Hey all, I used to play a fun deck in standard months ago built around hard counters and just a few creatures. I would like to try something like this again now that I am in EDH. My playgroup doesn't really have a counter deck, just aggro, counter and discard control.
I am looking for some possible generals to use. I have 2 decks, Tajic, Blade of the Legion and Roon of the hidden realm. I'd like to avoid having another deck with white as an important colour but I will if there is a great general with white in the colours.
So far I've looked at Grand Arbiter and Talrand. Kami of the Crescent Moon looks fun but similar win con to a deck in my playgroup alreardy.
Also, the deck doesn't need to be competitive quality but should still be vaible in multiplayer. It will be there mostly as a fun outlet against the combo decks I play against.
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Bad Ertai is a pretty amazing control general. He has incredibly good synergy with an awful lot of Orzhov sorts of cards, including Teysa 1.0, Grave Pact, Dark Mikaeus, etc.
Talrand is obvious, and generally not very good in multi-player, but he seems like he'd be solid 1v1.
Wydwen, the Biting Gale is good for a draw-go style deck, since she has Evasion and built in protection. Black gives you solid removal for whatever slips through the cracks of your counterspells. I've seen lots of Wydwen decks that play only instants except for maybe a few swords, and heard that they do decent in both multiplayer and 1v1. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is also decent for this strategy, but is more likely to draw hate because he's super annoying. Dralnu, Lich Lord is always I deck I've wanted to see because he seems pretty unbeatable if you can untap with him. Just make sure to leave open mana to counter that Blasphemous Act.
... Nothing wrong with giving an opinion and some advise dude. Calm down.
I don't know why you're telling me to calm down. I'm not in the slightest bit angry.
"Your idea is bad and you should make a deck that I like better" is awesome advice.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
It's generally not seen as casual fun to make people do nothing the whole game by countering everything they do. A lot of newer players (not sure if this goes for the OP), think this is a 'fun' idea, put money in buying such a deck, and then get hated off the table and get bored themselves. And knowing what kind of decks he has now (pretty interactive generals), it just seems like a plan doomed to fail.
It's always a good thing to get opinions from two perspectives before buying stuff. Oh And the OP can probably talk for himself.
It's generally not seen as casual fun to make people do nothing the whole game by countering everything they do. A lot of newer players (not sure if this goes for the OP), think this is a 'fun' idea, put money in buying such a deck, and then get hated off the table and get bored themselves. And knowing what kind of decks he has now (pretty interactive generals), it just seems like a plan doomed to fail.
It's always a good thing to get opinions from two perspectives before buying stuff. Oh And the OP can probably talk for himself.
I love how no one likes to take responsibility for anything they say on these forums. Whenever you try to show people how their statements come off to other people it's always "that's not what I said." It's very obvious that that's not what you said, but I think that's what you meant whether you realized it or not.
Not. everyone. plays. commander. casually.
The guy asked for help with a specific subject and you added nothing to the conversation. You dismissed his point of view and told him that his idea wasn't fun. The thing is that everyone has a different idea of what's fun and what isn't. I don't understand why people have such a hard time with that on these forums. The OP even said that he plays against combo decks.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
It's generally not seen as casual fun to make people do nothing the whole game by countering everything they do. A lot of newer players (not sure if this goes for the OP), think this is a 'fun' idea, put money in buying such a deck, and then get hated off the table and get bored themselves. And knowing what kind of decks he has now (pretty interactive generals), it just seems like a plan doomed to fail.
It's always a good thing to get opinions from two perspectives before buying stuff. Oh And the OP can probably talk for himself.
I've seen plenty of new people make counterspell.dec and never get bored with it..
Generalization is never a good idea when it comes to groups of different people.
I love how no one likes to take responsibility for anything they say on these forums. Whenever you try to show people how their statements come off to other people it's always "that's not what I said." It's very obvious that that's not what you said, but I think that's what you meant whether you realized it or not.
You can think that, but you are wrong. But I respect your opinion nonetheless.
Not. everyone. plays. commander. casually.
I think I saw him use the word 'fun' a couple of times, and the sentence "Also, the deck doesn't need to be competitive quality".
The guy asked for help with a specific subject and you added nothing to the conversation. You dismissed his point of view and told him that his idea wasn't fun. The thing is that everyone has a different idea of what's fun and what isn't. I don't understand why people have such a hard time with that on these forums. The OP even said that he plays against combo decks.
I'm not saying what is and isn't fun. If you're a competitive player than a deck idea like that is fun. I get that. And nothing wrong with that either. Different people, different styles. In casual however, people tend to hate on decks like these. And I think it's viable information to know that if you're not that long into EDH.
It's your opinion that I added nothing to the conversation. I just don't get why you feel the need to point it out. It's kind of the same as saying what is and isn't fun like it's a fact (something that wasn't my intention by the way).
But lets get back on topic, because this is going nowhere.
I've seen plenty of new people make counterspell.dec and never get bored with it..
Generalization is never a good idea when it comes to groups of different people.
True. It's just something I experienced playing with a lot of different people. It was not my intention to be offensive to people that do like to play with and against such decks. Just that not every casual playgroup likes decks like that. I'm kind of surprised my comment took this topic in this direction. I've seen this discussion numerous times on this forum. I think giving an opinion shouldn't take every single topic into a discussion on what is or isn't fun. Or a flame contest because someone said 'people may find it annoying to play against'.
It's your opinion that I added nothing to the conversation. I just don't get why you feel the need to point it out. It's kind of the same as saying what is and isn't fun like it's a fact (something that wasn't my intention by the way).
I pointed it out because if I came to a website and went to the trouble to register and post a thread asking for help and a bunch of people posted telling me what I was doing is not fun and that I should come up with another idea I would probably never post there again.
The guy says he plays against combo in his OP. If you want to reduce how often combo wins countering is a good place to start. I think you didn't read the OP in it's entirety.
On Topic:
Zedru pillowfort is another option. You can protect yourself from aggro, manipulate the game politically, and keep combo under control.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
Talrand is super-strong as a MUD commander, but I agree that it might get kinda' tedious because it's so consistent. The drawback is you might get ganged up on with great frequency, and you can't usually hold off more than two or players at once.
If there's a strat you're looking to hard counter there is probably a hatebear or a selection of them that will bring those combos to a halt. This is far more efficient that throwing counterspells at the problem, because each of those counterspells represents a card, and if you're going card for card with an entirely table you're going to run out of steam fast. Hatebears or at least permanents with a hate effect will get you a lot more value in the long run.
I'm not saying to online and construct the most hateful Gaddock Teeg list you can find. That'll just get you killed fast or leave the entire table bitter and hating you, especially if they're not prepared for it. I think its silly not to run something like Linvala, Keeper of Silence or Arcane Laboratory if your meta has an issue with Melek storm or Azami combo
I agree with whoever said Ertai, the Corrupted Ertia stax has been on my building table for a long time. I just cant find time to build it. : ( But yeah you have a living counter spell, that you can build to abuse the sacking trigger. Seems good. I also think the deck can be built relativity inexpensively. Assuming you don't play mana drain and force of will.
Essentially, I would like to build a 3rd deck, preferably mono, and likely blue. Counter magic is something our group has very little of and could likely use some more of considering how many games are won just by resolving huge spells (usually by cheating them in somehow...playing for free, from graveyards, or with Jeleva). Even the Krenko deck has some bombs! It would be fun if someone could say no in those big moments.
The idea was just to build a deck that can sometimes shut that down. However, I played control in Standard when I first got into Magic and I know how terrible it can be in multiplayer.
Talrand looks great, but I can see why it may not fly and attract hate. My decks are targetted with a lot of hate at the moment and for good reason - maybe something that will get less hate?
Something like Kami of the Crescent Moon seems like a deck that could durdle and have some fun playing lots of cards. Some counter magic to stop those bombs would work as I could constantly restock my hand.
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Talrand is super-strong as a MUD commander, but I agree that it might get kinda' tedious because it's so consistent. The drawback is you might get ganged up on with great frequency, and you can't usually hold off more than two or players at once.
Talrand can hold off about 3 people, assuming you play enough steal effects. All counterspells all the time means you're playing sub-optimal counters (i.e. conditional counters, like "counter target instant or sorcery spell"... I'm definitely not saying you have to run expensive counters, Force of Will or Management Drain).
Ultimately, Talrand is best played (in my experience) by running about 10-15 of the best counters you can get and hold onto them until those big plays that you want to stop happen. The rest of the deck is draw/filter instants and sorceries, some tutors (optional, really), some time magic, and the necessary enchantments: Opposition, Coastal Piracy, Cast Through Time, Future Sight, etc. Then you go and make some drakes and win!
I agree with whoever said Ertai, the Corrupted Ertia stax has been on my building table for a long time. I just cant find time to build it. : ( But yeah you have a living counter spell, that you can build to abuse the sacking trigger. Seems good. I also think the deck can be built relativity inexpensively. Assuming you don't play mana drain and force of will.
My friend made a nasty Bad Ertai. It was so fantastically controlly... I wanted to make it afterward.
Essentially, I would like to build a 3rd deck, preferably mono, and likely blue. Counter magic is something our group has very little of and could likely use some more of considering how many games are won just by resolving huge spells (usually by cheating them in somehow...playing for free, from graveyards, or with Jeleva). Even the Krenko deck has some bombs! It would be fun if someone could say no in those big moments.
The idea was just to build a deck that can sometimes shut that down. However, I played control in Standard when I first got into Magic and I know how terrible it can be in multiplayer.
Talrand looks great, but I can see why it may not fly and attract hate. My decks are targetted with a lot of hate at the moment and for good reason - maybe something that will get less hate?
Something like Kami of the Crescent Moon seems like a deck that could durdle and have some fun playing lots of cards. Some counter magic to stop those bombs would work as I could constantly restock my hand.
Kami is pretty group hug. That's not bad, mind you. However, the last time I played Kami, I was playing Talrand, and Kami just gave me all the answers. Not just counters, but also the enchantments I needed to stop the hate and later win.
I'm gonna highly recommend Talrand because he doesn't draw too much hate (at first)and he has the access to protect himself.
Some protection/fun stuffs of the not counter variety:
I am looking for some possible generals to use. I have 2 decks, Tajic, Blade of the Legion and Roon of the hidden realm. I'd like to avoid having another deck with white as an important colour but I will if there is a great general with white in the colours.
So far I've looked at Grand Arbiter and Talrand. Kami of the Crescent Moon looks fun but similar win con to a deck in my playgroup alreardy.
Also, the deck doesn't need to be competitive quality but should still be vaible in multiplayer. It will be there mostly as a fun outlet against the combo decks I play against.
WUGDerevi Voltron AttritionWUG
WGRMayael of the Cheated CreaturesWGR
Blue/Green could give you recrussion to reuse counter spells (as in Eternal Witness
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Add in Thornbite Staff and Lullmage Mentor, and you got U: Counter target spell whenever you need it.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Talrand is obvious, and generally not very good in multi-player, but he seems like he'd be solid 1v1.
This style of play might get boring for you quickly though. When I tried out an Edric build, I scrapped it right away after the first game of testing.
This is actually a really good idea considering that you play against a lot of aggro decks.
Isperia, Supreme Judge would be a less competitive option.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
This. It will get boring for everybody really quickly. Fun and a deck stuffed with hard counters, do not match.
The OP asked a specific question about a specific strategy.
Let him and his playgroup worry about whether or not that's the right strategy for them.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I don't know why you're telling me to calm down. I'm not in the slightest bit angry.
"Your idea is bad and you should make a deck that I like better" is awesome advice.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
It's generally not seen as casual fun to make people do nothing the whole game by countering everything they do. A lot of newer players (not sure if this goes for the OP), think this is a 'fun' idea, put money in buying such a deck, and then get hated off the table and get bored themselves. And knowing what kind of decks he has now (pretty interactive generals), it just seems like a plan doomed to fail.
It's always a good thing to get opinions from two perspectives before buying stuff. Oh And the OP can probably talk for himself.
I love how no one likes to take responsibility for anything they say on these forums. Whenever you try to show people how their statements come off to other people it's always "that's not what I said." It's very obvious that that's not what you said, but I think that's what you meant whether you realized it or not.
Not. everyone. plays. commander. casually.
The guy asked for help with a specific subject and you added nothing to the conversation. You dismissed his point of view and told him that his idea wasn't fun. The thing is that everyone has a different idea of what's fun and what isn't. I don't understand why people have such a hard time with that on these forums.
The OP even said that he plays against combo decks.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I've seen plenty of new people make counterspell.dec and never get bored with it..
Generalization is never a good idea when it comes to groups of different people.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
You can think that, but you are wrong. But I respect your opinion nonetheless.
I think I saw him use the word 'fun' a couple of times, and the sentence "Also, the deck doesn't need to be competitive quality".
I'm not saying what is and isn't fun. If you're a competitive player than a deck idea like that is fun. I get that. And nothing wrong with that either. Different people, different styles. In casual however, people tend to hate on decks like these. And I think it's viable information to know that if you're not that long into EDH.
It's your opinion that I added nothing to the conversation. I just don't get why you feel the need to point it out. It's kind of the same as saying what is and isn't fun like it's a fact (something that wasn't my intention by the way).
But lets get back on topic, because this is going nowhere.
True. It's just something I experienced playing with a lot of different people. It was not my intention to be offensive to people that do like to play with and against such decks. Just that not every casual playgroup likes decks like that. I'm kind of surprised my comment took this topic in this direction. I've seen this discussion numerous times on this forum. I think giving an opinion shouldn't take every single topic into a discussion on what is or isn't fun. Or a flame contest because someone said 'people may find it annoying to play against'.
Come on
I pointed it out because if I came to a website and went to the trouble to register and post a thread asking for help and a bunch of people posted telling me what I was doing is not fun and that I should come up with another idea I would probably never post there again.
The guy says he plays against combo in his OP. If you want to reduce how often combo wins countering is a good place to start. I think you didn't read the OP in it's entirety.
On Topic:
Zedru pillowfort is another option. You can protect yourself from aggro, manipulate the game politically, and keep combo under control.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I'm not saying to online and construct the most hateful Gaddock Teeg list you can find. That'll just get you killed fast or leave the entire table bitter and hating you, especially if they're not prepared for it. I think its silly not to run something like Linvala, Keeper of Silence or Arcane Laboratory if your meta has an issue with Melek storm or Azami combo
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
Essentially, I would like to build a 3rd deck, preferably mono, and likely blue. Counter magic is something our group has very little of and could likely use some more of considering how many games are won just by resolving huge spells (usually by cheating them in somehow...playing for free, from graveyards, or with Jeleva). Even the Krenko deck has some bombs! It would be fun if someone could say no in those big moments.
The idea was just to build a deck that can sometimes shut that down. However, I played control in Standard when I first got into Magic and I know how terrible it can be in multiplayer.
Talrand looks great, but I can see why it may not fly and attract hate. My decks are targetted with a lot of hate at the moment and for good reason - maybe something that will get less hate?
Something like Kami of the Crescent Moon seems like a deck that could durdle and have some fun playing lots of cards. Some counter magic to stop those bombs would work as I could constantly restock my hand.
WUGDerevi Voltron AttritionWUG
WGRMayael of the Cheated CreaturesWGR
Talrand can hold off about 3 people, assuming you play enough steal effects. All counterspells all the time means you're playing sub-optimal counters (i.e. conditional counters, like "counter target instant or sorcery spell"... I'm definitely not saying you have to run expensive counters, Force of Will or Management Drain).
Ultimately, Talrand is best played (in my experience) by running about 10-15 of the best counters you can get and hold onto them until those big plays that you want to stop happen. The rest of the deck is draw/filter instants and sorceries, some tutors (optional, really), some time magic, and the necessary enchantments: Opposition, Coastal Piracy, Cast Through Time, Future Sight, etc. Then you go and make some drakes and win!
My friend made a nasty Bad Ertai. It was so fantastically controlly... I wanted to make it afterward.
Kami is pretty group hug. That's not bad, mind you. However, the last time I played Kami, I was playing Talrand, and Kami just gave me all the answers. Not just counters, but also the enchantments I needed to stop the hate and later win.
I'm gonna highly recommend Talrand because he doesn't draw too much hate (at first)and he has the access to protect himself.
Some protection/fun stuffs of the not counter variety:
Ultimately, Talrand can be pretty versatile. But he works really well with any spellslinging strategy.
Thank you to Rivenor for this awesome banner!
Palladia-Mors of {The Spirit of EDH}
EDH
WLinvala, Queen of the AngelsW
WUThe Prison of the Grand ArbiterUW [Primer]
URNiv-Mizzet, Handcycling ComboRU
UTalrand, Drake-Slinging to VictoryU
WUGDerevi, Tactical ShufflingGUW
BCao Cao, Discard Stax of Absolute MiseryB
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind. I've been interested in building him for little while, but the last thing I need is another EDH deck.