Timetwister - I was thinking about picking one up. Commander is the only format I play, and I play a lot of blue.
Is this card useable in every deck that plays islands? Is it an auto-include?
For people who have one - Are you playing it because it's strategically awesome, or because it feels wasteful not to play a $275+ card when you have the chance?
To preclude the suggestion that I should use the money to buy a bunch of other staples - I know I could (and should), but I have most of them already - (12+ years of trading/collecting) and I'm looking to expand my deck building possibilities.
I was timid about picking up mana drain for commander, but I'm glad I did. It goes into every blue commander deck and I'm always happy to draw it. Is timetwister similarly useful/good?
No. If you are being rational it's nearly impossible to say that any single card is worth $275 to play. If you have the means to buy one and you think it will be fun to use, go nuts.
I love the card and it's on my short list of cards I still need. I've seen it go off on turn 1-2 before and always admire how disruptive it can be early game. Late it's amazing too. But $275.... hard to call it worth that when you know most of the value is due to rarity.
It's not an auto-include like Mana Drain. If you're playing some kind of control deck you generally don't want to reboot your hand or everyone else's. Unlike Wheel of Fortune in red Blue has plenty of other quality card draw options in the color. I run it in my Niv-Mizzet deck and that's about it.
It's not an auto-include like Mana Drain. If you're playing some kind of control deck you generally don't want to reboot your hand or everyone else's. Unlike Wheel of Fortune in red Blue has plenty of other quality card draw options in the color. I run it in my Niv-Mizzet deck and that's about it.
It's actually very good disruption early on.
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I have had it proxied (while testing it) in my melek deck for a few months - and it's absolutely integral to the deck. It's way better than Time Spiral, because Spiral exiles itself.
I find myself often casting Timetwister 5+ times a game. There's no other blue effect that's recurrable like that - so it IS unique in it's usage.
I'm looking to pick one up sometime soon. I have a contact that might have one available for me before too long - but I won't know for a bit.
It seems like overkill in terms of cost for effect.
Windfall costs nothing in comparison, but does almost the same thing. Unless you REALLY need it to work like timetwister or you need all of these sorts of effects that you can possibly get, I would not bother with one.
It seems like overkill in terms of cost for effect.
Windfall costs nothing in comparison, but does almost the same thing. Unless you REALLY need it to work like timetwister or you need all of these sorts of effects that you can possibly get, I would not bother with one.
This. Also, graveyard recursion is a thing, so in a lot of cases Windfall is better.
This. Also, graveyard recursion is a thing, so in a lot of cases Windfall is better.
I guess it depends on who's graveyarding. Usually in my Melek, my unanswered EOT Cyclonic Rift > Main phase Timetwister will usually elicit GG Tablescoops from my crew.
I do have it and I think I've never played it in any of my EDH decks but once just because it was expensive.
Pro: It's good against milling and graveyard decks
It can manalock someone if played in the first few turns
You can recur your graveyard
You draw 7 cards for cheap
Con: It's bad against your own graveyard tricks
It can undo the card advantage you built over time
It can let your opponent draw the counterspell he needs to disrupt your combo
I don't think it's good most of the time unless you've a combo deck or goes through your library exceptionally fast. Graveyard tends to be the most abused resource in EDH but Timetwister prevents it.
I have no insight on the card itself, having never seen it used, but as P9 on the reserve list, its value will only go up, so from a collectors viewpoint if you can afford it, go for it.
I play Timetwister in one of my decks, primarily as graveyard hate that is uniquely tutorable by Isperia, the Inscrutable (via Drift of Phantasms) that happens to draw me lots of cards if I draw it naturally, plus recycle some guys for my commander to fetch up again.
Opponents typically seem happy to "get their stuff back" too, but I don't care about a B/R Wort player with Worldgorger Dragon in his library -- I care about a B/R Wort player with a Worldgorger Dragon in his graveyard.
All in all, if a cheaper option will work for what you need it to do, go for the cheaper option. Save $270 bucks and get 270 double cheeseburgers or something.
I don't doubt it has excellent uses and I think it's an excellent card. But the OP is asking if it's an "auto-include". He then asked if it compared it to Mana Drain in terms of being useful. I think it's a useful card, but unlike Mana Drain I don't think you should shove it into every deck with islands.
It's strategically awesome (i.e. an auto-include) ONLY if you're running lots of artifact ramp such that you have reasonable potential to cast it on T1-T2 when it's in your opening hand. It's an auto-include in most of my decks, but that's because most of my decks are combo decks eg Arcum and Azami that try to win on T6 or earlier and who get most of their gameplay done within the first four turns.
If you're playing a midrange or lategame deck (i.e. T7+), 'twister still a really good card and is definitely worth considering for a slot, but it isn't a guaranteed auto-include like it is when you're running every mana rock six ways to Sunday.
That said, should you buy it? As cryogen pointed out, at least its value will most certainly not depreciate. If you play competitive U-based combo decks a lot, then it'll see a lot of usage. It certainly doesn't always belong in every blue deck like Mana Drain--it's a little more situational.
its fantastic. people really under-appreciate just how many roles it can fill. Combo, hand disruption, graveyard removal, draw effect... There's a lot of utlity in that kind of effect and the fact it can be repeated is just gravy
I have had it proxied (while testing it) in my melek deck for a few months - and it's absolutely integral to the deck. It's way better than Time Spiral, because Spiral exiles itself.
I find myself often casting Timetwister 5+ times a game. There's no other blue effect that's recurrable like that - so it IS unique in it's usage.
I'm looking to pick one up sometime soon. I have a contact that might have one available for me before too long - but I won't know for a bit.
Strange since in my Melek deck, Time Spiral is way better because of the untap 6 lands, which stacks twice when on top or 3-4 times with fork effects. You only really need 1-2 twister effects to win the game.
It's not an auto-include like Mana Drain. If you're playing some kind of control deck you generally don't want to reboot your hand or everyone else's. Unlike Wheel of Fortune in red Blue has plenty of other quality card draw options in the color. I run it in my Niv-Mizzet deck and that's about it.
I agree with Kevin's line of thinking... it doesn't go in every deck.
If you're specifically running a deck that needs the effect, then it's a good card. Even for the decks that want the effect though, Time Spiral is usually more powerful; the extra mana is typically more relevant than the chance to recast it later in the game. Yeah, if you get the nut draw and emtpy your hand on turn 2 and draw 7 it's really crazy, but so are a lot of other busted openers.
If I had to spend $275 on Magic cards, I'd rather get extra duals
I guess it depends on who's graveyarding. Usually in my Melek, my unanswered EOT Cyclonic Rift > Main phase Timetwister will usually elicit GG Tablescoops from my crew.
This alone is making me want to buy that card. For my Melek deck it would indeed be pretty much GG for my foes.
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If you play with sleeves and your playgroup is okay with it, an alternative is to accquire a collector's edition version. Square-bordered, it still fits into sleeves (even the perfect-fit type), and has a gold-bordered back so that the front still looks nice.
Timetwister is very good. It's not something that you can just put into every deck though, like Mana Drain. But in the decks it's good in it's head and heels stronger then anything else you could be doing for the cost.
Definitely an auto-include in every single Blue deck, just like Windfall.
All of the cards banned in Legacy for power reasons are auto-includes in this format, even more so the cards that are restricted in Vintage. Granted, some of them fail to astound in decks that are not built around them, but even so, they are auto-includes in their least-powerful use. It's the decks that are built with the acknowledgement that these cards are in them that can really use these cards to blow open games.
So worst case, you've got a sick draw spell that you should run above even Thirst for Knowledge, Time Spiral, and Fact or Fiction. So it's the best draw spell in your deck, maybe second to Wheel of Fortune depending on how much you use your grave. Worst case.
Best case, imagine Memory Jar, Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, and Timetwister in the same deck, along with tutors. There's no card in your deck you can't reliably get now by Turn 4-5 or so, and from then on, it's just a question of making it a card you can win with. Grixis combo decks just need to run cards like this, Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor in addition to what's commonly available to just be strictly unbeatable in this format.
I've owned one for a couple of years now, and it doesn't go in every deck, but it sure goes in most of them.
The graveyard hate can be clutch, it can be a powerful draw spell if you play some card disadvantage effects (like Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and mana rocks in general). It's also the worst kind of nightmare on the back of Cyclonic, or Turbulent Dreams (I have a deck with every blue shuffle+draw7, and I suspect Turbulent Dreams will be as much of a house as Cyclonic).
I guess it depends on who's graveyarding. Usually in my Melek, my unanswered EOT Cyclonic Rift > Main phase Timetwister will usually elicit GG Tablescoops from my crew.
But in that case, what does it do that Wheel of Fortune won't do? The effect is just too readily available on other cards, at a fraction of the (monetary) cost.
Is this card useable in every deck that plays islands? Is it an auto-include?
For people who have one - Are you playing it because it's strategically awesome, or because it feels wasteful not to play a $275+ card when you have the chance?
To preclude the suggestion that I should use the money to buy a bunch of other staples - I know I could (and should), but I have most of them already - (12+ years of trading/collecting) and I'm looking to expand my deck building possibilities.
I was timid about picking up mana drain for commander, but I'm glad I did. It goes into every blue commander deck and I'm always happy to draw it. Is timetwister similarly useful/good?
I love the card and it's on my short list of cards I still need. I've seen it go off on turn 1-2 before and always admire how disruptive it can be early game. Late it's amazing too. But $275.... hard to call it worth that when you know most of the value is due to rarity.
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It's actually very good disruption early on.
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I find myself often casting Timetwister 5+ times a game. There's no other blue effect that's recurrable like that - so it IS unique in it's usage.
I'm looking to pick one up sometime soon. I have a contact that might have one available for me before too long - but I won't know for a bit.
Windfall costs nothing in comparison, but does almost the same thing. Unless you REALLY need it to work like timetwister or you need all of these sorts of effects that you can possibly get, I would not bother with one.
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This. Also, graveyard recursion is a thing, so in a lot of cases Windfall is better.
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I guess it depends on who's graveyarding. Usually in my Melek, my unanswered EOT Cyclonic Rift > Main phase Timetwister will usually elicit GG Tablescoops from my crew.
Pro: It's good against milling and graveyard decks
It can manalock someone if played in the first few turns
You can recur your graveyard
You draw 7 cards for cheap
Con: It's bad against your own graveyard tricks
It can undo the card advantage you built over time
It can let your opponent draw the counterspell he needs to disrupt your combo
I don't think it's good most of the time unless you've a combo deck or goes through your library exceptionally fast. Graveyard tends to be the most abused resource in EDH but Timetwister prevents it.
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Opponents typically seem happy to "get their stuff back" too, but I don't care about a B/R Wort player with Worldgorger Dragon in his library -- I care about a B/R Wort player with a Worldgorger Dragon in his graveyard.
All in all, if a cheaper option will work for what you need it to do, go for the cheaper option. Save $270 bucks and get 270 double cheeseburgers or something.
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I don't doubt it has excellent uses and I think it's an excellent card. But the OP is asking if it's an "auto-include". He then asked if it compared it to Mana Drain in terms of being useful. I think it's a useful card, but unlike Mana Drain I don't think you should shove it into every deck with islands.
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If you're playing a midrange or lategame deck (i.e. T7+), 'twister still a really good card and is definitely worth considering for a slot, but it isn't a guaranteed auto-include like it is when you're running every mana rock six ways to Sunday.
That said, should you buy it? As cryogen pointed out, at least its value will most certainly not depreciate. If you play competitive U-based combo decks a lot, then it'll see a lot of usage. It certainly doesn't always belong in every blue deck like Mana Drain--it's a little more situational.
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Strange since in my Melek deck, Time Spiral is way better because of the untap 6 lands, which stacks twice when on top or 3-4 times with fork effects. You only really need 1-2 twister effects to win the game.
I agree with Kevin's line of thinking... it doesn't go in every deck.
If you're specifically running a deck that needs the effect, then it's a good card. Even for the decks that want the effect though, Time Spiral is usually more powerful; the extra mana is typically more relevant than the chance to recast it later in the game. Yeah, if you get the nut draw and emtpy your hand on turn 2 and draw 7 it's really crazy, but so are a lot of other busted openers.
If I had to spend $275 on Magic cards, I'd rather get extra duals
This alone is making me want to buy that card. For my Melek deck it would indeed be pretty much GG for my foes.
1) I just wanted it. I have played on and off since Revised. I have never owned any of the P9. I do now.
2) It is the only P9 that I can play locally since it is playable in EDH.
3) It works in a deck I am playing. Namely Niv-mits combo.
For me reasons 1 and 2 lead to 3. If you are on the fence, then I say look for other cards that you will play.
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There's also cards like Gaea's Cradle I've wanted to test but I take it you have the "lesser expensive of the expensive" ones already.
On Timetwister itself:
Is it good? Yes. Is it great? Yes. Will you love it? Yes
I'd make an Izzet deck around it.
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All of the cards banned in Legacy for power reasons are auto-includes in this format, even more so the cards that are restricted in Vintage. Granted, some of them fail to astound in decks that are not built around them, but even so, they are auto-includes in their least-powerful use. It's the decks that are built with the acknowledgement that these cards are in them that can really use these cards to blow open games.
So worst case, you've got a sick draw spell that you should run above even Thirst for Knowledge, Time Spiral, and Fact or Fiction. So it's the best draw spell in your deck, maybe second to Wheel of Fortune depending on how much you use your grave. Worst case.
Best case, imagine Memory Jar, Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, and Timetwister in the same deck, along with tutors. There's no card in your deck you can't reliably get now by Turn 4-5 or so, and from then on, it's just a question of making it a card you can win with. Grixis combo decks just need to run cards like this, Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor in addition to what's commonly available to just be strictly unbeatable in this format.
The graveyard hate can be clutch, it can be a powerful draw spell if you play some card disadvantage effects (like Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and mana rocks in general). It's also the worst kind of nightmare on the back of Cyclonic, or Turbulent Dreams (I have a deck with every blue shuffle+draw7, and I suspect Turbulent Dreams will be as much of a house as Cyclonic).
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But in that case, what does it do that Wheel of Fortune won't do? The effect is just too readily available on other cards, at a fraction of the (monetary) cost.
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