So I've been playing Damia, Sage of Stone since the day the first commander products were released. It's gone through many designs. From Aggro infect to Stax. But my latest design has been my favorite. (Not updated the list in my sig yet. So it is different from that) The problem? The green is just for ramp and durdles. The deck is really slow but super strong when I get my engines going. The problem is getting them to run. I rarely cast Damia unless the game goes really long.
I've been debating about cutting the green for a more proactive general. And my eyes drift towards Wydwen, the Biting Gale. My deck is already filled with instants. So getting to Flash in my General and have a legitimate Voltron plan with my control build seems better than trying to work in a third color. So what are your opinions? Should I cut the green and become more focused, or keep the flexibility?
I love Wydwen voltron. There are a bunch of really cheap to equip equipments to put her into a decent power like O-Naginata and Tenza, Godo's Maul (thank you kamigawa xD). I also like to throw in Elbrus, the Binding Blade because it's funny, but it's also done a lot of work for me.
Green offers more options in term of Spot removal, recursion, land recursion via Life from the Loam, and your only form of enchantment/artifact removal. The bad part is dilutes your land base.
Wydwen can run Back to Basics no problem, but Damia gets destroyed by a blue deck with Back to Basics and counter-magic to destroy it. Their only form of removal for is Abrupt Decay unless you tap out at the wrong time.
The only Equipment you would need to run for her is Jitte, Sword of X and Y. X/Y = Most relevant protection in your meta.
Actually, if you the artifact route, Cranial Plating could be your way to victory. Bonesplitter might be another cheap, but effective alternative. It can be tutor'd by Trinket Mage, and +2/+0 is nothing to laugh about.
Like some have mentioned, green gives a LOT to an EDH deck (recursion, lands, ramp, artifact/enchantment destruction, etc) but if you're utilizing those anyway (meta doesnt need it or you just can play without) then theres no reason to be in that color in my opinion.
If you're ever playing a deck and don't use a color at all...its prolly time to just cut the color in my opinion.
Like some have mentioned, green gives a LOT to an EDH deck (recursion, lands, ramp, artifact/enchantment destruction, etc) but if you're utilizing those anyway (meta doesnt need it or you just can play without) then theres no reason to be in that color in my opinion.
If you're ever playing a deck and don't use a color at all...its prolly time to just cut the color in my opinion.
Depend on how much you like to **** with peoples mind
Wydwen allows you to go "I don't have a counter right now, but I'm going to play this an fetch one".
Also, Wydwen is NOT a control deck. It's a pure tempo deck, walking the fine line of killing them while barely surviving.
But she's tons of fun to play imho
(I'm playing Wydwen, Pike, Sword Fire/Ice + Feast/Fam, trinklet mage package, counter/draw/edit/bounce. Bounce is of utmost important to deal with some nasty permanents)
My only concern is to how viable a wydwen tempo deck is at playing a multiplayer game. Seems like it would be much harder to pull off.
I ran a Wydwen, the Biting Gale deck for years, until I moved away from my awesome EDH playgroup and cannibalized it for various Legacy decks, and it was by far my favorite EDH deck I've ever built. I actually made the entire thing instant speed with the sole exception of a Runechanter's Pike, which was just too good not to include, since it would turn Wydwen, the Biting Gale into a single hit kill after only a few turns.
Damia is attractive for decks that burn their hand put quickly. It you're not taking advantage of that then absolutely use wydwen. Wydwen is one of my favorite commanders and I hope to make a list for her before long, I just haven't decided on a theme for her.
One other option you may consider is Dralnu, Lich Lord his draw back seems hefty but it really isn't. I don't know your meta but noncombat damage is pretty rare as far as I can tell, save for a few things like Blasphemous Act. Also, I'd your running a Stax package I'm sure you have token generators which help yo offset Dralnu from harm also. He offers insane card advantage and is a value engine you have to use to really see how amazing he is.
Min, buddy. Tempo/XYZ variant works in EDH. All my decks are tempo, and it works just fine.
In Suicide-Tempo/Aggro-Stax/Etc; you are allowed to play some French EDH cards like Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Duress, Hymn to Tourach, Mind Twist, and Liliana of the Veil with all your normal multi-player cards. If it's blue, you can still run Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora.
The only difference is you have to run cheap little utility creatures like Bonded Fetch, Braisd, Dark Confidant, Vendilion Clique, Cabal Minion, [Card[Shadowmage Infiltrator[/Card] - your goal is to out value the table through counter-magic, well timed wraths, discard, and for me, a perfectly placed Smokestack after a Armageddon/Jokulhaups.
At least in blue/black, you get Trinket Mage to maximize your utility package.
In the end, Wydwen would play much like Delver in Legacy/Modern/Standard with a lot more than 8 creatures.
@Damia: She's terrible if you plan on blowing through your hand. You know what happens if you do that against me? I use one of many spot removal, so you are stuck with 7 mana into top deck mode against a blue/black deck with 7 cars + slightly less mana.
The only time I've seen a strategy for Damia to empty your hand is when you have Leyline of Anticipation and Lion's Eye Diamond. You will always know when to cast LED, crack it, cast Damia and most likely get the 7 cards.
Depend on how much you like to **** with peoples mind
Wydwen allows you to go "I don't have a counter right now, but I'm going to play this an fetch one".
Also, Wydwen is NOT a control deck. It's a pure tempo deck, walking the fine line of killing them while barely surviving.
But she's tons of fun to play imho
(I'm playing Wydwen, Pike, Sword Fire/Ice + Feast/Fam, trinklet mage package, counter/draw/edit/bounce. Bounce is of utmost important to deal with some nasty permanents)
That's kind of how my Damia was running as a tempo list with green to ramp through tempo. So do you have a list I could spy on? Get some ideas?
I ran a Wydwen, the Biting Gale deck for years, until I moved away from my awesome EDH playgroup and cannibalized it for various Legacy decks, and it was by far my favorite EDH deck I've ever built. I actually made the entire thing instant speed with the sole exception of a Runechanter's Pike, which was just too good not to include, since it would turn Wydwen, the Biting Gale into a single hit kill after only a few turns.
Now that sounds like fun. I love playing on my opponents turns. Do you think I could sneak a peek at your list too?
Min, buddy. Tempo/XYZ variant works in EDH. All my decks are tempo, and it works just fine.
In Suicide-Tempo/Aggro-Stax/Etc; you are allowed to play some French EDH cards like Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Duress, Hymn to Tourach, Mind Twist, and Liliana of the Veil with all your normal multi-player cards. If it's blue, you can still run Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora.
The only difference is you have to run cheap little utility creatures like Bonded Fetch, Braisd, Dark Confidant, Vendilion Clique, Cabal Minion, [Card[Shadowmage Infiltrator[/Card] - your goal is to out value the table through counter-magic, well timed wraths, discard, and for me, a perfectly placed Smokestack after a Armageddon/Jokulhaups.
At least in blue/black, you get Trinket Mage to maximize your utility package.
In the end, Wydwen would play much like Delver in Legacy/Modern/Standard with a lot more than 8 creatures.
@Damia: She's terrible if you plan on blowing through your hand. You know what happens if you do that against me? I use one of many spot removal, so you are stuck with 7 mana into top deck mode against a blue/black deck with 7 cars + slightly less mana.
The only time I've seen a strategy for Damia to empty your hand is when you have Leyline of Anticipation and Lion's Eye Diamond. You will always know when to cast LED, crack it, cast Damia and most likely get the 7 cards.
My Damia list was a tempo list that turned into a tempo-ish list with a few stax elements. (I had to put The Abyss somewhere. The green was a blast but there was always a disjoint and a struggle between the colors as much as I loved the flexibility.
Here's the thread I made, my list and a few thoughts about the deck are there. Tapped out has my final list I ended up with, but it's like 97% the same. I will say that adding Venser and Riptide Laboratory was great. Being able to drop Venser on the last end step before my turn to bounce something annoying, then stick him back into my hand BEFORE even starting my turn was great. The same with Snapcaster Mage. End step before my turn, I drop Snapcaster, recast something like Fact or Fiction, return Snappy to my hand, THEN start my turn was always fun. Snapcastering back an Evacuation was some great tech also.
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UOmnidurdle
Modern
WBReanimartyr
EDH
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I've been debating about cutting the green for a more proactive general. And my eyes drift towards Wydwen, the Biting Gale. My deck is already filled with instants. So getting to Flash in my General and have a legitimate Voltron plan with my control build seems better than trying to work in a third color. So what are your opinions? Should I cut the green and become more focused, or keep the flexibility?
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
Wydwen can run Back to Basics no problem, but Damia gets destroyed by a blue deck with Back to Basics and counter-magic to destroy it. Their only form of removal for is Abrupt Decay unless you tap out at the wrong time.
The only Equipment you would need to run for her is Jitte, Sword of X and Y. X/Y = Most relevant protection in your meta.
Actually, if you the artifact route, Cranial Plating could be your way to victory.
Bonesplitter might be another cheap, but effective alternative. It can be tutor'd by Trinket Mage, and +2/+0 is nothing to laugh about.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
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If you're ever playing a deck and don't use a color at all...its prolly time to just cut the color in my opinion.
Wanted Card List: (PM me)
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Ravages of War
1 Swords to Plowshares (Judge)
1 Land Tax (Judge)
U
1 Mana Vortex
B
1 Desolation Angel (Foil)
1 Guardian Beast
1 Contamination
R
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
G
1 Food Chain
WUBRG
1 Rohgahh of Kher Keep
X
1 Charcoal Diamond (Foil)
1 Fellwar Stone (Foil)
T
1 Temple Garden (Foil)
3 Mutavault
1 Kor Haven
Out side of Damia I was playing it for Farseek, Nature's Lore, and Three Visits. Which I can cut for Dimir Signet, Talisman of Dominance, and Everflowing Chalice. Exploration for a Mox Diamond. The things I've really lost are Alchemist's Refuge, Prophet of Kruphix, Scavenging Ooze, Pernicious Deed, Maelstrom Pulse, Eternal Witness, Regrowth, and Life from the Loam. But that was all my green.:-/
And in return I gained a more focused game plan with more reactive threats.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
My only concern is to how viable a wydwen tempo deck is at playing a multiplayer game. Seems like it would be much harder to pull off.
Wanted Card List: (PM me)
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Ravages of War
1 Swords to Plowshares (Judge)
1 Land Tax (Judge)
U
1 Mana Vortex
B
1 Desolation Angel (Foil)
1 Guardian Beast
1 Contamination
R
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
G
1 Food Chain
WUBRG
1 Rohgahh of Kher Keep
X
1 Charcoal Diamond (Foil)
1 Fellwar Stone (Foil)
T
1 Temple Garden (Foil)
3 Mutavault
1 Kor Haven
One other option you may consider is Dralnu, Lich Lord his draw back seems hefty but it really isn't. I don't know your meta but noncombat damage is pretty rare as far as I can tell, save for a few things like Blasphemous Act. Also, I'd your running a Stax package I'm sure you have token generators which help yo offset Dralnu from harm also. He offers insane card advantage and is a value engine you have to use to really see how amazing he is.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
In Suicide-Tempo/Aggro-Stax/Etc; you are allowed to play some French EDH cards like Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Duress, Hymn to Tourach, Mind Twist, and Liliana of the Veil with all your normal multi-player cards. If it's blue, you can still run Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora.
The only difference is you have to run cheap little utility creatures like Bonded Fetch, Braisd, Dark Confidant, Vendilion Clique, Cabal Minion, [Card[Shadowmage Infiltrator[/Card] - your goal is to out value the table through counter-magic, well timed wraths, discard, and for me, a perfectly placed Smokestack after a Armageddon/Jokulhaups.
At least in blue/black, you get Trinket Mage to maximize your utility package.
In the end, Wydwen would play much like Delver in Legacy/Modern/Standard with a lot more than 8 creatures.
@Damia: She's terrible if you plan on blowing through your hand. You know what happens if you do that against me? I use one of many spot removal, so you are stuck with 7 mana into top deck mode against a blue/black deck with 7 cars + slightly less mana.
The only time I've seen a strategy for Damia to empty your hand is when you have Leyline of Anticipation and Lion's Eye Diamond. You will always know when to cast LED, crack it, cast Damia and most likely get the 7 cards.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
That's kind of how my Damia was running as a tempo list with green to ramp through tempo. So do you have a list I could spy on? Get some ideas?
Now that sounds like fun. I love playing on my opponents turns. Do you think I could sneak a peek at your list too?
My Damia list was a tempo list that turned into a tempo-ish list with a few stax elements. (I had to put The Abyss somewhere. The green was a blast but there was always a disjoint and a struggle between the colors as much as I loved the flexibility.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/490176-wydwen-the-biting-gale-instant-speed
Here's the thread I made, my list and a few thoughts about the deck are there. Tapped out has my final list I ended up with, but it's like 97% the same. I will say that adding Venser and Riptide Laboratory was great. Being able to drop Venser on the last end step before my turn to bounce something annoying, then stick him back into my hand BEFORE even starting my turn was great. The same with Snapcaster Mage. End step before my turn, I drop Snapcaster, recast something like Fact or Fiction, return Snappy to my hand, THEN start my turn was always fun. Snapcastering back an Evacuation was some great tech also.