After having quite the lengthy discussion about how a multi-player Commander League should be ran, I figured I would ask the community. Instead of posting about how the league I play in is currently ran and how I want to change it, I figured I would ask all of you how it should be and shouldn't be ran.
Questions that I would like you to answer in your posts.
-How are points distributed to players? Four points to first, three to second, two to third, and one point to last place?
-How many games a night should be played, should there be a time limit on games, and how should pairings be determined?
-How much should the entry fee be and what should prizes consist of? Should it be a higher entry fee and have the prizes be duals?
-Pods of four is the norm, but how should points be given to pods of three if there is a night where only 11 people show up?
-Should it be a league where players play one night a week and rounds are posted, somewhat like a FNM, or should players just be allowed to play with whomever they want whenever they want and only be allowed a certain amount of games a week?
Feel free to pose other questions or expand even farther on the questions because I'm sure there are obvious things that I have missed that need to be addressed when creating a league.
Well most leagues have a points based system which award points when specific achivements have happened during a game. For instance you can have a player kill be 1 or 2 points, to balance it effectively and have specific negative things like deter mass land destruction/etc or combo be a lack of in your league since most leagues are casual like.
I'll throw my points system as a example here.
Basic Points
[+2] Fatality – Eliminate a player. This award can be earned multiple times, but only once per turn.
[+2] Frontline Commander – Eliminate a player through commander damage.
[+3] Last Planeswalker Standing – Win the game by having all other players eliminated.
[+1] Fateful Kill – Eliminate a player when you have 5 or fewer life.
[+1] Get Creative – Eliminate a player through a method other than damage, commander damage, or poison counters.
[+1] That's a lot of mana - Cast your general for the 4th time during any one specific game, [Can only be earned once during a game, for all players]
[+1] Playing with a Full House - Control a Planeswalker, Artifact, Creature, Enchantment and a speciality land during any point in the game [Can be earned by all players during the game, only once per game][Artifact Creatures and Enchantment Creatures only count towards 1 of these, either artifact, enchantment or creature, you get to choose, but they don't count towards both.]
[+1] Have A Big Guy/Gal - Control a creature with power 20 or greater at any point in time during the game [Can only be earned once a game, every game by all players.]
Note: The god weapons count towards the full house rule too, since they are both enchantment and artifacts, you may choose one of the two types, but not both.
Co-Operation Points
[+1] Quick Save – Save one opponent’s creature from another opponent’s removal.
[+1] Get Back In There – Save another player from being killed by another opponent.
[+1] Gift of Knowledge – Cause another player to draw 3 or more cards with a non-symmetric effect. (Symmetric effects include Howling Mine, Arcane Denial, etc.) [This effect can only be earned once per player, per game]
[+1] Gather the Tribe – Control six or more creatures with different names of the same creature type. (Conspiracy effects don’t count.)
[+1] Hey, that's My Spell - Copy a player's targetable spell, then take out one of your opponent's creatures with the copied spell
Note: All Co-Operation points are 1 time per game, once you earn it, that is it, this is to prevent grinding of points.
Negative Points
[-4] Nice Game, Bro – Eliminate a player before they have taken their fifth turn.
[-2] Natural Disaster – Destroy one or more opponents’ mana base. Examples include Armageddon and like effects , using targeted land destruction to destroy a player’s only source(s) of one colour , or using Wasteland and Crucible of Worlds to prevent a player from further developing their mana base. [This can include recurring effects such as Sylvan Primordial and Deadeye Navigator's soulbond ability, essentially preventing players from playing any spells whatsoever of those colors.]
[-1] Hog the Spotlight – Take more than 2 additional turns in a given turn cycle.
End of Game Points
[+2] No Tutors, No Bribes – Finish the game without searching a player’s library for a nonland card. Effects controlled by other players that cause you to search your library do not cause you to lose this achievement.
[+1] Wild Card – At the end of the game, each player secretly votes for an opponent whose playing they enjoyed the most. The player who receives the most votes gets this achievement.
[+1] What a Shame, Here have a point - Players who receive 0 points total during a game, automatically get this achivement.
[+1] What is it good for - Control the least amount of permanents when you are eliminated from the game, this effect happens when general damage, lack of cards, etc eliminates you from the game [Can be earned by all players once per round]
Well most leagues have a points based system which award points when specific achivements have happened during a game. For instance you can have a player kill be 1 or 2 points, to balance it effectively and have specific negative things like deter mass land destruction/etc or combo be a lack of in your league since most leagues are casual like.
I'll throw my points system as a example here.
I've tried point systems like this before and they would be fine if certain players didn't try to abuse them. Unfortunately, I don't think something like this would work where I play because players can be competitive. I don't like punishing players for winning to early or for blowing up someone else's lands. We normally don't have a problem with the negative effects, but I'd just rather not have them there any way.
I don't like complicated points systems in leagues because they are too hard to keep track of, and often they will need revision right about the time when players have just got their head around the point system.
I prefer a simple system:
everyone gets one point for playing a game.
a player is awarded one point for each player eliminated.
last player standing in the pod gets an additional point.
I don't like complicated points systems in leagues because they are too hard to keep track of, and often they will need revision right about the time when players have just got their head around the point system.
I prefer a simple system:
everyone gets one point for playing a game.
a player is awarded one point for each player eliminated.
last player standing in the pod gets an additional point.
The issue with this, and I can vouch for my local area shop going through this in which my buddy is in, combo decks are rolling people left and right. There is literally no reason not to play a game breaking combo deck, with the prize structure there is available the cost to play.
I also disagree with too much to keep track of.
Magic the gathering is a high process game. It is not UNO, or war. It has almost infinite interactions and an official rules book that would put a lot of those DYI car repair books to shame.
If the entire league was built of high-tuned, cutt throat, world championship level type of players and decks, then straight points, is fine. Many people are trying to get that "gentlemen's agreement" feel into the mix.
The only way to do that, is, combat the obvious. Winning should be a very high factor, but the rest should not just be strictly ignored.
Now on to what I would do.
== You pick a general at the start of the league, and that is the general you have to keep through a determined amount of time. My shop does 4-5 weeks. You can do what you want on this.
== Use the normal EDH banned list, do not try banning anything else no any other level. This is what most people are familiar with.
== The entry fee should be enough to get people to want to come, but not so high you price people out. This is already a pricey format.
== Tables --The first night of each new league should be completely random. seating. After that, the tables should be assigned by highest point to lowest. If there is a tie, it will be crucial to come up with a tie breaker that doesn't favor one person getting stuck with a crappier table so he can get easier competition.
== Sideboards, you got to allow them I suggest 30 card sideboards. Those who never have to worry about silver bullets, build stronger decks to roll people.
== Infect make it 15 counters.
i'll draft a point system in a while. back to work!
Leagues are more of a pain than anything else. They are tedious, create rules problems that players will abuse, and everyone will chime in with what they think is fair.
I think the best solution, and I would love to try it is a simple night for EDH and incentivize coming. I think 5 bucks a night with door prizes and maybe pizza and soda can draw in the players and from there just split into pods and play as many games before the night ends as possible.
You'll still get arguing but under this system you just point to commander.net and say there are the rules.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
The issue with this, and I can vouch for my local area shop going through this in which my buddy is in, combo decks are rolling people left and right. There is literally no reason not to play a game breaking combo deck, with the prize structure there is available the cost to play.
I also disagree with too much to keep track of.
Magic the gathering is a high process game. It is not UNO, or war. It has almost infinite interactions and an official rules book that would put a lot of those DYI car repair books to shame.
If the entire league was built of high-tuned, cutt throat, world championship level type of players and decks, then straight points, is fine. Many people are trying to get that "gentlemen's agreement" feel into the mix.
The only way to do that, is, combat the obvious. Winning should be a very high factor, but the rest should not just be strictly ignored.
Now on to what I would do.
== You pick a general at the start of the league, and that is the general you have to keep through a determined amount of time. My shop does 4-5 weeks. You can do what you want on this.
== Use the normal EDH banned list, do not try banning anything else no any other level. This is what most people are familiar with.
== The entry fee should be enough to get people to want to come, but not so high you price people out. This is already a pricey format.
== Tables --The first night of each new league should be completely random. seating. After that, the tables should be assigned by highest point to lowest. If there is a tie, it will be crucial to come up with a tie breaker that doesn't favor one person getting stuck with a crappier table so he can get easier competition.
== Sideboards, you got to allow them I suggest 30 card sideboards. Those who never have to worry about silver bullets, build stronger decks to roll people.
== Infect make it 15 counters.
i'll draft a point system in a while. back to work!
If you dot want people to be competitive, don't create a competition. That's what a league is. If you just want to play edh complete with gentlemen's agreements, just designate a night for edh and don't have a league.
I hate it when casuals want to eat their cake and have it too.
I will layout the way that I have normally played in past stores.
There are pods of 3-4, preferably 4, but 3 happens when the amount of people isn't perfect.
4 points for 1st, 3 points for 2nd, 2 points for third, and if there is a 4th player then they get 1 point for coming in 4th.
We play three games a night and play one a week. The first round of the nigh is random, the second round is a "winner's table" where the winners of the first round play, and the last round is random again. The league last 4-6 weeks.
Their current entry fee is complete garbage, but I definitely want to lower it to $20-30 (I wish I could make it lower). The store insists that they want to give away a dual land (something I completely disagree with) to first place so that is why the entry fee has to be somewhat high. Another reason is that I think that everyone should get some sort of prize. Top 8 gets more than a pack while every else not in the top 8 after the league is over only gets one pack.
I am not the store owner or anyone that works there, but I've played in many leagues and there are always problems and there always will be. I'm just a player that wants to make the experience better for some players. I want it to be somewhat competitive, but not too competitive.
I will now outline how they currently do the their league.
(Something that I would never consider playing in and have never played in)
There are pods of 4. The point system is the same with 1st getting 4 points, 2nd getting 3, and so on.
They don't have a set night. You are allowed to play 4 games a week with whoever you want as long as they pay the entry fee. This means that you could essentially play with the same 3 people the whole league and never have to play against anyone else.
The entry fee is $2 a game and they play for 6 weeks. So, if you want a chance of winning then you have to pay $8 a week for 6 weeks which is about $48 to be in this League. Obviously, not everyone pays the full $48 to play, which is fine. First place gets a dual land. Not sure about the pay out to the other players, but it was fairly high.
One problem that they ran in to was that a player didn't have anyone to play against one night. She paid for 3 other people to play and she obviously beat them. She did this for her 4 games and after that night she was tied for first place. She could have been beaten several times that night, but no one ever took her our of the match. This is an obvious problem which is one the reasons why I want to just have one fee for the the whole league.
Note: You have to choose a commander to play for the entire league.
I think the way I want to set up their league is better than their current way. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to make this league better, besides the entry fee. I can't really be in charge of that. I can only give suggestions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Questions that I would like you to answer in your posts.
-How are points distributed to players? Four points to first, three to second, two to third, and one point to last place?
-How many games a night should be played, should there be a time limit on games, and how should pairings be determined?
-How much should the entry fee be and what should prizes consist of? Should it be a higher entry fee and have the prizes be duals?
-Pods of four is the norm, but how should points be given to pods of three if there is a night where only 11 people show up?
-Should it be a league where players play one night a week and rounds are posted, somewhat like a FNM, or should players just be allowed to play with whomever they want whenever they want and only be allowed a certain amount of games a week?
Feel free to pose other questions or expand even farther on the questions because I'm sure there are obvious things that I have missed that need to be addressed when creating a league.
I'll throw my points system as a example here.
EDH:1 vs 1
Talrand, Sky Summoner Retired.
EDH Multiplayer
Drana. Kalastria Bloodchief
Talrand, Sky Summoner
My Blog -
Tips to Writing
Tips for Freelance Magic Writing
I prefer a simple system:
everyone gets one point for playing a game.
a player is awarded one point for each player eliminated.
last player standing in the pod gets an additional point.
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
The issue with this, and I can vouch for my local area shop going through this in which my buddy is in, combo decks are rolling people left and right. There is literally no reason not to play a game breaking combo deck, with the prize structure there is available the cost to play.
I also disagree with too much to keep track of.
Magic the gathering is a high process game. It is not UNO, or war. It has almost infinite interactions and an official rules book that would put a lot of those DYI car repair books to shame.
If the entire league was built of high-tuned, cutt throat, world championship level type of players and decks, then straight points, is fine. Many people are trying to get that "gentlemen's agreement" feel into the mix.
The only way to do that, is, combat the obvious. Winning should be a very high factor, but the rest should not just be strictly ignored.
Now on to what I would do.
== You pick a general at the start of the league, and that is the general you have to keep through a determined amount of time. My shop does 4-5 weeks. You can do what you want on this.
== Use the normal EDH banned list, do not try banning anything else no any other level. This is what most people are familiar with.
== The entry fee should be enough to get people to want to come, but not so high you price people out. This is already a pricey format.
== Tables --The first night of each new league should be completely random. seating. After that, the tables should be assigned by highest point to lowest. If there is a tie, it will be crucial to come up with a tie breaker that doesn't favor one person getting stuck with a crappier table so he can get easier competition.
== Sideboards, you got to allow them I suggest 30 card sideboards. Those who never have to worry about silver bullets, build stronger decks to roll people.
== Infect make it 15 counters.
i'll draft a point system in a while. back to work!
I think the best solution, and I would love to try it is a simple night for EDH and incentivize coming. I think 5 bucks a night with door prizes and maybe pizza and soda can draw in the players and from there just split into pods and play as many games before the night ends as possible.
You'll still get arguing but under this system you just point to commander.net and say there are the rules.
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
GPolukranos, Kill ALL the Things!G
If you dot want people to be competitive, don't create a competition. That's what a league is. If you just want to play edh complete with gentlemen's agreements, just designate a night for edh and don't have a league.
I hate it when casuals want to eat their cake and have it too.
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
There are pods of 3-4, preferably 4, but 3 happens when the amount of people isn't perfect.
4 points for 1st, 3 points for 2nd, 2 points for third, and if there is a 4th player then they get 1 point for coming in 4th.
We play three games a night and play one a week. The first round of the nigh is random, the second round is a "winner's table" where the winners of the first round play, and the last round is random again. The league last 4-6 weeks.
Their current entry fee is complete garbage, but I definitely want to lower it to $20-30 (I wish I could make it lower). The store insists that they want to give away a dual land (something I completely disagree with) to first place so that is why the entry fee has to be somewhat high. Another reason is that I think that everyone should get some sort of prize. Top 8 gets more than a pack while every else not in the top 8 after the league is over only gets one pack.
I am not the store owner or anyone that works there, but I've played in many leagues and there are always problems and there always will be. I'm just a player that wants to make the experience better for some players. I want it to be somewhat competitive, but not too competitive.
I will now outline how they currently do the their league.
(Something that I would never consider playing in and have never played in)
There are pods of 4. The point system is the same with 1st getting 4 points, 2nd getting 3, and so on.
They don't have a set night. You are allowed to play 4 games a week with whoever you want as long as they pay the entry fee. This means that you could essentially play with the same 3 people the whole league and never have to play against anyone else.
The entry fee is $2 a game and they play for 6 weeks. So, if you want a chance of winning then you have to pay $8 a week for 6 weeks which is about $48 to be in this League. Obviously, not everyone pays the full $48 to play, which is fine. First place gets a dual land. Not sure about the pay out to the other players, but it was fairly high.
One problem that they ran in to was that a player didn't have anyone to play against one night. She paid for 3 other people to play and she obviously beat them. She did this for her 4 games and after that night she was tied for first place. She could have been beaten several times that night, but no one ever took her our of the match. This is an obvious problem which is one the reasons why I want to just have one fee for the the whole league.
Note: You have to choose a commander to play for the entire league.
I think the way I want to set up their league is better than their current way. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to make this league better, besides the entry fee. I can't really be in charge of that. I can only give suggestions.