I was surprised this last wednesday when attending our store's casual Magic/EDH night to find a table with a Sylvan Primordial on the field. It's owner was discussing with his partner (2HG game) when the best time to flicker it would be, while their opponents groaned about the impending effects.
I asked the obvious question, "Do you guys know they banned SP?" To which, incredibly, the response was, "Not on the Wizards official site. If it's not on their site we don't have to worry about it."
My friend and I both pulled out phones and began searching for corroboration. Our store has adhered to the mtgcommander banlist since inception (of course Wizards always had theirs differing to it, so it was never an issue), and we have no house rules allowing or disallowing anything special. The closest we could come was finding that Deathrite Shaman still states that its legal in Modern in Gatherer, and that we should be going with the RC here because obviously Wizards hasn't updated yet. I'm still fairly certain the player owning the SP and his teammate would prefer to ignore this until they see it on the Wizards site.
Has anyone else met resistance to the banning of SP because of the website? Has this happened before with other bannings? What are some ways you've convinced these players to remove the card?
Please note, I'm not asking how we should deal with it at our store. We'll handle it. I would just like toknow if people are having trouble letting go of the big green bomb.
There is a person in our edh group who point blank refuses to acknowledge the ban. Its his favorite card and he doesnt want to take it out of any of his edh decks. Apparently he built one designed to flicker it as many times as possible. Im glad it got banned for that exact reason. Also why I refuse to play if he's in the game.
People always have a hard time letting go of their favorite abusable things, luckily there's only one person at my LGS that actually is upset about it. To be fair, we have a "battlecruiser" meta where we play things as intended and very rarely have anything abused to the point of nauseum.
But as far as "stubbornness" to let go, no. Sure, we didn't abuse it and it got banned, darn. No point in dragging feet about Wizards not updating their site as a scapegoat for using the card.
Has anyone else noticed that its usually those who abused it that resist change?
If he "doesn't want to let it go", the only thing you can do is build a deck designed to blink, cheat and utilize it as early and often, over and over again until he finally sees the problem. Eventually, he will get tired of the "t2 Reanimate kill your land, t3 Cloudshift kill your land again". Naitch, you would be best to do this in a Karador, Ghost Chieftain deck.
I wouldn't say the players in question were whining as much as they were being selectively ignorant. One attempted to tell me that Wizards took over the format when they began calling it Commander, so their banlist is official.
I guess if you want to continue playing with those types of people, you have to (politely?) inform them that they are wrong. The second link I used is proof, I suppose, but it's up to you to be convincing enough. I'm sure you'll have little trouble handling it, but I doubt there are too many people who have the same issues.
Your allowed to ignore bans if you don't like them and your allowed to choose not to play with them I see no issue .
Even mtgcommander says the banlist is a guideline but that you should ask other players if they mind you using cards they've banned. If you agree to play with someone and they say nothing about banned cards and then drop a few midgame, there will likely be an issue.
Yeah I agree about how its those players that enjoyed abusing the card that have trouble letting go as it has been a very successful way to win for them. Surprise, now these players actually have to work harder to win by using other strategies!
If a player doesn't agree with the banlist then they should agree that anything goes at that point. Time to start using the original Primetime again, along with other friendly cards like Tolarian Academy and Recurring Nightmare! There is a reason why these cards were chosen to be banned in the first place..
Seriously, if someone is blowing up a land on turn 4 or later, it's not that big of a deal. The moral of the story is: play more counters, LD of your own, or LOWER YOUR CURVE. Don't whine until a harmless card gets banned because you want to be a crap deckbuilder.
Calling other users names such as 'whiny Timmy *****es' is not allowed on MTG Salvation and is considered trolling. Warning for trolling - BlackVise
Seriously, if someone is blowing up a land on turn 4 or later, it's not that big of a deal. The moral of the story is: play more counters, LD of your own, or LOWER YOUR CURVE. Don't whine until a harmless card gets banned because you want to be a crap deckbuilder.
I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at here but my problem is not with the card itself but with people who get so attached to one that they're willing to ignore or defy the rules committee to keep it. Mine is now in a binder because I would prefer to uphold the rules of a format I enjoy rather than step on everyone's toes. I don't particularily agree with the ban, but I respect the RC enough to adhere to it, especially since my local group has been so good about everything so far. We don't have any house-rules and I'd like to keep it that way.
Seriously, if someone is blowing up a land on turn 4 or later, it's not that big of a deal. The moral of the story is: play more counters, LD of your own, or LOWER YOUR CURVE. Don't whine until a harmless card gets banned because you want to be a crap deckbuilder.
The card was far from harmless, but there is a ban-list thread for you to cry about its banning.
On-topic: If they still choose to run him, make a Deveri & Time Vault deck. Both cards I am sure would be fine in their meta
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Your allowed to ignore bans if you don't like them and your allowed to choose not to play with them I see no issue .
Even mtgcommander says the banlist is a guideline but that you should ask other players if they mind you using cards they've banned. If you agree to play with someone and they say nothing about banned cards and then drop a few midgame, there will likely be an issue.
Meh depends I would agree something should be said but in general it's majority rules and the what side they banlist is on rarely matters. For instance if I want to join your PG and you banned demonic tutor I can choose to play by your rules or not play I can't force your pg to follow a banlist.
The parley-er banlist are merely guidelines. There are groups that will ignore it. I just don't play with those groups because I tried playing with someone that ignored the ban on Griselbrand and that wasn't a pretty experience let me tell you.
The question here is more of how does a group deal with changes to cards/rules in the format, yes?
I suppose that as long as everyone agrees on the rules beforehand, there should be no problem. If everyone in the group is fine with playing with Slyvan Primordial, then that's the decision. If even one person takes issue with playing with or against a card that's been banned, then the group should respect that player's position. Ultimately, EDH is about playing with people, not just playing the cards you like. That's why it's a "social" format.
My playgroup had a similar experience as this, but it wasn't about playing a banned card. We all agreed to ignore the new legendary/planeswalker rule when we play together (usually at someone's house, not at game stores). Doing this kept the format interesting for us, which is ultimately the point of Magic. Clearly, we would never defy the official rules at tournaments or anything; we just did what we felt would be more fun.
Obviously, defying a suggested banlist and defying official rules are different, but the message to take away is the same: everyone should agree about how to handle major changes.
I have seen a lot of players resist this ban much more than others OP, and it didn't help that Wizards was remarkably slow to update their website.
In regards to your original story; The thing about using cards that are on the banned list at a LGS is that many other players you could encounter cut that card to adhere to the rules, and when an opponent uses a banned card against strangers (or anyone who doesnt OK its use), its basically cheating. It would be like bringing Black Lotus to a modern tournament; there's a reason its not legal.
Sidenote, I don't play green in EDH, and even I sort of think the banned was a little hasty. Though that's neither here nor their.
The problem isn't ignoring the ban list, which isn't THAT big of a deal, is the fact that the other players had no idea that the card was there. Sure, it's kinda new so you can give some people a quick show, but if they know and are basically trying to scum the rules, then it's not cool.
There's trying to make house rules and bans, and then there's not following the rules. You want a fun game where everyone is enjoying themselves to some degree? Talk. You think that SP ban was unneeded? Ask the other people if they think so too first before playing with it.
I have seen a lot of players resist this ban much more than others OP, and it didn't help that Wizards was remarkably slow to update their website.
In regards to your original story; The thing about using cards that are on the banned list at a LGS is that many other players you could encounter cut that card to adhere to the rules, and when an opponent uses a banned card against strangers (or anyone who doesnt OK its use), its basically cheating. It would be like bringing Black Lotus to a modern tournament; there's a reason its not legal.
Sidenote, I don't play green in EDH, and even I sort of think the banned was a little hasty. Though that's neither here nor their.
A few people in my play group are so so on the ban and kinda dragging their feet on replacing Primordial, but they'll come around.
This was the general consensus I've noticed with Primeval Titan. People were upset and slow to move on, but after a while they could see a noticeable improvement.
I haven't experienced it in any of my playgroups, but just from reading comments online, the amount of people outright denying the existence of the ban just because Wizards' website was slow to update is mind boggling. Do they think that there are two separate ban lists that are just surprisingly similar? Isn't there a link to the RC's website right on the Wizards page?
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I asked the obvious question, "Do you guys know they banned SP?" To which, incredibly, the response was, "Not on the Wizards official site. If it's not on their site we don't have to worry about it."
My friend and I both pulled out phones and began searching for corroboration. Our store has adhered to the mtgcommander banlist since inception (of course Wizards always had theirs differing to it, so it was never an issue), and we have no house rules allowing or disallowing anything special. The closest we could come was finding that Deathrite Shaman still states that its legal in Modern in Gatherer, and that we should be going with the RC here because obviously Wizards hasn't updated yet. I'm still fairly certain the player owning the SP and his teammate would prefer to ignore this until they see it on the Wizards site.
Has anyone else met resistance to the banning of SP because of the website? Has this happened before with other bannings? What are some ways you've convinced these players to remove the card?
Please note, I'm not asking how we should deal with it at our store. We'll handle it. I would just like toknow if people are having trouble letting go of the big green bomb.
But as far as "stubbornness" to let go, no. Sure, we didn't abuse it and it got banned, darn. No point in dragging feet about Wizards not updating their site as a scapegoat for using the card.
Has anyone else noticed that its usually those who abused it that resist change?
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http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic/rules/100cardsingleton-commander
I wouldn't say the players in question were whining as much as they were being selectively ignorant. One attempted to tell me that Wizards took over the format when they began calling it Commander, so their banlist is official.
https://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic/rules/100cardsingleton-commander
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DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Even mtgcommander says the banlist is a guideline but that you should ask other players if they mind you using cards they've banned. If you agree to play with someone and they say nothing about banned cards and then drop a few midgame, there will likely be an issue.
Edit: seems like it still meeds the update, but at least the list is correct.
If a player doesn't agree with the banlist then they should agree that anything goes at that point. Time to start using the original Primetime again, along with other friendly cards like Tolarian Academy and Recurring Nightmare! There is a reason why these cards were chosen to be banned in the first place..
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Seriously, if someone is blowing up a land on turn 4 or later, it's not that big of a deal. The moral of the story is: play more counters, LD of your own, or LOWER YOUR CURVE. Don't whine until a harmless card gets banned because you want to be a crap deckbuilder.
Calling other users names such as 'whiny Timmy *****es' is not allowed on MTG Salvation and is considered trolling. Warning for trolling - BlackVise
I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at here but my problem is not with the card itself but with people who get so attached to one that they're willing to ignore or defy the rules committee to keep it. Mine is now in a binder because I would prefer to uphold the rules of a format I enjoy rather than step on everyone's toes. I don't particularily agree with the ban, but I respect the RC enough to adhere to it, especially since my local group has been so good about everything so far. We don't have any house-rules and I'd like to keep it that way.
On-topic: If they still choose to run him, make a Deveri & Time Vault deck. Both cards I am sure would be fine in their meta
Meh depends I would agree something should be said but in general it's majority rules and the what side they banlist is on rarely matters. For instance if I want to join your PG and you banned demonic tutor I can choose to play by your rules or not play I can't force your pg to follow a banlist.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I suppose that as long as everyone agrees on the rules beforehand, there should be no problem. If everyone in the group is fine with playing with Slyvan Primordial, then that's the decision. If even one person takes issue with playing with or against a card that's been banned, then the group should respect that player's position. Ultimately, EDH is about playing with people, not just playing the cards you like. That's why it's a "social" format.
My playgroup had a similar experience as this, but it wasn't about playing a banned card. We all agreed to ignore the new legendary/planeswalker rule when we play together (usually at someone's house, not at game stores). Doing this kept the format interesting for us, which is ultimately the point of Magic. Clearly, we would never defy the official rules at tournaments or anything; we just did what we felt would be more fun.
Obviously, defying a suggested banlist and defying official rules are different, but the message to take away is the same: everyone should agree about how to handle major changes.
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In regards to your original story; The thing about using cards that are on the banned list at a LGS is that many other players you could encounter cut that card to adhere to the rules, and when an opponent uses a banned card against strangers (or anyone who doesnt OK its use), its basically cheating. It would be like bringing Black Lotus to a modern tournament; there's a reason its not legal.
Sidenote, I don't play green in EDH, and even I sort of think the banned was a little hasty. Though that's neither here nor their.
There's trying to make house rules and bans, and then there's not following the rules. You want a fun game where everyone is enjoying themselves to some degree? Talk. You think that SP ban was unneeded? Ask the other people if they think so too first before playing with it.
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People resisted Primeval Titan's ban as well.
This was the general consensus I've noticed with Primeval Titan. People were upset and slow to move on, but after a while they could see a noticeable improvement.
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