I was reading someone's new shattergang stax list and noticed this card. I had never heard of it before but it's effect is borderline busted for Edh in the right deck! Any feck able to make tokens will be ramping like no tomorrow. Instant speed, and cheap to use. Even when you're out of basics it's still a cheap sac outlet. 5cmc to drop is more than reasonable.
Why don't I see more people use this secret tech? Even without tokens, sacing a monster to save it from exile or as a may-as-well to a wrath effect, it's still good then...
I was reading someone's new shattergang stax list and noticed this card. I had never heard of it before but it's effect is borderline busted for Edh in the right deck! Any feck able to make tokens will be ramping like no tomorrow. Instant speed, and cheap to use. Even when you're out of basics it's still a cheap sac outlet. 5cmc to drop is more than reasonable.
Why don't I see more people use this secret tech? Even without tokens, sacing a monster to save it from exile or as a may-as-well to a wrath effect, it's still good then...
Best works with Bloodghast, amazing synergy.
Try it out in any B/G/x ramp strategy.
It does work best in token strategies though, especially in decks that have big tokens attached with Skullclamp.
I believe the man reason why it's not overly used is because it's at 5cmc. There are better sacrifice outlets, cheaper and more productive compared to Perilous Forays.
It's great in decks with 20+ basics. I ran in initially in Azua build where my main strategy was to cast/recur Sundering Titan, and ramping into Emrakul as fast as I could. Of course, this was before they both got banned. Once Commander court banned Primeval Titan, Sundering Titan, and Emrakul; I lost all my main ramp targets in Azusa, so I took it apart.
Its really good in some board positions, but seriously, it can be very average without the right tools to back it. Quite often its 5CMC do-nothing enchantment
Seems okay in a deck that wants to float mana, blow up the lands, sac the creatures and put a bunch of lands back in play from their library. Also, Bloodghast as stated by Bacon. Certainly not an amazing card but if it's a grindy stax deck then I'd pretty much welcome someone wasting removal on this card. It is exactly the kind of card that bad players freak out about.
Edit: I'm throwing this in The Sylvan-Primordial-Plasm. I can use good ways to shuffle my library while tossing creatures in the yard after they do their ETB work. An early Sylvan Primordial really mitigates the cost on this.
Its really good in some board positions, but seriously, it can be very average without the right tools to back it. Quite often its 5CMC do-nothing enchantment
This is my concern.
Green ramp that costs 5+ has to be extremely strong, because the competition from artifacts and other green cards is so stiff. This is powerful enough to be worth looking at, but the inconsistency seems like an issue when start to compare it to cards like Gilded Lotus, Caged Sun, Mana Reflection, etc..
Green ramp that costs 5+ has to be extremely strong, because the competition from artifacts and other green cards is so stiff. This is powerful enough to be worth looking at, but the inconsistency seems like an issue when start to compare it to cards like Gilded Lotus, Caged Sun, Mana Reflection, etc..
It depends how you build your deck. In token builds or some BG recursion decks, it's very dependable. If you're just wanting a sac outlet to keep someone from grabbing your stuff with Control Magic and the like, then, no, it's pretty bad.
Like pretty much every other card, it is excellent in decks that are built in a manner that synergizes with hit, and it sucks in decks that don't have such synergestic builds. Just because something doesn't work in a goodstuff deck, that doesn't mean the card can't be good somewhere else.
It's too slow. If you tap out to cast it when you get to 5 mana, you get nothing. To activate this, you either need to have more mana open, or wait a turn to untap after you play this. (Around the same time your opponents are probably curving into acidic slime, bane of progress, and sylvan primordial, I might add.)
To get 2 farseeks out of this card, you need to invest a total of 5GG & Sacrifice Two Creatures. Obviously it's better the longer it sticks around, but I think I'd rather just play boundless realms or something if I needed that many lands.
It was always pretty good in my Karador deck. It ended up getting cut sometime down the line but that was before I had all of the Duals, Shocks and Bosk that could be fetched out with it. It can hit 18 lands by my count and may be worth reconsidering it for a ramp slot.
I've had a friend of mine use the Bloodghast combo to get all his basics in a Damia deck. He went on to use a ton of counter and kill to basically just allow me to do almost nothing.
It's an expensive CMC, but it's worth it in the right deck, especially if you run a ton of basics and in a meta with very little MLD.
I personally think that its a great card to use. In the mid game when you arent hitting you land drops this card helps you get the lands out. Had it out last game and in the end I fetched around 20 lands before the game ended
Gives you plenty of extra permanents to sac away to Stax effects without hurting your board position when you have Bloodghast, is another cheap sac outlet, and also provides insurance against mld.
I like the card in theory, though I haven't tested it enough to know exactly how valuable it is.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Basically, everything 3cmc or less is staple everywhere, and everything more expensive than that is conditional on a lot of different things. Look at Diabolic Tutor v. Demonic Tutor for illustration. Some decks in some areas love a tutor at 4cmc, other places, the card's not considered worth running.
What's beyond arguable though is that the list of stuff that's better at ramping is pretty long. I would include Exploration and Burgeoning before this every time, provided ramp is what I wanted. I have a Jund deck with cards like Death Cloud and Wildfire where this would seem to make sense, but at 5cc+, what I start to want is just draw volume like Wheel of Fortune and Necrologia.
don't forget the synergy with avenger of zendikar. plus, sacking all your creatures to put out land in response to a wrath, or decree of pain is too good to ignore. sacking a token or a creature after the declare blockers step is playing smart and using the phases to your advantage.
I find it's best when I'm in a position that's not overwhelming, but I don't want to invest more in the board. It's sort of like a booby prize for when a wrath hits.
I last played it in Trostani, and it was pretty good for churning out lands once people felt my populate was getting out of hand. It's also a decent counter to theft, Insurrection, etc.
With this, Bloodghast and Stone-Seeder Hierophant you can fetch all of the lands in your deck. Too bad Ob Nix isn't BG, otherwise that could be pretty sweet.
With this, Bloodghast and Stone-Seeder Hierophant you can fetch all of the lands in your deck. Too bad Ob Nix isn't BG, otherwise that could be pretty sweet.
I was reading someone's new shattergang stax list and noticed this card. I had never heard of it before but it's effect is borderline busted for Edh in the right deck! Any feck able to make tokens will be ramping like no tomorrow. Instant speed, and cheap to use. Even when you're out of basics it's still a cheap sac outlet. 5cmc to drop is more than reasonable.
Why don't I see more people use this secret tech? Even without tokens, sacing a monster to save it from exile or as a may-as-well to a wrath effect, it's still good then...
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Best works with Bloodghast, amazing synergy.
Try it out in any B/G/x ramp strategy.
It does work best in token strategies though, especially in decks that have big tokens attached with Skullclamp.
I believe the man reason why it's not overly used is because it's at 5cmc. There are better sacrifice outlets, cheaper and more productive compared to Perilous Forays.
It's great in decks with 20+ basics. I ran in initially in Azua build where my main strategy was to cast/recur Sundering Titan, and ramping into Emrakul as fast as I could. Of course, this was before they both got banned. Once Commander court banned Primeval Titan, Sundering Titan, and Emrakul; I lost all my main ramp targets in Azusa, so I took it apart.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
It's good if you want a sac outlet and don't see much MLD. It's pretty bad if you want to use it for ramp, most of the time.
Its really good in some board positions, but seriously, it can be very average without the right tools to back it. Quite often its 5CMC do-nothing enchantment
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
Edit: I'm throwing this in The Sylvan-Primordial-Plasm. I can use good ways to shuffle my library while tossing creatures in the yard after they do their ETB work. An early Sylvan Primordial really mitigates the cost on this.
Sydri's Magical Castle WUB
Chainer, Dementia Master: "Bring out your dead!" BBB
Riku Because Copying Decimate URG
Xira Arien, Jund StaxBRG
The Sylvan-Primordial-PlasmBUG
Trostani ComboGW
Vizkopa Guildmage - Peasant VariantBW
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
The card also synergizes with token decks and sac heavy decks.
This is my concern.
Green ramp that costs 5+ has to be extremely strong, because the competition from artifacts and other green cards is so stiff. This is powerful enough to be worth looking at, but the inconsistency seems like an issue when start to compare it to cards like Gilded Lotus, Caged Sun, Mana Reflection, etc..
It depends how you build your deck. In token builds or some BG recursion decks, it's very dependable. If you're just wanting a sac outlet to keep someone from grabbing your stuff with Control Magic and the like, then, no, it's pretty bad.
Like pretty much every other card, it is excellent in decks that are built in a manner that synergizes with hit, and it sucks in decks that don't have such synergestic builds. Just because something doesn't work in a goodstuff deck, that doesn't mean the card can't be good somewhere else.
It's too slow. If you tap out to cast it when you get to 5 mana, you get nothing. To activate this, you either need to have more mana open, or wait a turn to untap after you play this. (Around the same time your opponents are probably curving into acidic slime, bane of progress, and sylvan primordial, I might add.)
To get 2 farseeks out of this card, you need to invest a total of 5GG & Sacrifice Two Creatures. Obviously it's better the longer it sticks around, but I think I'd rather just play boundless realms or something if I needed that many lands.
EDH
WBG Karador's Sepulcher GBW
It's an expensive CMC, but it's worth it in the right deck, especially if you run a ton of basics and in a meta with very little MLD.
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
EDH
GWSigarda, Host of EnchantressGW[Primer]
I like the card in theory, though I haven't tested it enough to know exactly how valuable it is.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
It also works well with any token generators, much like Skullclamp does.
It finds its way into Stax mostly because it's a way to trigger Grave Pact and friends. (And of course, Blade of the Bloodchief.)
Note that it also thins your deck and triggers a lot of landfall.
On phasing:
What's beyond arguable though is that the list of stuff that's better at ramping is pretty long. I would include Exploration and Burgeoning before this every time, provided ramp is what I wanted. I have a Jund deck with cards like Death Cloud and Wildfire where this would seem to make sense, but at 5cc+, what I start to want is just draw volume like Wheel of Fortune and Necrologia.
At least I'm loving it in that deck so far.
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
I find it's best when I'm in a position that's not overwhelming, but I don't want to invest more in the board. It's sort of like a booby prize for when a wrath hits.
I last played it in Trostani, and it was pretty good for churning out lands once people felt my populate was getting out of hand. It's also a decent counter to theft, Insurrection, etc.
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Try Amulet of Vigor as well.
Draft my Peasant Cube.