just for fun i was trying to think of ways you could win on turn 0 with a 6 card god-hand and a leyline of anticipation . Oviously the first card taht came to mind was Ad Nausuam but that requires a god draw as well. I want to see what crazy 0 kills you guys can think up. ill start her off
I'm sorry but I have to ask, how does this win the game? Is there a step/piece missing? Or am I missing something?
The reanimation enchantment will be exiled by the Dragon EtB trigger. This causes the dragon to die and everything that was exiled to come back into play including the reanimation enchant, bringing back the Dragon. Ad infinitum. You can float mana in response to the EtB trigger and after a few loops float mana to cast the Hellkite, which will be "blinked" by the Dragon triggers. The Hellkite does 5 enough times to kill everyone.
Edit: I said that wrong. Floating mana doesn't use the stack so it's not a "response." My bad. But what I said is generally correct.
I'm sorry but I have to ask, how does this win the game? Is there a step/piece missing? Or am I missing something?
Yes. Because the worldgorger-animate is still a loop. But once he has eight mana he can Hellkite in response, and then the loop will continue which will continually blink the Hellkite.
One potential way to combo with your library in your grave is flashing back Dread Return targeting Crypt Champion, which you can then use to return Saffi Eriksdotter. You recur these two creatures an arbitrarily large amount of times and then break the loop by returning Caller of the Claw. With Anger in your graveyard, swing for an arbitrarily large amount of 2/2 bears. In order to flashback Dread Return, you sac Hermit Druid, Narcomoeba, and I would suggest either Basking Rootwalla which can be returned for it's madness cost off of the Lion's Eye discarding your hand, or you can use Elvish Spirit Guide to activate Hermit Druid to save the Lion's Eye for unearthing Fatestitcher.
This was a relatively half-baked idea, I've never actually played Hermit Druid combo so I had to do a bit of research, but in my understanding this works just fine. I'd be interested to see if this could be done without Leyline, or without having to wait until your combat step...
Oh, great, you discovered turn 0 and 1 kills in EDH. That is what we needed and have been waiting so far. Please proceed to the vintage forums and leave my format alone. And take all the others of your kind, which play for winning as fast as possible, with you.
Relax, this is just some fun theory-crafting. It's an interesting challenge and a testament to your Magic knowledge, no one would run this kind of deck in a casual or playgroup setting. Besides, the turn 0 aspect only works if you have the perfect 6 or 7 cards required for the combo to work, highly unreliable.
I don't believe that works, because the gemstone caverns would come back without a counter and only produce colorless. Could work with Trisky though, maybe?
Oh, great, you discovered turn 0 and 1 kills in EDH. That is what we needed and have been waiting so far. Please proceed to the vintage forums and leave my format alone. And take all the others of your kind, which play for winning as fast as possible, with you.
"Some one plays in a way that's different from how I choose to play. They are what's wrong with the game and killing my format." Or... you know... you could realize that EDH is a casual format and a lot of people play it very differently. (not to mention that these require nut draws...)
I personally find them all very interesting and will be checking back here just to see them. Sadly I don't have much to contribute, other than these are awesome
The beauty of this hand is there's not just one way to do it. As long as you end with enough mana to Windfall, you got so much value. The other 5 cards can be multiple combinations of the following:
Oh, great, you discovered turn 0 and 1 kills in EDH. That is what we needed and have been waiting so far. Please proceed to the vintage forums and leave my format alone. And take all the others of your kind, which play for winning as fast as possible, with you.
People who think that the format is "theirs" are way more damaging to the health of it than people doing thought experiments.
"Some one plays in a way that's different from how I choose to play. They are what's wrong with the game and killing my format." Or... you know... you could realize that EDH is a casual format and a lot of people play it very differently. (not to mention that these require nut draws...)
I personally find them all very interesting and will be checking back here just to see them. Sadly I don't have much to contribute, other than these are awesome
Yeah, I have no interest in tedious Ad Nauseum/Hermit Druid shenanigans, but it's still pretty interesting to see these sorts of thought experiments. God hands are natural, albeit very infrequent, part of the game, and you're more likely to recognize them for what they are, and be able to capitalize upon them, if you've given some thought to this sort of scenario. I'm not likely to get these specific ones, given that I own neither LED nor Mana Crypt, and am unlikely to get either any time soon, but I've occasionally gotten crazy-good opening hands in Jor Kadeen and in Glissa that put me way ahead of opponents from the get-go.
Play the land and cast Dark Ritual into Doomsday. Search for Laboratory Maniac, Street Wraith, Necropotence, Lotus Petal and Mana Crypt. Get Necro on top. Cast LED and Probe. In resp to Probe, crack LED, play Necro you just drew and exile the last 4 cards in your deck with it. In end step, cast Lotus Petal, Crypt and Maniac and cycle Wraith ftw. Same thing as OP basically, but 1 card less and Duel Commander legal:P
Yea you can do my oringinal pile with 6 cards if you take Ideas Unbound out fo the hand and slip it and Street Wratih into the pile for mana vault and top
The Pact Hivemind pile is pretty sweet with leyline and a petal instead of land that a turn 0 (hopefully you play first and do it on upkeep XD)
Mana into Show and tell Omniscience into any tutor into a split tutor / inter the infinite seems pretty darn awesome.
I expected to see WGD combo you can also use and multi X spell like Rolling Thunder ( this is the first combo i ever saw get a turn 1 kill any format unless you count raging goblin hatred rituals petals)
The windfall/ wheel hands can get silly as can Ad nausuam which shows why they are so powerful it lets you turn a 6 card hand with leyline into floating mana on board perms and a new 7.
Poor Protean Hulk Flash and you would make an pretty easy win :(((
Acknowledge that there is a difference between thinking about something and doing something.
This is a thought exercise, some people might build decks and try to make this happen, but honestly winning on Turn 0 is the least satisfying game of Magic, even for the victor, and I believe most people in this forum acknowledge that.
I've always loved these thought exercises. They remind me of the chess board positions in newspapers where you have to find the checkmate move, but are more interesting (to me) because they are magic.
The people who created EDH named it Elder Dragon Highlander. They used iconic creatures like chromium and Vaevictis Asmadi and bashed each other for 7 in the air. They didn't use the cheapest, most broken commanders, which WERE available back then. They used iconic, story-related creatures. So, now you tell me turn0/1 combo is in the sense of EDH?
Turn 0/1/2/3 combo players can of course exist and play against each other. But this forum is infested with them which gives other reading people the impression almost everyone would think like these people, with mindsets that are detrimental to the idea of EDH. So it's important to state the other, bigger, casual, not-just-play-for-the-win-with-all-means voice.
The "bigger, casual" way is the vastly more popular way to play. The turn 0 thought experiment people are few in number. Let us have our fun. Not everything is about you.
Turn 0 wins are an interesting thought exercise but in a real life game that just means:
- you show your hand to everyone
- explain how you win
- declare yourself the winner
- everyone else waits while you shuffle up a new hand so they can get started on a real game
I've always loved these thought exercises. They remind me of the chess board positions in newspapers where you have to find the checkmate move, but are more interesting (to me) because they are magic.
me too. they actually remind me of those old puzzles in Duelist magazine
I would so love to see someone Pact of Negation or Force of Will the Maniac in that original setup. Who cares if you die due to the Pact in a multiplayer game, it would be worth it.
That said, these kind of thought experiments are kinda cool and if they happen once in a blue moon can be quite entertaining.
If i had the cards in my hand. i would exile Pact to force of will. (Actually i'v sen that happen)
Oh, great, you discovered turn 0 and 1 kills in EDH. That is what we needed and have been waiting so far. Please proceed to the vintage forums and leave my format alone. And take all the others of your kind, which play for winning as fast as possible, with you.
You must be fun at parties.
Lightening the mood, Doomsday is my favorite turn 0 kill due to the finesse it requires, and nostalgia. I dont think i would ever build a deck to do so, but it would be fun.
Hand
The game just started and its not your turn but before the guy going first even gets to draw out comes leyline
drop LED
petal > DR > DD
Pile
Yawgmoth's Will
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Labratory Maniac
Senseis Divining top
Cast probe cracking LED for BBB
Cast Yawgwin
Recast LED Crack for UUU
Recast Idead Unbound from the yard
play Mana crypt tap and play mana vault Tap then play Labratory Maniac
recast Gitaxin Probe for free to draw top
Play Your top and flop it for your turn 0 win!
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
It is impressive though. Its also extremely unlikely to work in a real game
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Any B/R land
Dark Ritual
Entomb ( worldgorger dragon
Animate Dead or dance of the dead
Floating all the man as in between a loop cast bogarden hellkite at flash speed to win game.
Using a gemstone caverns and leyline of anticipation it can be a turn zero.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I'm sorry but I have to ask, how does this win the game? Is there a step/piece missing? Or am I missing something?
The reanimation enchantment will be exiled by the Dragon EtB trigger. This causes the dragon to die and everything that was exiled to come back into play including the reanimation enchant, bringing back the Dragon. Ad infinitum. You can float mana in response to the EtB trigger and after a few loops float mana to cast the Hellkite, which will be "blinked" by the Dragon triggers. The Hellkite does 5 enough times to kill everyone.
Edit: I said that wrong. Floating mana doesn't use the stack so it's not a "response." My bad. But what I said is generally correct.
Yes. Because the worldgorger-animate is still a loop. But once he has eight mana he can Hellkite in response, and then the loop will continue which will continually blink the Hellkite.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
this even allows a free space
2 Lotus Petal
3 Entomb
4 Mana Crypt
5 Postmortem Lunge
6 Lion's Eye Diamond
Leyline comes into play. Play Lotus Petal and crack it to cast Entomb for Hermit Druid. Play Mana Crypt to cast Postmortem Lunge targeting Hermit Druid. Play Lion's Eye Diamond to activate Hermit Druid's haste-y ability. Proceed to combo. Not only does this require only 6 cards, but you'll also have 2 mana floating.
One potential way to combo with your library in your grave is flashing back Dread Return targeting Crypt Champion, which you can then use to return Saffi Eriksdotter. You recur these two creatures an arbitrarily large amount of times and then break the loop by returning Caller of the Claw. With Anger in your graveyard, swing for an arbitrarily large amount of 2/2 bears. In order to flashback Dread Return, you sac Hermit Druid, Narcomoeba, and I would suggest either Basking Rootwalla which can be returned for it's madness cost off of the Lion's Eye discarding your hand, or you can use Elvish Spirit Guide to activate Hermit Druid to save the Lion's Eye for unearthing Fatestitcher.
This was a relatively half-baked idea, I've never actually played Hermit Druid combo so I had to do a bit of research, but in my understanding this works just fine. I'd be interested to see if this could be done without Leyline, or without having to wait until your combat step...
[EDIT] Just had a Brainstorm. It unfortunately requires all 7 cards AND a perfect top deck, but this is all hypothetical anyways. Leyline comes into play, then cast Lotus Petal, Mana Crypt and tap them to cast Manamorphose (drawing your eighth card) to leave you with 1GB floating. Cast Dark Ritual into Entomb getting Hermit Druid so you have 1GBB floating. Cast Postmortem Lunge and activate Hermit Druid. Return Narcomoeba and use that floating B to unearth Dregscape Zombie. You now have your three creatures, Dread Return Laboratory Maniac and use your eighth card, Gitaxian Probe, to draw for the win.
Relax, this is just some fun theory-crafting. It's an interesting challenge and a testament to your Magic knowledge, no one would run this kind of deck in a casual or playgroup setting. Besides, the turn 0 aspect only works if you have the perfect 6 or 7 cards required for the combo to work, highly unreliable.
Sharuum | Damia | Hermit Druid
I don't believe that works, because the gemstone caverns would come back without a counter and only produce colorless. Could work with Trisky though, maybe?
"Some one plays in a way that's different from how I choose to play. They are what's wrong with the game and killing my format." Or... you know... you could realize that EDH is a casual format and a lot of people play it very differently. (not to mention that these require nut draws...)
I personally find them all very interesting and will be checking back here just to see them. Sadly I don't have much to contribute, other than these are awesome
Tappedout
Cubetutor
2 Windfall
The beauty of this hand is there's not just one way to do it. As long as you end with enough mana to Windfall, you got so much value. The other 5 cards can be multiple combinations of the following:
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
5 Manamorphose
6 Mana Crypt
7 Mana Vault
8 Sol Ring
9 Mox Diamond
10 Chrome Mox
11 Gemstone Caverns
12 Lion's Eye Diamond
Also instead of Windfall, you can use Wheel of Fortune, Memory Jar, Whispering Madness or Time Spiral. A lot of versatility here. Once you Windfall, you have a whole new hand with plenty of mana.
Here's just one example of what I'd do from there: Use Show and Tell to cheat in Tidesprout Tyrant and use Mana Crypt and Mana Vault/Sol Ring to make infinite colorless. You can then use more Windfall effects or tutors until you can cast Omniscience/Dream Halls into Enter the Infinite, or even a Blue Sun's Zenith effect (there's plenty of them) with your infinite colorless. Tada! You have a deck full of cards in your hand that you can cast for free. Overkill, I know.
Sharuum | Damia | Hermit Druid
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Hive Mind
1x Pact of the Titan
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
People who think that the format is "theirs" are way more damaging to the health of it than people doing thought experiments.
Yeah, I have no interest in tedious Ad Nauseum/Hermit Druid shenanigans, but it's still pretty interesting to see these sorts of thought experiments. God hands are natural, albeit very infrequent, part of the game, and you're more likely to recognize them for what they are, and be able to capitalize upon them, if you've given some thought to this sort of scenario. I'm not likely to get these specific ones, given that I own neither LED nor Mana Crypt, and am unlikely to get either any time soon, but I've occasionally gotten crazy-good opening hands in Jor Kadeen and in Glissa that put me way ahead of opponents from the get-go.
Yea you can do my oringinal pile with 6 cards if you take Ideas Unbound out fo the hand and slip it and Street Wratih into the pile for mana vault and top
The Pact Hivemind pile is pretty sweet with leyline and a petal instead of land that a turn 0 (hopefully you play first and do it on upkeep XD)
Mana into Show and tell Omniscience into any tutor into a split tutor / inter the infinite seems pretty darn awesome.
I expected to see WGD combo you can also use and multi X spell like Rolling Thunder ( this is the first combo i ever saw get a turn 1 kill any format unless you count raging goblin hatred rituals petals)
The windfall/ wheel hands can get silly as can Ad nausuam which shows why they are so powerful it lets you turn a 6 card hand with leyline into floating mana on board perms and a new 7.
Poor Protean Hulk Flash and you would make an pretty easy win :(((
but we can sub in and Flash Academy Reactor With omniscience and Show and Tell for 1 less mana in those hands!!!
Heres one thats Fun! i knew i could win with Tooth and Nail on Turn 0
Leyline of Anticipation
Culling of the Weak
Petal
Phyrexian walker
Ornithopter
Demonic Tutor
Lions eye Diamond
Cast petal for culling
cast the 0 drops sac them for 8B
play LED
Cast Demonic Tutor Cracking LED for GGG
Grab Tooth and Nail
Entwine for trike Mike
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
My Blog About It
This is a thought exercise, some people might build decks and try to make this happen, but honestly winning on Turn 0 is the least satisfying game of Magic, even for the victor, and I believe most people in this forum acknowledge that.
The "bigger, casual" way is the vastly more popular way to play. The turn 0 thought experiment people are few in number. Let us have our fun. Not everything is about you.
- you show your hand to everyone
- explain how you win
- declare yourself the winner
- everyone else waits while you shuffle up a new hand so they can get started on a real game
2 Leyline of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
4 Sol Ring
5 Mana Crypt
6 Mox Opal
7 Helm of Obedience
You don't force the kill, but you can pull it off before the draw.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
me too. they actually remind me of those old puzzles in Duelist magazine
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
If i had the cards in my hand. i would exile Pact to force of will. (Actually i'v sen that happen)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
You must be fun at parties.
Lightening the mood, Doomsday is my favorite turn 0 kill due to the finesse it requires, and nostalgia. I dont think i would ever build a deck to do so, but it would be fun.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown