I want to build a combo deck, but I don't want it to be something that's been done a million times before like combo control Azami, Lady of Scrolls or Jhoira of the Ghitu. I don't want any infitnites. I want the deck to have multiple combos, or a way to consistently tutor for one or two combos. I don't want the deck to require a lot of counting and keeping track of things (for instance, Norin the Wary and Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker are decks I felt were a chore to play)
For what it's worth my favorite combo decks in Modern right now are 7 Forest Belcher, and Bant Gifts. I tend to play with blue, white or black, especially blue but I'm open to all colors, but I'd prefer mono or dual because I don't think my budget will allow a 5 colored deck. Usually I would say I prefer artifacts and enchantments rather than creatures, but that's not always the case (it's more that I'm paranoid about how fragile creatures are). The general doesn't have to be directly related to the combos. I guess I'm just interested in hearing about powerful or clever combos and interactions I can play and win with in EDH that aren't infinites.
For me to help I think you need to define combo outside of infinite because the two to me go hand in hand. If strong synergy is what your looking for then I can help. I generally like all your decks and you have even inspired me to build a few versions of your decks myself.
My saffi eriksdotter deck is a combo deck. Saffi sacs herself so bring back a creature I just sac'd. She has several infinites. If you don't want infinites you could take out all of the free sac outlets, that way you can reuse the etb triggers once a turn. With untap shenanigans that could make birthing pod a little crazier. I also have Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof which isn't technically infinite, but will almost always one shot the table.
Experiment Kraj is going to be my next durdle-combo no-infinite deck. Wrexial has a large handful of card combos that do silly things without going infinite too.
My Gisela deck has plenty of damage-based combos that do "just enough" damage to win (e.g., Heartless Hidetsugu and Furnace of Rath). Does that sound like what you want?
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WUBRG Reaper King - The Trouble With Tribals WUBRG
You could do something like Warp World recursion. Which you may or may not be able to chain forever, but is never considered "infinite" by wotc standards. You use cards like Archaeomancer to bring back warp world and replay it since your lands come into play untapped. Another non-infinite combo is a bit obnoxious but something like Darksteel Forge, Nevinyrral's Disk, Mycosynth Lattice which is a one sided repeatable board wipe that hits lands. There's essentially no answer to it so that's a win without going infinite. Avenger of Zendikar + Craterhoof Behemoth isn't original, but its a lot of damage. Are any of those what you're looking for?
Death_by_Dragons I'm curious what decks I've encouraged you to make. By combo outside of infinite, I mean 2 or 3 cards that synergize and do something well, but doesn't last forever or take short cuts to perform. So even though Mind Over Matter + Azami, Lady of Scrolls + Laboratory Maniac isn't technically an infinite, in this context I'm going to call it one, because no one wants to really sit there and watch me cycle through 70 cards. Here are examples in Modern I like that can maybe help explain what I'm looking for. Gideon Jura + Ajani Vengeant/Jace, Architect of Thought makes it very possible to ultimate unless the aggro opponent has a card like Oblivion Ring. Running a 7 land deck, and quickly fetching the lands out of the deck allows Goblin Charbelcher to almost always do lethal damage. Sun Titan bringing back Phantasmal Image to copy Sun Titan, to bring back Eternal Witness to get back Bant Charm is pretty cool, etc. In Creatureless Oloro, I run Spreading Plague, Tainted Aether and Overburden which can get really out of hand if 2 of them are on the board at the same time.
I think something like Heartless Hidetsugu and Furnace of Rath is an example of a cool combo that isn't boring or broken, but frankly mono red is the last thing I want to do. Darksteel Forge, Nevinyrral's Disk, Mycosynth Lattice isn't exactly something I'm looking for either, maybe because it's too mean, too much power for not enough effort. I don't want to do Voltron either (sorry Bruna), Generally, I would say I want a combo that puts me in a strong position to win the game, but doesn't say "I'm going to win this game, but you should scoop, because I actually can't win this game for a while." (i.e. infinite life). Melek, Izzet Paragon and Experiment Kraj sound interesting, could you maybe explain some cool non infinite combos they offer.
Avenger of Zendikar + Craterhoof Behemoth is a little stale, but would be a good example of what I'm looking for if it involved creatures. But I wouldn't want to do something like derp derp Tooth and Nail. Maybe something with Deadeye Navigator, I always hear about how that card is insanely underrated, and you can't go infinite with it unless you have infinite mana, so I'd be very curious to hear some Deadeye Navigator combos. I hope I'm not all over the map and I've explained what I mean a little better.
Ah, a kindred spirit. I know exactly what you mean. I had a Hanna, Ship's Navigator pillowfort deck for a while that won with Mind Over Matter/Temple Bell. But after a couple of times going "I have both of these cards on the field, I win, GG," I got bored. So I turned it into a Near-Death Experience deck. Instead of simply winning as soon as my Open the Vaults resolved, I would simply get out NDE, a Phyrexian Processor to put me at one life, and a host of defensive enchantments and artifacts. Then I would pass the turn, giving everyone at the table one turn to change my life total or get rid of NDE before my upkeep. Was it as consistent as the first combo? No way. Was it ten times as much fun to win with? Oh yeah.
I'm currently on a journey to win with every non-banned card in Magic that says "you win the game." (Excluding Battle of Wits unless I can figure out how to get a 200-card library in EDH.) So far, I've gotten:
I'm working on Phenax, God of Deception with Mortal Struggle and Laboratory Maniac right now. Point is, don't just go for combos that merely win the game; go for ones that make you cackle like a mad genius when you actually manage to pull them off. Good luck!
PS: My favorite not-quite-infinite combo is Eye of the Storm + Knowledge Exploitation or Memory Plunder. Cast every instant and sorcery in my opponents' deck/graveyard (respectively) multiple times? Yes please!
As a connoisseur of fun, interesting matches, I still to this day have not been able to craft that "perfect deck"; the deck that I can play and have fun over time, doesn't get boring, but simultaneously is fun to play against. I honestly don't think it exists. It's like a unicorn. A ninja unicorn.
I would recommend something like Karador. The whole deck focuses on graveyard synergy and controlling the board, but without blue. Also, you can run Bosh, Iron Golem and do mono red/brown artifact control/synergy. Glissa, the Traitor is along the same vein. Tons of synergy. Of course, Roon of the Hidden Realm is beast, but that is more value town and less synergy. Finally, Melek, Izzet Paragon is terrific for abusing and reusing spells to provide what seems like infinite combos, but actually is not, just crazy amounts of synergy and usage/abusage of the stack.
I would suggest taking Bant as your colors, and either Jenera or Derevi as your commander. Just play ETB goodstuff, there are tons of unique interactions and Birthing Pod chains you can play with, like:
I'm currently on a journey to win with every non-banned card in Magic that says "you win the game." (Excluding Battle of Wits unless I can figure out how to get a 200-card library in EDH.)
A deck with strong synergies (which I'm guessing you're talking about, since "combo" refers to infinite stuff and/or insta-wins) can win just as often as a combo deck that wins out of nowhere. Try an enchantress deck or a nice goodstuff general such as Riku, and just get tons of value every turn.
How about doomsday. It's a combo deck that doesn't see a lot of play. It's got style points and multiple options for the stack of five. It's not too complex.
I'm currently on a journey to win with every non-banned card in Magic that says "you win the game." (Excluding Battle of Wits unless I can figure out how to get a 200-card library in EDH.)
what about spawnsire of ulamog, have an extra binder with i dunno, like 251 ulamog, the infinite gyre... so you'd get battle of wits into play, then the spawnsire, pump 20 mana into it, put into play 251 ulamogs, 1 of which stays in play, the other 250 gets shuffled into your library, you win the next upkeep.
OR, there was someone on some thread i read that managed to opalescence, battle of wits and pumped it and whacked someone with combat damage. can't say thats the way i'd do it though... 251 ulamogs seems easier.
Ask how your group does Wish cards. If its "go grab a card from your binder" your in buisness.
get Eye of the Storm out and do a wish card, really doesn't matter which, but youll need 2.. Find some way to storm like 50 cards with 2 wishes on the eye. Cards like Memory Plunder go a long way in helping this. Eventually you can mass your deck up to the point you have 200 cards, from pulling them outside of the game. It's really difficult, REALLY convoluted, but it can work, depending on group rulings.
If you use a 10card wish board, nope. no chance. Opalescence and turn sideways works for battle of wits.
some people only allow you to grab from a 10 card sideboard. Personally, if someone want's to spend almost 10 grand on 251 ulamogs, then i'll let them do thier battle of wits lol.
For what it's worth my favorite combo decks in Modern right now are 7 Forest Belcher, and Bant Gifts. I tend to play with blue, white or black, especially blue but I'm open to all colors, but I'd prefer mono or dual because I don't think my budget will allow a 5 colored deck. Usually I would say I prefer artifacts and enchantments rather than creatures, but that's not always the case (it's more that I'm paranoid about how fragile creatures are). The general doesn't have to be directly related to the combos. I guess I'm just interested in hearing about powerful or clever combos and interactions I can play and win with in EDH that aren't infinites.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Because almost always combo is infinite... and then when it isn't.. then it is counting and keeping track of things (storm/extra turns)
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I collect pre-release Stone-Tongue Basilisk
My Saffi deck
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I think something like Heartless Hidetsugu and Furnace of Rath is an example of a cool combo that isn't boring or broken, but frankly mono red is the last thing I want to do. Darksteel Forge, Nevinyrral's Disk, Mycosynth Lattice isn't exactly something I'm looking for either, maybe because it's too mean, too much power for not enough effort. I don't want to do Voltron either (sorry Bruna), Generally, I would say I want a combo that puts me in a strong position to win the game, but doesn't say "I'm going to win this game, but you should scoop, because I actually can't win this game for a while." (i.e. infinite life). Melek, Izzet Paragon and Experiment Kraj sound interesting, could you maybe explain some cool non infinite combos they offer.
Avenger of Zendikar + Craterhoof Behemoth is a little stale, but would be a good example of what I'm looking for if it involved creatures. But I wouldn't want to do something like derp derp Tooth and Nail. Maybe something with Deadeye Navigator, I always hear about how that card is insanely underrated, and you can't go infinite with it unless you have infinite mana, so I'd be very curious to hear some Deadeye Navigator combos. I hope I'm not all over the map and I've explained what I mean a little better.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I'm currently on a journey to win with every non-banned card in Magic that says "you win the game." (Excluding Battle of Wits unless I can figure out how to get a 200-card library in EDH.) So far, I've gotten:
I'm working on Phenax, God of Deception with Mortal Struggle and Laboratory Maniac right now. Point is, don't just go for combos that merely win the game; go for ones that make you cackle like a mad genius when you actually manage to pull them off. Good luck!
PS: My favorite not-quite-infinite combo is Eye of the Storm + Knowledge Exploitation or Memory Plunder. Cast every instant and sorcery in my opponents' deck/graveyard (respectively) multiple times? Yes please!
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
You can also do similar things with riku (I'll post a link in my sig as well.) if you ditch recursion effects.
eg. Deadeye + Eternal Witness + Time Warp and gang.
I would suggest taking Bant as your colors, and either Jenera or Derevi as your commander. Just play ETB goodstuff, there are tons of unique interactions and Birthing Pod chains you can play with, like:
1) Birthing Pod a 2cc into Deceiver Exarch, untap Pod into a 4cc
2) Birthing Pod a 4cc (Solemn Simulacrum) into Karmic Guide/Body Double, taking back Solemn for another round.
3) Having the famous Saffi Eriksdotter x Sun Titan and Reveillark x Karmic Guide reanimator pairing. It will not be an infinite if you don't include the sacrifice engines.
4) Deadeye Navigator x ETB creature
5) Progenitor Mimic an Eternal Witness for GY recursion every turn.
6) Ability to add blink into your arsenal, with Restoration Angel, Venser, the Soujourner, Conjurer's Closet etc.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
Research // Development + copy effects/spell recursion.
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/casual-deck-lists-andrew-wilson-111312-60-card-battle-of-wits/
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
The Mimeoplasm + Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon + Lord of Extinction
Necrotic Ooze + Triskelion + Phyrexian Devourer
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf + Sadistic Hypnotist
Glissa, the Traitor + Executioner's Capsule
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
Zedruu the Greathearted
Mirrorweave
Things that work with Mirrorweave:
Admonition Angel exile 10 permanents
Balefire Liege 30 damage per red spell seems nice, big army is good too
Bronze Bombshell with tokens given from sources you control. Could be lethal damage instantly.
Coalhauler Swine doesn't work directly with it, but could be useful
Dandân No islands? No creatures
Drooling Ogre Steal all the creatures
Grinning Ignus make massive amounts of mana
Hero of Bladehold atttaaaaaaack
Hunted Phantasm unblockable army, food for bronze bombshell
Master of Etherium atttaaaaaack
Nobilis of War atttaaaaaack
Ogre Battledriver saw a guy in the epic plays thread do this, play a Birds of Paradise and swing for 20 in the air. Another small flier will work fine too.
Tidespout Tyrant return all the stuff to hands
Time Elemental with cards that force attacking or blocking
Vigean Graftmage 0/0's don't live
Vulshok Battlemaster with Ensouled Scimitar hit the scimitar with mirrorweave and then play the battlemaster. Free shot at an opponent since everything will be equipped to her.
Spirit Mirror 0:Destroy target creature
Chimeric Mass kill all the creatures
Gideon Jura only 1 gideon per player may live, also works with Time Elemental
Other things:
Archaeomancer
Charmbreaker Devils
Izzet Chronarch
Mirror-Sigil Sergeant
Mnemonic Wall
Nucklavee
Scrivener
Call to Mind
Gamble
Mystic Retrieval
Mystical Tutor
Reins of Power
Relearn
Surreal Memoir
Forbidden Orchard
various Counterspells
Haven't tried it out yet, but it seems combo-y and fun maybe.
[Primer] WBR Tariel: You'll Thank Me For This WBR [Primer]
GGG Dosan of the Green Rainbow GGG
RWU Zedruu: I Ain't Even Mad RWU
Sydri's Magical Castle WUB
Chainer, Dementia Master: "Bring out your dead!" BBB
Riku Because Copying Decimate URG
Xira Arien, Jund StaxBRG
The Sylvan-Primordial-PlasmBUG
Trostani ComboGW
Vizkopa Guildmage - Peasant VariantBW
IMO that's more insulting to the rest of the table. If you wanna combo, go all the way. If your playgroup hates it, just don't.
As for Doomsday combo? Nice... lemme grab my popcorn. Tell me when it's finished. lol
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
what about spawnsire of ulamog, have an extra binder with i dunno, like 251 ulamog, the infinite gyre... so you'd get battle of wits into play, then the spawnsire, pump 20 mana into it, put into play 251 ulamogs, 1 of which stays in play, the other 250 gets shuffled into your library, you win the next upkeep.
OR, there was someone on some thread i read that managed to opalescence, battle of wits and pumped it and whacked someone with combat damage. can't say thats the way i'd do it though... 251 ulamogs seems easier.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
get Eye of the Storm out and do a wish card, really doesn't matter which, but youll need 2.. Find some way to storm like 50 cards with 2 wishes on the eye. Cards like Memory Plunder go a long way in helping this. Eventually you can mass your deck up to the point you have 200 cards, from pulling them outside of the game. It's really difficult, REALLY convoluted, but it can work, depending on group rulings.
If you use a 10card wish board, nope. no chance.
Opalescence and turn sideways works for battle of wits.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR