helvault
worth it? the exile creature ability is expensive, but
a) redirect doesn't work well
b) you can use it again( more than once with a combo/ clock of omens and its ilk)
c) GY triggers are useless
Too expensive to use on opponents while too fragile to be used on yourself unless you have some way to sacrifice it. It's also slow.
Basically if you had the mana to cast and use it right away it might be a decent rattlesnake-esque card. Into the Core or Return to Dust makes using it on yourself risky.
Mono-Red is about the only place I'd use it, and even then I have other options. While being reusable is a good thing, the sheer amount of mana needed to exile 2 creatures in a single turn is hellish for anything outside of mono-colored decks with access to a ton of doublers (Green, Red, Black). Worse, they can get the creatures back.
I much prefer Brittle Effigy, even if it's typically a one-shot effect.
I run this in Captain Sisay as a backup to Ulamog and Mangara, but I don't think I would run it anywhere else. There's many better artifacts to kill stuff with, permanently.
I'd want to use it as a Safe Haven for my own creatures, but not so much on other players' due to the activation cost. A potential side-use would be to take out uber-tokens, like created with Progenitor Mimic, but that's corner-casey.
It's tough to say any card is wholly, completely, and utterly bad, since that would suggest it has no applicability in any scenario, which of course is an impossible statement to make in a wacky format like EDH.
That said, in the majority of scenarios, Helvault is pretty bad. If its activation cost were 5 or lower, I think it'd be more playable.
Neat flavor, though. Just imagine Avacyn popping out of that thing with a choir of angels and blinding radiance and fluttering dove-things.
With the rise in ETB creatures taking over this game I think the ability is pretty risky in general. I can see this card having uses in protecting artifact creatures from mass removal or if your general will allow you to exile permanents (Mangara of Corondor?) but if you're just going to plop it into mono R or G you are taking a huge risk letting your opponents decide when all those creatures come back into play. I suppose if you could stifle the trigger that would be good too?
I considered it in Child of Alara for awhile. Then I realized it could only target creatures and decided against it. I like it for the Safe Haven effect, it could be a useful card but it's risky.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
If it had its own sac effect it'd be worth something. It's good in Zirilan if you run artifact sac outlets -- but, at that point, why not just run creature sac outlets? Then you can just Zirilan for Hoarding Dragon for Sundial of the Infinite and keep your dragons forever anyway.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
2UURRniv mizzet, the firemind endless fiery mind wheels of death 3WRjor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever 3RRzirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers 4:SymRG::SymRG:wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable 2WUkangee, aerie keeper birds 1UBRjeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
I had it in Zirilian of the Claw for a while as a way to get a second use out of my dragons but I found that although it was a cheap trigger it was way to fragile since my playgroup would destroy it in response to the exile trigger to keep my dragon away permanently. I did however enjoy it when I was using it to exile my opponents stuff as long as it didn't have an enter the battlefield trigger or leaves play trigger.
worth it? the exile creature ability is expensive, but
a) redirect doesn't work well
b) you can use it again( more than once with a combo/ clock of omens and its ilk)
c) GY triggers are useless
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Basically if you had the mana to cast and use it right away it might be a decent rattlesnake-esque card. Into the Core or Return to Dust makes using it on yourself risky.
Building silly decks for silly games.
I much prefer Brittle Effigy, even if it's typically a one-shot effect.
Driving Stick with Isochron Scepter.
Trinkets and Treasure: An Artificer's Toolbox.
Proc Drops: Playing with One Drops.
Deck Primer: Toshiro Umezawa
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
That said, in the majority of scenarios, Helvault is pretty bad. If its activation cost were 5 or lower, I think it'd be more playable.
Neat flavor, though. Just imagine Avacyn popping out of that thing with a choir of angels and blinding radiance and fluttering dove-things.
Legacy: GWR Enchantress <--That's my banner! (lol tinypic removed it)
Casual: WB [[Primer]]Clerics Tribal; BU Affinity
EDH: ...U [[Primer]]Arcum Dagsson; BG Legal Stax; B Illegal Stax
Proxy: .WX TriniStax
Other stuff: [[Official]]Shuffling, Truth + Maths
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
3WR jor kadeen, the prevailer weenies and extra combat forever
3RR zirilan of the claw dragons and damage doublers
4:SymRG::SymRG: wort, the raidmother burn is now EDH viable
2WU kangee, aerie keeper birds
1UBR jeleva, nephalia's scourge spellslinger/storm
here are the mana costs of generals i no longer play: 2BR3BB3UBG4UB:SymUB::SymUB:2URRG3WWU2UU2GGUUBGG
3UWR numot, the devastator of [the spirit of edh]
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)