MTG Salvation

I have been having a lot of issues playing EDH in my playgroup namely against counterspells. It's natural for blue to run counterspells since it's their thing but a lot of people go overboard with it to the point that I'm usually locked out of the game until they combo off to kill. Most games that I play against blue decks either drag into the late game where they lock me out from playing anything over 4CMC (basically bombs) or they complain that I kill them "too fast". I'm not sure if a 9-10 turn cycle kill is considered too fast in EDH, but my deck is basically token lifegain with Obzedat. This is pretty much every turn of every game game I play that I'm getting tired of the format.

Me: Casting Hero of Bladehold. Responses?
Opponent: In response, spin top (Sensei's Divining Top). Flip top, cast Spell Crumple.

Cavern of Souls and Boseiju, Who Shelters All are not options for me as I don't run many sorceries, instants, or creatures with one type. Does anyone have suggestions for white, black, artifacts, lands, or Orzhov cards that combat counterspells?

Grand abolisher is nice.

But if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? Oloro and obzedat play much the same way.

Grand Abolisher is a good one. Are there any lands, artifacts, enchantments that have a similar effect since they stick around longer? Creatures usually have a short lifespan in my meta. I was thinking of Oloro since his lifegain is more consistent, but my deck is pretty much done. I'm just filling in the more expensive cards like Vindicate.

If they are running enough counters to stop all your stuff they dont have very many wincons. Figure out what they are and take them out.
Sadistic Sacrament
Jester's cap

Defense Grid is usually a good speed bump against blue control.

Defense Grid is decent.

Thanks guys. Defense Grid is pretty much the exact card I was looking for.

I'm a U control player and I find the thing I hate most is when my opponent attacks my hand. Cards like Thoughseize, Hymn to Tourach, Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress and similar cards seriously prove to be a pain for me. The trick is timing. When you absolutely need something to resolve, and it looks as if they can only counter one time during your turn, you hit them with a discard effect. This way, if they don't counter it, you can take their counterspell or biggest threat while obtaining information so you know exactly what you're dealing with. If they do choose to counter it, it will mean they have less resources to react to your actual threat.

In addition, Mana Web is an absolute beat down against Draw-Go style decks. I f'in hate that card.

Vedalken Orrery might help. It's a different approach to fighting blue magic, but it has worked in my BW deck!

Play Hypnotic Spectre and his descendants. Or try to resolve a quick black Myojin.

I think you're really asking: what counterspells are there in Orzhov?

Dash Hopes, Dawn Charm, Lapse of Certainty. There's a few more.

Playing against blue players is really easy. Just play cautious and play smart. I mean will they Force of Will your turn 2 Hymn to Tourach or Counterspell your Cabal Therapy naming that card you just Intuition'd for. If they do that just means they are desperate, and have nothing else.

You just need to learn player psychology, and if they are constantly flicking their cards if they means anything. Some magic pro tips will help you play much better against blue players.

Don't get baited by people messing with their lands to fake you out with their pretend counter-magic.

My Doran Suicide-Tempo list plays very Black/White, so that might get you some ideas for how to play "aggressive" against blue players.

Quote from Blees

I think you're really asking: what counterspells are there in Orzhov?

Dash Hopes, Dawn Charm, Lapse of Certainty. There's a few more.

Dash hopes is, no offense intended, absolutely terrible. And it isn't a counterspell by any means. Dawn charm is a nice piece of tech, but probably has maybe 2 targets against a mono-u deck: BSZ and...?

It's too bad the manlands in W/B aren't that great, because lands are often a control breaker.

You might be able to kill players with Inkmoth Nexus if their decks have too many counterspells and not enough real answers or threats.

Quote from DivineEdge

Quote from Blees

I think you're really asking: what counterspells are there in Orzhov?

Dash Hopes, Dawn Charm, Lapse of Certainty. There's a few more.

Dash hopes is, no offense intended, absolutely terrible. And it isn't a counterspell by any means. Dawn charm is a nice piece of tech, but probably has maybe 2 targets against a mono-u deck: BSZ and...?

It seems my sarcasm-fu was too strong...

Another cool trick to push through spells against countermagic on your turn is to play instant Split Second stuff like Extirpate, Angel's Grace, Sudden Death, Sudden Spoiling, etc in response to your first spell cast while you still have priority. Not the cleanest way to do it but it works.

Edit: Orim's Chant or Silence is another trick to push spells through. Again not the cleanest solution but it works.

A smart blue player will just wait for the spell will SS to resolve, and then counter.

Quote from kinematik

Another cool trick to push through spells against countermagic on your turn is to play instant Split Second stuff like Extirpate, Angel's Grace, Sudden Death, Sudden Spoiling, etc in response to your first spell cast while you still have priority. Not the cleanest way to do it but it works.

This does not work. The stack resolves one object at a time, not all at once.

Abeyance, Orim's Chant, and Silence on an Isochron Scepter are also strong against permission-based control, but generally not worth including on their own merit. Luckily there are other scepter targets in you should be running already, such as Swords to Plowshares and Vampiric Tutor.

Frankly if you are having issues against blue control decks in Orzhov colors you aren't playing to the strengths of the colors. Within that combination there is extremely efficient hand control and some of the strongest card advantage engines, you have to remember they cant counter everything and control you forever....

try using Sadistic Hypnotist, Mind Slash, Mind Twist, Identity Crisis. There is plenty of other discard effects particularly for 1v1 play that can completely grind a counterspell based strategy to the ground without it being mostly dead vs other matchups. Cards like Grand Abolisher, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Thalia, Guardian of Tharben that negate the opponent's card or mana advantage work wonders as well.

Also dont fall into their whine game, theres nothing wrong with you killing them fast; if they cant take it maybe they should be the ones to be asking how to change their boring counterspell deck to survive rather than to whine your opponents into gimping their decks so their strategy works.

Quote from Muspellsheimr

Abeyance, Orim's Chant, and Silence on an Isochron Scepter are also strong against permission-based control, but generally not worth including on their own merit. Luckily there are other scepter targets in you should be running already, such as Swords to Plowshares and Vampiric Tutor.

I was going to suggest this as well. Since you said your deck was a token deck, Zealous Persecution also makes a good Scepter target.

I feel like everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle.

Blue based decks thrive due to deck manipulation and card draw. They just do it better, in greater numbers, and usually for cheaper than other colors. If you really want to cripple them, this means either attacking that or limiting their resources that make it happen, which is context sensitive. And, shamefully for you, means utilizing creatures in WB.
There are plenty of W hatebears, and a few cards that enable discard/card draw punishment in B (underworld dreams), But would require building your deck JUST to combat the blue mages. Which runs the risk of getting you curb stomped in another meta.

Edit:
Blowing up their mana base is totally a thing you could try.

Quote from Muspellsheimr

Quote from kinematik

Another cool trick to push through spells against countermagic on your turn is to play instant Split Second stuff like Extirpate, Angel's Grace, Sudden Death, Sudden Spoiling, etc in response to your first spell cast while you still have priority. Not the cleanest way to do it but it works.

This does not work. The stack resolves one object at a time, not all at once.

Ah you're right, I started realizing this after I posted. I haven't personally got away with doing that myself but I thought it could work. Not so much.

I agree with others in the sense that hand disruption is the best solution, so cards like Castigate and Thoughtseize are obviously good against control decks with a ton of countermagic.

I would highly recommend against single-use targeted discard such as Thoughtseize.

Cards like Mind Slash and Sadistic Hypnotist however are very strong options, especially in a token oriented deck.
Mind Twist and the like are also worth running simply because of their scale, but are still not ideal choices.