Background: This post was originally posted in the Off Topic thread, but quickly spiraled into a large "on topic" discussion. I apologize for editing a modded post, but I wanted to clarify the topic as it is becoming derailed by what seems to be misconceptions regarding criteria.
This post is about what Ryujin thinks are the best and most playable planeswalkers in the format. The thread itself however, can be used to discuss whatever people want to discuss. My list generally prioritizes things that eliminate permanents and draw cards. Things that require a certain board state are ranked by how common that state is imo. Some playable walkers that are very niche (things that are optimal in monocolor for example) were omitted.
List generally prioritizes things that eliminate permanents and draw cards. Things that require a certain board state are ranked by how common that state is imo. Some playable walkers that are very niche (things that are optimal in monocolor for example) were omitted.
I agree with Vraska essentially not making the list. Too often I have seen her as an overcosted Malestrom Pulse that doesn't get copies and doesn't stick around for a second use. I would probably also have bumped Bolas up like 3 positions.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Original garruk probably could also have made the list. He is scarey in mass LD / stasis type of decks. I actually think Sun's Champ is a solid walker. It fits token decks so well its crazy.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I've only seen Bolas resolve once and that my friends was more than enough. I agree with the ranks in general but Lilli of lingerie I think should be a bit higher.
Baby Jace will be good or bad depending on your meta.
It's bad because it's hug, but it's good because it's on your terms.
In less competitive metas you can get a surprising amount of value out of it.
I agree with Vraska essentially not making the list. Too often I have seen her as an overcosted Malestrom Pulse that doesn't get copies and doesn't stick around for a second use. I would probably also have bumped Bolas up like 3 positions.
Redundancy is important, and unconditional removal is always nice.
You also can really say the same thing about Karn tbh; it's all relative.
If she lives great, if not she eats removal or some damage.
Bolas is so low because of his CMC.
There are a lot of metas where you couldn't even really play him.
He could probably go up higher though.
Original garruk probably could also have made the list. He is scarey in mass LD / stasis type of decks. I actually think Sun's Champ is a solid walker. It fits token decks so well its crazy.
What makes Garruk Wildspeaker shine is his +1's interaction with mana doublers.
In other words, I omitted him because I feel he is mostly a mono green card.
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Baby Jace will be good or bad depending on your meta.
It's bad because it's hug, but it's good because it's on your terms.
In less competitive metas you can get a surprising amount of value out of it.
Redundancy is important, and unconditional removal is always nice.
You also can really say the same thing about Karn tbh; it's all relative.
If she lives great, if not she eats removal or some damage.
Bolas is so low because of his CMC.
There are a lot of metas where you couldn't even really play him.
He could probably go up higher though.
Elspeth is one of the greatest planeswalkers ever made.
Edit:
What makes Garruk Wildspeaker shine is his +1's interaction with mana doublers.
In other words, I omitted him because I feel he is mostly a mono green card.
His +1 is also just generally good value over time. You don't really need doublers. Also he's just generally unassuming, so he's capable of sitting out f for a while with little hate, and his ult is rather easy to hit.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion I agree she is a really good planeswalker I just dont rank her as high as some other planeswalkers, dont get me wrong she is great for token decks and weenies.
Garruk Wildspeaker is really more than just a mono green card, ya he is very good with mana doublers but he is more than solid in mana fixing in tri color decks.
His +1 is also just generally good value over time. You don't really need doublers. Also he's just generally unassuming, so he's capable of sitting out f for a while with little hate, and his ult is rather easy to hit.
He's simply good value.
The turn you cast him his +1 basically reads "You may cast Garruk for 2 less." You have to wait an entire turn rotation before you really see any value from him. He's not bad outside of monogreen, but at the same time I think I would rather use that slot for a rock. There are also a bunch of cards that do his ultimate better.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion I agree she is a really good planeswalker I just dont rank her as high as some other planeswalkers, dont get me wrong she is great for token decks and weenies.
Elspeth is generally good in any deck with white.
She protects herself, she wipes the board, she's awesome with resource denial.
Garruk Wildspeaker is really more than just a mono green card, ya he is very good with mana doublers but he is more than solid in mana fixing in tri color decks.
How is he fixing? He doesn't change the kind of mana you have.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
Perhaps we should spin this off into an actual thread if we are going to discuss walkers and how good they are in depth. It is sort of an actual topic related to magic and EDH in general so I dont know how much I want multiple pages of offtopic on a real topic...
EDIT: I spliced this stuff out into its own thread.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Elspeth 1.0 doesn't make the cut? Stax decks love her token +1, and her pump +1 is relevant in a lot of decks for pushing damage through. Rarely does her ultimate ever go off, but if it does it's pretty much gg.
I never played against Karn till last night and got my ass handed to me by a god hand of land, sol ring, thran dynamo, grim monolith, Karn which resulted in a T3 Karn I could never get rid of. Ridiculous lol. I was in top deck mode 3 turns later.
Garruk is mana fixing as more times than not when you need multiples of a color for say GGG and only 2 green sources it fixes that problem. Mid game fixing is just as important as Early Game. That really is all that I have to say on that matter
I would have to agree with ISB here, this really should be its own thread.
Back to the Cold topic, Im currently fighting a stupid cold because I was stupid enough to not flush my radiator and refill it with antifreeze this winter that I had the pleasure of working outside thawing my Radiator and Hoses in -15 degree weather....Now Im sicker than I ever been (have a really high immune system)
Personally Garruk Wildspeaker is my favorite planeswalker. I don't play blue much, so I'm not as familiar with the blue walkers. Garruk is fairly cheap. He untaps 2 lands, which is usually sufficient ramp. Ever though about using explosive vegetation? Well Garruks second ability does that and more. I like untapping my Gaea's cradle for lots of mana. Garruk is also fairly efficient in getting green devotion for my Nykthos. What I really like about Garruk is that his ult is the easiest to get off from any planeswalker. The very next turn after you play him you have a potential overrun on your hands. He can get wins fairly quickly, especially if people underestimate him. I don't use the second ability often, but even that can be useful at times. Making more dudes never hurt. Wildman doesn't feel like a huge liability like most walkers. He's always useful and I'm not upset when he dies. Even using an ability only once can be worth it sometimes. Garruk is just the most consistently good planeswalker, aside from Jace, the mind scupter. The only problem with jace is that people are more likely to target him then Garruk.
So many planeswalkers so little time. I like the idea behind the thread, but it is very subjective. Most walkers are pretty good in EDH, as long as they are just not crammed into a deck just because. Most people build their decks around their walkers, and almost nobody drops a walker unprotected, unless they can fairly well protect them. I think Jace, the Minsculptor and Vensor are amazing. As are Karn, Nikol Bolas and Vraska. Anything that comes into play and can bounce, destroy or exile is amazing in a game of resources. Basically any walker that can net an advantage that helps the long term goal is good.
What? No Sorin Markov with the most hated ability to drop someone from 40 to 10 life?
Its usually more of a lame move than a game winning move is my problem with soin. The fact that he only hits one player and doesn't kill them either on his own is... shakey at best. If you are building good decks that win games, he isn't a very good wincon. Its more in my opinion used by players who have a hard time winning and drop it on the player who usually wins sort of a walker. The better your decks are, the worse an inclusion he tends to be in your deck.
The better tactic, is to run things that win games rather than means to try to remove a single player from a 4 player game. That is my opinion at least.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I don't think Sorin is run as a win condition, he simply helps set you up. In monoblack I'm obviously not trying to kill people with Sorin (unless I have Wound Reflection in play) but I am trying to kill them with Exsanguinate and Sorin helps make sure I have a way to regulate life totals before I get to that point. I still don't think he's that great but I think most walkers are pretty awful so I could probably squeeze him into top 5.
the first three explain themselves. Lily2.0 is rediculously powerful. Although the + is a bit niche to really take advantage of, grinding the whole table down is very powerful, especially against blue players. the -6 is easy enough to get off, and the -2 makes her a backup Diabolic Edict with potential for more, all for 3CMC. NickyB is just sheer amazing, but he's low on the list for being 8CMC. but he protects himself so well...
Although all of them can shine in niche decks, thats the only place they shine. Tibalt is plain bad, Goldmane does next to nothing, Koth only works in MonoR, Nalaar is overcosted and Nissa only works in elves, though when she is in elves she's awesome and a wincon.
Other mentionables: Venser, the Sojourner: Awesome, but more niche than top 5. Many forget his -1 also. Ajani Vengeant: Good card all around, but he's in the two least played, and arguably weakest colors in commander. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver: A house in my Wrexial deck, but i don't see many applications outside of a UB millsteal deck. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: Amazing if you can protect her, but she draws a lot of hate. Vraska, the Unseen: People generally ignore her as long as you're keeping her + up. Unless someone has tokens, most people don't want to swing into deathtouch, and if they do, then she's serving as removal so her + IS doing something. the pulse is good, and her -7 is a wincon. Whats not to love?
Although all of them can shine in niche decks, thats the only place they shine. Tibalt is plain bad, Goldmane does next to nothing, Koth only works in MonoR, Nalaar is overcosted and Nissa only works in elves, though when she is in elves she's awesome and a wincon.
Tibalt and Nissa undeniably suck, and Chandra Nalar isn't great either. But I'm going to have to disagree with you on Ajani + Koth.
Ajani's +2 is pretty minor, but it makes him easy to ignore, and he gets to his -6 easily and that's a Serra Avatar for 4 mana. His -1 is also a VERY powerful anthem effect.
Koth is frankly amazing in monored decks. Sure, that's a niche, but he's effectively a mana doubler there, with bonus effects.
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Tibalt and Nissa undeniably suck, and Chandra Nalar isn't great either. But I'm going to have to disagree with you on Ajani + Koth.
Ajani's +2 is pretty minor, but it makes him easy to ignore, and he gets to his -6 easily and that's a Serra Avatar for 4 mana. His -1 is also a VERY powerful anthem effect.
Koth is frankly amazing in monored decks. Sure, that's a niche, but he's effectively a mana doubler there, with bonus effects.
I actually though Ajani said target, not each; This makes him far more useful and now i want a copy for my Hazezon deck.
I agree on Koth, but He's still very niche, putting him behind the others in comparison. If I moved him out of the bottom 5, I have no idea what i'd put in his place...
This post is about what Ryujin thinks are the best and most playable planeswalkers in the format. The thread itself however, can be used to discuss whatever people want to discuss. My list generally prioritizes things that eliminate permanents and draw cards. Things that require a certain board state are ranked by how common that state is imo. Some playable walkers that are very niche (things that are optimal in monocolor for example) were omitted.
EDH Planeswalkers, best to worst order imo:
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Fixed
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I wouldnt rank Elspeth, Sun's Champion so high.
BURPerfectly Suited to Mindless Carnage, ThraximundarRUB
URBOckham's Mindrazer = Nekusar the MindrazerBRU
UBRMarchsea makes all the Men do Stupid ThingsRBU
GWBThe Best Offense is Defense, Doran 2.0BWG
XRDaretti, Artifact ShenanigansRX
RKrenko the Don of the Goblin MobR
GFreyalise and Elves have pet HydrasG
WArmy of the Heavens, Lead by the Angel of HopeW
BDrana, The Removal BloodchiefB
UAzami, Knowledge is PowerU
WBDaxos is Enchanting Enchantments to Enchant more EnchantsBW
GRI got 99 Permanents but Primal Surge ain't One, Ruric TharRG
GBNel Thot's Sacrificial SwarmBG
WRWifey's Wrath - Gisela Blade of GoldnightRW
WUPillowfort Tron - BrunaUW
XXThe TriadXX
Do you have what it takes to survive?
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Baby Jace will be good or bad depending on your meta.
It's bad because it's hug, but it's good because it's on your terms.
In less competitive metas you can get a surprising amount of value out of it.
Redundancy is important, and unconditional removal is always nice.
You also can really say the same thing about Karn tbh; it's all relative.
If she lives great, if not she eats removal or some damage.
Bolas is so low because of his CMC.
There are a lot of metas where you couldn't even really play him.
He could probably go up higher though.
Elspeth is one of the greatest planeswalkers ever made.
Edit:
What makes Garruk Wildspeaker shine is his +1's interaction with mana doublers.
In other words, I omitted him because I feel he is mostly a mono green card.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
His +1 is also just generally good value over time. You don't really need doublers. Also he's just generally unassuming, so he's capable of sitting out f for a while with little hate, and his ult is rather easy to hit.
He's simply good value.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Garruk Wildspeaker is really more than just a mono green card, ya he is very good with mana doublers but he is more than solid in mana fixing in tri color decks.
BURPerfectly Suited to Mindless Carnage, ThraximundarRUB
URBOckham's Mindrazer = Nekusar the MindrazerBRU
UBRMarchsea makes all the Men do Stupid ThingsRBU
GWBThe Best Offense is Defense, Doran 2.0BWG
XRDaretti, Artifact ShenanigansRX
RKrenko the Don of the Goblin MobR
GFreyalise and Elves have pet HydrasG
WArmy of the Heavens, Lead by the Angel of HopeW
BDrana, The Removal BloodchiefB
UAzami, Knowledge is PowerU
WBDaxos is Enchanting Enchantments to Enchant more EnchantsBW
GRI got 99 Permanents but Primal Surge ain't One, Ruric TharRG
GBNel Thot's Sacrificial SwarmBG
WRWifey's Wrath - Gisela Blade of GoldnightRW
WUPillowfort Tron - BrunaUW
XXThe TriadXX
Do you have what it takes to survive?
The turn you cast him his +1 basically reads "You may cast Garruk for 2 less." You have to wait an entire turn rotation before you really see any value from him. He's not bad outside of monogreen, but at the same time I think I would rather use that slot for a rock. There are also a bunch of cards that do his ultimate better.
Elspeth is generally good in any deck with white.
She protects herself, she wipes the board, she's awesome with resource denial.
How is he fixing? He doesn't change the kind of mana you have.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
EDIT: I spliced this stuff out into its own thread.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
BURPerfectly Suited to Mindless Carnage, ThraximundarRUB
URBOckham's Mindrazer = Nekusar the MindrazerBRU
UBRMarchsea makes all the Men do Stupid ThingsRBU
GWBThe Best Offense is Defense, Doran 2.0BWG
XRDaretti, Artifact ShenanigansRX
RKrenko the Don of the Goblin MobR
GFreyalise and Elves have pet HydrasG
WArmy of the Heavens, Lead by the Angel of HopeW
BDrana, The Removal BloodchiefB
UAzami, Knowledge is PowerU
WBDaxos is Enchanting Enchantments to Enchant more EnchantsBW
GRI got 99 Permanents but Primal Surge ain't One, Ruric TharRG
GBNel Thot's Sacrificial SwarmBG
WRWifey's Wrath - Gisela Blade of GoldnightRW
WUPillowfort Tron - BrunaUW
XXThe TriadXX
Do you have what it takes to survive?
It is it's own thread, now.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
BURPerfectly Suited to Mindless Carnage, ThraximundarRUB
URBOckham's Mindrazer = Nekusar the MindrazerBRU
UBRMarchsea makes all the Men do Stupid ThingsRBU
GWBThe Best Offense is Defense, Doran 2.0BWG
XRDaretti, Artifact ShenanigansRX
RKrenko the Don of the Goblin MobR
GFreyalise and Elves have pet HydrasG
WArmy of the Heavens, Lead by the Angel of HopeW
BDrana, The Removal BloodchiefB
UAzami, Knowledge is PowerU
WBDaxos is Enchanting Enchantments to Enchant more EnchantsBW
GRI got 99 Permanents but Primal Surge ain't One, Ruric TharRG
GBNel Thot's Sacrificial SwarmBG
WRWifey's Wrath - Gisela Blade of GoldnightRW
WUPillowfort Tron - BrunaUW
XXThe TriadXX
Do you have what it takes to survive?
My Saffi deck
My fav---Tibalt...lol
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
Its usually more of a lame move than a game winning move is my problem with soin. The fact that he only hits one player and doesn't kill them either on his own is... shakey at best. If you are building good decks that win games, he isn't a very good wincon. Its more in my opinion used by players who have a hard time winning and drop it on the player who usually wins sort of a walker. The better your decks are, the worse an inclusion he tends to be in your deck.
The better tactic, is to run things that win games rather than means to try to remove a single player from a 4 player game. That is my opinion at least.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
the first three explain themselves. Lily2.0 is rediculously powerful. Although the + is a bit niche to really take advantage of, grinding the whole table down is very powerful, especially against blue players. the -6 is easy enough to get off, and the -2 makes her a backup Diabolic Edict with potential for more, all for 3CMC. NickyB is just sheer amazing, but he's low on the list for being 8CMC. but he protects himself so well...
Bottom 5, from worst to best
Although all of them can shine in niche decks, thats the only place they shine. Tibalt is plain bad, Goldmane does next to nothing, Koth only works in MonoR, Nalaar is overcosted and Nissa only works in elves, though when she is in elves she's awesome and a wincon.
Other mentionables:
Venser, the Sojourner: Awesome, but more niche than top 5. Many forget his -1 also.
Ajani Vengeant: Good card all around, but he's in the two least played, and arguably weakest colors in commander.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver: A house in my Wrexial deck, but i don't see many applications outside of a UB millsteal deck.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: Amazing if you can protect her, but she draws a lot of hate.
Vraska, the Unseen: People generally ignore her as long as you're keeping her + up. Unless someone has tokens, most people don't want to swing into deathtouch, and if they do, then she's serving as removal so her + IS doing something. the pulse is good, and her -7 is a wincon. Whats not to love?
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Tibalt and Nissa undeniably suck, and Chandra Nalar isn't great either. But I'm going to have to disagree with you on Ajani + Koth.
Ajani's +2 is pretty minor, but it makes him easy to ignore, and he gets to his -6 easily and that's a Serra Avatar for 4 mana. His -1 is also a VERY powerful anthem effect.
Koth is frankly amazing in monored decks. Sure, that's a niche, but he's effectively a mana doubler there, with bonus effects.
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I actually though Ajani said target, not each; This makes him far more useful and now i want a copy for my Hazezon deck.
I agree on Koth, but He's still very niche, putting him behind the others in comparison. If I moved him out of the bottom 5, I have no idea what i'd put in his place...
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR