It it doesn't cost B or 1B, the card just isn't worth it. Discard based cards are very situational and just not useful unless some combination of powerful and/or cheap to cast.
If only this could've been a black Primeval Bounty...
Feast of Flesh 4BB
Enchantment (M)
Whenever a creature dies, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token OTB.
Whenever you cast a spell, each opponent loses 1 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way.
Whenever you play a land, target creature gets -1/-1 until EOT.
I'll say it again. This card will be played *at least* in grixis decks at 6 mana, with no wording changes.
For example casting Wheel of Fortune in a 4 player will net you 10-15 triggers, be they zombies, mana, or additional draw. With all that extra draw you should be able to spend the mana, and you'll have an instant army to let you survive till next turn.
I didn't create this thread to argue about viability though, but to explore synergies and card interactions. Anybody feel like contributing to the thread topic? Or you just want to argue some more?
I would have loved this card if it didn't benefited its controller with each of its modes. The way it is right now is boring - I don't like all upside cards, but this is the current trend. I would have loved it if it was:
Revenge of Necromancy BBB
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent discards a creature card, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
Whenever an opponent discards a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card.
I'll say it again. This card will be played *at least* in grixis decks at 6 mana, with no wording changes.
I didn't create this thread to argue about viability though, but to explore synergies and card interactions. Anybody feel like contributing to the thread topic? Or you just want to argue some more?
Depending how much they cost it at, this card can see play in discard decks (surprise, surprise).
Your one with nothing still doesn't do anything. RoN only triggers off opponent discarding.
oh derp
i still like it for an edh deck with a bunch of wheels though. it would make for a really fun Sedris, the Traitor King deck; run stuff like mindslicer, sac outlets including sadistic hypnotist, along with his best friend reassembling skeleton, a bunch of reanimator spells from animate dead to dread return to get out sheoldred & company, use blue & red's draw/discard effects to pick your draws & self-mill. this new card could lead to some explosive turns
Guys, maybe I'm in the "I enjoy trying things" minority here, but how exactly is this a bad card?
Because the second option will be irrelevant most of the time?
You've still the possibility of drawing cards and creating 2/2 zombies. Alongside a dedicated discard suite, how exactly is that bad in CMDR, or even constructed formats?
I mean, most of the time you won't be able to control what your opponent discards. But selective hand removal/mass discard is a real thing in this format, and is quite popular at that. This just aids that strategy by adding another stack-effect.
So please, someone explain to me how this card is bad, with reasoning outside of "the other cards were better".
@kaison: Absolutely correct. is 3 CMC too low for this?
Thank you for not being so utterly pessimistic, I'm not sure what people were expecting, but this is actually a pretty good casual card and if second mode was pushed to three mana it could play a lot a removal spells instant speed on its own, not to mention first and third are very good abilities.
People don't need to look down at discard as being a dark time in their past, if you're not trying to win in three turns, discard can be an interesting strategy. If this costs 5 or 6 it will be unplayable, so I hope it is 3 mana prersonally.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Green and/or white card synergies: Balance, Balancing Act, Restore Balance, Nath of the Gilt-Leaf. Not too much to work with but Balance + discard/sac outlet could win you the game with this.
This isn't true. What you said is basically a faulty caricature of what EDH is, and also why people hate the format.
Or alternately, why a lot of people love the format. Timmy/Johnny/Spike exists as much if not more in EDH, and is why there's so much back and forth debate on what the format means/is/should be/etc.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:
Shirei: Lambs to the Slaughter
Slobad: Every Day I'm Tinkering
Molimo: Forest for the Trees
Shandlar: Vanilla Dudes Go Rawr
Stonebrow:: Gruuling Beatdown
Isperia: Flying Tribal
Grimgrin: Zombieland
Tajic: One Man Army
:symuw::symb: Dakkon: The Blackblade Legacy
Perhaps, but sticking and saccing Mindslicer, using Myojin of Night's Reach's divinity counter, or reanimating Sire of Insanity EOT is more likely to lock everyone out of the game, and can eventually kill a table without usng cards that are only good 'some of the time.' I don't need this at any cmc really, just more consistent ways of wiping out everyone's hands and capitalizing on the aftermath.
There may be metas in which you can play this to great value, but it loses ground quickly to the more better tuned, faster curving lists where topical disruption and removal is more common, to say nothing of combo.
To chime in on the second point, I think alot of the disdain this format receives comes from the perception that this format can be played without concern for good resource management, curve, CA, and tempo, and all that other 'highbrow jargon' that occupies the headspace of "real competitive formats." They perceive the design of cards which were specifically designed for the commander format as emblematic of the format as a whole.
To an extent they're right. Our games are slower. Durdling is it not uncommon (though it probably should be). We concern ourselves with table politics when concidering cards like Sylvan Primordial and Deadeye Navigator where other formats couldn't care less what the rest of the table might think, say, or do. To say our metagames are diverse would be an understatement. In fact, discussing any metagame beyond the French 1v1 Dual format quickly devolves into vagueness and circular reasoning.
Depending how much they cost it at, this card can see play in discard decks (surprise, surprise).
Speaking as someone with a "discard deck", I wouldn't go near this card even if it were given the hyper-aggressive cost of BBB. If your aim is to cripple everyone's hands, you don't want to be wasting time on cards that only get good once you start firing off Mind Twists while everyone else develops their board. The classic example has always been Megrim, which is universally a bad card (even in this format!) outside of the most casual circles because a) it doesn't do anything on its own, and b) its requirements to trigger are time-sensitive.
The real place for Revenge of Necromancy to shine is alongside Wheel of Fortune, Memory Jar, Windfall, et al, as others have already said.
In EDH it is still trash. Really really disappointed with how YMTC turned out this time around. Should have been a land from the get-go. I mean I was ok with it being a black enchantment..while Eldritch Rites was in the running. Consuming Contract would have, at the very least, been more interesting than a worse Megrim.
Name is also really lame and does not fit the mechanics of the card at all flavorfully.
If only this could've been a black Primeval Bounty...
Feast of Flesh 4BB
Enchantment (M)
Whenever a creature dies, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token OTB.
Whenever you cast a spell, each opponent loses 1 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way.
Whenever you play a land, target creature gets -1/-1 until EOT.
Something like that??
I would be all.over.that. It's a card that rewards you for doing something that you actually normally do in a game of Magic. It's not niche and should create benefits for you right away. I'd probably push the cost downwards a bit more but it's a much more solid card than what we got.
RoN is frustratingly weak in a deck that's not dedicated to using it and if you are building your deck around RoN you're going to have an awful time. It's not your general so you're going to have to tutor it out and even then it probably won't be on the board long enough for you to extract a lot of card advantage from it.
Come to think of it this card would've been a lot more interesting as a legendary creature.
This card is a good example of why Forgotten Ancient is a cool card for me. Ancient, unlike this card, can go into many decks, disregarding the theme that it invites (with Ancient, a counter theme). This card puts you into a deck that causes discard, and that's all that that deck does. Anything else means that the enchantment more often than not will sit around doing nothing too often. Thus, Forgotten Ancient at the very least gets a spot in Skullbriar, but this new garbage will not even be worthwhile in Nath for me (give me Geth's Grimoire over it). I do not get much benefit with some 2/2 zombies or some extra mana that will go away before I can use it. I do benefit from drawing cards. This card has two uninteresting modes.
Ancient does not attract much attention from what I have seen, which is also important. Discard can get a person killed much more quickly in a game of EDH where I play, and this card is probably a decent-sized removal magnet.
I'm really on the fence about this. I guess it'll end up on the final wording of the card, but this may go into my Glissa deck that already features Liliana of the Veil and Sangromancer.
Gosh, I was really pulling for Blood in the Watering Can, though. It would've been easy to enable with some painlands/City of Brass in your mana base.
... if they tweak it so it also works on you discarding. As it is, I'd consider it unplayable even in EDH.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Feast of Flesh 4BB
Enchantment (M)
Whenever a creature dies, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token OTB.
Whenever you cast a spell, each opponent loses 1 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way.
Whenever you play a land, target creature gets -1/-1 until EOT.
Something like that??
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
For example casting Wheel of Fortune in a 4 player will net you 10-15 triggers, be they zombies, mana, or additional draw. With all that extra draw you should be able to spend the mana, and you'll have an instant army to let you survive till next turn.
I didn't create this thread to argue about viability though, but to explore synergies and card interactions. Anybody feel like contributing to the thread topic? Or you just want to argue some more?
Proud member of Fires Rf Salvation
Currently Playing:
BPack RatB
Modern:
WURRWU ControlRUW
Legacy:
UHigh TideU
UGTurbo EldraziGU
EDH:
RWURuhan Planeswalker ControlUWR
RGBProssh, Skyraider of KherBGR
Revenge of Necromancy
BBB
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent discards a creature card, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
Whenever an opponent discards a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card.
Depending how much they cost it at, this card can see play in discard decks (surprise, surprise).
WUBGR - Enchantment Realms - WUBGR
An all-enchantment EDH deck: 0 creatures, 0 artifacts, 0 instants and sorceries.
GBUWR - The Necrotic Teenager and its 1,000,000 Combos - GBUWR
A deck built around Necrotic Ooze and its many friends.
oh derp
i still like it for an edh deck with a bunch of wheels though. it would make for a really fun Sedris, the Traitor King deck; run stuff like mindslicer, sac outlets including sadistic hypnotist, along with his best friend reassembling skeleton, a bunch of reanimator spells from animate dead to dread return to get out sheoldred & company, use blue & red's draw/discard effects to pick your draws & self-mill. this new card could lead to some explosive turns
only thing that stinks i think is the name
Thank you for not being so utterly pessimistic, I'm not sure what people were expecting, but this is actually a pretty good casual card and if second mode was pushed to three mana it could play a lot a removal spells instant speed on its own, not to mention first and third are very good abilities.
People don't need to look down at discard as being a dark time in their past, if you're not trying to win in three turns, discard can be an interesting strategy. If this costs 5 or 6 it will be unplayable, so I hope it is 3 mana prersonally.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Proud member of Fires Rf Salvation
Currently Playing:
BPack RatB
Modern:
WURRWU ControlRUW
Legacy:
UHigh TideU
UGTurbo EldraziGU
EDH:
RWURuhan Planeswalker ControlUWR
RGBProssh, Skyraider of KherBGR
Sadistic Hypnotist with Bloodghast, Reassembling Skeleton, and Nether Traitor sounds like some value, if they haven't been mentioned yet.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Or alternately, why a lot of people love the format. Timmy/Johnny/Spike exists as much if not more in EDH, and is why there's so much back and forth debate on what the format means/is/should be/etc.
Shirei: Lambs to the Slaughter
Slobad: Every Day I'm Tinkering
Molimo: Forest for the Trees
Shandlar: Vanilla Dudes Go Rawr
Stonebrow:: Gruuling Beatdown
Isperia: Flying Tribal
Grimgrin: Zombieland
Tajic: One Man Army
:symuw::symb: Dakkon: The Blackblade Legacy
There may be metas in which you can play this to great value, but it loses ground quickly to the more better tuned, faster curving lists where topical disruption and removal is more common, to say nothing of combo.
To chime in on the second point, I think alot of the disdain this format receives comes from the perception that this format can be played without concern for good resource management, curve, CA, and tempo, and all that other 'highbrow jargon' that occupies the headspace of "real competitive formats." They perceive the design of cards which were specifically designed for the commander format as emblematic of the format as a whole.
To an extent they're right. Our games are slower. Durdling is it not uncommon (though it probably should be). We concern ourselves with table politics when concidering cards like Sylvan Primordial and Deadeye Navigator where other formats couldn't care less what the rest of the table might think, say, or do. To say our metagames are diverse would be an understatement. In fact, discussing any metagame beyond the French 1v1 Dual format quickly devolves into vagueness and circular reasoning.
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
Playable at cmc <= 4, but at 4 I need a ley line or the rancor ability.
Speaking as someone with a "discard deck", I wouldn't go near this card even if it were given the hyper-aggressive cost of BBB. If your aim is to cripple everyone's hands, you don't want to be wasting time on cards that only get good once you start firing off Mind Twists while everyone else develops their board. The classic example has always been Megrim, which is universally a bad card (even in this format!) outside of the most casual circles because a) it doesn't do anything on its own, and b) its requirements to trigger are time-sensitive.
The real place for Revenge of Necromancy to shine is alongside Wheel of Fortune, Memory Jar, Windfall, et al, as others have already said.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Name is also really lame and does not fit the mechanics of the card at all flavorfully.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
and i am the minority of i like this card
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
I would be all.over.that. It's a card that rewards you for doing something that you actually normally do in a game of Magic. It's not niche and should create benefits for you right away. I'd probably push the cost downwards a bit more but it's a much more solid card than what we got.
RoN is frustratingly weak in a deck that's not dedicated to using it and if you are building your deck around RoN you're going to have an awful time. It's not your general so you're going to have to tutor it out and even then it probably won't be on the board long enough for you to extract a lot of card advantage from it.
Come to think of it this card would've been a lot more interesting as a legendary creature.
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Ancient does not attract much attention from what I have seen, which is also important. Discard can get a person killed much more quickly in a game of EDH where I play, and this card is probably a decent-sized removal magnet.
So you end up with 7 cards in hand, and your opponents end up with nothing.
Seems like an interaction that works well to me.
Gosh, I was really pulling for Blood in the Watering Can, though. It would've been easy to enable with some painlands/City of Brass in your mana base.
stuff
Wheel and Windfall effects of course get special mention, as well as Black Myojin and Sire of Insanity.
I could see someone running a dirty Grixis shell around this card- maybe Crosis or Sedris as general.
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http://nyxathidgoestotown.wordpress.com/
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Nicol Bolas and Quicksilver Dagger type effects.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!