, that just proves my point.
From an aesthetic point, I'm glad the current EDH rules disallow hybrid cards in monocolor decks. Regardless of Omnath's ability to cast Spitting Image or Overbeing of Myth if they were legal, it feels wrong to me. Overbeing of Myth is a blue and a green card to me, not a blue or a green card (or both) depending on your deck. This is just my opinion, though, and if the RC were to change their minds on this, I wouldn't have an issue.
From a functional standpoint, I think it can be argued either way. Yes, hybrid mana does allow more decks to cast the card than the current rules allow. That would seem to argue that Chainer should be allowed to cast Demigod of Revenge (if for whatever reason he wants to in EDH). However, as Mercury01 says, you can't Unmake something with protection from black. Hybrid cards are still multicolor cards at the end of the day. Personal opinion is that being multicolor trumps casteability and I'm glad the current rules reflect this.
I feel like your own argument is a bit flawed. Both of the examples you brought up Dark Ritual and Prodigal Sorcerer are not alone examples of those mechanics in those sets nor were they abandoned when the color pie was more enforced in later sets.
Blue is obviously not primary or secondary in dealing damage, but it is part of their color pie, even if it is rarely. Doing a gatherer search you can come up with roughly 30 examples of blue dealing direct damage. While most of these ARE older cards there are quite a few newer examples (modern), such as Fledgling Mawcor and are roughly 18 or 19 examples of blue creatures being able to do this. Flavor wise it is their mastery of magic and the arcane that allow them to "bend" the rules a bit. I will not deny this is not a common treat but nor would I say it is incredibly farfetched. Some of the creatures are considered "multi-colored" in the purpose of color identity but I would say over half aren't. Some are even example of "pisionic" creatures which can deal damage at the cost of hurting themselves.
Black's argument I would say is even sillier. Black cares about mana, I would say it is secondary for mana generation along with red, primary being green. Though Wizards has clearly chosen to move rituals out of black, for the most part, that isn't true completely and black has plenty of cards that give a huge burst of mana for a short time, especially when it involves sac creatures to fuel their "rituals". A rough gatherer search comes up with 40 different cards that black uses to generate mana, many of which that do appear in "newer" sets like Time Sprawl and Torment where the color pies were more defined at least compared to earlier magic. I wouldn't deny that typically black doesn't accomplish this without paying some type of price, in retrospec I am sure Dark Ritual doesn't convey the flavor of greatness at any cost, like cards like Promise of power in the respect that black can have an incredibly flexible color pie if they sacrifice a creature, land, or pay some life. I don't fee this invalidates previous arguments though.
Early magic was rough, especially when it comes down to flavor. If a rule is made to try and capture flavor, in a card game, or any game, it is never going to be 100% accurate. Sometimes mechanics and balance can interfere or interrupt flavor in card design.
Harmonize I feel isn't very farfetched either. It is spot on for flavor, you are harnessing mana from the land to communicate with nature or through mediation to receive this knowledge. Considering Green is secondary, with black, in the color pie to receive card draw I don't see that as much of a stretch. Many many green cards generate card advantage, though this is closely tied to flavor and mechanics in green. Green cares about lands and creatures mostly, so many of their card advantage abilities reflect this Mulch and Commune with Nature are good examples of this, even if its not "drawing" while cards like Regal Force provide straight card drawing without being specific on type, though it has requirements to meet. Planar Chaos was meant to be a set that delved into flavor if the color pie was envisioned slightly different, but not completely alien. Many of these cards fit flavor perfectly Damnation being one of them as you mentioned. Though it wasn't common for black to have boardwipes very often, or for so cheap. It was later allowed black to be a stronger board wipe color as it leeched in later in different cards like Life's Finale.
In conclusion I just feel like people try to seek counter arguments using whatever they can find. No argument is ironclad and that is why in my first post I said you should look at "current" flavor of the color pie, I stated out many magic designers, including Maro didn't agree with the hybrid restriction in EDH, but when you get cards like Spitting Image or Dominus of Fealty or Drain the Well or even Sygg, River Cutthroat . Many of these cards work just fine in one of their colors as a mono but not very well in mono of the other or are weird combinations of their color pies. Green getting clone of anything and a token? Blue gaining control of something and giving haste for a turn? Green being able to destroy a land? Blue drawing cards based on suffering? Some of these cards honestly feel like they should be straight multicolored not hybrid based on their abilities.
I wouldn't use any cards from Time Spiral block or outside of modern as examples of representing mechanics in colors. Modern represents about the last decade's worth of magic give or take a few months and about half of magic's lifespan. If anything is representative of the color pie and mechanics, it should exist there. Of course Time Spiral is the exception as it's a set that is based upon nostalgia and as such many cards will reference older ones. As such, they aren't examples of what is acceptable under the current philosophy. Thus I find your defense of blue direct damage and black rituals to be unsubstantial. Blue doesn't have direct damage anymore and black doesn't have fast mana. Black does still have slower and/or conditional mana though which I think you actually agree with.
Anyways, your examples here regarding hybrid cards are also flawed. For the most part, hybrid cards can easily fall within either of the two colors. It's disingenuous to use the few isolated exceptions as a mark against the rest of the cards, not that the ones you listed even fall under the exceptions. Let's go through each of them:
Spitting Image: Green regularly makes copies of creatures. Most of the time it happens with tokens. Doubling SeasonParallel Lives and the populate mechanic. But it also happens with self replicating creatures as well as finding more copies of a specific creature. Giant AdephageSprouting PhytohydraSpawnwritheEssence of the WildDoubling ChantNissa Revane Working with creatures is green's forte. Straight up making copies of creatures is only a small step further than what green does on a regular basis. Also keep in mind that rare cards are allowed to have more leeway and less rigidity than commons and uncommons.
Dominous of Fealty: Do you really have a problem with blue taking control of things temporarily? This limited duration is weaker than most blue control effects. If a color can do something, then why can't it do a weaker version of it? Granting haste is simply there to make the temporary control change actually useful in game play.
The problem with Dominous wasn't with Act of Treason part it was the haste part. Each of those cards I mentioned feel more like a blend of cards than they do.
Drain the Well: Was more the fact that Green typically doesn't get "just lands" Destroy non-creature permanent is a slightly different flavor. I indeed forget about Feast of Worms.
Syg, that honestly didn't prove a point at all. The flavor behind ALL those cards is reconnaissance and scouting. Probing the enemy for weakness. Flavor wise Life loss and damage dealt are different. Syg's ability doesn't involve reconnaissance in essence because it can trigger without any creature "scouting"
The Spitting Image: is another flavor fair. Clones and copies flavorwise are very different. Doubling Season isn't extra tokens not clones of other things. Same with ALL THE OTHER cards you mentioned, they are more about reproduction than they are mimics and clones. Furthermore none of those target your opponent's things.
The main set of Time Spiral didn't violate any color pies, older sets can NOT be dismissed so easily. They all fit withing flavor. Honestly I would appreciate if you follow this by flavor wise not "Oh this looks similar so you are WRONG". Straight up destroying a land is very different than destroying a non-creature permanent both mechanically and flavorfully. So are scout abilities.
How about the OP just come out and say what card they really want to run in which of their decks? I find that really tends to be at the core of this discussion whenever someone starts it.
That said having a half white card, unmake lets say, in a mono black deck just strikes me as against the flavor of the format. It just looks and feels out of place to me.
I feel like your own argument is a bit flawed. Both of the examples you brought up Dark Ritual and Prodigal Sorcerer are not alone examples of those mechanics in those sets nor were they abandoned when the color pie was more enforced in later sets.
Blue is obviously not primary or secondary in dealing damage, but it is part of their color pie, even if it is rarely. Doing a gatherer search you can come up with roughly 30 examples of blue dealing direct damage. While most of these ARE older cards there are quite a few newer examples (modern), such as Fledgling Mawcor and are roughly 18 or 19 examples of blue creatures being able to do this. Flavor wise it is their mastery of magic and the arcane that allow them to "bend" the rules a bit. I will not deny this is not a common treat but nor would I say it is incredibly farfetched. Some of the creatures are considered "multi-colored" in the purpose of color identity but I would say over half aren't. Some are even example of "pisionic" creatures which can deal damage at the cost of hurting themselves.
Black's argument I would say is even sillier. Black cares about mana, I would say it is secondary for mana generation along with red, primary being green. Though Wizards has clearly chosen to move rituals out of black, for the most part, that isn't true completely and black has plenty of cards that give a huge burst of mana for a short time, especially when it involves sac creatures to fuel their "rituals". A rough gatherer search comes up with 40 different cards that black uses to generate mana, many of which that do appear in "newer" sets like Time Sprawl and Torment where the color pies were more defined at least compared to earlier magic. I wouldn't deny that typically black doesn't accomplish this without paying some type of price, in retrospec I am sure Dark Ritual doesn't convey the flavor of greatness at any cost, like cards like Promise of power in the respect that black can have an incredibly flexible color pie if they sacrifice a creature, land, or pay some life. I don't fee this invalidates previous arguments though.
Early magic was rough, especially when it comes down to flavor. If a rule is made to try and capture flavor, in a card game, or any game, it is never going to be 100% accurate. Sometimes mechanics and balance can interfere or interrupt flavor in card design.
Harmonize I feel isn't very farfetched either. It is spot on for flavor, you are harnessing mana from the land to communicate with nature or through mediation to receive this knowledge. Considering Green is secondary, with black, in the color pie to receive card draw I don't see that as much of a stretch. Many many green cards generate card advantage, though this is closely tied to flavor and mechanics in green. Green cares about lands and creatures mostly, so many of their card advantage abilities reflect this Mulch and Commune with Nature are good examples of this, even if its not "drawing" while cards like Regal Force provide straight card drawing without being specific on type, though it has requirements to meet. Planar Chaos was meant to be a set that delved into flavor if the color pie was envisioned slightly different, but not completely alien. Many of these cards fit flavor perfectly Damnation being one of them as you mentioned. Though it wasn't common for black to have boardwipes very often, or for so cheap. It was later allowed black to be a stronger board wipe color as it leeched in later in different cards like Life's Finale.
In conclusion I just feel like people try to seek counter arguments using whatever they can find. No argument is ironclad and that is why in my first post I said you should look at "current" flavor of the color pie, I stated out many magic designers, including Maro didn't agree with the hybrid restriction in EDH, but when you get cards like Spitting Image or Dominus of Fealty or Drain the Well or even Sygg, River Cutthroat . Many of these cards work just fine in one of their colors as a mono but not very well in mono of the other or are weird combinations of their color pies. Green getting clone of anything and a token? Blue gaining control of something and giving haste for a turn? Green being able to destroy a land? Blue drawing cards based on suffering? Some of these cards honestly feel like they should be straight multicolored not hybrid based on their abilities.
I wouldn't use any cards from Time Spiral block or outside of modern as examples of representing mechanics in colors. Modern represents about the last decade's worth of magic give or take a few months and about half of magic's lifespan. If anything is representative of the color pie and mechanics, it should exist there. Of course Time Spiral is the exception as it's a set that is based upon nostalgia and as such many cards will reference older ones. As such, they aren't examples of what is acceptable under the current philosophy. Thus I find your defense of blue direct damage and black rituals to be unsubstantial. Blue doesn't have direct damage anymore and black doesn't have fast mana. Black does still have slower and/or conditional mana though which I think you actually agree with.
Anyways, your examples here regarding hybrid cards are also flawed. For the most part, hybrid cards can easily fall within either of the two colors. It's disingenuous to use the few isolated exceptions as a mark against the rest of the cards, not that the ones you listed even fall under the exceptions. Let's go through each of them:
Spitting Image: Green regularly makes copies of creatures. Most of the time it happens with tokens. Doubling SeasonParallel Lives and the populate mechanic. But it also happens with self replicating creatures as well as finding more copies of a specific creature. Giant AdephageSprouting PhytohydraSpawnwritheEssence of the WildDoubling ChantNissa Revane Working with creatures is green's forte. Straight up making copies of creatures is only a small step further than what green does on a regular basis. Also keep in mind that rare cards are allowed to have more leeway and less rigidity than commons and uncommons.
Dominous of Fealty: Do you really have a problem with blue taking control of things temporarily? This limited duration is weaker than most blue control effects. If a color can do something, then why can't it do a weaker version of it? Granting haste is simply there to make the temporary control change actually useful in game play.
The problem with Dominous wasn't with Act of Treason part it was the haste part. Each of those cards I mentioned feel more like a blend of cards than they do.
Drain the Well: Was more the fact that Green typically doesn't get "just lands" Destroy non-creature permanent is a slightly different flavor. I indeed forget about Feast of Worms.
Syg, that honestly didn't prove a point at all. The flavor behind ALL those cards is reconnaissance and scouting. Probing the enemy for weakness. Flavor wise Life loss and damage dealt are different. Syg's ability doesn't involve reconnaissance in essence because it can trigger without any creature "scouting"
The Spitting Image: is another flavor fair. Clones and copies flavorwise are very different. Doubling Season isn't extra tokens not clones of other things. Same with ALL THE OTHER cards you mentioned, they are more about reproduction than they are mimics and clones. Furthermore none of those target your opponent's things.
The main set of Time Spiral didn't violate any color pies, older sets can NOT be dismissed so easily. They all fit withing flavor. Honestly I would appreciate if you follow this by flavor wise not "Oh this looks similar so you are WRONG". Straight up destroying a land is very different than destroying a non-creature permanent both mechanically and flavorfully. So are scout abilities.
Well, if you're insist on including older sets, then your points are even weaker.
Ice StormThermokarstWinter's Grasp are green and only destroy lands. Happy? Seriously though, if something can do A, B, and C, why do you have a problem if it only does A without B or C once in a while?
You are far over-dramatizing the flavor difference between loss of life and damage. It is true that they are different, but mechanically they play very similarly. Loss of life allows Syg to trigger in more situations, it can be an example of wotc wanting to push it's power level a bit. If you want to argue flavor, rogue and rogue behavior has a long tradition in blue. Syg's ability to draw cards comes from being a rogue. So what's wrong with Syg being in blue?
If I'm understanding your issue with spitting image correctly, you have no problems with the card being mechanically green, but you do have a problem with the card being flavorfully green right? In any case, green can createcopies.
I agree that most of the cards from time spiral don't violate the color pie, but your examples of direct damage in blue comes from the only 2 cards in over 10 years that have that mechanic. Those two cards are clearly nostalgic references to old cards. Direct damage is not part of blue's color pie, neither flavorfully nor mechanically. A decade is a long time, and the modern cardpool is even slightly over half of magic's lifespan. If something hasn't been done by wizards in a decade, then it's pretty safe to say that they don't think it belongs in that color anymore.
My group plays with a weird variation on hyrid cards.
We establish what the card can do. the first rule is that every ability must be ayable with just ONE color. So that right there kills azorius Guildmage from giving a mono blue deck stifle on a stick.
The second rue is if it would be overpowered. My R/B Goblin deck ran Wort the raidmother and Vexing Shusher (more goblins and give the deck some hope in a counter heavy group. So yea that is basically how we did it. one extra red to play spells and not have them countered.
My problem with syg is the exact reason that you blazingly and rather rudely declared me to be wrong in the first instance. If Syg did read "Whenever a opponent was dealt 2 or more damage by a creature you control or any creature" I wouldn't have much problem with this at all because it makes Syg honestly more like a spymaster being able to gather off Intel gathered by the enemies of his enemies or even his allies. Due to how he is worded now though it just feels wrong for it to be something that by the current hybrid philosophies would allow, if your opponent gets hit by a lightning bolt or has his life drained he gains Intel.
I wouldn't deny that Ice age set has some really freaky color pie, so did Mercadian Masques. I am not fan of them at all except for a few creatures here and there... Like Merieke. I never liked spells like Desert Twister or Ice Storm. Ice Storm sounds very red and feels very red.
I have nothing wrong with Green making copies of their creatures, Parallel Lives is a very interesting card and I like it. What I don't like is mono green making copies of your opponent's creatures to use against them. I feel like blues territory to make clones of anything. If someone reprinted a function reprint of Spitting Image and made it mono blue, no one would bat an eye.
I wasn't denying that the blue direct damage was old, and didn't have much sway in current settings baring odd hybrid examples like Crackling Trition, which does need red so in EDH flavor it is a Red/Blue card. My main point was that sets like Invasion-Mirridon were very solid color pie wise. Most of the examples I saw regarding the black rituals came from there. Magic is not a perfect game there will always be cards that don't make sense if you go solid flavor sense, at least in regards to our newer stricter color pie or sense of it. I was merely trying to argue on the point that perhaps how the rule for hybrids was envisioned. Its not perfect but it gives you a fair guideline to start.
As I initially mentioned I feel like a lot of the Lorywn-Shadowmoor hybrids were the problem only because they don't FEEL like they could be either color but most feel a combination. This isn't true for all of them. A good example is a card that my brother would LOVE to have in his red EDH if he could Everlasting Torment. No life gain, thats red, damage prevention thats red, wither? Wither was seen from many different sources and colors, mostly red and black but the idea that damage could not be heal tends to lead my mind to think poison and death enhanced magic, which for me feels very black.
What panda is saying, and you seem to be missing, is that hybrids are conceptually supposed to be "either/or". The whole reason hybrids exist is to create cards that could be played in either color. We aren't talking about what color the game sees them as, we all got over that a long time ago, the argument in favor of hybrids is one based on hybrids functionally being a case of "either/or".
Anyway, remedial argumentation aside, my thoughts on the subject can be summarized like so: If we're so afraid of allowing hybrids for color pie reasons, why should we allow Dark Ritual or Prodigal Sorcerer? Until the format starts regulating the color pie more stringently, I'll never have any respect for that argument.
1. I think what's conceptually intended is up for debate. MaRo has said that hybrid mana symbols are intended to be either/or, and that Commander views them as multicolour kinda grinds his gears. Of course, he says this after the caveat that he doesn't actually play Commander, ever.
2. The rules baggage is counterintuitive and terrible. Right now, the colour of a card is strictly a subset of its colour identity. If you're going to allow Hybrid symbols in your monocoloured decks, the colour of a card is no longer a subset of its colour identity. Is Spitting Image counterable by Red Elemental Blast? Even if you're playing Monogreen? Counterintuitive.
Nope, these rules are perfect the way they are right now. No reason to change except some folks just are greedy.
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**** this site. I'd delete this account but that doesn't seem to be an option. The mods here are ******* useless ********s who ban people for simple ass normal words. **** them and **** this site.
As for flavor: Most of the cards are flavorful in both colors, and I would find nothing wrong with having Erebos, God of the Dead unmake an enemy. ("You're not fit to be brought to my domain!")
While there are a few outliers, so are there in normal EDH. Green's draw is nothing like Harmonize. Things like Regal Force and Collective Unconscious or Fecundity. All of green's card draw is conditional on something. Sylvan Library honestly feels more black than green.
From a gameplay perspective, I feel it would help. Blue dominates because it's the only color with a bunch of effects, some of which could be shared a bit now. Not to mention it would allow a lot more options building decks that could allow for cool new things. While I doubt blue would be dethroned from #1, the effects would be cool. I mean, at the least a lot more decks could run vexing shusher, which would make things a bit easier against heavy control.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
From a gameplay perspective, I feel it would help. Blue dominates because it's the only color with a bunch of effects, some of which could be shared a bit now. Not to mention it would allow a lot more options building decks that could allow for cool new things. While I doubt blue would be dethroned from #1, the effects would be cool. I mean, at the least a lot more decks could run vexing shusher, which would make things a bit easier against heavy control.
One of the major gameplay aspects of EDH is limitation. You want to play card X, pick a commander that supports it. Flashback, alternate costs, hybrid, Phrexian mana its all tied to color identity. Sure the hybrid cards are meant to be either in "normal" magic, just like you are supposed to be able to reanimate green bombs without green mana in black.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
One of the major gameplay aspects of EDH is limitation. You want to play card X, pick a commander that supports it. Flashback, alternate costs, hybrid, Phrexian mana its all tied to color identity. Sure the hybrid cards are meant to be either in "normal" magic, just like you are supposed to be able to reanimate green bombs without green mana in black.
I think since extort is legal any reason for hybrid mana being forbid in a mono color deck is no longer valid. However a card like deathrite shaman has 2 mana symbols in his rules text one black and one green making him dual color. I am not sure that whole color idenity thing is necessary with the rule that prevents you from producing mana out side of your color identity and if you do its colorless mana except to prevent tutoring out of color cards into play.
If you look at Pontif of Blight. It has Extort (with reminder text), but it also says: "Other creatures you control have Extort." Not "Other creatures you control have 'Whenever you cast a spell, you may pay (W/B). If you...'"
Here's how EDH works: If you're casual: UG or UGx wins. If you're Competitive: UB or UBW or U. AKA Every top tier deck runs blue. Red and White are terrible outside of when paired with blue.
It's not even about winning. It's having fun. If you get your boardstate set up and someone casts Planar Cleansing. do you want to be able to cast counterspell? Blue can, but no one else can.
While we're not gaining counters, sharing the color pie love around a bit more could be really good for EDH.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
If there's a major issue with regards to EDH rules, this is it. Hybrid cards are NOT gold cards. They can be treated as a color as well as another color. What's the most unique thing about these cards are the set of abilities on them.
Hybrid cards have text abilities that two colors share. That's the most fundamental rule about their design.
In the case Overbeing of Myth, it's a Maro that draws a card during your upkeep. It's perfectly a green card, but also fits perfectly in blue's pie. Ditto for the majority of hybrid cards.
In other words, I don't think cards like the Shadowmoor/Eventide lieges or Boros Reckoner would wreck any EDH environment at all.
However, if we apply the RC's ruling of color identity, I could only think of Deathrite Shaman as failing the design test. This card should clearly be a gold card instead of a hybrid card due to its abilities.
What I'm saying is that perhaps the RC is skeptical of some of the hybrid designs, and made the call to exclude them as mono cards. I understand cards like Sygg, River Cutthroat and Waves of Aggression are highly contentious and debatable. It blurs the lines and bleeds too much into one color than qualifying as one and one. It's cards like those mentioned that feel like gold cards and SHOULD have two different color symbols than a hybrid one. We could blame this on Wizards instead of the RC for this one.
An elegant solution would be to widespread exclude them as mono cards, instead of selective restriction. Which is what the RC did. Although I don't think this will change for the foreseeable future, the only thing going against the RC's decision is that few of these hybrid cards are "mistakes".
BTW, phyrexian mana shouldn't even be in discussion. That's another topic/thread altogether. That said, No. It should stay within its designated color realm. Also, any alternate colored casting cost on cards should be considered as gold cards. No one in the right mind would play Lingering Souls without utilizing its flashback anyways. That's pretty dumb IMO.
Here's how EDH works: If you're casual: UG or UGx wins. If you're Competitive: UB or UBW or U. AKA Every top tier deck runs blue. Red and White are terrible outside of when paired with blue.
Thays not how my games go
It's not even about winning. It's having fun. If you get your boardstate set up and someone casts Planar Cleansing. do you want to be able to cast counterspell? Blue can, but no one else can.
While we're not gaining counters, sharing the color pie love around a bit more could be really good for EDH.
None of the hybrids ramp or counter, thats a moot point. All you talked about was counters and blue. Irrelevant.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
How about the OP just come out and say what card they really want to run in which of their decks? I find that really tends to be at the core of this discussion whenever someone starts it.
That said having a half white card, unmake lets say, in a mono black deck just strikes me as against the flavor of the format. It just looks and feels out of place to me.
OP already did, in the OP, pointing to Gleancrawler for a Gruul build. Running across Gleancrawler and Maro's earlier quoted post about how he thinks the current ruling grinds his gears got me to revitalize this debate. But, if you're not gonna read the OP properly, fine by me.
Now I do see a lot of solid arguments against the current rulings being changed, so while my original stance hasn't changed, I can see why people prefer things the way it is now. A shame, but understandable.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
From my point of view, I would let those hybrid color cards for multicolored decks. I find them too strong to use them just for mono-colored decks.
Anyway, I would allow phyrexian manacost cards to be used in any decks. Birthing Pod Is a great card, but if you lack green, just to play it and activate once cost you 4 life.
You could say that it's not much in EDH 40 HP, but it's still 10% of max HP. And for cards, which are outside your colors, you would pay life if you want to play them. That's the price.
I think it would be quite fun to see such cards in random decks, mainly those mono-colored. Birthing Pod in mono-white or mono-black? Yes please.
Still people would use tutors, some self damage maybe, so the life loss from phyrexian cards would be additional for the player, putting him very vulnerable, because of low life.
Honestly, Maro's opinion regarding anything in this format is about as useful as Paulie Shore's opinion on theoretical physics or Britney Spears' opinion on international diplomacy. He doesn't play or like the format, and it's clear from his statements that he doesn't understand it. I feel the same is largely true of individuals who keep bringing up this topic.
Hybrid mana was created to provide players lots of options in limited and in 60-card constructed formats, and the original "either/or" concept works just fine there, where flavor isn't even a consideration. EDH/Commander, on the other hand, is completely a flavor-centric format based on a core concept - color identity - that is all about flavor, and as someone has already noted, color identity serves both to define your deck and to impose a certain degree of limitation. If you want to play Unmake in your deck, build around an Orzhov or Esper general; mono-black, Rakdos and Grixis will have to make do with any number of other spot removal options, and if you really want that exile effect, they just printed Gild, so there you go.
Conceptually, I think hybrid mana should be allowed under Rule 3 based on its "either/or" design. I also don't think allowing this is going to upend the format in any way, the effects of these cards just aren't powerful enough to shake up the format that way. I'm sure they'd be used and there are some good hybrid cards, but their impact is not going to be that big.
However, aesthetically, I don't like how hybrid cards have their multiple colours at all times, so a mono-green deck could have cards in it that can be dealt with by Red Elemental Blast or Celestial Purge. That just feels wrong from an aesthetic perspective.
For me, I am totally unswayed by the idea that some hybrid cards are badly designed (they are too "A and B" instead of "A or B") and therefore should not be allowed given how many cards violate the current idea of the colour pie or even the past ideas of the colour pie both mechanically and flavour-wise. However, that said, I keep going back to the aesthetics of the cards and I can't really get past it.
I think to properly decide which side to go with, I would need to know just how important that aesthetic is compared to the deck building value that you get by allowing hybrid cards in decks that are not both their colours. How much does the general audience value the aesthetic of not having cards that are not wholly part of the commander's colour identity? How many hybrid cards are itching to be used in such decks? How much impact would they have on the fun of the format? These are the sorts of questions a company like WotC could study with their market research and likely would if they fully controlled the format, sadly, they don't, so we might never know the answers.
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Cheethorne
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Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I wouldn't use any cards from Time Spiral block or outside of modern as examples of representing mechanics in colors. Modern represents about the last decade's worth of magic give or take a few months and about half of magic's lifespan. If anything is representative of the color pie and mechanics, it should exist there. Of course Time Spiral is the exception as it's a set that is based upon nostalgia and as such many cards will reference older ones. As such, they aren't examples of what is acceptable under the current philosophy. Thus I find your defense of blue direct damage and black rituals to be unsubstantial. Blue doesn't have direct damage anymore and black doesn't have fast mana. Black does still have slower and/or conditional mana though which I think you actually agree with.
Anyways, your examples here regarding hybrid cards are also flawed. For the most part, hybrid cards can easily fall within either of the two colors. It's disingenuous to use the few isolated exceptions as a mark against the rest of the cards, not that the ones you listed even fall under the exceptions. Let's go through each of them:
Spitting Image: Green regularly makes copies of creatures. Most of the time it happens with tokens. Doubling Season Parallel Lives and the populate mechanic. But it also happens with self replicating creatures as well as finding more copies of a specific creature. Giant Adephage Sprouting Phytohydra Spawnwrithe Essence of the Wild Doubling Chant Nissa Revane Working with creatures is green's forte. Straight up making copies of creatures is only a small step further than what green does on a regular basis. Also keep in mind that rare cards are allowed to have more leeway and less rigidity than commons and uncommons.
Dominous of Fealty: Do you really have a problem with blue taking control of things temporarily? This limited duration is weaker than most blue control effects. If a color can do something, then why can't it do a weaker version of it? Granting haste is simply there to make the temporary control change actually useful in game play.
Drain the Well: You really want to contest that green can't destroy lands? Acidic Slime Creeping Mold Feast of Worms Mwonvuli Acid-Moss Rain of Thorns Reap and Sow Rolling Spoil Bramblecrush Mold Shambler Rootgrapple Sylvan Primordial Terastodon Woodfall Primus
Syg, River Cutthroat: Yes, because blue drawing cards from damage hasn't happened. Nope. Never. Not even once.
Yes, the hybrid cards were conceived as "either" colour, but in practice they are both. A monowhite deck cannot target Chameleon Colossus with Unmake. I can still counter Spitting Image with Red Elemental Blast.
Personally, I don't think it's worth the headache. I'm glad that I can look at someone's general and get a good idea of what that player's going to use. I'd rather be surprised by an innovative use of cards within a general's colours than someone who puts Pact of Negation and Platinum Angel in their deck.
It's posts like these that make me think any kind of rules change would be a nightmare, simply due to a lack of understanding by the general populace. NO ONE is arguing that hybrid cards aren't both of their colors. NO ONE is arguing that they're useable in decks of either color under the current rules. Pact of Negation isn't even a hybrid card, much less a multicolored one! The 'hybrid mana debate' regards whether the rules should be changed to accomodate the uniqueness of hybrid mana. If you can't see that hybrid symbols are in any way different than regular ones, that just proves my point.
From a functional standpoint, I think it can be argued either way. Yes, hybrid mana does allow more decks to cast the card than the current rules allow. That would seem to argue that Chainer should be allowed to cast Demigod of Revenge (if for whatever reason he wants to in EDH). However, as Mercury01 says, you can't Unmake something with protection from black. Hybrid cards are still multicolor cards at the end of the day. Personal opinion is that being multicolor trumps casteability and I'm glad the current rules reflect this.
The problem with Dominous wasn't with Act of Treason part it was the haste part. Each of those cards I mentioned feel more like a blend of cards than they do.
Drain the Well: Was more the fact that Green typically doesn't get "just lands" Destroy non-creature permanent is a slightly different flavor. I indeed forget about Feast of Worms.
Syg, that honestly didn't prove a point at all. The flavor behind ALL those cards is reconnaissance and scouting. Probing the enemy for weakness. Flavor wise Life loss and damage dealt are different. Syg's ability doesn't involve reconnaissance in essence because it can trigger without any creature "scouting"
The Spitting Image: is another flavor fair. Clones and copies flavorwise are very different. Doubling Season isn't extra tokens not clones of other things. Same with ALL THE OTHER cards you mentioned, they are more about reproduction than they are mimics and clones. Furthermore none of those target your opponent's things.
The main set of Time Spiral didn't violate any color pies, older sets can NOT be dismissed so easily. They all fit withing flavor. Honestly I would appreciate if you follow this by flavor wise not "Oh this looks similar so you are WRONG". Straight up destroying a land is very different than destroying a non-creature permanent both mechanically and flavorfully. So are scout abilities.
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, Faith & Wrath (Control)
Jarad, Life & Death (Reanimator)
Merieke, Seduction & Obedience (Control/Steals)
Intet, Dreamworld (Aggro/Control)
Rith, Predators (Aggro)
That said having a half white card, unmake lets say, in a mono black deck just strikes me as against the flavor of the format. It just looks and feels out of place to me.
Well, if you're insist on including older sets, then your points are even weaker.
Magus of the Unseen Overtaker Ray of Command Reins of Power all give haste. Do you still have a problem with Dominus now?
Ice Storm Thermokarst Winter's Grasp are green and only destroy lands. Happy? Seriously though, if something can do A, B, and C, why do you have a problem if it only does A without B or C once in a while?
You are far over-dramatizing the flavor difference between loss of life and damage. It is true that they are different, but mechanically they play very similarly. Loss of life allows Syg to trigger in more situations, it can be an example of wotc wanting to push it's power level a bit. If you want to argue flavor, rogue and rogue behavior has a long tradition in blue. Syg's ability to draw cards comes from being a rogue. So what's wrong with Syg being in blue?
If I'm understanding your issue with spitting image correctly, you have no problems with the card being mechanically green, but you do have a problem with the card being flavorfully green right? In any case, green can create copies.
I agree that most of the cards from time spiral don't violate the color pie, but your examples of direct damage in blue comes from the only 2 cards in over 10 years that have that mechanic. Those two cards are clearly nostalgic references to old cards. Direct damage is not part of blue's color pie, neither flavorfully nor mechanically. A decade is a long time, and the modern cardpool is even slightly over half of magic's lifespan. If something hasn't been done by wizards in a decade, then it's pretty safe to say that they don't think it belongs in that color anymore.
We establish what the card can do. the first rule is that every ability must be ayable with just ONE color. So that right there kills azorius Guildmage from giving a mono blue deck stifle on a stick.
The second rue is if it would be overpowered. My R/B Goblin deck ran Wort the raidmother and Vexing Shusher (more goblins and give the deck some hope in a counter heavy group. So yea that is basically how we did it. one extra red to play spells and not have them countered.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I wouldn't deny that Ice age set has some really freaky color pie, so did Mercadian Masques. I am not fan of them at all except for a few creatures here and there... Like Merieke. I never liked spells like Desert Twister or Ice Storm. Ice Storm sounds very red and feels very red.
I have nothing wrong with Green making copies of their creatures, Parallel Lives is a very interesting card and I like it. What I don't like is mono green making copies of your opponent's creatures to use against them. I feel like blues territory to make clones of anything. If someone reprinted a function reprint of Spitting Image and made it mono blue, no one would bat an eye.
I wasn't denying that the blue direct damage was old, and didn't have much sway in current settings baring odd hybrid examples like Crackling Trition, which does need red so in EDH flavor it is a Red/Blue card. My main point was that sets like Invasion-Mirridon were very solid color pie wise. Most of the examples I saw regarding the black rituals came from there. Magic is not a perfect game there will always be cards that don't make sense if you go solid flavor sense, at least in regards to our newer stricter color pie or sense of it. I was merely trying to argue on the point that perhaps how the rule for hybrids was envisioned. Its not perfect but it gives you a fair guideline to start.
As I initially mentioned I feel like a lot of the Lorywn-Shadowmoor hybrids were the problem only because they don't FEEL like they could be either color but most feel a combination. This isn't true for all of them. A good example is a card that my brother would LOVE to have in his red EDH if he could Everlasting Torment. No life gain, thats red, damage prevention thats red, wither? Wither was seen from many different sources and colors, mostly red and black but the idea that damage could not be heal tends to lead my mind to think poison and death enhanced magic, which for me feels very black.
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, Faith & Wrath (Control)
Jarad, Life & Death (Reanimator)
Merieke, Seduction & Obedience (Control/Steals)
Intet, Dreamworld (Aggro/Control)
Rith, Predators (Aggro)
1. I think what's conceptually intended is up for debate. MaRo has said that hybrid mana symbols are intended to be either/or, and that Commander views them as multicolour kinda grinds his gears. Of course, he says this after the caveat that he doesn't actually play Commander, ever.
2. The rules baggage is counterintuitive and terrible. Right now, the colour of a card is strictly a subset of its colour identity. If you're going to allow Hybrid symbols in your monocoloured decks, the colour of a card is no longer a subset of its colour identity. Is Spitting Image counterable by Red Elemental Blast? Even if you're playing Monogreen? Counterintuitive.
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
While there are a few outliers, so are there in normal EDH. Green's draw is nothing like Harmonize. Things like Regal Force and Collective Unconscious or Fecundity. All of green's card draw is conditional on something. Sylvan Library honestly feels more black than green.
From a gameplay perspective, I feel it would help. Blue dominates because it's the only color with a bunch of effects, some of which could be shared a bit now. Not to mention it would allow a lot more options building decks that could allow for cool new things. While I doubt blue would be dethroned from #1, the effects would be cool. I mean, at the least a lot more decks could run vexing shusher, which would make things a bit easier against heavy control.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
That's not how EDH should work.
This.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
The difference is that you can write Tithe Drinker as:
OR
There is no other way you can write Deathrite Shaman
If you look at Pontif of Blight. It has Extort (with reminder text), but it also says: "Other creatures you control have Extort." Not "Other creatures you control have 'Whenever you cast a spell, you may pay (W/B). If you...'"
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
It's not even about winning. It's having fun. If you get your boardstate set up and someone casts Planar Cleansing. do you want to be able to cast counterspell? Blue can, but no one else can.
While we're not gaining counters, sharing the color pie love around a bit more could be really good for EDH.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Hybrid cards have text abilities that two colors share. That's the most fundamental rule about their design.
In the case Overbeing of Myth, it's a Maro that draws a card during your upkeep. It's perfectly a green card, but also fits perfectly in blue's pie. Ditto for the majority of hybrid cards.
In other words, I don't think cards like the Shadowmoor/Eventide lieges or Boros Reckoner would wreck any EDH environment at all.
However, if we apply the RC's ruling of color identity, I could only think of Deathrite Shaman as failing the design test. This card should clearly be a gold card instead of a hybrid card due to its abilities.
What I'm saying is that perhaps the RC is skeptical of some of the hybrid designs, and made the call to exclude them as mono cards. I understand cards like Sygg, River Cutthroat and Waves of Aggression are highly contentious and debatable. It blurs the lines and bleeds too much into one color than qualifying as one and one. It's cards like those mentioned that feel like gold cards and SHOULD have two different color symbols than a hybrid one. We could blame this on Wizards instead of the RC for this one.
An elegant solution would be to widespread exclude them as mono cards, instead of selective restriction. Which is what the RC did. Although I don't think this will change for the foreseeable future, the only thing going against the RC's decision is that few of these hybrid cards are "mistakes".
I would love Overbeing of Myth or Deus of Calamity in my mono-green deck, but I would not appreciate cards like Wave of Aggression in mono-white.
BTW, phyrexian mana shouldn't even be in discussion. That's another topic/thread altogether. That said, No. It should stay within its designated color realm. Also, any alternate colored casting cost on cards should be considered as gold cards. No one in the right mind would play Lingering Souls without utilizing its flashback anyways. That's pretty dumb IMO.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
None of the hybrids ramp or counter, thats a moot point. All you talked about was counters and blue. Irrelevant.
OP already did, in the OP, pointing to Gleancrawler for a Gruul build. Running across Gleancrawler and Maro's earlier quoted post about how he thinks the current ruling grinds his gears got me to revitalize this debate. But, if you're not gonna read the OP properly, fine by me.
Now I do see a lot of solid arguments against the current rulings being changed, so while my original stance hasn't changed, I can see why people prefer things the way it is now. A shame, but understandable.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Anyway, I would allow phyrexian manacost cards to be used in any decks. Birthing Pod Is a great card, but if you lack green, just to play it and activate once cost you 4 life.
You could say that it's not much in EDH 40 HP, but it's still 10% of max HP. And for cards, which are outside your colors, you would pay life if you want to play them. That's the price.
I think it would be quite fun to see such cards in random decks, mainly those mono-colored. Birthing Pod in mono-white or mono-black? Yes please.
Still people would use tutors, some self damage maybe, so the life loss from phyrexian cards would be additional for the player, putting him very vulnerable, because of low life.
Hybrid mana was created to provide players lots of options in limited and in 60-card constructed formats, and the original "either/or" concept works just fine there, where flavor isn't even a consideration. EDH/Commander, on the other hand, is completely a flavor-centric format based on a core concept - color identity - that is all about flavor, and as someone has already noted, color identity serves both to define your deck and to impose a certain degree of limitation. If you want to play Unmake in your deck, build around an Orzhov or Esper general; mono-black, Rakdos and Grixis will have to make do with any number of other spot removal options, and if you really want that exile effect, they just printed Gild, so there you go.
However, aesthetically, I don't like how hybrid cards have their multiple colours at all times, so a mono-green deck could have cards in it that can be dealt with by Red Elemental Blast or Celestial Purge. That just feels wrong from an aesthetic perspective.
For me, I am totally unswayed by the idea that some hybrid cards are badly designed (they are too "A and B" instead of "A or B") and therefore should not be allowed given how many cards violate the current idea of the colour pie or even the past ideas of the colour pie both mechanically and flavour-wise. However, that said, I keep going back to the aesthetics of the cards and I can't really get past it.
I think to properly decide which side to go with, I would need to know just how important that aesthetic is compared to the deck building value that you get by allowing hybrid cards in decks that are not both their colours. How much does the general audience value the aesthetic of not having cards that are not wholly part of the commander's colour identity? How many hybrid cards are itching to be used in such decks? How much impact would they have on the fun of the format? These are the sorts of questions a company like WotC could study with their market research and likely would if they fully controlled the format, sadly, they don't, so we might never know the answers.