MTG Salvation

it really isn't all that bad. in mono-red, it can help trigger things like pandemonium, vicious shadows and things like that. hes a lot better when you have sac outlets so you get to decide when and on what terms he dies.

i'm a bit surprised anyone would consider the green dragon not the worst. 5 +1/+1 counters is worth like 2GG-ish. 5 damage to each non-flying creature is worth i'd stab at about 3RR at minimum?

and the green dragon's cost is 3GGG... the triple green is totally unnecessary!

but back on the red dragon; hes alright, but i'd only really use him as an in-response-scion of the ur-dragon to a targeted kill spell. and that doesn't really happen all so often.

In the archetypical dragon tribal deck he's a solid way to shift the board state in your favor, allowing you to clear out the first or second wave of ground creatures just as you start to have enough mana to start dropping dragons every turn. I find he has issues supporting some of the top-tier Dragon Commanders (Prossh, Zirilan, Scion, etc.), but he can make a fine addition to any Dragon/fliers deck that's attempting to play "fair".

Of course, he's also a potential Commander in and of himself, in which you can plan around abusing his effect with deathtouch, damage doublers, and the like.

I've seen Ryusei do pretty good work in a not-too-competitive Marchesa deck, especially when combined with Grave Pact sorts of effects. He's rarely going to be optimal, but he's playable.

Ryusei, the Falling Star gets a resounding meh from me. The death effect isn't bad, but it requires a sac outlet to be reliable and kills all your own ground-bound dudes. Of the cycle I only run Keiga, the Tide Star in my Intet Dragons deck. I actually think I'll run Jugan, the Rising Star in the Atarka, World Render deck I plan to make, mainly because five +1/+1 counters let Atarka one-shot people.

I wanted to play Ryusei in Kiki-Jiki but then I realized that doesn't work the way I wanted it to work.

I would consider it in Dragon tribal since my dudes are probably mostly fliers.

This reminds me of the good old days when the green card in a cycle was the worst, not the best. Ah the MtG of yesteryear.

Ryusei is hurt pretty bad in this format by not being able to hit flyers, but he does a good amount of damage.

Quote from JWK »

I've seen Ryusei do pretty good work in a not-too-competitive Marchesa deck, especially when combined with Grave Pact sorts of effects. He's rarely going to be optimal, but he's playable.

The only problem is that since grave pact trigger will resolve before her death trigger does, the opponent can just sac something that was going to die anyway.

Quote from cryogen »

Quote from JWK »

I've seen Ryusei do pretty good work in a not-too-competitive Marchesa deck, especially when combined with Grave Pact sorts of effects. He's rarely going to be optimal, but he's playable.

The only problem is that since grave pact trigger will resolve before her death trigger does, the opponent can just sac something that was going to die anyway.

Ryusei is female? I learned something. Anyhow, re: your point, sure, that is part of why she's not optimal. But keep in mind, with the Pact, it's not just about Ryusei dying. Her death sets off the Pact once, then anything else of yours that dies from Ryusei's death trigger also sets off the Grave Pact, and this happens after the damage trigger from Ryusei's death, so opponents can't sacrifice stuff that has already died to the damage trigger, because that stuff has already been killed by damage before that (second) Grave Pact trigger occurs. Thus, Ryusei can often help clear a board, and if you're using Ryusei in a Marchesa deck (as was the case in the scenario I cited), you probably end up getting a bunch of your stuff back - including possibly Ryusei, who can then do the same thing again later - at the end of the turn.

Like I said, not optimal, but not necessarily awful, either. I'd rate Ryusei as a below-average card, especially given the CMC, but she's not unplayable, and she can potentially be actually good in some decks (Marchesa, dragon tribal, as already noted).

Quote from cryogen »

The only problem is that since grave pact trigger will resolve before her death trigger does, the opponent can just sac something that was going to die anyway.

Section 603.3b of the comprehensive rules solves this problem. As long as you control both Ryusei, the Falling Star and the Grave Pact, they both trigger at the same time so you chose the order the triggered abilities go on the stack. You can put Ryusei's damage trigger on top of the stack.

My Intet deck is Dragon tribal but I still don't like Ryusei because I've got lots of nonflying mana dorks. If only they were all Birds of Paradise.

Quote from Yatsufusa »

But the most annoying thing is that while you still can control when to trigger the effect (sacrifice outlets), removal simply means your opponent can also control the effect as long as you're still waiting for the correct time (which may backfire on you even, depending on the deck.)

This is exactly my experience with trying to play the card. As a threat, he can backfire spectacularly or at the very least impede your own development trying to play around him based on the threat of your opponents removing him. As removal, he's clearly under par - five damage is something, but tons of cards at 6CMC+ that dodge it, and it only hits a subset of creatures to begin with. Red by this point has great board clearing options. No reason at all to play this card outside of Dragon Tribal, and even then he'd be included based on his creature type and not functionality.

He was fun when my Kaalia of the Vast deck was more budget, and I ran him for awhile as an interesting reanimation target in my Grixis reanimator. Unfortunately, both decks have outstripped what he has to offer.

I love this entire cycle. Though I prefer Kokusho as a wincon or Yosei for control or Jugan for the flexibility of how many cards care about +1/+1 counters or 'P/T matters', I've never been disappointed in a spirit dragon.

Funny story, this is one of those cards I keep seeing in dragon tribal decks, even when the deck's headed by something like Rith, the Awakener, even with the obvious antagonism between Ryusei and Rith.

Quote from JWK »

Ryusei is female? I learned something. Anyhow, re: your point, sure, that is part of why she's not optimal. But keep in mind, with the Pact, it's not just about Ryusei dying. Her death sets off the Pact once, then anything else of yours that dies from Ryusei's death trigger also sets off the Grave Pact, and this happens after the damage trigger from Ryusei's death, so opponents can't sacrifice stuff that has already died to the damage trigger, because that stuff has already been killed by damage before that (second) Grave Pact trigger occurs. Thus, Ryusei can often help clear a board, and if you're using Ryusei in a Marchesa deck (as was the case in the scenario I cited), you probably end up getting a bunch of your stuff back - including possibly Ryusei, who can then do the same thing again later - at the end of the turn.

Like I said, not optimal, but not necessarily awful, either. I'd rate Ryusei as a below-average card, especially given the CMC, but she's not unplayable, and she can potentially be actually good in some decks (Marchesa, dragon tribal, as already noted).

I think it is a female dragon. I know kokusho is and I thought yosei was as well. So I just assumed they all were. I could be wrong, but I think we all know I'm very seldomly wrong about anything.

Quote from Incanur »

Section 603.3b of the comprehensive rules solves this problem. As long as you control both Ryusei, the Falling Star and the Grave Pact, they both trigger at the same time so you chose the order the triggered abilities go on the stack. You can put Ryusei's damage trigger on top of the stack.

My Intet deck is Dragon tribal but I still don't like Ryusei because I've got lots of nonflying mana dorks. If only they were all Birds of Paradise.

Yeah I guess that does work. Somehow when I visualized the interaction I didn't think there was a choice involved in stacking the triggers.

Quote from hyalapterouslemur »

land destruction is usually sorcery speed.

Mass land destruction is almost exclusively sorcery speed (although Decree of Annihilation can be cycled at instant speed), but the most widely used targeted land destruction (Strip Mine and friends) can be used at any time, and tends to be accepted in more play groups than MLD.

I've built multiple dragon tribal decks and Ryusei never made the cut for any of them. As low tier as dragon tribal is, even Ryusei still suffers from stiff competition. Especially nowadays lol.

This one time, I trapped an opponent's Ryusei under my Mimic Vat. Was good times, stalled out the game for a while. But yeah, not the sort of thing I'd play in my own lists.

I like Jugan a little more than I like Ryusei, because of the Greater Good value he provides, but I love the art on both dragons.

The dragon too bad for dragon tribal. A life of sadness, no doubt.

I find it weird that Red didn't have the best dragon of a dragon cycle.

Anyways, I think he's mediocre, on par with Havoc Demon. Not bad if you want a creature based sweeper, but I think there are better options in red.

Quote from cryogen »

I think it is a female dragon. I know kokusho is and I thought yosei was as well. So I just assumed they all were. I could be wrong, but I think we all know I'm very seldomly wrong about anything.

Konda referred to Yosei as a male ("He") in the novels, so I'm pretty sure Yosei is male, unless there's contradicting information elsewhere.

Minamo Academy refers to Keiga as a female.

Jugan was summoned in the novels as well, but the Orochi didn't mention anything other than the name.

Kokusho and Ryusei weren't summoned in the novel, although Kokusho was mentioned once simply as "The Dark Dragon of Takenuma" and that's about it.

Back to the card, as conditional as it is, it is technically the first card I got when I started playing because I started out at the Champions of Kamigawa Pre-release and I can't remembered the rares I opened then. (There was probably a deck swap after registration since it was sealed, so that makes it even harder to remember), so the pre-release Ryusei has the "first card" place for me in that sense.

Maybe I should try building a deck with Ryusei at the helm. After all it will turn out to be a lot less conditional if I can control whether the damage happens or not with the "Return to Command Zone" rule.

I wish Ryusei, the Falling Star didn't kill Zirilan of the claw but sometimes I have to boardwipe, I have enough damage doublers that I can often do more than 5 damage.

balefire dragon is obviously better but sometimes people have things like Maze of Ith (or blockers) and you can't connect.

Although I don't tutor him that often to be fair just a necessary dragon based sweeper.

Quote from bobthefunny »

Ryusei is male.
Jugan is male.
Yosei is male.
Kokusho is male.
Keiga is female. (based off our lovely wiki)

Good to know (although I'll probably forget again). I've been incorrectly using their genders for a while now.

Hurricane



Nothing fancy, just an efficient fireball effect in green that hits everyone, including yourself.

I won a casual nonEDH game the other day by Channel-Hurricane. A fine card, though I like the Ice Age art the best.

Glacial Chasm and a few white enchantments will protect you while you sweep the board.

Squall Line and Squallmonger are variations of Hurricane.

I run Hurricane often because it hits everyone, sometimes as a ffinisher.

Cheers!