MTG Salvation

So with the new general Nekusar, The Mindrazor I think I have finally been given the general for the punisher/group slug deck that I've always wanted to build. I have always wanted to go Grixis but never liked any of the Grixis generals for this deck arch type. so I was wondering what people where thinking for good group slug/punisher options. im already thinking of Painful Quandary and Spiteful Visions, Forced Fruition, Teferi's Puzzle Box, Howling Mine and Stranglehold. I must admit I am a little new to this arch type so any and all suggestions are welcome and I will try and draw up a deck list for testing soon.

wheel effects

• wheel of fortune
  
• reforge the soul
  
• time spiral
  
• molten psyche
  
• winds of change

punishment
t

• underworld dreams
  
• psychosis crawler

I'm also thinking Liliana's Caress and Megrim, Bloodchief Ascension seems good as well

I was actually brainstorming a Nekusar list on my way to work. Here's what I have so far:



I don't like cards like Font of Mythos or Seizan, Perverter of Truth that draw opponents too many cards. Anvil of Bogardan is just about good enough because it makes them discard a card.

Forced Fruition is the most powerful card that I didn't include because I'm frankly worried that it draws them way too many cards. It potentially does incredible damage though. Right now I have this card as a "maybe".

My first concern about the deck before I started brainstorming a list is that there aren't enough damage sources to reliably end games. 9 draw 7's in the entire deck only represents 63 damage with Nekusar or Dreams out. But with the other damage sources plus the ability (probably not easy) to play politics, I think the deck can win.

Another option I'm thinking about and will have to see if there's room for is a "Specter" package. Cards like Sedraxis Specter and Scythe Specter could be fun includes.

I also think the deck needs a lot of inexpensive interactive cards and fast mana but I am yet to work on those.

You're also going to want spiteful visions and maybe kederekt parasite. I think the way to play this deck is to have mass board wipes to ensure your opponents can't take advantage of the card draw.

Arcane laboratory will negate most of the extra card draw.

Well I have a friend who's currently brewing this guy and he's running all the wheel effects you can think of and Underworld Dreams. Jace's Archivist is pretty good as well since it's a wheel on a body me thinks.

Defintely wanna have some counter magic to protect yourself though, Arcane Denial Cryptic Command, Dream Fracture along with Counterflux

Yea I was thinking of adding a small specter package, either that or shadow so that they couple of Auras this deck runs could go off like Whispering Madness or Undercity Plaguet or Call of the Nightwing. Whispering Madness being the key one here.

I'm thinking that Exquisite Blood would also be good for this deck

Teferi's Puzzle box also helps with my opponents drawing before I do.

Always looking for a good home for Urza's Guilt.

Shameless promoting here, but you might want to check out my thread over in the Multiplayer deck section. I've arrived at just about every conclusion that you guys have.

The biggest debate is how to balance the deck so that your opponents don't benefit from drawing so many cards, and you do. What I've done is add in a fair amount of stax cards and a ton of ramp. In this way, I can softlock my opponents with cards like Mindlock Orb, Torpor Orb, or Cursed Totem, and proceed to dump my hand of ramp into Nekusar. From there, each time you wheel, you will draw into more ramp. Playing that ramp out allows you to continue wheeling further and netting more mana. All the stax effects should buy you enough time to burn out your opponents with the pain cards. The deck is a lot more fluid and faster than it seems. Sure I wouldn't play it in a hyper-competitive metagame, but I think it's a pretty solid deck overall.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that I am not a fan of Howling Mine effects. Howling Mines create incremental card gains for your opponents and boost them into victory. Wheels, however, while they refill your opponents hands are much more disruptive and make it difficult to map out plans given the stax cards I'm playing.

Food for thought.

Quote from MCR

Shameless promoting here, but you might want to check out my thread over in the Multiplayer deck section. I've arrived at just about every conclusion that you guys have.

The biggest debate is how to balance the deck so that your opponents don't benefit from drawing so many cards, and you do. What I've done is add in a fair amount of stax cards and a ton of ramp. In this way, I can softlock my opponents with cards like Mindlock Orb, Torpor Orb, or Cursed Totem, and proceed to dump my hand of ramp into Nekusar. From there, each time you wheel, you will draw into more ramp. Playing that ramp out allows you to continue wheeling further and netting more mana. All the stax effects should buy you enough time to burn out your opponents with the pain cards. The deck is a lot more fluid and faster than it seems. Sure I wouldn't play it in a hyper-competitive metagame, but I think it's a pretty solid deck overall.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that I am not a fan of Howling Mine effects. Howling Mines create incremental card gains for your opponents and boost them into victory. Wheels, however, while they refill your opponents hands are much more disruptive and make it difficult to map out plans given the stax cards I'm playing.

Food for thought.

Yeah the overall wheel package of



Seem good enough to do the job, once either Underworld Dreams and the general hit the board, each draw step essentially Shocks you, cause I was playing this last night with a few friends and one of them proxied up the general for testing and let me tell you, it does work, if you don't hit Underworld Dreams by turn 5, your screwed, so this deck needs a few tutors as well

Diabolic Tutor, Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor all pretty much have a slot here, as well as the fact you will wanna play maybe 4 creatures tops.

Psychosis Crawler, Jace's Archivist, the general and possibly Echo Mage in the late game to copy those spells like crazy

Singleton card draw effects like Blue Sun's Zenith can also work with a bit of counter back up as I've previously stated.

It's funny, I made a deck that would be perfect for that general like a week ago. It focused on looters and chaining wheel effects. Just don't forget Notion Thief. Dropping him then Wheel of Fortune or Windfall is brutal. Forcing every opponent into topdeck mode while you get a ton of cards is great. And you can just sac him when you've got a good hand.

Quote from VelociraptorAHH

It's funny, I made a deck that would be perfect for that general like a week ago. It focused on looters and chaining wheel effects. Just don't forget Notion Thief. Dropping him then Wheel of Fortune or Windfall is brutal. Forcing every opponent into topdeck mode while you get a ton of cards is great. And you can just sac him when you've got a good hand.

Notion Thief is a bit of a nonbo with Nekusar/Spiteful Visions/Underworld Dreams, especially if your strategy is to wheel through everyones deck and life total.

Certainly with all the group hate, you might as well invite Kaervek, the Merciless to the party since they have all of those spells they'd want to cast. Arcane Laboratory to hinder them while you get free-reign of using counterspells (Caution: Not good against other blue players that are counterspell heavy).

Additionally, you'll need to find ways to protect yourself since most of your damage is from group hate. Consider Silent Arbiter if you wanna take group slug to the next level, Aetherize/Propaganda/No Mercy if you want to just protect yourself.

Chains of Mephistopheles, if you can afford it, would be kinda funny (in an annoying sort of way) in this type of deck.

Personally, I would add something like Dream Halls to make the wheeling game actually fun for the other players. Not sure if anyone is interested in that, though, because you might [gasp] help another player!

I think people are missing a key word on this guy that can be abused.

Whenever an opponent draws a card, Nekusar, the Mindrazer deals 1 damage to that player

I'm looking at cards like this:
Elder Mastery (Possibly the best thing ever)

• Helm of the Ghastlord
  
• Curiosity
  
• Neko-Te
  
• Tandem Lookout
  

Was liking these a lot too... the ascensions and Quest charge up in no time flat and let you start locking down and wheeling out quickly.

• Archmage Ascension
  
• Bloodchief Ascension
  
• Quest for Pure Flame
  

What I'm still looking for are good ways to protect him since the whole strategy revolves around a 2/4 with no way to dodge removal.

Quote from Mediocrates

What I'm still looking for are good ways to protect him since the whole strategy revolves around a 2/4 with no way to dodge removal.

lightning greaves
swiftfoot boots
riptide laboratory
cost reducers: rooftop storm and urza's incubator

Cards like Myojin of Night's Reach and Sire of Insanity seem pretty good with all of the mass card draw in this deck.

Quote from uhhlive

Notion Thief is a bit of a nonbo with Nekusar/Spiteful Visions/Underworld Dreams, especially if your strategy is to wheel through everyones deck and life total.

No siree, Notion Thief is an absolute house in this deck. If you build this type of deck and want a competitive build, you will definitely not have Nek/Underworld Dreams/Crawler as your only win cons. Notion Thief + Wheel puts you so far ahead of the game that opponents will be crying horrendously. He also works fabulously with all the other Howling Mine effects you run. So, definitely include him and some other kind of win con as well.

And I definitely second the addition of Arcane Laboratory, hell, I'd take it so far as to include Erayo, Soratami Ascendant. Ok, you get to draw a ton every turn, but you won't be playing much.

Yeah, you clearly want Notion Thief. Drawing all of your opponents' cards after making them discard with a wheel, or drawing an extra card on each of their turns, or the craziness of combining it with Anvil (you draw, then opponent discards) is well worth forgoing 1 point of damage.

Notion theif allows for labratory maniac wins. Just be sure to run some free/cheap mana sources, wheel a bunch, cast him, and do your final wheel.

He's going to be especially good in my meta now that Oloro lifegain decks are appearing. We can do 40 in a turn pretty easily, but more than that can be difficult without library of leng, dream halls, and tutors.

Running surprise infect cards to use with your general also hose lifegain decks as well.

Basilisk Collar and Loxodon Warhammer are really good on Nekusar for the lifegain alone. Also, don't forget sangromancer for all the wheel effects.

Quote from Mediocrates

I think people are missing a key word on this guy that can be abused.

Whenever an opponent draws a card, Nekusar, the Mindrazer deals 1 damage to that player

I'm looking at cards like this:
Elder Mastery (Possibly the best thing ever)

• Helm of the Ghastlord
  
• Curiosity
  
• Neko-Te
  
• Tandem Lookout
  

Was liking these a lot too... the ascensions and Quest charge up in no time flat and let you start locking down and wheeling out quickly.

• Archmage Ascension
  
• Bloodchief Ascension
  
• Quest for Pure Flame
  

What I'm still looking for are good ways to protect him since the whole strategy revolves around a 2/4 with no way to dodge removal.

You are missing something too.
Infect
Tainted Strike plus a big wheel effect like Jace's Archivist or Windfall

I have been playing this deck for a while now and I like this idea. Play cards and let opponents destroy themselves, with some help sometimes. Currently R/B. but adding a 3rd color may make this better. Just off the top of my head: White adds Personal Sanctuary, Artifact/Enchantment search/Protection. Blue adds card draw and more slugs. Green adds ramp?
Im adding in several cards from the commander deck, Price of Knowledge, Sudden Spoiling, Baleful Force, From the ashes, Witch Hunt?, Toxic Deluge, Widespread Panic, Deepfire Elemental.

Can I keep the integrity of the deck idea and play Nekusar? Kaervek would be moving to maindeck. Ideas?


KAERVEK

What about Uba Mask? I feel like forcing your opponents to make a choice between casting their draws or losing the cards for the rest of the game could be really nasty, especially considering you're running extra draw and wheel effects.