I recently aquired a Mox Diamond and a Lotus Bloom. My questions are these and cards alike viable in EDH and if so what kind of build do you see them in?
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I've considered lotus bloom before, and decided against it because how slow it is past the earlier turns. I just feel like you want to have minimal dead draws in edh, and bloom seems like one of those cards.
I've never played with mox diamond, but it seems like the ramp by 1 does not justify the card disadvantage.. that is just my opinion, depends on your build, I just play mostly decks that depend on attrition, so.
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Mox Diamond is fantastic in any deck that reliably draws lots of cards. I run it in Edric and it is great there, and I have seen it used to good effect in decks that play lots of Howling Mine or Wheel of Fortune effects. But I wouldn't use it in a "normal" deck.
Lotus Bloom I have never seen played, although I could see it being fun and useful in a Jhoira deck. Outside of that I don't think the delay is worth the payoff, unless you are working towards a specific combo or have a way to cheat it into play.
This. I run it it my Rith build, and love the (slight) ramp + color fixing. If you're like me, and tend to run slightly more lands than needed, I'd say it's a pretty solid option for a 3 or 5 color deck.
I also run Lotus Bloom in my Sen Triplets deck. It interacts very well with Salvaging Station and Auriok Salvagers. It's not as broken as what you saw in Modern Sunrise combo decks, but it is solid.
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0-drop artifact ramp is good for decks that 1. Don't have access to other forms of ramp (like green); 2. Need to be fast (usually combo decks); and 3. Can draw a lot (mostly to replace cards).
Izzet tends to like the artifact ramp because blue and red cannot ramp (or stay very consistent mana-wise) any other way. I run Chrome Mox, Mox Opal, and Mana Crypt in Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind for all of the above reasons. Plus, I can -0 Tezzeret, the Seeker for them, which I really like doing. I'm not really a fan of Mox Diamond.because of the card disadvantage and the fact that I don't run a Crucible of Worlds.
If you can turn the mana into card draw, or your deck has an aggressive strategy that doesn't require lot of mana, Mox Diamond is awesome. Chrome Mox can also be good but is even more costly to play.
Most of the times I've seen Lotus Bloom played outside of a dedicated storm deck, it was just bad.
I also run Lotus Bloom in my Sen Triplets deck. It interacts very well with Salvaging Station and Auriok Salvagers. It's not as broken as what you saw in Modern Sunrise combo decks, but it is solid.
This actually seems awful with Auriok Salvagers. You'd have to re-suspend it each time.
Lotus Bloom can also be useful with things like Sun Titan, Salvaging Station, or Open the Vaults, since you don't have to wait for the three suspended turns. Admittedly, those are 6-drops, but the earliest you'd get Lotus Bloom normally is T4 anyway.
It also works with low-cost Cascade spells, like Ardent Plea or Shardless Agent, or putting permanents directly into play (Show and Tell, Eureka, blue Braids, Arcum, Master Transmuter, etc.)
Mox Opal may be the best generally useful Mox/Lotus for the format, since it doesn't offer any card disadvantage, although the other legal Moxen/Lotus (and similar cards, like Jeweled Amulet) can certainly have their uses in the proper deck.
Mox Opal may be the best generally useful Mox/Lotus for the format, since it doesn't offer any card disadvantage, although the other legal Moxen/Lotus (and similar cards, like Jeweled Amulet) can certainly have their uses in the proper deck.
Mox Opal may not have a card disadvantage cost, but it's also rarely going to be live on turns 1-2 (where the advantage of the moxen is most prominent). I also not sure about it being so generally useful. Some of the decks I play Mox Diamond in might not attain metalcraft for the entire duration of an EDH game.
The important thing is that each of the moxen has a cost that some decks can handle easily and others couldn't justify. This cost is different for each mox.
Mox Opal may not have a card disadvantage cost, but it's also rarely going to be live on turns 1-2 (where the advantage of the moxen is most prominent). I also not sure about it being so generally useful. Some of the decks I play Mox Diamond in might not attain metalcraft for the entire duration of an EDH game.
Run artifact lands. Otherwise, don't run metalcraft...
0-drop artifact ramp is good for decks that 1. Don't have access to other forms of ramp (like green); 2. Need to be fast (usually combo decks); and 3. Can draw a lot (mostly to replace cards).
Izzet tends to like the artifact ramp because blue and red cannot ramp (or stay very consistent mana-wise) any other way. I run Chrome Mox, Mox Opal, and Mana Crypt in Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind for all of the above reasons. Plus, I can -0 Tezzeret, the Seeker for them, which I really like doing. I'm not really a fan of Mox Diamond.because of the card disadvantage and the fact that I don't run a Crucible of Worlds.
Pretty much this. But note that if you run the moxes they aren't just helpful early game in decks like this. They are also useful later on when you need to dump multiple mana sources into play in one turn to keep the combo going. Generally useful with Draw 7 effects and Time Walk abilities.
If it was all about early tempo I wouldn't run them in a multiplayer game because you or the moxes will get hated away. It's the ability for explosive turns later that makes them very worthwhile so long as the deck you are playing can exploit them.
I've been using Chrome Mox in Exava/Lyzolda and it's usually worth it for the acceleration. Chrome Mox+Land into Turn 1 Bob, into turn 2 Hypnotic Specter or Hymn to Tourach + creature is pretty awesome, and happens quite often.
I respect your opinion, but completely disagree. There have been numerous times when dropping an artifact land has yielded metalcraft when I had no other way of getting it. For 2 colours, you can run 3 (2 coloured ones and Darksteel Citadel), which means that your land-drop is actively contributing towards one of your tactics. The land-drop, then, isn't a waste (like dropping a basic kind of is). So running some is better than running none, if metalcraft is something that needs to happen in the deck.
I'll say no more on this subject, though, lest the thread digress too far beyond it's original intent, which is to discuss moxen and low-drop artifact ramp.
...
This actually seems awful with Auriok Salvagers. You'd have to re-suspend it each time.
It's really not. Think of it as being similar to the ramping effect of Coalition Relic (using the charge counter and the regular tap). You can't use it every turn, but it can help you in sporadic bursts to do great things.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
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they pick up more in value/use in duel commander, losing a card in hand hurts much less when the difference between your opponents is 1 and not 3 or more.
It's not too essential to have Mox Opal live turn 1. And if you're playing a deck where you're considering Mox Opal, you probably already have enough artifacts that you can consistently get it live turn 2 or 3.
The moxen shine most in decks that like to more than they should on turn 1 or draw their entire deck in one go. Other than that they are pretty much an artifact land with the downside of discarding a land for diamond or imprinting a card for chrome. I wouldn't play them unless you are trying to pull off some combo shenanigans or simply need more artifacts for mechanics like affinity or metalcraft.
Discard Lotus Bloom with Trading Post and recur it with Salvaging Station. Am I not durdely enough for the durdle club? I run Mox Diamond in my artifact synergy deck as well. Like others have said, these cards are good in decks that are suited for them. I've tried them before in other decks and there were not as great.
chrome mox is a card that is almost always good(with the exception of when you only have chrome mox or a key piece of your deck that you don't want to exile) at any time, even if you just imprint a land.
chrome mox is a card that is almost always good(with the exception of when you only have chrome mox or a key piece of your deck that you don't want to exile) at any time, even if you just imprint a land.
whoops, should have read the card, i only remembered the imprint a card part and add mana of the imprinted card's color to your mana pool.
still great though
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I've never played with mox diamond, but it seems like the ramp by 1 does not justify the card disadvantage.. that is just my opinion, depends on your build, I just play mostly decks that depend on attrition, so.
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Lotus Bloom I have never seen played, although I could see it being fun and useful in a Jhoira deck. Outside of that I don't think the delay is worth the payoff, unless you are working towards a specific combo or have a way to cheat it into play.
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This. I run it it my Rith build, and love the (slight) ramp + color fixing. If you're like me, and tend to run slightly more lands than needed, I'd say it's a pretty solid option for a 3 or 5 color deck.
I also run Lotus Bloom in my Sen Triplets deck. It interacts very well with Salvaging Station and Auriok Salvagers. It's not as broken as what you saw in Modern Sunrise combo decks, but it is solid.
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Izzet tends to like the artifact ramp because blue and red cannot ramp (or stay very consistent mana-wise) any other way. I run Chrome Mox, Mox Opal, and Mana Crypt in Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind for all of the above reasons. Plus, I can -0 Tezzeret, the Seeker for them, which I really like doing. I'm not really a fan of Mox Diamond.because of the card disadvantage and the fact that I don't run a Crucible of Worlds.
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Most of the times I've seen Lotus Bloom played outside of a dedicated storm deck, it was just bad.
This actually seems awful with Auriok Salvagers. You'd have to re-suspend it each time.
It also works with low-cost Cascade spells, like Ardent Plea or Shardless Agent, or putting permanents directly into play (Show and Tell, Eureka, blue Braids, Arcum, Master Transmuter, etc.)
Mox Opal may be the best generally useful Mox/Lotus for the format, since it doesn't offer any card disadvantage, although the other legal Moxen/Lotus (and similar cards, like Jeweled Amulet) can certainly have their uses in the proper deck.
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Mox Opal may not have a card disadvantage cost, but it's also rarely going to be live on turns 1-2 (where the advantage of the moxen is most prominent). I also not sure about it being so generally useful. Some of the decks I play Mox Diamond in might not attain metalcraft for the entire duration of an EDH game.
The important thing is that each of the moxen has a cost that some decks can handle easily and others couldn't justify. This cost is different for each mox.
Run artifact lands. Otherwise, don't run metalcraft...
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Pretty much this. But note that if you run the moxes they aren't just helpful early game in decks like this. They are also useful later on when you need to dump multiple mana sources into play in one turn to keep the combo going. Generally useful with Draw 7 effects and Time Walk abilities.
If it was all about early tempo I wouldn't run them in a multiplayer game because you or the moxes will get hated away. It's the ability for explosive turns later that makes them very worthwhile so long as the deck you are playing can exploit them.
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This works in a 60 card, 4 of format.
Not so much in singleton.
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I've seen Lotus Bloom be really strong with white decks running the aforementioned recursion like Auriok Salvagers (or Sun Titan).
I respect your opinion, but completely disagree. There have been numerous times when dropping an artifact land has yielded metalcraft when I had no other way of getting it. For 2 colours, you can run 3 (2 coloured ones and Darksteel Citadel), which means that your land-drop is actively contributing towards one of your tactics. The land-drop, then, isn't a waste (like dropping a basic kind of is). So running some is better than running none, if metalcraft is something that needs to happen in the deck.
I'll say no more on this subject, though, lest the thread digress too far beyond it's original intent, which is to discuss moxen and low-drop artifact ramp.
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It's really not. Think of it as being similar to the ramping effect of Coalition Relic (using the charge counter and the regular tap). You can't use it every turn, but it can help you in sporadic bursts to do great things.
—Lim-Dul, the Necromancer
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they pick up more in value/use in duel commander, losing a card in hand hurts much less when the difference between your opponents is 1 and not 3 or more.
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It's not too essential to have Mox Opal live turn 1. And if you're playing a deck where you're considering Mox Opal, you probably already have enough artifacts that you can consistently get it live turn 2 or 3.
Now Chrome Mox I'm not sure about.
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chrome mox is a card that is almost always good(with the exception of when you only have chrome mox or a key piece of your deck that you don't want to exile) at any time, even if you just imprint a land.
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You can't imprint a land.
whoops, should have read the card, i only remembered the imprint a card part and add mana of the imprinted card's color to your mana pool.
still great though
Thanks Argentleman;)
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